Official Religious Debate Thread

[AntiHero]

Dose anyone find Scientology a bit strange? Not trying to offend its belief but just asking if anyone else finds it strange?

[excruciator]

Dose anyone find Scientology a bit strange? Not trying to offend its belief but just asking if anyone else finds it strange?

I find all religion strange.

But I guess when you believe it, it will not be strange.

[Lord Frunkamunch]

Dose anyone find Scientology a bit strange? Not trying to offend its belief but just asking if anyone else finds it strange?

Everyone does.

[GSx_Major]

Pfft, lighting up and watching interviews with Hubbard is a guaranteed lmao-fest (yes, I might have some issues). There's a local channel here which sends them late at night (3-4 am) when there's not that much else to see. The same channel also sends stuff from a couple other religions, a chess program and something called "The Prostate Brothers", which I hope I never have to watch.

Anyway... People will believe anything for no reason.

[Platehead]

The question is, how does the universe and time exist?

If it were created in the beginning by a big bang, then where did all that energy come from (energy cannot be destroyed or created)? Obviously, either someone who isn't bound by matter, time and space must have caused it to happen, OR the universe has always existed somehow.

If it were created by a divine being, then the creator has to be one who isn't bound to matter, time and space.

I know I'm a little late but yeah everyone seems to agree on that little thing about Scientology

As for what STM said, that's what I'm saying.  Energy cannot be created or destroyed - a divine being not bound by time and space created it, or the universe has existed endlessly.  Or, time doesn't exist.

As for the second option, it still comes back to - if the universe existed since... eternity, it means we're not exactly bound by time any more.  Since we've existed for eternity, why are we suddenly bound by time now?  So there must have been a moment when matter came about inside empty space.  This is strange for matter to just appear.  Time doesn't do anything to create or change.  If something rots, it's the reaction going on inside the object that rots it, not time passing itself.  So over time, there's really no reason for matter to just erupt.  And as said, this would violate Laws of Conservation of Energy and Matter.

[Veritas]

Energy cannot be created or destroyed - a divine being not bound by time and space created it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps

[excruciator]

Energy cannot be created or destroyed - a divine being not bound by time and space created it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps

Sounds like an attempt to make religion undebunkerable.

Again these bulls**t does nothing but add doubt. Not even the most religious guy can testify the existence of God.

It's a dumb argument too.

[w00titsme]

Energy cannot be created or destroyed - a divine being not bound by time and space created it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps

Sounds like an attempt to make religion undebunkerable.

Again these bulls**t does nothing but add doubt. Not even the most religious guy can testify the existence of God.

It's a dumb argument too.

God is actually very likely to be proven only through the clarity and seperation of ignorance. If you see some lady named "Betty Sue" with buck teeth and an inbred son in the cellar claiming that if she kills you it'll be in the name lord, well likely she doesn't have the spirit of god in her. If you see some atheist battling a christian trying to rattle his belief by spitting off countless scientific facts that can be countered just as equally to prove god then the atheist is the one probably with the heart in need of god. It's really boring seeing you all debate on this time/space crap. Once all matter was created by a higher being time began to exist, there was time before that but that's basically looking a time line with no data above. After that this superb being, "God" created all, if you'd just be kind enough to look in the first book of the bible which is the official word of god instead of just pouring out your bullshit trying to be a know it all you might recognize the relevence between the scientific and biblic. To believe in god is not religious, but just faith in the just, it's historic, biblic, and scientific. So there.

[Kerrazyeye]

Its everyones choice whether they believe or not. Why argue? It doesnt change a thing. And if some bible thumping moron tries to save me from hell, ill fucking send him to heaven.

[excruciator]

Just an random comment I found while surfin', thought I should share.
I also thought he made lot of sense.

I was raised by parents who weren't atheists but certainly didn't believe in God. For me, religion was a social thing that filled in Sundays and formed a big part of every day as I went to a heavily religious private school from the age of 7 to 13.

Most people seem to reach a point in their lives where they question whether God exists, but my experience was exactly the opposite. I never beleived in God at any age.

It just seemed to be "a priori" knowledge to me, all this stuff was just stories. I read most of the bible before I was ten and right from the very first page you are presented with events that were obviously not possible.

So I've spent most of my life understanding perfectly why people go to church or send their kids to sunday school. It's a social, community thing. It teaches basically good moral values and the bible contains a ton of really good stories.

But it was a real shock to me around the age of 8 or 9 when I realised that some of the people in church actually believed that the stuff in the Bible was real. I was like 'What? Adam and Eve? Jesus raising the dead? The book of revelations? The story of Samson? You actually take that as the literal truth?"

It was a genuine epiphany for me that people were capable of being much, much more stupid than I had previously thought possible. It took a few more years for me to understand that having faith was more related to a person's emotional needs than their ability to reason.

Now I just group the religious in the same box as people who believe in ghosts, or astrology, that perpetual motion is possible or that tarot readers really can see the future. They have an emotional need that drives their acceptance of kooky ideas and it's got nothing to do with intelligence whatsoever.

The real insight is that our brains are incredibly good at accommodating beliefs that are thoroughly contradictory, with almost no effort at all.

[Kerrazyeye]

Just an random comment I found while surfin', thought I should share.
I also thought he made lot of sense.

Well said on his part...

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

Just an random comment I found while surfin', thought I should share.
I also thought he made lot of sense.

Well said on his part...

More like he got himself into a particular mindset and never looked back.  Isn't that what you guys accuse religious fanatics of doing?

[Kerrazyeye]

Just an random comment I found while surfin', thought I should share.
I also thought he made lot of sense.

Well said on his part...

More like he got himself into a particular mindset and never looked back.  Isn't that what you guys accuse religious fanatics of doing?

Nah, we accuse them of bombing heavily populated areas, starting wars, genocide, picketing soldiers funerals, and other general douchebaggery in the name of the lord. I dont see myself, or the guy in the article as opposites to religious types, we just figure its a bunch of trash, and go on our way.

[AntiHero]

We all have to accept each others religion weather what they belive in So yeah

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

Nah, we accuse them of bombing heavily populated areas, starting wars, genocide, picketing soldiers funerals, and other general douchebaggery in the name of the lord. I dont see myself, or the guy in the article as opposites to religious types, we just figure its a bunch of trash, and go on our way.

That's kind of a ridiculous argument, as religious people can accuse atheists of doing terrible things because they have no moral standards.  Stalin wasn't a Christian, and he killed millions of people.  If you focus on the extremes of either side, of course you're going to pick out bad stuff.  But because you're focusing only on the extremes, it invalidates your argument.

[excruciator]

Just an random comment I found while surfin', thought I should share.
I also thought he made lot of sense.

Well said on his part...

More like he got himself into a particular mindset and never looked back.  Isn't that what you guys accuse religious fanatics of doing?

Well, he could've looked back, and he probably did, because he was living under such religious influence, yet he still maintained his point of view.

Nah, we accuse them of bombing heavily populated areas, starting wars, genocide, picketing soldiers funerals, and other general douchebaggery in the name of the lord. I dont see myself, or the guy in the article as opposites to religious types, we just figure its a bunch of trash, and go on our way.

That's kind of a ridiculous argument, as religious people can accuse atheists of doing terrible things because they have no moral standards.  Stalin wasn't a Christian, and he killed millions of people.  If you focus on the extremes of either side, of course you're going to pick out bad stuff.  But because you're focusing only on the extremes, it invalidates your argument.

There are crazy atheists, and crazy zealots.

Religion teaches morals, which is great.
While atheism do not, but they(atheists) are still constricted by acceptable social norms, and if they do not conform to it, he/she shall be an outcast of that society. We are social creatures, therefore we will try our best to conform and get back to the society. So even if we are not taught morals, we will still acquire those morals because of society.

You can't say that atheist do not have any morals. As long as society exists, there will be morals.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

You can't say that atheist do not have any morals. As long as society exists, there will be morals.

That was kind of my point.  I was using an extreme counter-argument to show the absurdity of the original accusation.

[Kerrazyeye]

You can't say that atheist do not have any morals. As long as society exists, there will be morals.

That was kind of my point.  I was using an extreme counter-argument to show the absurdity of the original accusation.

Wasn't saying all christians are like that, but a minuscule percentage. My point was, all these fanatics are creating hell on earth, for god, for nothing. Its just sad.

[GSx_Major]

What a waste of time 

From http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=34322.msg411319#msg411319

I don't know why I'm responding to this (mainly because i have nothing to do right now) but just to do a bit of fending off of majors attacks on Christianity*...
 1# :there is a certain element of blind faith in all beliefs (including evolution)

2#:Yes Evolution is ALL about spontaneous generation because the fact is that life had to come from some were and "life" is a very complex and intricate which would point to a designer not to random chance*.

3#:your attack on my intelligence by saying "you figured out what a straw man is" is in and of its self a straw man so that was rather stupid to add.

4#: with your last comment you completely disregarded  what I said about god not being made and that He always was.

1+2) Well, grouping evolution with religion is kinda desperate. Life doesn't start at "dog". There's no blind faith in questioning every part of it, examining every evidence and realizing it makes sense.

3) Not a straw man, I in no way distorted your point and went after that. You were throwing around "You straw man!" to avoid actually making a point. I adressed your argument, which was "because", by saying that's not an argument.

4) I tend to say God is beyond himself for every absurdity in christianity. It wasn't about his take on it, it was on the whole problem with God and creating time. Oh, the irony in a religious person not thinking there might be more to things than he sees.

[Platehead]

What did life start at then?  If you try and trace evolution back, to the very beginning - you still gotta explain how the universe came about.  And then after that, how did life come about?

The greater irony I find is in people who don't believe in God trying so very hard to find a scientific explanation to things like this, when they can be simply explained by God.