Official Religious Debate Thread

[excruciator]

I was thinking more that God was bounded by logic, but that is true too.

Logically, this is false.

Explain

Then logic is greater than God.

If God want to make sense then he better follow logic.

[Smegma]

If God want to make sense then he better follow logic.

God doesn't need to.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

If God want to make sense then he better follow logic.

God doesn't need to.

Eh...is it really a "constraint" on God to say he is incapable of doing something illogical? For example, asking God to make a four sided triangle is a meaningless question because of the definition of a triangle.  It's simply nonsensical; that doesn't make God any less omnipotent.

[Smegma]

If God want to make sense then he better follow logic.

God doesn't need to.

Eh...is it really a "constraint" on God to say he is incapable of doing something illogical? For example, asking God to make a four sided triangle is a meaningless question because of the definition of a triangle.  It's simply nonsensical; that doesn't make God any less omnipotent.

Its still a limit.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

If God want to make sense then he better follow logic.

God doesn't need to.

Eh...is it really a "constraint" on God to say he is incapable of doing something illogical? For example, asking God to make a four sided triangle is a meaningless question because of the definition of a triangle.  It's simply nonsensical; that doesn't make God any less omnipotent.

Its still a limit.

Then it's a limit of our perception or understanding, and not a limitation of God.

[Veritas]

I think we said a long time ago that God is not omnipotent, ohhh well.

The problem is when people think God is omnipotent and gives us free will, which pretty well falls apart if you apply some semblance of rational thinking.

The problem is when people think that omnipotent means all-controlling.  Just because you have the power to enforce your will doesn't mean you have to.  Let's say I'm a parent and I tell my kid not to play in the street.  It's still his choice to obey me or not, even if technically I have the power to tie him to a tree or something to force him to do my will.  In the same way, just because God is CAPABLE of doing anything he wants doesn't mean he HAS to do those things.

Oop, sorry, I meant omniscient, not omnipotent.

Of course, I don't think you could really be omnipotent and not omniscient.

[Smegma]

Then it's a limit of our perception or understanding, and not a limitation of God.

Maybe yours.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

The problem is when people think God is omniscient and gives us free will, which pretty well falls apart if you apply some semblance of rational thinking.

Knowing the future is not the same as controlling the future.  For example, let's say I'm holding an egg about 5 feet above a concrete floor.  If I release it, I KNOW that it will break upon hitting the ground.  However, I did not define the physics that caused the egg to break.  Yes, I am influencing future events by dropping the egg instead of setting it on the ground, but once the egg is out of my hand, it's completely out of my control.  And yet, I still know what's going to happen.

Just as we can see the past without controlling the past, God can see the future without controlling the future.  It's an increased perception, not an increased control.

[excruciator]

So God looks but does not do.
So why are we praying to God in hope that it solves our problems? Obviously those people believe that God is about intervention, therefore they pray. So why the contradiction?

I mean the common denominator here is the believers, not God. It seems like the believers makes God, not God makes believers.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

So God looks but does not do.

That's not what I said at all.  I simply said that looking does not imply doing.

[Smegma]

So God looks but does not do.
So why are we praying to God in hope that it solves our problems? Obviously those people believe that God is about intervention, therefore they pray. So why the contradiction?

I mean the common denominator here is the believers, not God. It seems like the believers makes God, not God makes believers.

Prayer is not about granting wishes.

[Veritas]

The problem is when people think God is omniscient and gives us free will, which pretty well falls apart if you apply some semblance of rational thinking.

Knowing the future is not the same as controlling the future.  For example, let's say I'm holding an egg about 5 feet above a concrete floor.  If I release it, I KNOW that it will break upon hitting the ground.

There is a difference between a certainty and a likelihood, and I implore you to learn the difference. This is mainly semantics though.

However, I did not define the physics that caused the egg to break.  Yes, I am influencing future events by dropping the egg instead of setting it on the ground, but once the egg is out of my hand, it's completely out of my control.

This, however, is where your analogy really has no relevance. The egg would be completely out of your control if the egg had the option to do something other than fall to the ground and break - if it has a choice, free will. The egg has no choice in the matter because you've set it out on a course in which it can do nothing else on its own.

Just as we can see the past without controlling the past, God can see the future without controlling the future.

So God set up an initial condition and let the the universe go, knowing exactly who would get into Heaven? Oh hey, that's the exact definition of predestination, an idea that happens to be completely at odds with free will!

[excruciator]

So God looks but does not do.
So why are we praying to God in hope that it solves our problems? Obviously those people believe that God is about intervention, therefore they pray. So why the contradiction?

I mean the common denominator here is the believers, not God. It seems like the believers makes God, not God makes believers.

Prayer is not about granting wishes.

some are, some are not. But if everyone knew that it wouldn't grant wishes, they wouldn't go it at all.

[Smegma]

some are, some are not. But if everyone knew that it wouldn't grant wishes, they wouldn't go it at all.

If you are praying to grant a wish, you are not actually praying.

[excruciator]

some are, some are not. But if everyone knew that it wouldn't grant wishes, they wouldn't go it at all.

If you are praying to grant a wish, you are not actually praying.

I don't pray, but what I do know is sometime people ask the lord a favor and go on their knees.
If that's not praying then..sure. But people do asks favors, why ask when they should know that they ain't gonna get it.

[Smegma]

some are, some are not. But if everyone knew that it wouldn't grant wishes, they wouldn't go it at all.

If you are praying to grant a wish, you are not actually praying.

I don't pray, but what I do know is sometime people ask the lord a favor and go on their knees.
If that's not praying then..sure. But people do asks favors, why ask when they should know that they ain't gonna get it.

This does not pertain to religion's purpose. I guess they just like doing it.

[poodleinacan]

There is no God. God(s) does not existe, there only some thing for hope for some persons...(not me). Religion was first created to control......like christians in the middle-ages....they controled the king.....and they wheren't kind...

In conclusion....religion is just a HOAX.



BELIVE IN YOUR SELF! not in a god.   

[homerofgods]

Hey all you who know that God doesn't exist, There's no point in discussing with these idiots, they have got the facts and everything, but they still believe the bullshit.
well ok, Ill give you something to use your brain on:
1. There are MANY different religions in the world, why should exactly Christianity be true?
2. You think you are christian but you don't even know what Christians really stand for, Christians believe in angels for example, do you believe in angels too, or is it starting to sound like a fairytale allready?
3. Just because it can't be ''prooven'' that there isn't a god, doesn't mean there IS a god, and you have no proof there is a god do you? Something else would be MUCH more likely.

Can I hear some good reason why you believe in god? (not because your mom told you to.) for example: ''God spoke to me'' - Oreally? how, and where's the proof?

But really, THERE IS NO GOD, and that's why religious people makes no sense. They can't explain why we are here, and neither can I, but I don't make things up! Adults with imaginary friends are SCARED of being alone and afraid of the unknown, they need a reason, so they make it up. Where's the fucking proof you faggots

[Chariot]

stereotypical atheist argument

[STM1993]

If God doesn't exist, then I've wasted probably 100 years on Earth for believing in Him. Then again, if God exists, then I've an eternity wasted for not believing in Him. There is no proof of a God, but neither is there a disproof of God. Doesn't matter either way, because if we did know the existence of a God, then what's the point of faith in the first place?

There are many religions too, and they don't necessarily follow the same idea. Believe what you will.