inf_Belltower

[Suowarrior]

New map in beta 1.5.1

[Crimson Goth]

I think red spawns should be parachute. Blue spawnkill alot on this map.

[Poop]

Like I mentioned previously, its important to consider pubs when deciding which infiltration maps should be default. While a 3v3 with clan players might make this map balanced (Because they can strategize and develop good tactics), in pubs it is simply WAY TOO EASY to cap on this map. I don't think this is a good default for that reason.

[zakath]

Like I mentioned previously, its important to consider pubs when deciding which infiltration maps should be default. While a 3v3 with clan players might make this map balanced (Because they can strategize and develop good tactics), in pubs it is simply WAY TOO EASY to cap on this map. I don't think this is a good default for that reason.

A teams lack of teamwork isn't imho really a reason to discard a map. Also all those big default infiltration maps where a good bravo team tend to always win is imho the prime reason for infiltration being unpopular. what infiltration needs are fast action paced maps that require teamwork. so what me and suow are visioning for infiltration are smaller 3vs3 maps that you can play gather/cws on ie maps like this one.

[Poop]

Like I mentioned previously, its important to consider pubs when deciding which infiltration maps should be default. While a 3v3 with clan players might make this map balanced (Because they can strategize and develop good tactics), in pubs it is simply WAY TOO EASY to cap on this map. I don't think this is a good default for that reason.

A teams lack of teamwork isn't imho really a reason to discard a map. Also all those big default infiltration maps where a good bravo team tend to always win is imho the prime reason for infiltration being unpopular. what infiltration needs are fast action paced maps that require teamwork. so what me and suow are visioning for infiltration are smaller 3vs3 maps that you can play gather/cws on ie maps like this one.

Just because its fast paced does not mean it will be popular amongst the clan scene. If that were true than you would see clanplayers playing TDM and DM. I can assure you with 100% guarantee that fast paced infiltration maps will not make infiltration any more popular for clanplayers. Nobody is going to play infiltration clanwars. And besides, I think this logic is a bit foolish, I would rather be making the maps based on what the situation is currently, not what I anticipate the situation will be if we make changes A B and C (And it seems that this anticipated situation is what you would prefer it to be).

Infiltration maps should be suited towards public servers, because that is where all the infiltration action takes place. This map is quite simply bad for the infiltration scene.

And to be honest, I don't think you really play infiltration too much just reading your last few posts, because whenever I am playing I never saw bravo winning all the time. Infact, the last soldat event I ran which involved infiltration had a pretty even mix of alpha and bravo winning (And this was with clanplayers in 4v4 situation).

[Suowarrior]

Fastpaced isn't the thing itself. Being fastpaced it can be unique to other inf maps. We have already like 10 big inf maps, having a few smaller maps with different unique possibilities won't do bad.

I do agree that at the moment public is the main inf scene, and it should be thought when considerating maps default. However map should be fun at 3on3 and 4on4 too, since well the public servers aren't full all the time and it could help a miracle happening that we might have inf cws in future. Actually I don't understand you saying "Nobody is going to play inf cws". It's future to show us.

I disagree with zakath that most of current default maps can't be fun at 3on3. Imo there are two completely bad maps in the maplist: Messner and Rescue, then Abel and Outpost feel also prefering defender too much & being damn boring to attack and Argy prefering attacker. The rest maps are fine for me.

To say something connected to topic. To be honest, I've seen many first timers playing this map, they just tend to aim stypidly for alpha spawns while alpha players are stealing the flag. However it's challenging but possible even for public to defend the flag, defending is very simple there after all.

[zakath]

Like I mentioned previously, its important to consider pubs when deciding which infiltration maps should be default. While a 3v3 with clan players might make this map balanced (Because they can strategize and develop good tactics), in pubs it is simply WAY TOO EASY to cap on this map. I don't think this is a good default for that reason.

A teams lack of teamwork isn't imho really a reason to discard a map. Also all those big default infiltration maps where a good bravo team tend to always win is imho the prime reason for infiltration being unpopular. what infiltration needs are fast action paced maps that require teamwork. so what me and suow are visioning for infiltration are smaller 3vs3 maps that you can play gather/cws on ie maps like this one.

Just because its fast paced does not mean it will be popular amongst the clan scene. If that were true than you would see clanplayers playing TDM and DM. I can assure you with 100% guarantee that fast paced infiltration maps will not make infiltration any more popular for clanplayers. Nobody is going to play infiltration clanwars. And besides, I think this logic is a bit foolish, I would rather be making the maps based on what the situation is currently, not what I anticipate the situation will be if we make changes A B and C (And it seems that this anticipated situation is what you would prefer it to be).

Infiltration maps should be suited towards public servers, because that is where all the infiltration action takes place. This map is quite simply bad for the infiltration scene.

And to be honest, I don't think you really play infiltration too much just reading your last few posts, because whenever I am playing I never saw bravo winning all the time. Infact, the last soldat event I ran which involved infiltration had a pretty even mix of alpha and bravo winning (And this was with clanplayers in 4v4 situation).

I haven't played so much recently(last couple of weeks) before that I played infiltration gathers daily, dm/tdm isn't as popular because there are no other objective other then just plain killing each other(however tdm is apparently popular in brazil). And imho your logic is flawed, you want infiltration to stay the same where I want to make it more popular.

[Poop]

I want to improve infiltration for the people that actually play it right now, instead of improving it for the people that do not play it but hoping that those people will actually come in. This is why I said not to change rescue and to add highlands. Those are suggestions that will improve infiltration for the current infiltration scene.

dm/tdm isn't as popular because there are no other objective other then just plain killing each other(however tdm is apparently popular in brazil)

My point was that if clanplayers and the clanscene was really attracted to only fast paced play, then you would see clanplayers playing DM and TDM, which they don't. TDM especially, since its fast paced, tactical and team oriented. The last few TDM tournaments failed miserably, just like any attempt at an infiltration tournament would fail miserably, even with maps like these (If clanplayers even find them fun which I am doubting). CTF is the most played gamemode because its the easiest to balance for both sides and you can do whatever the f**k you want to help your team (Rush defend kill), in infiltration people are forced to either defend or rush, and that is what many people do not like. Smaller maps will not change that at all.