Eurabia - We have less than 40 years

[demoniac93]

And Espadon, if your people and friends were seen by the whole world as terrorists and cavemen cause of propaganda and racism, wouldn't you let yourself become "emotional"?
Our pride as Arabs has never blinded us, we hold our ground by word and deed, cause we know our rights and duties.

The issue is about a concept in Arab culture that is reflected best in the Bedouin phrase, "I and my brothers against my cousins, I and my brothers and my cousins against the world." There's a general self-alienation going on here and that is the root cause of a lot of the issues we have today.

I'm impressed, it's nice to see some people still bother to study other cultures just to educate themselves, and make a point. You're well informed as I see.
However, you should also know that the people have been slowly letting go of that concept over the past few years, and it's a fact that as the Arab cultures move more and more towards civil rule, and not traditional family rule, there will be more people punished by the law for such acts.

[Clawbug]

I hate how people are trying artifically to ruin this thread. See CATWAGON's post on page 4. Note to mods: Clear the bad posts instead of closing the thread, would help everyone.

The problem is intolerant people. From both sides.

Let me put this straight; I oppose immigration if:
  1) The people immigrating fail to respect the local laws and values.
  2) The people immigrating fail to adapt to the local lifestyle despite their previous one.
  3) The people immigrating cause conflicts(be that religious or political) for whatever reason.
  4) The people immigrating are a burden for the local nation.

The 4th point will catch you, however before you rage at me, note that in the country I live in(Finland) it is VERY easy to EXPLOIT the system by not doing ANY work. Basically living as a PARASITE, getting paid(some 400-500 EUR per month, enough to live without any financial problems) for doing nothing. And yes, we have tons of people like that around here. And we are taking in more and more. Hardly any of them are being sent back, no matter what they do.

Of 326 rapes commited in Helsinki during 2000-2007, 135 were commited by immigrants. This makes up a tad more than 41 %. In 2006, there were 517633 citizens living in Helsinki. Out of those, 46888 were immigrants. That's a tad less than 8,5 %. Everyone should do the math themselves. Some numbers about crimes by immigrants in Helsinki:

Murders: 14 %.
Mugglings/being a part of a fight: 17,6 %
Robberies and blackmailings: 31,8 %
Rapes: 41,4 %

(Only the crimes which' perperator has been identified have been taken into account on the statistics)

Source being "Helsingin Sanomat", translated as "Helsinki Daily Paper", the most read Finnish newspaper: http://www.hs.fi/kuvat/iso_webkuva/1135233947201.jpeg

I personally believe that problems like this are being caused by poor immigrancy policies. Too soft "filters" and lack of support for immigrants coming from very different cultures. Some of them can't even read or write, let alone speak English, Swedish or Finnish at all. However, why should such immigrants being accepted in in the first place anyway?

Basically this is how I see it: In Finland, the immigrancy is a "good act/deed" to help those "below us"(in a sense of quality of life, financial problems, safety in their own countries) and we want to help them. I believe this is right. However, I greatly oppose this when their improved quality of life, financial state and safety happens at native peoples' expense.

The crime statistics show that the more there are immigrants, the higher the percentage of crimes commited by immigrants is. This coupled with the fact that if the crime rate by immigrants is higher than that of native local people, they are being a burden compared to the local people. This is the trend these days in Finland, immigrants bring problems. Their wellbeing happens at our expense. And I dislike this, very much.

Can one call me a racist when my beliefs and ideals are based upon proven facts and statistics about this particular problem? In Finland it has been suggested by the government that immigrant's employment rate should be kept secret for at least a decade, this does not apply for the native Finns. I find this odd, and it is not being fair among the native Finns and immigrants. It kind of "hides" the problem with their low employment rates.

[croat1gamer]

Compare it to the native people:

Murders: 86 %.
Mugglings/being a part of a fight: 82.4 %
Robberies and blackmailings: 68.2 %
Rapes: 59.6 %

[Clawbug]

Compare it to the native people:

Murders: 86 %.
Mugglings/being a part of a fight: 82.4 %
Robberies and blackmailings: 68.2 %
Rapes: 59.6 %

Stop being stupid just for the sake of it. Do you care to calculate the number of crimes per citizen?

I'll start.
1,66 x the murders when compared to native Finn.
2,05 x the mugglings/being a part of a fight when compared to native Finn.

I want you to calculate the rest.

Some unemployment rate statistics from the Finnish Ministry of Labour: http://www.mol.fi/mol/fi/99_pdf/fi/04_maahanmuutto/08_maahanmuuttotilastot/wulktyoll.pdf

Everyone can check that for their own(It's in Finnish and English). Basic principle is that European immigrants have the lowest unemployment rates while non-europeans(Iraq eading the stats) have the highest.

Approximate averages(2001-2005):

Sweden: 16 %
Norway: 14 %
Estonia: 17 %
Poland: 15 %
Great Britain: 13 %
Germany: 11 %
Chinese: 10 %

Somalians: 60 %
Maroccon: 47 %
Turks: 30 %
Serbian: 55 %
Afgans: 68 %
Iraq: 70 %

[Veritas]

Can one call me a racist when my beliefs and ideals are based upon proven facts and statistics about this particular problem?

Considering you can use the exact same statistics to "prove" blacks in America are stupider, more violent, etc. etc., absolutely. The problem isn't necessarily the people themselves, it's the conditions they're put it, the attitudes they're subjected to (people like yourself looking down on them), and a whole host of other environmental factors.

I'm certain that you'll find the poor commit those crimes at approximately the same rate. Obviously the poor are bringing down us middle class folk!!!!

[Clawbug]

Can one call me a racist when my beliefs and ideals are based upon proven facts and statistics about this particular problem?

Considering you can use the exact same statistics to "prove" blacks in America are stupider, more violent, etc. etc., absolutely. The problem isn't necessarily the people themselves, it's the conditions they're put it, the attitudes they're subjected to (people like yourself looking down on them), and a whole host of other environmental factors.

I'm certain that you'll find the poor commit those crimes at approximately the same rate. Obviously the poor are bringing down us middle class folk!!!!

In Finland average immigrant gets more support(financial) from the government than a Finnish student. The conditions aren't to blame the numbers here.

In Finland no one can really be poor either, if not because of paying back loans, and to get some loan one needs to have a job and good record of being trustworthy towards the bank. So at some point "life has been good" anyway.

[Demonic]

Clawbug, read Freakonomics. Thanks.

[Clawbug]

Clawbug, read Freakonomics. Thanks.

What is it? Where can I get it? Why should I? What is it about?

[Demonic]

Steal it or ask Santa to drop it off early.

It's an economists view of issues that are not normally related to his matter of expertise, but with his approach a lot of things get a whole new light shed upon them. One of the mostly cited part is explaining how the great crime wave of New York was cut back mainly because abortion being legalised a good decade earlier, which meant that the next generation of criminals weren't even born to replace the ones that got put in the slacker in the meantime.

It also explains what Veritas was hinting at, that your surroundings and economic status mostly determine if you end up as a respectable column of society or a gang scumbag who passes time raping women and putting his knife up other people's nasal cavities.

[ds dude]

What I want to know, is why does it matter?

How can this be a BAD thing?

[-Major-]

What I want to know, is why does it matter?

How can this be a BAD thing?

BECAUSE, Islam people dress like shit.

[LtKillroy]

More people--> More government assistance plans, crime rate, working for less money, etc. Or at least that's the thought. I think it is usually short term and over hyped because people hate change.

[The Geologist]

What I want to know, is why does it matter?

How can this be a BAD thing?

BECAUSE, Islam people dress like s**t.

Who the fuck are you, the fashion police?  You probably look like someone who can't dress themselves from the perspective of someone else.  If it was a joke, it was a lame one, I'll give ya that much.  But you should only be stupid for so long.

[-Major-]

What I want to know, is why does it matter?

How can this be a BAD thing?

BECAUSE, Islam people dress like s**t.

Who the f**k are you, the fashion police?  You probably look like someone who can't dress themselves from the perspective of someone else.  If it was a joke, it was a lame one, I'll give ya that much.  But you should only be stupid for so long.

I am serious, how the hell can you think this is good looking?
http://aycu24.webshots.com/image/20143/2000351886783764951_rs.jpg

[Clawbug]

More people--> More government assistance plans, crime rate, working for less money, etc. Or at least that's the thought. I think it is usually short term and over hyped because people hate change.

Romanians have been living in Finland for hundreds(500) of years, yet their unemployment rates are way higher than for Finns. Basically they don't go to school or work, just live off by the support from government. Heres a picture: http://www.saasta.fi/saasta/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/normal_p9020632.jpg
It won't tell much for non-Finns but let me translate: "Rainer Friman got his "tribebrothers"(not meant to be serious in this context) hatred thrown at him when he said that Romanians should integrate to Finnish society, go work and start studying. This then according to Miranda Vuoriranta, would completely threaten Romanian culture in Finland".

More about Romanians in Finland: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_Kale discussing their unemployment and educational rates.

What I want to know, is why does it matter?

How can this be a BAD thing?

First of all, crime rates are going up. Average immigrant is much more likely to commit a crime than a native citizen as I've shown in me earlier post.

Government has to support all of them financially(provide housing and pay for it, pay them some money, possibly pay (part of) some bills etc.), but way more than government has to support native person.

There's clear distnictions between the people and where they are from. Europeans seem to be the least troublemakers, while the troublemakers are Muslims almost without a doubt. Yes, there can be tons of reasons but no reason can justify it, since there is no reason to take them in the first place(Other than our great EU basically giving limits which must be met in immigrancy every year).

So yeah, immigrants' well-being happens at the native peoples' and government's expense. It's like giving some of our well-being away for others to take, which I dislike greatly when they(some immigrants) have no intentions to provide/contribute anything back. No school, no job, just living off as a larva of the system.

How is this NOT a bad thing?
 
BTW: I'm waiting for croat1gamer to finish the numbers. Someone else? If not, I'll do it myself then. Just finding absurd that people are closing their eyes from these kinds of facts. There's no right or wrong in this "debate", no winner or loser. Just sharing thougts and information, hence I really wonder why would someone "back off" from the discussion, especially after what I posted.

[MyiEye]

Haha this topic made me laugh so thank you guys, but wow could it more racist?

[jrgp]

What I want to know, is why does it matter?

How can this be a BAD thing?

BECAUSE, Islam people dress like s**t.

Who the f**k are you, the fashion police?  You probably look like someone who can't dress themselves from the perspective of someone else.  If it was a joke, it was a lame one, I'll give ya that much.  But you should only be stupid for so long.

I am serious, how the hell can you think this is good looking?
http://aycu24.webshots.com/image/20143/2000351886783764951_rs.jpg

You can tell by the creases and seems that she has nice tits..

Seriously though, I highly doubt all of them would still where the traditional clothing.

could it more racist?

No, which is why I'm seriously considering locking it if all hell starts breaking loose.

[croat1gamer]

Ok, clawbug, can you tell me your final solution to that problem.

Also, i am not speaking how a bigger percentage of immigrants is doing crimes, but how you are placing all the immigrants in the same group, no matter if they did or didnt made a crime.

Someone mentioned black people in the US, so if it would be that there is a bigger percentage of black people doing crimes than white people doing crimes, what would that mean for you?

[STM1993]

There's nothing wrong with immigrants unless they decide to be parasites (eg: not working, committing crimes, sparking conflict) and not obey the local values. Being unable to fit in socially is fine if they don't cause trouble - I'm sure there are people who don't seem to fit in with the rest but aren't creating any trouble.

As for that picture, that'd be considered an attractive woman and I don't see anything wrong with that fashion either. It's just a traditional costume that you may not see around Western countries, but maybe more common in some areas in Asia and the Middle East.

[numgun]

Immigrants divide into two groups:
Civil people
******s.

And those ******s stole my bike. From a locked shed. And the bike was tied with a metal chain to a metal rack that the bike was hanging on. I mean what the f**k.

The way some of the immigrants (the ******s) behave themselves is the problem here because they've got their own ways and religions and their own style of doing things that clashes with the ones of the country they are immigrating. Then the other side of the problem is the native people that look at the immigrants as unknown aliens and thus they develop rasicm that keeps growing endlessly as they keep hating, the ******s keep doing criminal s**t and this loop keeps going to hell.

All we can do is hope that the next generations wont keep being rasict at immigrants and immigrants would be more adaptive and understanding to the new country they're moving into.

Also: s**t parenting.


EDIT: Can I turn off the swear filter for myself? I cant seem to find an option for it.