ctf_Laos (updated version avaivable)

[Wraithlike]

Known Issues:

• Change name to Laos2 or something?
• Collider on lower route should be middle
• Medic spawns?

Feel free to post new issues, and discuss the current ones.

Fixed version: Overview, updated in new beta version.

[As de Espada]

I think that the bridges should be more "solid like". I could swear I could shoot through them.
The chads are not intuitive... you don't know where you can pass and where you can't...

[Suowarrior]

In my opinion this map never really needed gameplay update.

By keeping the polygons exactly the same as and just making look update would do a good compromise.

That way we could please both the community and newcomers.

[jrgp]

By keeping the polygons exactly the same as and just making look update would do a good compromise.

What about removing/changing the slightly useless boxes that are right in front of the entrance to both bases?

[Suowarrior]

What about removing/changing the slightly useless boxes that are right in front of the entrance to both bases

Someone might have always used them for something boosting for example. If they are slightly useless, the doesnt matter so they can hang out there in future too

[chaways]

imo. just change a entrace from both sides of the bottom, cus it`s too small.

Rest should be normal, was better.

[Boots]

Worst change ever, should keep the original.

[F r i T Z]

I prefere to keep the original than this new version.

[As de Espada]

I prefer the original version too... it was a popular map, and didn't have any major issues

[jerich]

Hard to see bg color
The huts are rather annoying

And Suo, when you talk about the look update, I was hoping the author would keep the original layout and maybe a few shading here and there, and maybe a touchup on a bit of scenery, but it looks like a completely different map.

Please keep the original, at least for nostalgia sakes.

[zakath]

Latest version. playable at #soldat.mapping
Update:
- No huts
- Fixed fps

[Illuminatus]

way better!

[Devastated Mind]

In my opinion this map never really needed gameplay update.

By keeping the polygons exactly the same as and just making look update would do a good compromise.

That way we could please both the community and newcomers.

Agreed. The current remake-version is still for the looks only. The old map was fun to play, why change it. In the remake we basically have a totally leveled Laos, with (way too) regular small hills in the ground. The gameplay is more average due to the faster pace and the defaulted, smoothened polys. In the old version the low route was simply the best alt route in the whole game. I had some of the most intense 1on1 battles in CTF3on3 down there and awesome caps can happen there. The top route was nice since the spray fix of 1.4 (until then it was a bit annoying because esp. the red base could be sprayed easily). It has a classic feeling to it and I'm sure most of the community remember the good old days of when it was default and have a tear rolling down their face seeing what is happening to it :<.

Btw don't remove the spaces in the rocks that float before the bases. The one close to alpha base was kinda useless, but the one near bravo base actually IS used by some players. I don't like to see the classic details removed.

[As de Espada]

could you plz post the new version here?
lower route could have a little more scenerys (I can't seem them well from the OV =/)
those huts were the major problem of the remake, maybe now this will be more popular...

I agree that the lower route was the best alt route in the entire game, now it's kind of a walk in the park...

[Suowarrior]

could you plz post the new version here?

Updated download link at the WL's opening.
edit: just checked I linked only .pms file, now its linked into rar

[jerich]

The land under the two floating polygons is much linear than the original version, I know you guys want more speed and making it easier to maneuver, but you're also increasing the chances of making it more spray friendly and people sitting at the top of the hill ricocheting bullets onto players trying to climb up.

[biohazard]

Latest version. playable at #soldat.mapping
Update:
- No huts
- Fixed fps

How is that way to fix fps? removing some scenaries?

[zakath]

Latest version. playable at #soldat.mapping
Update:
- No huts
- Fixed fps

How is that way to fix fps? removing some scenaries?

low fps derivate from one main thing and that is transparency or rather semi-transparency.
which in soldat maps means:
- png scenery
- fading polygons

Other sources of low fps can be
stacking a lot of sceneries/polygons on top of each other.
haveing sceneries in "front" meaning it will be heavier calculations for when there is bullets/explosions.

So what has been done here and what will be done on all maps.
- no png scenery only bmp scenery.
- no faded polygons.

[Boots]

Remove the health packs that are in the alt route and up top. Just keep them at bases. Overwise there will be more campers low.

Other than that, I like it now.

[As de Espada]

Remove the health packs that are in the alt route and up top. Just keep them at bases. Overwise there will be more campers low.

Other than that, I like it now.

Totally agree with him. Medkits after the flag were a very interesting thing in laos, you'll have to choose if you would pick them, loosing time but winning health, or just run away the fast as possible.

[Boots]

I think the mappers should stop trying to make public servers more pleasing with the overhaul of scenery's and health packs.

[SpankyTank]

In my opinion this map never really needed gameplay update.

By keeping the polygons exactly the same as and just making look update would do a good compromise.

That way we could please both the community and newcomers.

The problem is we're not pleased with the way it looks. You're right, this is no where near due for a game play update, and I would argue a fair amount of people agree that it isn't really in need of a complete makeover. Adding Siddhartha to the map and getting rid of the polygons in the middle for weird huts? The window idea underneath the huts is an interesting idea, but keep it looking the same and make changes that fit the theme, then test it.
And it's cool how you smoothed the polygons and all, but point edges don't really bother me unless they protrude from somewhere ridiculous, in my opinion, it makes game play faster, but that's just me.

[zakath]

I think the mappers should stop trying to make public servers more pleasing with the overhaul of scenery's and health packs.

Remove the health packs that are in the alt route and up top. Just keep them at bases. Overwise there will be more campers low.

Remove the health packs that are in the alt route and up top. Just keep them at bases. Overwise there will be more campers low.

Other than that, I like it now.

Other than that, I like it now.

Totally agree with him. Medkits after the flag were a very interesting thing in laos, you'll have to choose if you would pick them, loosing time but winning health, or just run away the fast as possible.

removing medikits from behing the flag forces the flagger in stalemates to move outside the spawn area(where he is fairly safe because teammates can spawn and regrab the flag if he dies) to go forward into the map takeing a risk to get a medikit.
medikits more towards the middle also aids escape and makes attacking more easier. As you can regain health on the way towards the flag/capping.

[Boots]

I disagree.

[PQ]

I can never find medkits when playing the new version of Laos. (medic kits at the upper route always get bugged cause they're placed on a inclined plane [did someone post this bug on the bug tracker already?])

And I don't really like that the attacker is just able to get full health even if you've shot him to 10% health just before you died mid-map.

[zakath]

I can never find medkits when playing the new version of Laos. (medic kits at the upper route always get bugged cause they're placed on a inclined plane [did someone post this bug on the bug tracker already?])

And I don't really like that the attacker is just able to get full health even if you've shot him to 10% health just before you died mid-map.

You have to take in mind though that when you are the efc running with the flag gettings sprayed from the behind those medikits will help you.

[Boots]

Thats what makes Laos funner, running away with 20% health, and heroing the match.

[Poop]

Im going to simply suggest that the Laos remake be abondoned. While I initially liked this remake, after playing it in several 3v3's, I have noticed that the gameplay is not really improved (Its worst due to the smoothed out polygons), and the fact that there is very significant disapproval against this map simply tells me that this is one of maps that should be restored to its original form.

There are changes that can be made to the original that help its gameplay, such as making entrances into the base from low wider.

[Bugs Revenge]

I prefere to keep the original than this new version.

Agreed,
you can't just replace one of the best map soldat is based on ^^

[As de Espada]

I think that laos it's the key of the remakes rejections.
I'll try to make an hybrid version (old shape, new looks)

[Boots]

Good luck, I can't wait to see it. Before going on and making the map, maybe discuss with some experienced players on what game play changes could be made.

[As de Espada]

Good luck, I can't wait to see it. Before going on and making the map, maybe discuss with some experienced players on what game play changes could be made.

there will be NO gameplay changes

[Boots]

I ment simple things like Poop discussed.

[CheeSeMan.]

FFS NOBODY LIKES U TRYING TO CHANGE THE PERFECT AND NICELY MADE AND BEAUTIFUL LAOS PLEASE STOP THIS BULLs**t NOW. HOW CAN WE MAKE U UNDERSTAND THAT THESE MAPS ARE NOT GOING TO WORK? HOW CAN U THINK U UNDERSTAND GAMEPLAY? INC HAD 90 LOSSES LAST SCTFL?? IF U UNDERSTOOD GAME U'D WIN SOMETHING!  SOME OF YOUR POSTS ARE RIDICULOUS.

CAPSLOCK SHOWS MY INDULGENCE AND REPULSE KK?

Every time you make an update your just going closer to the original and still no one is happy... U FEEL ME?

Everytime some one posts why you have fucked them up... its "No man thats not good gameplay I R KNOWLEDGE AND NOES HOW SOLDATZ shud BE PLAYED!" "Well... Thats not my opinion" "Your just an old vet raging cos u wont be able to ownz nibz!"

FACT: Old maps are sexier and gameplay is better. If you want to tweak some little things in them then thats the best way to do it. Not remaking the whole map to a hulky piece of crapness and then slowly reverting it back to original.

[L[0ne]R]

New Laos (latest version) is good and totally playable. If this was original Laos - I highly doubt anyone would complain whine.
Small polygon changes here and there and a collider moved a few pixels to the side won't ruin the gameplay. In the end it all depends on players' skills.

[Suowarrior]

No bashing allowed in mapping forums. For such action you'll be awarded with warning. Congrats Cheeseman!

[CheeSeMan.]

Look man :E i was just trying another method... the general opinion of these maps is that the community for the most part does not like them. Therefore, i do not comprehend why you guys keep trying to change them. There have been long posts detailing why they will not work... now what else can we do but shout.

There is a much simplier way to make everyone feel better: Replace maps that are currently bad with new ones, why trying to change ones that are already great :E Like what you have done with snakebite this is great: but Laos never needed any editing... If laos wasn't a good map it never would have been the default map in cws for so long. For instance Lanubya why don't you remove it and make something completely different and better...

Really I just fail to understand why none of you can comprehend that these maps will not be liked... Really man what do you want that will make you change your mind.

Post a poll look at the outcome you will see...

like i said u have no regard for people's opinion's other than your own and i was just trying to show you what i will predict will happen when this version will be released.

[Dusty]

CheeSeMan I feel you..... I've been thinking the exact same thing for the past days.

[CheeSeMan.]

I would really like to see more people on the beta team, a handful of competitive and public players that do not make maps.

I feel this would help the development of the maps hugely, as our input would be felt more. Or atleast when it comes down to it that it is not SuoW/Zakath decided the results in the end.

[Geoffrey]

Just stop trying to update Laos for no reason. Doesn't need it and never did. Close the thread, cancel the update, keep the original in the maplist and move onto other maps.

[Suowarrior]

CheeSeMan I do understand your consern. I've played this game like 5-6 years, since 1.1.5. I've also played competitive since SCTFL3. I do love original Laos, it's bottom route is my favourite alt in the game.

Let's play again game called facts:

Fact: Mappers tend to see their own work better than others (at least when playtesting it the first 1-5 times). I could name easily like 4-5 maps by me that are worth default, but that's just my sight :S. To be honest, that fact affected on me backdays when I deeply wanted one my map being default. Then we got X, hurrey! But don't blame on me about it

That's reason why it's problematic to have creator of map in map selection.

Fact: Competitive players don't want to see their favourite map being replaced, even if the map is better and being more potential, they tend blindly vote for old.

If you decide by first sight that new version suck, then only thing in your mind while playing it, is that everything just suck. In the end you never actually give chance for the new map.

About Laos remake: I don't have anything against changes in top, easier movement would do good. I prefer much more original medic placing and original Laos bottom. The looks are great. Anyway, I'd still say no for this, but let's see the next improvement.

[biohazard]

I luved the curved edge, like the alt route entry... the gameplay does not changed(else for the useless things) at all, and for the visual things, actually i use blacktextures with the lowest of the low confgs, so i dont care. Well, i used to hate that buda...

[Meteorisch]

Please keep the old Laos, new version really sucks ballz.

[jerich]

Fact: Competitive players don't want to see their favourite map being replaced, even if the map is better and being more potential, they tend blindly vote for old.

Fact: Competitive players don't want to see their favourite map being replaced, they tend blindly to vote for the old.
Opinion: Even if the map is better and has more potential.

Heres some fact for you, people rush to make default map modifications with intent to get famous.
And they modificate maps they don't like, because of either it's looks or layout.

Some people just want to make better maps for the default, to make the game more pleasant. I don't get how you get famous exactly.

Then theres other people who love the map, but would love more if it was more like a (his own made)
He starts editing it, does unnecessary changes.. Rapes the map with overdone "theme sceneries" that
are luckily approved by someone responsible of this s**tfiltering, then get credit of the map he himself treasures like hell.

With the modified default maps, a lot has been overdone. The ones people seem to like is the new Snakebite. Why? Because it isn't overdone and simple and its concentrated to make better GAMEPLAY. Even with that dumb looking snake.


----
We want a new feel to the game, and modifying maps for looks is the wrong direction since Soldat has never aimed to be a glamor game. Removing the least played maps and giving a chance for new maps like Coolbya or whatever is offered is a better approach in my opinion.

Think of it this way, if all you're doing is replacing the looks of the map and does nothing to gameplay, it's like doing an update for a soldat interface change. It is nothing but eye candy and serves no other purpose.

[Geoffrey]

Yeah exactly. People were happy when cool new maps came in like Guardian etc. When you start pointlessly changing the already lovely maps people are gonna be pissed off.

Just give us new maps that are of a high standard instead of trying to remake old ones. The only tweaks to old maps should be bug fixes, not beautification.

[As de Espada]

can you post the .pms of the fixed version here?

[CheeSeMan.]

CheeSeMan I do understand your consern. I've played this game like 5-6 years, since 1.1.5. I've also played competitive since SCTFL3. I do love original Laos, it's bottom route is my favourite alt in the game.

Let's play again game called facts:

Fact: Mappers tend to see their own work better than others (at least when playtesting it the first 1-5 times). I could name easily like 4-5 maps by me that are worth default, but that's just my sight :S. To be honest, that fact affected on me backdays when I deeply wanted one my map being default. Then we got X, hurrey! But don't blame on me about it

That's reason why it's problematic to have creator of map in map selection.

Fact: Competitive players don't want to see their favourite map being replaced, even if the map is better and being more potential, they tend blindly vote for old.

If you decide by first sight that new version suck, then only thing in your mind while playing it, is that everything just suck. In the end you never actually give chance for the new map.

About Laos remake: I don't have anything against changes in top, easier movement would do good. I prefer much more original medic placing and original Laos bottom. The looks are great. Anyway, I'd still say no for this, but let's see the next improvement.

I have played since v1.1.4 and Laos has never been a map that has caused any problems when being played in any version... Really I cannot see what is wrong with it, their is no problems moving on it, and there isn't a side with a distinctive advantage.

And yes one of my major concerns is that the people who are making these maps are the people making the major decision's about what should stay and what should go; I believe that the decision's would be better made by players that did not make the map and have only played it. Im sure the mapper who made Lanubya thought it was the hottest map ever, but most player's hate it.

[Suowarrior]

And yes one of my major concerns is that the people who are making these maps are the people making the major decision's about what should stay and what should go.

In case of my map/modification. I won't be participating in final vote, problem solved.

I'm sure that mappers have always worked like this: mappers suggest maps, and other beta players decide to take or not to take them in. I'm pretty sure it happened in Lanubya case too. It's new way to suggest in public beta though.

[Geoffrey]

Will zakath have a say in the final vote though? I was under the impression that he made many adjustments to these maps himself.

[As de Espada]

IF this is going to be default, at least don't make a normal polys seems like a bridge.
Just don't let any background on sight and it will be OK