Author Topic: Double capping in survival (Read 4254 times)

Chariot · « **on:** May 04, 2009, 04:42:19 pm »

A commonly abused bug in R/S matches. It happens when a player from the surviving team has the flag and caps for 2 points in 1 round in the time between all enemy players being killed and all surviving players dying.

Should have been fixed ages ago.

Mittsu · « **Reply #1 on:** May 04, 2009, 04:48:49 pm »

yep, it's pretty unfair, 2 points for 1 round

should be fixed, but you can use a cool script that prevents it for now: click

tehsnipah · « **Reply #2 on:** May 04, 2009, 04:56:59 pm »

Personally, I think that if they're skilled/lucky enough to wipe the other team out and have a chance to cap the flag, they should. They earned it.

SDFilm · « **Reply #3 on:** May 04, 2009, 04:58:46 pm »

^ Indeed, who ever said its a bug anyway?

Chariot · « **Reply #4 on:** May 04, 2009, 05:03:26 pm »

If they are "skilled/lucky" enough to kill the entire team, they deserve a point. That's how you get a point, by killing the other team or capturing the flag. Not both.

The Geologist · « **Reply #5 on:** May 04, 2009, 06:38:32 pm »

Easy fix with some new/changed maps?

xurich · « **Reply #6 on:** May 05, 2009, 01:50:51 am »

I never considered it a bug personally. Like tehsnipah said, it has just always seemed to me that they earn double the points if they manage to fulfill both objectives in a single round.

STM1993 · « **Reply #7 on:** May 05, 2009, 03:33:50 am »

Well earning double points in one round is difficult and it is well-deserved, but during the time I played R/S, like many other R/S players, it is seen as a lowly thing. Note that this is not a bug either.

However, it seems that scripting can solve this problem too.

Chariot · « **Reply #8 on:** May 05, 2009, 06:37:44 am »

Most R/S servers only play default maps, except the euro ones. And almost nobody uses scripting in their servers.

Double capping isn't allowed in serious matches in R/S and I don't see how you guys get "skill" from "capping the flag when everyone is dead".

I'm curious, how many of you besides Mittsu play Survival mode regularly? It's like me giving my opinion on whether INF flag colors should be changed. It's not going to effect me.

tehsnipah · « **Reply #9 on:** May 05, 2009, 07:03:13 am »

Whaa? It isn't allowed? That's sort of dumb.

The "skill" from "capping the flag when everyone is dead" part, well, the teams will focus on killing the enemy flag carrier when they notice that their flag is gone. So it rather gives the flagger more pressure and more "gang bang" for the player.

If the player was able to survive those conditions and still able to capture, then they surely deserve to cap the flag after what the player has been going through the pressure/killings.

I play R/S also, and the fact that you can't double point is quite bothering me now. I mean now the capture point (20 point) isn't available now. It won't give them any k/d ratio boost, and it's just two points. You can catch up by wiping the enemy out twice or run and capture quick.

This "Serious R/S" rule should be changed. In my view, it is dumb to restrict getting extra point even if they earned it.

Toumaz · « **Reply #10 on:** May 05, 2009, 07:20:39 am »

Quote from: tehsnipah on May 05, 2009, 07:03:13 am

I play R/S also, and the fact that you can't double point is quite bothering me now. I mean now the capture point (20 point) isn't available now. It won't give them any k/d ratio boost, and it's just two points.

Yes, because K:D ratio is what matters the most in any competitive R/S match, naturally.

Double capping doesn't even necessarily involve any sort of skill (I'm too lazy to give an example, though!) and overall I don't see a proper reason for why it's even possible.

And if all fails, just make it an option in soldat.ini?

Chariot · « **Reply #11 on:** May 05, 2009, 09:24:28 am »

Quote from: tehsnipah on May 05, 2009, 07:03:13 am

Whaa? It isn't allowed? That's sort of dumb.

The "skill" from "capping the flag when everyone is dead" part, well, the teams will focus on killing the enemy flag carrier when they notice that their flag is gone. So it rather gives the flagger more pressure and more "gang bang" for the player.

If the player was able to survive those conditions and still able to capture, then they surely deserve to cap the flag after what the player has been going through the pressure/killings.

I play R/S also, and the fact that you can't double point is quite bothering me now. I mean now the capture point (20 point) isn't available now. It won't give them any k/d ratio boost, and it's just two points. You can catch up by wiping the enemy out twice or run and capture quick.

This "Serious R/S" rule should be changed. In my view, it is dumb to restrict getting extra point even if they earned it.

9999999 times out of 10000000 the person who double caps steals the flag from the dead FFC. Again, there is no skill in capping the flag when the entire opposing team is dead. It doesn't deserve a point. If anything deserves two points, it's capping to end a round, as opposed to after one. That requires talent and good teamwork. Fortunately it doesn't (or shouldn't) work that way.

I don't even care if it's still possible to cap after a round, as long as the points don't count towards the overall score.

I'm not arguing this to discourage capping the flag or anything. It is, after all, CTF. But gaining two points in 1 round is unfair and pointless. You should have to earn each one and not obtain them through lucky freebies or any stupid shit. You guys keep arguing that teams are entitled to extra points on the basis that double capping takes immense skill. I assure you, it doesn't. The sheer amount of times people do it in public servers should be evidence of that.

STM1993 · « **Reply #12 on:** May 06, 2009, 01:15:51 am »

I would like to ask the maps in which all these occur most.

I'd safely say that a high number of these double caps happen in small maps like Ctf_Ash.

We have led the cattle to the water, but the cattle don't wish to drink, and we can't force the cattle to drink. In the same way, we have scripts, but if no one is willing to script or to implement them, then there is nothing that we can really do. Either scripts, or people follow the honor code on their own individual desire.

Original · « **Reply #13 on:** May 16, 2009, 01:04:20 pm »

A lot of people have stated in here that if the team double caps then they "earned" it.

I on the other hand don't see much skill in it at all. Once the opposing team has died, you have 4 seconds to cap it. That time can be extended if someone /kill's. Basically the count down will restart, giving the FFC more time to run across the map to try and cap it. Depending on how many people try to extended the clock, it could be extremely simple to cap the flag(Even though I already find it fairly easy).

Two solutions:

Either get rid of double capping all together.
Or...
Shorten the amount of time the winning team has to live after round to about 1-2 seconds. That way the FFC would pretty much have to be near the flag area to cap. More skill would be involved.

This may be a little bit difficult to understand, but if you know R/s well enough then you'll know what I'm talking about.

Chariot · « **Reply #14 on:** May 16, 2009, 01:23:04 pm »

Yeah that's another good point and a reason why I believe it's a bug. The fact that your other teammates can do /kill after a round and give you all the time in the world to get 2 points is just rediculous. I know Enesce/MM are ignoring this since it has to do with Survival, but it needs to be fixed.

STM1993 · « **Reply #15 on:** May 16, 2009, 08:44:56 pm »

Quote from: Original on May 16, 2009, 01:04:20 pm

That time can be extended if someone /kill's. Basically the count down will restart, giving the FFC more time to run across the map to try and cap it.

Then that is a good reason why this is a bug and should be fixed.

I'd F12 this time.

scarface09 · « **Reply #16 on:** May 16, 2009, 10:22:15 pm »

Yes I'd also like this to be fixed! Yea...should be good.

Shinobars · « **Reply #17 on:** May 16, 2009, 10:29:49 pm »

Almost everyone from the R/S Community would F12 this notion, I'm sure.

CrayAB · « **Reply #18 on:** May 18, 2009, 06:31:04 am »

F11.

CTF =/= TDM.

</topic>

-Vis- · « **Reply #19 on:** May 18, 2009, 06:51:51 am »

Quote from: CrayAB on May 18, 2009, 06:31:04 am

F11.

CTF =/= TDM.

</topic>

That is not a valid argument against double capping alone. Nobody here is saying that normal capping should be prevented.

homerofgods · « **Reply #20 on:** May 18, 2009, 08:07:23 am »

I think I will let the R/S comunity vote on this, to me it seams like earned points, but I rarely play R/S and I think those who play it must decide.

scarface09 · « **Reply #21 on:** May 18, 2009, 08:22:06 am »

Yeah...it shouldn't really be up to the people who don't play R/S to be honest. Although their opinions still matter too. Set up a poll please, would be nice!

Chariot · « **Reply #22 on:** May 18, 2009, 10:52:28 am »

Poll added.

not like any of this matters anyways unless a certain soldat developer guy would even say something about this problem

STM1993 · « **Reply #23 on:** May 18, 2009, 11:08:24 am »

F12'd because of the issue about /kill extending the time.

For some of you who argue it's a CTF not TDM, I'd say that the way R/S is played is extremely different from Normal and Realistic, and the community is entirely different too. Due to the element of survival, killing becomes an essential way to win the game rather than to just cap. If you have managed to kill an entire team, it'd be considered equal to capping once already, so there won't be a need to cap again a second time.

It is rare for there to be caps in R/S as it is actually very difficult to do so, much harder than racing to cap the flag after killing a team (exploitable bug - surviving member of team other than flagger performing /kill to extend time). In this argument, caps while the enemy team is still alive should be worth more than capping after the enemy is dead.

Consider playing R/S and joining the community for a while if you aren't sure or if haven't played R/S. I'm no R/S player, but I've tried it before at least.

Original · « **Reply #24 on:** May 18, 2009, 01:16:46 pm »

I don't really agree with any of these options, but I'd have to say 'Add it as a server setting'. Some people like double capping, and some people don't, but this way both of those people could be happy.

I like that fact that you could get 2 points in a round, but I don't like that it's done with such ease.

Shinobars · « **Reply #25 on:** May 21, 2009, 12:35:15 am »

Quote from: Original on May 18, 2009, 01:16:46 pm

I'd have to say 'Add it as a server setting'. Some people like double capping, and some people don't, but this way both of those people could be happy.

I like that fact that you could get 2 points in a round, but I don't like that it's done with such ease.

Seconded.

SpiltCoffee · « **Reply #26 on:** May 21, 2009, 05:31:43 am »

I've got it! Write a script that detects if a team has no players left (In OnPlayerKill()), and if so, disable the flag spawn points, as to disable scoring with the flag. As soon as both teams have one or more people on them (In OnPlayerRespawn()), the flag points are reenabled and the problem is solved.

STM1993 · « **Reply #27 on:** May 21, 2009, 07:00:45 am »

^ It seems that the R/S community doesn't want scripts. That's one problem.

Quote from: Chariot on May 05, 2009, 06:37:44 am

Most R/S servers only play default maps, except the euro ones. And almost nobody uses scripting in their servers.

Centurion · « **Reply #28 on:** May 21, 2009, 08:40:53 am »

Yes, remove it plz. It's really annoying.

Chariot · « **Reply #29 on:** May 23, 2009, 09:44:56 am »

Is NSC going to do anything about this? 13/15 people agreed that something should be done about it.

-S] Chevalier [I- · « **Reply #30 on:** May 28, 2009, 01:54:54 am »

Double capping makes the game quite dull. If it were allowed, it would reward camping with the flag, often making snipers who want to win sit around their flagspawn spots, waiting for their opponent to come in to get sniped, flag returned, and capped upon. This would ensure the opponent's inability to get an extra flag cap point, even if they won the fight. Therefore, you'd usually end up in a 1v1 patience war. How fun.

Please just fix it.

Chariot · « **Reply #31 on:** June 03, 2009, 08:59:15 pm »

fix it

TheWind · « **Reply #32 on:** June 04, 2009, 09:19:30 am »

It should be fixed, its annoying when some1 runs to flag, return to own base, waits for teams victory in killing the enemy team, and then caps... Just annoying, but i like to do it myself too

:D:D:D

Chariot · « **Reply #33 on:** June 08, 2009, 08:47:19 pm »

fix it

oh yeah give me a fucking warning

I WOULDNT MIND BUT FUCKING REPLY TO THE THREAD ITS ALL I ASK

it doesnt make sense to just ignore something like this, god forbid you pay attention to actual bugs that effect something outside of normal CTF

The Geologist · « **Reply #34 on:** June 08, 2009, 10:44:50 pm »

Fix what, exactly?

From what I've seen in this topic, there are plenty of people who think there is nothing to be fixed. And there are also people who think something should be fixed. So who is right? Heck, there are even people contradicting themselves saying it's annoying and should be fixed, but they do it themselves. Maybe meant as a joke. Whatever.

Please don't tell me that the people who think there is no problem aren't the "real" players. I don't care if people just play against bots and double cap - they're still playing the game.

But seriously, are you guys lazy or what? You have had multiple solutions offered that would not involve changing the game itself and releasing a new version. Right now it's hard enough getting assistance on bugs that prevent people from playing the game entirely, not just ruining their experience because the other team scored two points instead of one.

Option #1: THE FIRST POST TO REPLY TO YOUR TOPIC. Offering a script to prevent the problem you're talking about. If no one uses a script that can solve your problem, then who's fault is that? Hmm?

Option #2: Shorten the time for a win. Seems reasonable. But there could still be people standing at the flag when time runs out.

Option #3: Change your maps. Why do you think people went through the trouble of creating a feature in Soldat that automatically downloads whatever map is up next? No, changing a map won't create massive downloads. All you have to do is move the flag spawns and make them totally inaccessible to players. Nothing about the default map has to be changed except the flag spawns and a few extra polys. You can fix your problem in a way that you would have the exact same maps minus the flags. If you really can't see this, give me your favorite default map and I'll do it for you.

I'm not saying it's not important. Do not bring that up. Everyone should address the points that are important to them.

But, with that said, I'll take a stab at why you were warned (which, ultimately, is part of the purpose of this post). You replied to the topic after roughly a week just to bump it with two words; "fix it". When it was already debated if there was anything to be fixed, and your problem was clearly addressed. Trust me, this topic was looked over. This is a forum - people read stuff you post.

If you're passionate about the subject, please don't add useless posts like that. Come on man. I've been in this game for years and I know many people feel strongly about it, and I've seen you play (although you probably didn't know it was me, unless I actually used this name

). Convey it with your words. To the point where you were warned, I think you spoke up very strongly about it. But until it becomes enough of a priority to fix, the larger bugs will take the lead.

Please don't take this the wrong way. But I felt it was necessary to address your backlash at being warned with a proper explanation. If whomever issued the warning feels differently, I don't mind hearing about it.

With that said, have a good day. Or night, wherever you're at.

-Vis- · « **Reply #35 on:** June 08, 2009, 11:21:10 pm »

Quote from: The Geologist on June 08, 2009, 10:44:50 pm

Option #3: Change your maps. Why do you think people went through the trouble of creating a feature in Soldat that automatically downloads whatever map is up next? No, changing a map won't create massive downloads. All you have to do is move the flag spawns and make them totally inaccessible to players. Nothing about the default map has to be changed except the flag spawns and a few extra polys. You can fix your problem in a way that you would have the exact same maps minus the flags. If you really can't see this, give me your favorite default map and I'll do it for you.

Uh... then how would we get a regular cap? Clearly that's not an option.

But you're right, scripts do solve this problem, and I think a couple of the R/S servers are now using such a script.

Chariot · « **Reply #36 on:** June 08, 2009, 11:35:56 pm »

Fuck I for some reason went to another site while typing up a huge paragraph and I lost it all

I'm not really interested in anyone's opinion about this anymore unless their name is NSC or I guess MM but I know he won't see this. I already have the feedback from players that I need to be sure that I'm not crazy.

And I can acknowledge that maybe I went about it in the wrong way but a bug like this doesn't deserve to be lost onto the second or third page where nobody will see it.

Why should this bug remain unfixed? 21/27 people agree that SOMETHING SHOULD BE DONE. For god's sake, we have radio taunts. Why should such useless things be added when bugs like this have been around for years and nothing has been done.

ALL I WANT is for enesce to reply in some way, even if he won't do anything about it (which wouldn't shock me)

The Geologist · « **Reply #37 on:** June 08, 2009, 11:58:18 pm »

Unless I'm missing something (any maybe I am, please correct me if I'm wrong).

But, the only change that was the placement of the flag spawns for a new map. Maybe a demonstration is in order.

Here is Ash, as always:
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/3364/asha.jpg

Here is AshRS, with a modified name:
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/3387/ashrs.jpg

See the new map name and different flag placement? If someone puts this on a normal ctf server, they've gotta be retarded. If someone puts it in a survival server, no one can grab the flags and the map layout that players fight on is unchanged. Tested on RS mode and worked fine.

This isn't an option to appease people who want to cap in survival. More like an option for those who don't want caps happening during games.

Edit: This idea has definitely caught the attention of EnEsCe, as indicated by his topic. If you have any more problems related to this game mode, please see his latest topic.

Quantifier · « **Reply #38 on:** June 09, 2009, 01:54:37 am »

Quote from: The Geologist on June 08, 2009, 10:44:50 pm

Fix what, exactly?

From what I've seen in this topic, there are plenty of people who think there is nothing to be fixed. And there are also people who think something should be fixed. So who is right? Heck, there are even people contradicting themselves saying it's annoying and should be fixed, but they do it themselves. Maybe meant as a joke. Whatever.

Back in 1.2.1, survival ctf round _always_ ended with a cap.

This lead to few problems:
#1 Sometimes when only one team remained alive, they took their time to do the actual capture.
#2 There was problem with spawncapping, when alive players from team that lost were still near enemy base.
#3 Round start completely ignored wave respawn system, if there was no wave between your death and start of next round, you stayed dead for the rest of round.

Current state of survival ctf is a crude and bugridden attempt to workaround for above problems.
I don't understand why #2 and #3 had to be fixed by killing everyone. Forcing a respawn in base would be much more elegant.
The best fix for #1 would be round timeout, overall, or kicked in after killing enemy team. Possibly determined by distance and time needed to get to flag and back to base.
And if you don't manage to capture the flag, you don't deserve the point.

Shinobars · « **Reply #39 on:** June 09, 2009, 03:11:53 am »

If the flags are unreachable, how does someone cap at all? Double capping is frowned upon, but if you manage to cap without killing your opponents, and therefore only gain one point, there's no problem. It's just that two points are not earned by eradicating all of the opposition and then capping the flag afterward.

Now, I do believe implementing scripts would be the proper thing to do. Unless, that is, we randomly become super relegated like SCTFL and disallow scripting altogether. Makes sense for SCTFL, as it's the largest Soldat based league in existence, but a no-scripts rule doesn't make much sense for R/S servers. Although, I have played in a couple of servers with "anti-double capping" scripts, but nothing changed. I got a scary message saying "Double capturing has no effect," but I still got the extra point. Perhaps we need a better script?

On the other hand, would it really take that much effort to fix the bug and include it in the inevitable 1.5.1 patch? I wouldn't think so, but I guess I can't really know for sure since I'm not a scripter. It'd just be nice if this inconvenience could be permanently laid to rest, but if it's too much of a hassle to fix (although it's not too much of a hassle, as Chariot pointed out, to implement a silly radio type thing), then I guess we'll just have to make do with unwanted scripts.

demoniac93 · « **Reply #40 on:** June 09, 2009, 07:47:43 am »

IMO there's not anything much to fix except to make the round end immediately after one of the teams is completely eliminated...Why wait 4\5\... seconds that can be extended by /kill-ing?
Just make the round end the moment the last player of one of the teams is dead.

freestyler · « **Reply #41 on:** June 09, 2009, 07:58:51 am »

Or do an effect similiar to /pause, show F1 list and wait 3-5 seconds. Then start next round.

And this is scriptable too (without F1 menu part).

-Major- · « **Reply #42 on:** June 09, 2009, 09:21:46 am »

TheGogelist must be the slowest person in the world... how exactly do you cap a regular cap at http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/3387/ashrs.jpg ?

the point is to just /kill everyone as soon as 1 team has been killed, or making it only possible to score once in a round.

and those who ask for this are the more "serious" R/S players, not some random public server players. ofc it should be set after their will, not what normal mode players who occasionally plays on a R/S server.

The Geologist · « **Reply #43 on:** June 09, 2009, 05:42:14 pm »

Misunderstood

-Vis- · « **Reply #44 on:** June 09, 2009, 06:12:09 pm »

Quote from: The Geologist on June 09, 2009, 05:42:14 pm

The who? Learn to type.

The point of the map is that you can't score. If you can't understand the reason behind using a map like this to prevent capping, I can't help you.

Want to cap? Use the original map.
Don't want people capping? Use the updated map. Takes seconds to download.

With different names, they can both be in the map list and called up as needed.

Not that hard kid. Just one of the simple solutions offered in this topic that could solve this problem until it's fixed.

You still don't seem to understand (or if you do, then your post isn't relevant to this topic, and I'm wasting my time). There are two separate aspects of game play which must be simultaneously active:

1) It must be possible to capture the flag whilst members of the opposing team are still alive.
2) It must not be possible to capture the flag (or more accurately gain another point in the same round) after the opposing team is eliminated.

Your method of changing the map does not solve this problem. Preventing capping outright is not an option.

The Geologist · « **Reply #45 on:** June 09, 2009, 06:23:54 pm »

Must have misunderstood the problem then. Been b***hed at for capping in both situations (other team alive or dead), so I had come to the conclusion that capping in general was the issue. Part of the reason I haven't touched survival in a long time.

My bad.

Still doesn't change my point here - there are easy fixes available until the problem is fixed. If people don't want to use them, that's they're own problem. Raising a point here is just what should be done, but keep making a strong point about it. Useless bumps don't do much when the problem is already known about, which is why someone got warned.

Chariot · « **Reply #46 on:** June 09, 2009, 07:19:59 pm »

Quote from: The Geologist on June 09, 2009, 06:23:54 pm

Must have misunderstood the problem then. Been b***hed at for capping in both situations (other team alive or dead), so I had come to the conclusion that capping in general was the issue. Part of the reason I haven't touched survival in a long time.

I'll let that slide...even though I explicitly stated that capping in round isn't a problem in my previous posts. You must have neglected to read them. NP!

Quote

Still doesn't change my point here - there are easy fixes available until the problem is fixed.

I'm not looking for a band-aid. As long as I know there WILL BE a permanent fix for this in future Soldat versions, I can live with it until that time.

Quote

Useless bumps don't do much when the problem is already known about, which is why someone got warned.

NSC replies to most other bug report threads when there is actually some bug that needs to be resolved. He hasn't (to my knowledge) said anything about the issue. How am I supposed to know it was already known? When did he say "Ok I see that there is a problem and I am going to fix it"? All I wanted was to know that it was/wasn't going to be fixed.

But whatever, it seems that you or someone has brought this to his attention and I thank you or someone for doing so.

The Geologist · « **Reply #47 on:** June 09, 2009, 07:26:57 pm »

Yea. That's what happens when I come back to a topic after viewing a moderator report, look at the offending post and the ones immediately around it, and don't re-read the entire topic. Sorry 'bout that.

Anyhow, although it seems you already know, please know that he knows. It's been known, but I'm guessing it took a back seat to more serious problems.

Chariot · « **Reply #48 on:** June 09, 2009, 07:30:31 pm »

Thanks, this can be locked.

EnEsCe · « **Reply #49 on:** June 09, 2009, 07:44:00 pm »

I do not (and am not going to) give comments on certain topics (such as this) because once I do, people will cling to whatever I state regarding this issue and the discussion will die with people just quoting me and saying "Well that's the final word, kthxbye". I want to see every last possible opinion on topics such as this. I will comment once I am certain what I am saying is set in concrete. Which might not be until the day 1.5.1 is released.

That is all, banana cake.

P.S: It was me that warned you.

tehsnipah · « **Reply #50 on:** June 10, 2009, 07:04:56 am »

What?! As the voting shows, it shows that it should be changed. Why?! That's so not fair!

Do you guys even know how hard it is to couble cap? It's rare to do it, unless you're in an official clan of the RS.

If you think of it that way, I personally refer this from basketball.
If the defense make a foul while offence tries to score and still scores. Then they get to still shoot free throws. It's similar to double capping, because my point is, it's very arduous.

Seriously, how many times do you see people making double cap per 5 minutes. Me? I don't play as much, but in 30 minutes, I've only seen two or three double caps. It's not that common unless you completely suck in RS. The maps are big, and you don't even know where players are, so if an enemy gets the flag, you're pretty much having a manhunt. Usually, players meet in the center and finishes them off, not many players are stupid enough to go to enemy base, where they can camp and double cap. In that time where they kill all the players in the center, they won't have time to go back to their base.

Please, leave the double capping alone.

Shinobars · « **Reply #51 on:** June 10, 2009, 07:05:28 pm »

Uhh... basketball isn't Soldat. And double capping isn't the result of any sort of "foul," so I don't see your point. o.o

Also, most of the maps R/Sers play on aren't large. The people talking in this thread come from the Default R/S Community, which plays on only default maps. Most popular among those maps are Ash, Nuubia, and DD2. Those are small maps, and people go all the different routes. Furthemore, if you're any good at R/S (except for Joe, who will never be in a clan but is awesome) you're most likely in a clan. It's not really hard to double cap if you're around people who know what they're doing, such as people in a clan.

Basically, I have no idea how you came to the conclusion that double capping is hard. Hell, I did it four times in four rounds on Ash once! (It was a public server, in there we just play silly. I'd never double cap in a scrim/cw.) Definitely not difficult to do, and it's, as has been stated before, completely unfair to award a second point for very little work.

Chariot · « **Reply #52 on:** June 10, 2009, 07:36:48 pm »

Quote from: tehsnipah on June 10, 2009, 07:04:56 am

What?! As the voting shows, it shows that it should be changed. Why?! That's so not fair!

Do you guys even know how hard it is to couble cap? It's rare to do it, unless you're in an official clan of the RS.

If you think of it that way, I personally refer this from basketball.
If the defense make a foul while offence tries to score and still scores. Then they get to still shoot free throws. It's similar to double capping, because my point is, it's very arduous.

Seriously, how many times do you see people making double cap per 5 minutes. Me? I don't play as much, but in 30 minutes, I've only seen two or three double caps. It's not that common unless you completely suck in RS. The maps are big, and you don't even know where players are, so if an enemy gets the flag, you're pretty much having a manhunt. Usually, players meet in the center and finishes them off, not many players are stupid enough to go to enemy base, where they can camp and double cap. In that time where they kill all the players in the center, they won't have time to go back to their base.

Please, leave the double capping alone.

The way you go on and on about how it's so hard and you rarely see it happen only proves that either you are very bad at R/S and double capping and are playing with people who are just as bad OR you don't play R/S enough with experienced people.

And the fact that you can extend the time allowed to perform a double cap by performing a short command makes it all the more ridiculous to keep it in the game.

tehsnipah · « **Reply #53 on:** June 10, 2009, 07:48:10 pm »

Then simply fix those kind of bugs, not removing the whole double capping.

It is true that I don't play R/S as much, but I can tell it's few bugs players can take advantage of. If those bugs are fixed, then are you going to reconsider removing the whole double capping option?

Shinobars · « **Reply #54 on:** June 11, 2009, 12:42:01 pm »

Since double capping, which is viewed as a bug by most of those in R/S, is unfair according to our rules, I believe it'd be great for it to be removed. Or, as I voted, for it to be optionally removed. If a server wants it, leave it on. But for the majority of others who don't want it, turn it off!

-S] Chevalier [I- · « **Reply #55 on:** June 14, 2009, 06:26:21 am »

I don't care about /kill increasing round length or any of that crap. The validity and ability for double capping is what this is about. I shall ignore any question towards the magnitude of double capping and instead focus directly on whether it should or should not be allowed.

I also do not care about the general R/S view on double capping. It's not allowed. The reasons for this are all that matters to me, and the ease of double capping and the static gameplay style which it enforces are why I disagree with it.

Quote from: tehsnipah on June 10, 2009, 07:04:56 am

Do you guys even know how hard it is to couble cap? It's rare to do it, unless you're in an official clan of the RS.

It's not. I outlined this is my other post. Clan-status has nothing to do with the ability to double cap.

Quote from: tehsnipah on June 10, 2009, 07:04:56 am

Seriously, how many times do you see people making double cap per 5 minutes. Me? I don't play as much, but in 30 minutes, I've only seen two or three double caps.

In any given scrim or clan war, the chances are that people accidentally, even though it's against the rules, will either double cap once or twice or do a backflip/decently-placed jump to avoid such. It's really that easy, even when you don't try to.

Quote from: tehsnipah on June 10, 2009, 07:04:56 am

It's not that common unless you completely suck in RS. The maps are big, and you don't even know where players are, so if an enemy gets the flag, you're pretty much having a manhunt. Usually, players meet in the center and finishes them off, not many players are stupid enough to go to enemy base, where they can camp and double cap. In that time where they kill all the players in the center, they won't have time to go back to their base.

1) Above, you said how it's rarer to double cap if you're not in an R/S clan. Therefore, how is it that people who suck at RS find it to be common? Do people in R/S clans suck at R/S? Do you even know much about R/S?
2) Ash is one of the most common maps picked. It is not a large map. Cobra, Snakebite, and other small-to-medium sized maps are often picked as well. You will not see Run or B2B suggested.
3) Generally, when it comes down to a 1v1, each player will steal their opponent's flag, within a few seconds. This does not take "camping" in the opponent's base--you just grab it and run to shelter, then slowly move across the map, trying to outdo your opponent. If double capping were allowed, both players would just return to their respective bases and camp, as killing their opponent would then result in a double cap and dying to their opponent would eliminate their foe's ability to double cap due to distance.

Meteorisch · « **Reply #56 on:** June 15, 2009, 09:21:53 am »

Gosh this should've been changed when soldat came out.

Looks like the people don't care about the opinion of the REAL R/S players.

If you'd ask our community, then everyone would agree that it should be removed.
Whatever .. WHO CARES do we? it's R/S after all...

..

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Author Topic: Double capping in survival (Read 4254 times)