Author Topic: Double capping in survival (Read 4256 times)

homerofgods · « **Reply #20 on:** May 18, 2009, 08:07:23 am »

I think I will let the R/S comunity vote on this, to me it seams like earned points, but I rarely play R/S and I think those who play it must decide.

scarface09 · « **Reply #21 on:** May 18, 2009, 08:22:06 am »

Yeah...it shouldn't really be up to the people who don't play R/S to be honest. Although their opinions still matter too. Set up a poll please, would be nice!

Chariot · « **Reply #22 on:** May 18, 2009, 10:52:28 am »

Poll added.

not like any of this matters anyways unless a certain soldat developer guy would even say something about this problem

STM1993 · « **Reply #23 on:** May 18, 2009, 11:08:24 am »

F12'd because of the issue about /kill extending the time.

For some of you who argue it's a CTF not TDM, I'd say that the way R/S is played is extremely different from Normal and Realistic, and the community is entirely different too. Due to the element of survival, killing becomes an essential way to win the game rather than to just cap. If you have managed to kill an entire team, it'd be considered equal to capping once already, so there won't be a need to cap again a second time.

It is rare for there to be caps in R/S as it is actually very difficult to do so, much harder than racing to cap the flag after killing a team (exploitable bug - surviving member of team other than flagger performing /kill to extend time). In this argument, caps while the enemy team is still alive should be worth more than capping after the enemy is dead.

Consider playing R/S and joining the community for a while if you aren't sure or if haven't played R/S. I'm no R/S player, but I've tried it before at least.

Original · « **Reply #24 on:** May 18, 2009, 01:16:46 pm »

I don't really agree with any of these options, but I'd have to say 'Add it as a server setting'. Some people like double capping, and some people don't, but this way both of those people could be happy.

I like that fact that you could get 2 points in a round, but I don't like that it's done with such ease.

Shinobars · « **Reply #25 on:** May 21, 2009, 12:35:15 am »

Quote from: Original on May 18, 2009, 01:16:46 pm

I'd have to say 'Add it as a server setting'. Some people like double capping, and some people don't, but this way both of those people could be happy.

I like that fact that you could get 2 points in a round, but I don't like that it's done with such ease.

Seconded.

SpiltCoffee · « **Reply #26 on:** May 21, 2009, 05:31:43 am »

I've got it! Write a script that detects if a team has no players left (In OnPlayerKill()), and if so, disable the flag spawn points, as to disable scoring with the flag. As soon as both teams have one or more people on them (In OnPlayerRespawn()), the flag points are reenabled and the problem is solved.

STM1993 · « **Reply #27 on:** May 21, 2009, 07:00:45 am »

^ It seems that the R/S community doesn't want scripts. That's one problem.

Quote from: Chariot on May 05, 2009, 06:37:44 am

Most R/S servers only play default maps, except the euro ones. And almost nobody uses scripting in their servers.

Centurion · « **Reply #28 on:** May 21, 2009, 08:40:53 am »

Yes, remove it plz. It's really annoying.

Chariot · « **Reply #29 on:** May 23, 2009, 09:44:56 am »

Is NSC going to do anything about this? 13/15 people agreed that something should be done about it.

-S] Chevalier [I- · « **Reply #30 on:** May 28, 2009, 01:54:54 am »

Double capping makes the game quite dull. If it were allowed, it would reward camping with the flag, often making snipers who want to win sit around their flagspawn spots, waiting for their opponent to come in to get sniped, flag returned, and capped upon. This would ensure the opponent's inability to get an extra flag cap point, even if they won the fight. Therefore, you'd usually end up in a 1v1 patience war. How fun.

Please just fix it.

Chariot · « **Reply #31 on:** June 03, 2009, 08:59:15 pm »

fix it

TheWind · « **Reply #32 on:** June 04, 2009, 09:19:30 am »

It should be fixed, its annoying when some1 runs to flag, return to own base, waits for teams victory in killing the enemy team, and then caps... Just annoying, but i like to do it myself too

:D:D:D

Chariot · « **Reply #33 on:** June 08, 2009, 08:47:19 pm »

fix it

oh yeah give me a fucking warning

I WOULDNT MIND BUT FUCKING REPLY TO THE THREAD ITS ALL I ASK

it doesnt make sense to just ignore something like this, god forbid you pay attention to actual bugs that effect something outside of normal CTF

The Geologist · « **Reply #34 on:** June 08, 2009, 10:44:50 pm »

Fix what, exactly?

From what I've seen in this topic, there are plenty of people who think there is nothing to be fixed. And there are also people who think something should be fixed. So who is right? Heck, there are even people contradicting themselves saying it's annoying and should be fixed, but they do it themselves. Maybe meant as a joke. Whatever.

Please don't tell me that the people who think there is no problem aren't the "real" players. I don't care if people just play against bots and double cap - they're still playing the game.

But seriously, are you guys lazy or what? You have had multiple solutions offered that would not involve changing the game itself and releasing a new version. Right now it's hard enough getting assistance on bugs that prevent people from playing the game entirely, not just ruining their experience because the other team scored two points instead of one.

Option #1: THE FIRST POST TO REPLY TO YOUR TOPIC. Offering a script to prevent the problem you're talking about. If no one uses a script that can solve your problem, then who's fault is that? Hmm?

Option #2: Shorten the time for a win. Seems reasonable. But there could still be people standing at the flag when time runs out.

Option #3: Change your maps. Why do you think people went through the trouble of creating a feature in Soldat that automatically downloads whatever map is up next? No, changing a map won't create massive downloads. All you have to do is move the flag spawns and make them totally inaccessible to players. Nothing about the default map has to be changed except the flag spawns and a few extra polys. You can fix your problem in a way that you would have the exact same maps minus the flags. If you really can't see this, give me your favorite default map and I'll do it for you.

I'm not saying it's not important. Do not bring that up. Everyone should address the points that are important to them.

But, with that said, I'll take a stab at why you were warned (which, ultimately, is part of the purpose of this post). You replied to the topic after roughly a week just to bump it with two words; "fix it". When it was already debated if there was anything to be fixed, and your problem was clearly addressed. Trust me, this topic was looked over. This is a forum - people read stuff you post.

If you're passionate about the subject, please don't add useless posts like that. Come on man. I've been in this game for years and I know many people feel strongly about it, and I've seen you play (although you probably didn't know it was me, unless I actually used this name

). Convey it with your words. To the point where you were warned, I think you spoke up very strongly about it. But until it becomes enough of a priority to fix, the larger bugs will take the lead.

Please don't take this the wrong way. But I felt it was necessary to address your backlash at being warned with a proper explanation. If whomever issued the warning feels differently, I don't mind hearing about it.

With that said, have a good day. Or night, wherever you're at.

-Vis- · « **Reply #35 on:** June 08, 2009, 11:21:10 pm »

Quote from: The Geologist on June 08, 2009, 10:44:50 pm

Option #3: Change your maps. Why do you think people went through the trouble of creating a feature in Soldat that automatically downloads whatever map is up next? No, changing a map won't create massive downloads. All you have to do is move the flag spawns and make them totally inaccessible to players. Nothing about the default map has to be changed except the flag spawns and a few extra polys. You can fix your problem in a way that you would have the exact same maps minus the flags. If you really can't see this, give me your favorite default map and I'll do it for you.

Uh... then how would we get a regular cap? Clearly that's not an option.

But you're right, scripts do solve this problem, and I think a couple of the R/S servers are now using such a script.

Chariot · « **Reply #36 on:** June 08, 2009, 11:35:56 pm »

Fuck I for some reason went to another site while typing up a huge paragraph and I lost it all

I'm not really interested in anyone's opinion about this anymore unless their name is NSC or I guess MM but I know he won't see this. I already have the feedback from players that I need to be sure that I'm not crazy.

And I can acknowledge that maybe I went about it in the wrong way but a bug like this doesn't deserve to be lost onto the second or third page where nobody will see it.

Why should this bug remain unfixed? 21/27 people agree that SOMETHING SHOULD BE DONE. For god's sake, we have radio taunts. Why should such useless things be added when bugs like this have been around for years and nothing has been done.

ALL I WANT is for enesce to reply in some way, even if he won't do anything about it (which wouldn't shock me)

The Geologist · « **Reply #37 on:** June 08, 2009, 11:58:18 pm »

Unless I'm missing something (any maybe I am, please correct me if I'm wrong).

But, the only change that was the placement of the flag spawns for a new map. Maybe a demonstration is in order.

Here is Ash, as always:
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/3364/asha.jpg

Here is AshRS, with a modified name:
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/3387/ashrs.jpg

See the new map name and different flag placement? If someone puts this on a normal ctf server, they've gotta be retarded. If someone puts it in a survival server, no one can grab the flags and the map layout that players fight on is unchanged. Tested on RS mode and worked fine.

This isn't an option to appease people who want to cap in survival. More like an option for those who don't want caps happening during games.

Edit: This idea has definitely caught the attention of EnEsCe, as indicated by his topic. If you have any more problems related to this game mode, please see his latest topic.

Quantifier · « **Reply #38 on:** June 09, 2009, 01:54:37 am »

Quote from: The Geologist on June 08, 2009, 10:44:50 pm

Fix what, exactly?

From what I've seen in this topic, there are plenty of people who think there is nothing to be fixed. And there are also people who think something should be fixed. So who is right? Heck, there are even people contradicting themselves saying it's annoying and should be fixed, but they do it themselves. Maybe meant as a joke. Whatever.

Back in 1.2.1, survival ctf round _always_ ended with a cap.

This lead to few problems:
#1 Sometimes when only one team remained alive, they took their time to do the actual capture.
#2 There was problem with spawncapping, when alive players from team that lost were still near enemy base.
#3 Round start completely ignored wave respawn system, if there was no wave between your death and start of next round, you stayed dead for the rest of round.

Current state of survival ctf is a crude and bugridden attempt to workaround for above problems.
I don't understand why #2 and #3 had to be fixed by killing everyone. Forcing a respawn in base would be much more elegant.
The best fix for #1 would be round timeout, overall, or kicked in after killing enemy team. Possibly determined by distance and time needed to get to flag and back to base.
And if you don't manage to capture the flag, you don't deserve the point.

Shinobars · « **Reply #39 on:** June 09, 2009, 03:11:53 am »

If the flags are unreachable, how does someone cap at all? Double capping is frowned upon, but if you manage to cap without killing your opponents, and therefore only gain one point, there's no problem. It's just that two points are not earned by eradicating all of the opposition and then capping the flag afterward.

Now, I do believe implementing scripts would be the proper thing to do. Unless, that is, we randomly become super relegated like SCTFL and disallow scripting altogether. Makes sense for SCTFL, as it's the largest Soldat based league in existence, but a no-scripts rule doesn't make much sense for R/S servers. Although, I have played in a couple of servers with "anti-double capping" scripts, but nothing changed. I got a scary message saying "Double capturing has no effect," but I still got the extra point. Perhaps we need a better script?

On the other hand, would it really take that much effort to fix the bug and include it in the inevitable 1.5.1 patch? I wouldn't think so, but I guess I can't really know for sure since I'm not a scripter. It'd just be nice if this inconvenience could be permanently laid to rest, but if it's too much of a hassle to fix (although it's not too much of a hassle, as Chariot pointed out, to implement a silly radio type thing), then I guess we'll just have to make do with unwanted scripts.

News:

Poll

Should double-capping be fixed?

Author Topic: Double capping in survival (Read 4256 times)