Official Religious Debate Thread

[Smegma]

Any question can be answer by saying "God did it, don't ask me how he did it, because I'll never understand

I never say this, however.

[N. Escalona]

Ask a three year old why his parents won't let him play in the street.

Three year old children are not incapable of comprehending that you can get hurt by a car.

Stop attacking the minutiae of his analogy, do you understand the point he's trying to make? Y/N

Show a caveman a computer and ask him to explain how it works (not what it does; why it does).  What's he going to say?

See the irony here?

(He would say magic... God.)

Again, missing the point completely because you decided to attack his analogy.

Let me say it again law, Omnipotence is capacity to do everything, including those crazy ones and meaningless ones. If not, then it's not omnipotent.

Well, have fun with that. I mean, if you want to redefine omnipotence, go ahead. I think it's a completely useless definition, because if you accept it then you must conclude that omnipotence is inherently impossible.

Do you agree, if I wrote a book, and you asked me about it, I would be able to tell you everything about that book. And if you spread that information precisely the way it was told, then there is only going to be, well one description of that book.

Lets think backwards. There was a time when people believed crazy things that are wrong and supposedly God created. And there are a lot of these crazy crap. If God actually told them everything, then there wouldn't be so many version of stuff.

But unfortunately, people are f'ing morons. If we weren't (perfect world), no one would ever sin and there would, I think, be no need for the Bible in the first place. We are also incapable of understanding God, so it's not like he can just tell us all what's up and then we get it.

Ask a 3yo...

I think things you don't know is because you simply can't, because it does not exist. Not because is beyond one's comprehension.

But you made that up. I mean, your assertion is no more valid than his.

[Smegma]

Well, have fun with that. I mean, if you want to redefine omnipotence, go ahead. I think it's a completely useless definition, because if you accept it then you must conclude that omnipotence is inherently impossible.

Not for my God.

[GSx_Major]

Stop attacking the minutiae of his analogy, do you understand the point he's trying to make? Y/N

The point, of course. The analogy, however... It isn't doing its job very well.

Again, missing the point completely because you decided to attack his analogy.

Again, it wasn't a reply, it was a comment on the quality of the comparison.

I never tried to make it look like anything else.

Well, have fun with that. I mean, if you want to redefine omnipotence, go ahead. I think it's a completely useless definition, because if you accept it then you must conclude that omnipotence is inherently impossible.

In practice, omnipotence already is (regardless of wheter it includes apparently self contradictory things). The term is useless.

We are also incapable of understanding God, so it's not like he can just tell us all what's up and then we get it.

Because he wanted it that way.

[excruciator]

Let me say it again law, Omnipotence is capacity to do everything, including those crazy ones and meaningless ones. If not, then it's not omnipotent.

Well, have fun with that. I mean, if you want to redefine omnipotence, go ahead. I think it's a completely useless definition, because if you accept it then you must conclude that omnipotence is inherently impossible.

Yes. Omnipotence is not possible. Another lie from god or it's followers.

Do you agree, if I wrote a book, and you asked me about it, I would be able to tell you everything about that book. And if you spread that information precisely the way it was told, then there is only going to be, well one description of that book.

Lets think backwards. There was a time when people believed crazy things that are wrong and supposedly God created. And there are a lot of these crazy crap. If God actually told them everything, then there wouldn't be so many version of stuff.

But unfortunately, people are f'ing morons. If we weren't (perfect world), no one would ever sin and there would, I think, be no need for the Bible in the first place. We are also incapable of understanding God, so it's not like he can just tell us all what's up and then we get it.

Then why lie? Then how can we trust anything that was supposed said by God or church again?

Also you people who believe in God have to hold one assumption into account. That we(human) are special.
But the fact is, we are not that special.

A even a cell of an earthworm is more complicated than anything we've built.

Ask a 3yo...

I think things you don't know is because you simply can't, because it does not exist. Not because is beyond one's comprehension.

But you made that up. I mean, your assertion is no more valid than his.

But it's not.

One example of that would be to know both the position of an electron and it velocity at an particular moment. Is not that we cannot know the position, is that there simply isn't one.

I think Niels Bohr said it.(or a variation of what I wrote)

[N. Escalona]

@GSx:
re analogy: okay.

re omnipotence: well ur rong. either way it's semantics alone.

re understanding: if we understood God better, faith would be less important. God doesn't make himself obvious because there needs to be faith.

But unfortunately, people are f'ing morons. If we weren't (perfect world), no one would ever sin and there would, I think, be no need for the Bible in the first place. We are also incapable of understanding God, so it's not like he can just tell us all what's up and then we get it.

Then why lie? Then how can we trust anything that was supposed said by God or church again?

I'm not sure what you mean.

Also you people who believe in God have to hold one assumption into account. That we(human) are special.
But the fact is, we are not that special.

A even a cell of an earthworm is more complicated than anything we've built.

True. But God made us in his image: we are special. That's not to say God did not create, perhaps, aliens equal to us in dignity. But among terrestrial creatures, we were clearly created with dominion over the world. That doesn't mean that anything we can manufacture even approaches the greatness of creation.

I think things you don't know is because you simply can't, because it does not exist. Not because is beyond one's comprehension.

But you made that up. I mean, your assertion is no more valid than his.

But it's not.

One example of that would be to know both the position of an electron and it velocity at an particular moment. Is not that we cannot know the position, is that there simply isn't one.

I think Niels Bohr said it.(or a variation of what I wrote)

You can give an example of a situation where things we don't know don't exist. But I can turn around and give you an example of a situation where things we don't know do exist. Either way we're not really getting anywhere.

[jettlarue]

But unfortunately, people are f'ing morons. If we weren't (perfect world), no one would ever sin and there would, I think, be no need for the Bible in the first place. We are also incapable of understanding God, so it's not like he can just tell us all what's up and then we get it.

In a world with no sin, earth would be overpopulated and we would all die, which wouldn't be that bad, except for the large amounts of famine and suffering on earth comparable to hell. The whole no kill anything prevents evolution of race and intelligence by allowing all the dumb fucks along with all the smart fucks to have the same chance at living. If not we would be expanding the real mission of our race: to conquer. Nothing more than a bacteria with logic so flawed it invents religion for reasoning to overpopulate the world. Again, fucking bacteria, nothing more nothing less.

[excruciator]

No one has seen God. So you cannot be sure that he looks like a human. Also, how would you explain Gods in polytheism. Surely the mighty beetle would be on equal ground with us also.

I'm saying is whatever we did is still not more amazing than a freaking cell. And certainly we were not created to DOMINATE the world. See that what I'm saying, people think that we are so special...

And about the first point, church claimed many bulls**t to be absolutely true, created by God etc etc.. Which turn out to be a lie. So what hold them back from tell us another? What to say whatever they say right now isn't a lie?

for the 3rd point.
Yo missing the point. The thing is, if the thing we don't know does exist, would be explainable and understood, simply because something exist is "influenced" by causality therefore it can be known. But things don't exist cannot be understood, simply because they, well don't exist. SO therefore it cannot be explained or studied directly or indirectly.

[GSx_Major]

re omnipotence: well ur rong.

Technically yes, but really no.

if we understood God better, faith would be less important.

Which is how he wants it.

we were clearly created with dominion over the world.

Just absurd. Even if you think so, it's not the case now. So we lost it, or what? And is that your moral justification of what we do to... Well, everything?

No one has seen God. So you cannot be sure that he looks like a human.

Plenty of people have seen God, often in toast. As for how he looks, if man is in his image but chimps aren't, we can safely assume God is tall, not too hairy and has abnormaly large genitalia.

[N. Escalona]

In a world with no sin, earth would be overpopulated and we would all die, which wouldn't be that bad, except for the large amounts of famine and suffering on earth comparable to hell. The whole no kill anything prevents evolution of race and intelligence by allowing all the dumb fucks along with all the smart fucks to have the same chance at living. If not we would be expanding the real mission of our race: to conquer. Nothing more than a bacteria with logic so flawed it invents religion for reasoning to overpopulate the world. Again, fucking bacteria, nothing more nothing less.

In a world with no sin, none of us would ever die. We would not run out of resources. This probably means reproduction would cease, but that's just a guess I'm throwing out there.

Are you honestly suggesting we encourage the killing of the less intelligent members of our society? Did I seriously just hear that?

No one has seen God. So you cannot be sure that he looks like a human. Also, how would you explain Gods in polytheism. Surely the mighty beetle would be on equal ground with us also.

I did not mean that we are created in God's physical image. God has no inherent physical image; he can take on whatever form he wishes. I meant we are created in his spiritual image.

I'm saying is whatever we did is still not more amazing than a freaking cell. And certainly we were not created to DOMINATE the world. See that what I'm saying, people think that we are so special...

We were certainly created to dominate the world. "And he said: Let us make man to our image and likeness: and let him have dominion over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and the beasts, and the whole earth, and every creeping creature that moveth upon the earth." (Genesis 1:26) We are special.

And about the first point, church claimed many bulls**t to be absolutely true, created by God etc etc.. Which turn out to be a lie. So what hold them back from tell us another? What to say whatever they say right now isn't a lie?

Can you give some examples? What BS has the Church stated?

for the 3rd point.
Yo missing the point. The thing is, if the thing we don't know does exist, would be explainable and understood, simply because something exist is "influenced" by causality therefore it can be known. But things don't exist cannot be understood, simply because they, well don't exist. SO therefore it cannot be explained or studied directly or indirectly.

It is possible for things to exist that we cannot understand. For example, suppose there exist 4-dimensional creatures. We could not understand them.

if we understood God better, faith would be less important.

Which is how he wants it.

If God wanted faith to be less important, he would have made faith less important. He's God, with power over creation. Aside from that, where'd you pull that from? Since when has God not wanted faith to be important for us?

we were clearly created with dominion over the world.

Just absurd. Even if you think so, it's not the case now. So we lost it, or what? And is that your moral justification of what we do to... Well, everything?

Man has always had and will always have dominion over the earth. We were created with this dominion and we have it today. This doesn't mean that nature can't "revolt" against us, of course, that happens constantly. It's not an issue of how much physical power we really have, it's a question of whether the world is our responsibility or not. In other words, do we have the right to exploit the earth for our own gain? Yes, but because we are stewards of the earth, we also have a responsibility to maintain the earth. Either way we do indeed have moral authority and responsibility over the earth and all other animals.

[excruciator]

No one has seen God. So you cannot be sure that he looks like a human. Also, how would you explain Gods in polytheism. Surely the mighty beetle would be on equal ground with us also.

I did not mean that we are created in God's physical image. God has no inherent physical image; he can take on whatever form he wishes. I meant we are created in his spiritual image.

Spiritual image? then that is even less real than physical image. I doubt that we've(or we'll) ever seen(see) that.
+ what distinguishes between an vision of God and a vision of a common man talking sense? Very little. Therefore even if you've had a vision, it could have not been God.

I'm saying is whatever we did is still not more amazing than a freaking cell. And certainly we were not created to DOMINATE the world. See that what I'm saying, people think that we are so special...

We were certainly created to dominate the world. "And he said: Let us make man to our image and likeness: and let him have dominion over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and the beasts, and the whole earth, and every creeping creature that moveth upon the earth." (Genesis 1:26) We are special.

You just admitted on a previous point that we are dumb and this is not a perfect world therefore the word of God has most likely already been mangled beyond recognition(I added the last part). So I don't think the bible is reliable.

Obviously, we all want ourselves to be special, I'm sure your parent's have told you that everyday in the past. So this could be written by anyone.

for the 3rd point.
Yo missing the point. The thing is, if the thing we don't know does exist, would be explainable and understood, simply because something exist is "influenced" by causality therefore it can be known. But things don't exist cannot be understood, simply because they, well don't exist. SO therefore it cannot be explained or studied directly or indirectly.

It is possible for things to exist that we cannot understand. For example, suppose there exist 4-dimensional creatures. We could not understand them.

I don't think your example is really valid.
You can let your imagination go wild you can still not make fictional stuff into reality. You example is like saying, I know Santa, so it must exist, yet we don't know it.

[GSx_Major]

I meant we are created in his spiritual image.

Care to mention any specific similarities?

(Genesis 1:26) We are special.

So your non literal interpretation of Genesis is actually... A literal interpretation. That's just great.

Anyway, we in no way dominate the world. It's a lot bigger than you seem to think.

Since when has God not wanted faith to be important for us?

With your own logic, the closer you get to God and the more you understand him the less faith there is in the mix.

Man has always had and will always have dominion over the earth. We were created with this dominion and we have it today.

I'd like to hear more about your dominion over fish.

[jettlarue]

In a world with no sin, earth would be overpopulated and we would all die, which wouldn't be that bad, except for the large amounts of famine and suffering on earth comparable to hell. The whole no kill anything prevents evolution of race and intelligence by allowing all the dumb f**ks along with all the smart f**ks to have the same chance at living. If not we would be expanding the real mission of our race: to conquer. Nothing more than a bacteria with logic so flawed it invents religion for reasoning to overpopulate the world. Again, f**king bacteria, nothing more nothing less.

In a world with no sin, none of us would ever die. We would not run out of resources. This probably means reproduction would cease, but that's just a guess I'm throwing out there.

Are you honestly suggesting we encourage the killing of the less intelligent members of our society? Did I seriously just hear that?

For the first part:

• If this is your opinion on a perfect world: Cool it's an opinion.
• If your saying this is how the world would be without sin: Arguing people would not die if there was no sin is silly and irrelevant, a page or two ago you were talking about being logical. Same goes for resources and sexually we are still expected to populate the earth, so I doubt that would stop a bunch of horny Catholics from marrying and f**king.

For the second part: In a way yes, but not specifically. Right now people who are more intelligent and are not "domesticated" and put into jails or prisons for operating outside of the norm which society accepts, thus giving them a smaller chance of reproducing. I am not by any means restricting the people who go into jails or prisons to be only of intelligent nature, because that clearly is not the case. But the freedom fighters, free thought, free f**king life, are misconstrued  into these society killing hate machines. In all reality, intelligence gives you all the more reason to realise how much of the world is deception and bulls**t, and isolates you from the brainwashed others; whether is be self, material, or group influencing this segregation I am unsure.

Take for example, someone who kills others who interfere with his product distribution. Therefore increasing his overall budget. This only works because people are are not willing to kill this man without the same incentive as him:money. People do not care about others. They care about how others can help them.

Now there may be a group of people who say, hey I'm sick of buying from a monopoly, lets fix this s**t. This will be seen as reckless and dumb by the people who work under this monarch, although their view is biased. The other consumers have no problem if the business takes out these "fools" (claimed by the only company they know/familiar with). Although whether or not these people succeed in taking down the monopoly has no affect, they will be prosecuted one way or another. Nobody cares. Big business does not want people to think outside the box, think for themselves; intelligence. They want dumb f**ks who will not cause harm and buy their products without question. Throughout history with this approach (although obviously not limited to this buy/sell scenario) people who use their logic/reasoning skills to try to make community/society better, are actually prosecuted for their work, causing over time to reduce the human gene(through natural selection) to give machine order following f**ks the greater amount of population, which give them the best chance to survive, but not the best life that could be possible but isn't because of ignorance. Domesticated monkeys.

[STM1993]

Regarding a world without sin:
Sin is an act against God. Ever since God created the inhabitants of the universe and to give them free-will, so was sin indirectly created, because the inhabitants could choose whether to obey God, or to rebel against God (sinning).

Now, remember Adam and Eve? Yep, the first humans were commanded by God not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Eve was tempted by the serpent to eat from that Tree. Eve followed her temptation, eating the fruit from that Tree and also gave Adam one of the fruit. In doing so, both of them have sinned since they have disobeyed God's command. Because of this, humans know both good and evil, but they have also become prone to sin, and this would spread over all the way to our current generation. And God threw us out of the Garden of Eden.


No one can really answer how the world would be like without sin, it's more of an opinion, but anyway:

Most probably, we'd all be in the Garden of Eden to act as people looking after the animals, plants etc. Our bodies are not immortal, so we would all die eventually, but our souls would still live on and just enter Heaven where God resides. There would be no need for a Hell. As for reproduction, it would always happen, one way or another, so that we can continue to look after the garden. Yep, that means there would be more and more people in Heaven.

Now it's just a dream, we sinned, we're here, we screwed up the original plan (which God knows would fail), we're doomed to Hell, so God just makes another plan to save us... if we obey him.



Looking back at all these, it seems to be that everything in the religion makes sense, but the part about God himself goes in paradoxes and contradictions which can't seem to be explained without denying the religion altogether.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

Our bodies are not immortal, so we would all die eventually

The Bible is pretty clear that death is only in the world because of the original sin.

Looking back at all these, it seems to be that everything in the religion makes sense, but the part about God himself goes in paradoxes and contradictions which can't seem to be explained without denying the religion altogether.

Paradoxes and contradictions?

[excruciator]

Ok explain this to me.
If we were always prayed to the same God. How come the sign of God of today is different then what it was before?
How come we were wrong in the past?

Who set these things? Can you trust people who declare what is the sign of God or not? Are these visions really reliable? Or actually are visions realiable at all?

Our bodies are not immortal, so we would all die eventually

The Bible is pretty clear that death is only in the world because of the original sin.

Then how come animals die, did they have sinned too?

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

Ok explain this to me.
If we were always prayed to the same God. How come the sign of God of today is different then what it was before?

What do you mean, the "sign" of God?

Our bodies are not immortal, so we would all die eventually

The Bible is pretty clear that death is only in the world because of the original sin.

Then how come animals die, did they have sinned too?

EVERYTHING dies because of the original sin.  In other words, even if you lived a perfect life now, you'd still die.

[Smegma]

I thought people made a distinction between spiritual death/physical death?

[excruciator]

Ok explain this to me.
If we were always prayed to the same God. How come the sign of God of today is different then what it was before?

What do you mean, the "sign" of God?

Our bodies are not immortal, so we would all die eventually

The Bible is pretty clear that death is only in the world because of the original sin.

Then how come animals die, did they have sinned too?

EVERYTHING dies because of the original sin.  In other words, even if you lived a perfect life now, you'd still die.

But original sin is eating the apple, and it was done by a human.
So how come animals get involved too?

Snake got involved sure, but why bring all the other animals into it.

Sign of God...comet, asteroid, a heavy rain, a period with no rain, eclipse, aurora, animal attacking village, earthquake, vulcano...etc..etc..

[N. Escalona]

MEGA MONSTER COMBO POST
because i had things to do over the weekend
sorry for the wall of text

I did not mean that we are created in God's physical image. God has no inherent physical image; he can take on whatever form he wishes. I meant we are created in his spiritual image.

Spiritual image? then that is even less real than physical image. I doubt that we've(or we'll) ever seen(see) that.
+ what distinguishes between an vision of God and a vision of a common man talking sense? Very little. Therefore even if you've had a vision, it could have not been God.

The spiritual world is just as real as the physical world. Not being able to see spiritual things is not relevant, because sight is a physical phenomenon. But supernatural visions may be distinguished from natural visions. I personally am not sure how, but the simple physical resemblance of any divine form to an earthly form does not impede the recognition of the divine.

We were certainly created to dominate the world. "And he said: Let us make man to our image and likeness: and let him have dominion over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and the beasts, and the whole earth, and every creeping creature that moveth upon the earth." (Genesis 1:26) We are special.

You just admitted on a previous point that we are dumb and this is not a perfect world therefore the word of God has most likely already been mangled beyond recognition(I added the last part). So I don't think the bible is reliable.

It is possible for things to exist that we cannot understand. For example, suppose there exist 4-dimensional creatures. We could not understand them.

I don't think your example is really valid.
You can let your imagination go wild you can still not make fictional stuff into reality. You example is like saying, I know Santa, so it must exist, yet we don't know it.
[/quote]You say that 4-dimensional creatures do not exist, but I say you have no evidence to suggest that. At the same time I don't have any evidence to suggest they do exist. it's an open question, though certainly not one we need to spend much energy in contemplation.

How about this example then: I do not think it too far off to say that we will never understand precisely how the flap of a butterfly’s wings in Brazil can set off a tornado in Texas.

I meant we are created in his spiritual image.

Care to mention any specific similarities?

We are imbued with souls, capable of understanding and free will.

(Genesis 1:26) We are special.

So your non literal interpretation of Genesis is actually... A literal interpretation. That's just great.

Anyway, we in no way dominate the world. It's a lot bigger than you seem to think.

It's not a question of extremes: literal or nonliteral. Some portions of Genesis are intended to be taken literally, some to be taken figuratively. Is this so hard to comprehend? It's a pretty basic inference that if we are created in the image of God, then we are special.

We do have dominion over the world: moral dominion, not necessarily physical domination, as I mentioned. I guess a turn to the OED would be appropriate: "The power or right of governing and controlling; sovereign authority; lordship, sovereignty; rule, sway; control, influence."

Since when has God not wanted faith to be important for us?

With your own logic, the closer you get to God and the more you understand him the less faith there is in the mix.

I suppose "understanding" is a poor word here. The dichotomy I referred to earlier was between having faith in God and having evidence of God, yes? Too much evidence precludes faith, but after one already believes in God (through faith) then understanding of God and faith in God are both to be encouraged.

Man has always had and will always have dominion over the earth. We were created with this dominion and we have it today.

I'd like to hear more about your dominion over fish.

(?) Well, we have the right to kill as many fish as we need, and as many as we want as long as we are not grievously damaging their populations (which in many cases we have done and are doing). Furthermore we have enormous control over fish, especially those found near the surface. Altogether I'd say we've got pretty good dominion over fish.

For the first part:

• If this is your opinion on a perfect world: Cool it's an opinion.

[/list

It also happens to be Biblically-informed fact. I'm not trying to beat you over the head with this but I believe what I believe.

• If your saying this is how the world would be without sin: Arguing people would not die if there was no sin is silly and irrelevant, a page or two ago you were talking about being logical. Same goes for resources and sexually we are still expected to populate the earth, so I doubt that would stop a bunch of horny Catholics from marrying and f**king.

No, what I'm saying is that reproduction would (probably) stop happening, but sexuality would continue. But I'm kind of making that up as I go along - I have a certain fact before me (there was no death before sin) and these are my tentative conclusions of what follows from that fact. How is this illogical? I'm trying to make sense, anyway.

For the second part: In a way yes, but not specifically. Right now people who are more intelligent and are not "domesticated" and put into jails or prisons for operating outside of the norm which society accepts, thus giving them a smaller chance of reproducing. I am not by any means restricting the people who go into jails or prisons to be only of intelligent nature, because that clearly is not the case. But the freedom fighters, free thought, free f**king life, are misconstrued  into these society killing hate machines. In all reality, intelligence gives you all the more reason to realise how much of the world is deception and bulls**t, and isolates you from the brainwashed others; whether is be self, material, or group influencing this segregation I am unsure.

Take for example, someone who kills others who interfere with his product distribution. Therefore increasing his overall budget. This only works because people are are not willing to kill this man without the same incentive as him:money. People do not care about others. They care about how others can help them.

Now there may be a group of people who say, hey I'm sick of buying from a monopoly, lets fix this s**t. This will be seen as reckless and dumb by the people who work under this monarch, although their view is biased. The other consumers have no problem if the business takes out these "fools" (claimed by the only company they know/familiar with). Although whether or not these people succeed in taking down the monopoly has no affect, they will be prosecuted one way or another. Nobody cares. Big business does not want people to think outside the box, think for themselves; intelligence. They want dumb f**ks who will not cause harm and buy their products without question. Throughout history with this approach (although obviously not limited to this buy/sell scenario) people who use their logic/reasoning skills to try to make community/society better, are actually prosecuted for their work, causing over time to reduce the human gene(through natural selection) to give machine order following f**ks the greater amount of population, which give them the best chance to survive, but not the best life that could be possible but isn't because of ignorance. Domesticated monkeys.

I don't understand you. What does big business have to do with anything? Yes, people are selfish by nature, but that doesn't mean selfishness is acceptable. Natural selection? I don't understand what this has to do with our topic.

@STM: The Bible is pretty clear that we would not die before sin. This implies our bodies were physically changed by original sin, such that they would deteriorate when they wouldn't before. And also, Eden (the terrestrial paradise) need not be a location, it could simply be a metaphor for a state of the world, I think. But not sure on that one. But humans (both body & soul, not just soul) would never enter heaven, since we would not die.

Also, Hell would definitely still exist - it would remain the place of residence of the fallen angels.

And reproduction could easily cease - God is omnipotent. Conception only occurs when he specifically wills it so.

I thought people made a distinction between spiritual death/physical death?

Yes, and the Bible does too. "Wherefore as by one man sin entered into this world and by sin death; and so death passed upon all men." (Romans 5:12) Here death is contrasted with sin (which is itself spiritual death). "And to Adam he said: Because thou hast hearkened to the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee, that thou shouldst not eat ... In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread till thou return to the earth out of which thou wast taken: for dust thou art, and into dust thou shalt return." (Genesis 3:17,19)

@excruciator: Animals weren't necessarily immortal before the fall of Adam. That's not a concretely-decided question. But if they were, there is no contradiction, because God does whatever he wants.