Barrett Discussion.

[demoniac93]

Well then good luck with that.
Might as well take you to join 20 gathers before finding one guy using the barret during a gather.

[-Major-]

I always uses barrett in gather , unless I play with M79.

Barrett needs a dmg boost... rather than a nerf....

[STM1993]

Barrett needs a dmg boost... rather than a nerf....

What kind of damage boost? Make it shoot faster or make it deal more damage its already 1-hit kill single Barrett shot (so that it can kill more than one full-health opponent)?

[-Major-]

so that it kills with ricos.

[demoniac93]

so that it kills with ricos.

If the angle isn't too wide it does.

[-Major-]

so that it kills with ricos.

If the angle isn't too wide it does.

ye, but those double ricos should kill...

[STM1993]

so that it kills with ricos.

That'd do. Not much of a big buff for the Barrett since it's almost strictly a 1-person 1-hitter and ricochets should be able to kill at any range, unless you get two people in a row, but even then it can't kill two people unless the second guy is low on health.

The only issue I worry about is whether the vest deserves such a major compromise when the damage in the Barrett is raised.

[-Major-]

ah yeah... the vest might get nerfed too much.... what about hardcoding for brt? :p

[Gnoblar]

So should we leave the Barrett, or give it a small buff?

[tehsnipah]

Leave the Barrett as the way it is.

No wait, if it was up to me, I would decrease the bink (Ultimate overpowering)

[STM1993]

I personally like the idea of buffing the Barrett's damage so that it can actually kill 2 full-health non-vest opponents in a row, but without compromising the vest.

ah yeah... the vest might get nerfed too much.... what about hardcoding for brt? :p

I have a few ideas if hardcoding is used or a new bullet style be made, like the idea that the Spas pellet spread should be changed. I recommend idea 2 (idea 1 was a draft):

1) The damage of the Barrett is solely dependent on the Damage value. The bullet speed value does not make a difference in damage, just how straight the bullet flies and how fast it flies - so Damage x Speed d=/= True Damage in this case.

However, this is a problem too - it forces the Barrett to do the same damage to everyone it passes through, which either drastically nerfs the Barrett, or over-improve its multikill ability against non-vest opponents. Try modding your weapon.ini and set the Barrett's damage to 900000, then take it on a row of charging zombies. You'll know what I mean.

2) The damage is Damage x INITIAL Speed, meaning its always 495 x 550 = [272,250] no matter how far it travels or whether it ricochets. However, there are some conditions:
A) This only applies to the first opponent the bullet hits, provided he has no vest.
B) If the first opponent wears a vest, the damage is 495 x CURRENT Speed.
C) If the bullet hits a second person (whether with vest or not), the damage is 495 x CURRENT Speed.

Note: Normal Barrett stats as of 1.5:
Damage: 495
Fireinterval: 225
Ammo: 10
Reload: 300
Bullet Speed: 550
Startup: 25
Bink: 100
Movementacc: 7

Realistic Barrett stats as of 1.5:
Damage: 495
Fireinterval: 200
Ammo: 10
Reload: 270
Bullet Speed: 550
Startup: 16
Bink: 80
Movementacc: 8
Recoil: 0

Normal HP: 150,000
Realistic HP: 65,000

[-Major-]

increase damage to 600-700 \o/

[STM1993]

increase damage to 600-700 \o/

If it is just increasing the damage, it'd still compromise the vest, even if a full-health full-vest Soldaten can take a single shot. A vest user is bound to face enemy fire in between. The current Barrett damage takes away much of the vest and health, but the remaining health and vest is still enough for the vest-user to stay in an engagement long enough even if he faces a few non-1-hit/non-explosive shots in between.

[LtKillroy]

If you remove the Startup time, you wouldn't make the weapon better, you would just screw up each single trained sniper in Soldat. Thrust me.

That's exactly what happened when they added startup and why I stopped using it.

Currently the barret is pretty trash and has been since they nerfed in it 1.3. While I don't actually think we should remove it, if you have never played with a barret without startup you should try it, its not as imbalanced as you might think, however dumb it is. I do think that we should either lower fire interval, startup, or load time, hopefully all of them.

[STM1993]

While I don't actually think we should remove it, if you have never played with a barret without startup you should try it, its not as imbalanced as you might think, however dumb it is.

I disagree with you when it comes to saying that the Barrett is not as imbalanced without startup time. The moment you see someone, all you need to do is just stop, point, click. Even before his bullets reach you, you'd have already killed him - and that is the very essence/strength of the Barrett, but brought to an overpowered level. With enough practice, you wouldn't miss at all. Because of this, everyone would use the Barrett. Now Soldat becomes a war of "whoever sees the other first and shoots first, wins" and gameplay become slow and defensive. Also, back then, the Barrett's delay between shots is 240. The current Barrett's delay is 225 FI + 25 startup = 250 delay.

The other problem is that Soldat is not all about CTF, though that's the most common game mode. There is INF and DM. If we're going to have to make every weapon balanced for only CTF, then it'd be highly unbalanced in the other game modes. The Barrett is arguably the best weapon in INF, and the current balance supports this further.

If there is a startup time, the case in the first paragraph would be avoided. I think lowering the startup while increasing the fireinterval would be a way to ensure that it is more usable in CTF, while remaining balanced in the other game modes by changing the ease of firing a Barrett from reduced startup time while keeping the overall time taken to fire the Barrett the same (other weapons may need to be buffed too to make up for the ease of firing).

I'll talk again another time, it's late and I can't think right now.

[demoniac93]

While I don't actually think we should remove it, if you have never played with a barret without startup you should try it, its not as imbalanced as you might think, however dumb it is.

I disagree with you when it comes to saying that the Barrett is not as imbalanced without startup time. The moment you see someone, all you need to do is just stop, point, click. Even before his bullets reach you, you'd have already killed him - and that is the very essence/strength of the Barrett, but brought to an overpowered level. With enough practice, you wouldn't miss at all. Because of this, everyone would use the Barrett. Now Soldat becomes a war of "whoever sees the other first and shoots first, wins" and gameplay become slow and defensive. Also, back then, the Barrett's delay between shots is 240. The current Barrett's delay is 225 FI + 25 startup = 250 delay.

The other problem is that Soldat is not all about CTF, though that's the most common game mode. There is INF and DM. If we're going to have to make every weapon balanced for only CTF, then it'd be highly unbalanced in the other game modes. The Barrett is arguably the best weapon in INF, and the current balance supports this further.

............Etc...

You're thoughts on that pretty much summed up all I know about the barret's weakness and strength. Even though I'm a barret freak, and have learned a lot from ricochets to hitting targets (moving too) while under heavy bink, and adjusting my game play to barret\knife elitism.

I play for the feeling of the hunt, so I use the barret and knife as they are one of the best combos both in inf and 1on1's among other situations. However, I have also learned through all that, that the barret does NOT need any more buffs, the only thing to change about it imo would have to be the interval as STM said, but yet again, you forget that instead of having barret as a primary and carrying another secondary you could pick up a dropped primary weapon and use the barret as a secondary, prety much like the knife, only a wee bit less versatile, yet a lot more secure.

Another nice combo to help out the barret is training your US socom skills, and I've seen some people play like crazy when switching to the socom during 1on1 or 1on2 situations, if you train it on zombie and mission mod servers believe me you'll have more than enough to back up the barret.

That being said, BARRET ROCKS!

[Mallow007]

I always uses barrett in gather , unless I play with M79.

Barrett needs a dmg boost... rather than a nerf....

This is the definition of i need help with my aim plz.

Now on Barret is fine but i know ppl that can SHOT AND NEVER MISS when they are being binked...its insane u should fix that prone shot thingy

[Shard]

Thrust me.

I'll thrust you onto my barret. Its a powerfull gun, without startup time i think it would be leaning more to realistic, alos it would need to be called an M40 casue you would want a longer dealy between shots(boltaction) I say just leave it be.

[kzya]

It needs less bink -period-

[STM1993]

I think the bink is just fine, it's the firing rate (either fireinterval OR startup time, but mostly the startup time) that I'm most concerned about. Besides, don't you know that if you are proning/crouching, you get much less bink when you are shot, just as is the self-bink lower when you are firing an automatic? And you shouldn't really be rushing with the Barrett, chances are, you're sitting at a choke point in a crouch or prone position.