ctf_Division

[Suowarrior]

Original

[DarkCrusade]

I suggest my remake for lack of visuals on this map, I could work some more on the background scenery and remove all .PNG I used and it would be fine.

Link

[Biggles]

I suggest dissing your map and stick with the current division, your visual remake is annoying me.

[Suowarrior]

I suggest dissing your map and stick with the current division, your visual remake is annoying me.

Agreed. That's completely meh distracting all the way, too much bg crap.

I wonder if someone disagrees with me and biggles in this case.

[Illuminatus]

I wonder if someone disagrees with me and biggles in this case.

Me.

[DarkCrusade]

Dudes, I told you that I´d edit the scenery I used in this map, no need to talk about "background crap" and stuff. Also please mind that my version of Division is not only a visual upgrade but gameplay upgrade. More to see what and how on the overview.

[biohazard]

What is the problem with itself gameplay? I dont like that much this map, but i dont figure any major insues...

[Dusty]

blah blah

The map never needed a gameplay update. Also your remix looks like crap.

[jerich]

Dudes, I told you that I´d edit the scenery I used in this map, no need to talk about "background crap" and stuff. Also please mind that my version of Division is not only a visual upgrade but gameplay upgrade. More to see what and how on the overview.

Gameplay downgrade. The health on the top route just asks for spawnkilling and nade spamming. Also, from spawn to top is a MUCH more smooth in terms of route shifting in the original than your remake. Another map that is super dark. The original map is fine as it is.

[Blue-ninja]

There IS visuals in the subletly of this map. You just passively notice it.

[L[0ne]R]

What's your problem, people Dusty and Boots? You should at least have some respect DarkCrusade and his work.
Your comments aren't "critique" - it's bitching.

I have to agree with some things about the sceneries, but overall it's a not a bad remake. I still prefer original Division (it looks and plays nice as it is, there's no need to change much), but remake with some fixes would make a decent custom map too.

I think original Division could use some minor balance improvements - Bravo's positions seem much more vulnerable - the routes on their side are more straight and have much less cover than red side does. Other than that I have nothing against keeping the original map.

[Suowarrior]

I'm sure alot of soldat players would agree these maps don't need remakes.

Yes, no doubt. I agree too, and this remake isn't the only case.

[Biggles]

I´m sure a lot of soldat players would also like to see a remake. Sharing your opinion is no problem at all, the way you do it makes the deal. Sit down and think about yourself. How do you appeal to others? What do they feel if you say this? You are insensitive in a way that hurts other peoples feeling and you cover it as critique what I dislike about your manner and others will agree with me.

Yes some people like remakes, but I'd bet most public players! but not even the public players like when the map becomes uglier. I'm not being rude, I'm just honest, you have to work a lot on that map before it's in the same level as the current division. Note that I'm not saying you should not remake division but that your version is not enough yet.
So maybe you should continue working on it, but it'll take some time.

[biohazard]

wow men some1 call a moderator to clean up this topic? Focus on maps...

[Suowarrior]

wow men some1 call a moderator to clean up this topic? Focus on maps...

Cleaned, make a topic somewhere else to raise your friendship.

[DarkCrusade]

Cleaned, make a topic somewhere else to raise your friendship.

Thanks for that, I guess there won´t be any further discussion (... I hope so).

[Horve]

Your maps are crap, DC, get over it. You haven't made a decent map in ever and i'm not whistling dixie. Division is adequate, for now. Boxo never asked me to work on his maps after ctf_steel much, I guess we've both been busy. His choice to use icicles.bmp is terrible and the texture isn't stretched in any possible place, the texture looks inappropriate and it lacks any form of scenery sufficiency. But the current Division is approved by me, lay off it. Not yours, liverlips, boxo's.

[L[0ne]R]

Your maps are crap, DC, get over it. You haven't made a decent map in ever and i'm not whistling dixie.

Yes you are. Take a look at Kampf remake?
A plenty of his other maps aren't bad either.

[DarkCrusade]

Horve, I agree with you that the current state of my remake of Division is horrible, but this isn´t changing the fact that you are pathetic. Refer to this map or stay out of this topic (talking about spam). As it seems like you think I am spamming up the forums I had a laugh on your post. Thanks Horve, you made my day, for the very first time 

[Horve]

Your maps are crap, DC, get over it. You haven't made a decent map in ever and i'm not whistling dixie.

Yes you are. Take a look at Kampf remake?
A plenty of his other maps aren't bad either.

Excuse me, but didn't ctf_kampf already exist before the remake? I understand that it is excruciatingly painful and extremely difficult to remake a map without changing a darndest thing except for the gamma, some shading and colours. Especially when the initial polygon count and the size of the whole thing was small to begin with. Does that mean that it is sufficient to smack some paint on it and call it a day? As far as I'm concerned, there is nothing extraordinary about the Kampf remake at all. Anyone could make that, just look at duz's version of it. Remaking maps isn't even mapping yet, it is nothing.
[ Unnecessary trolling. Don't do it again - Keron ] I've not stated that I am better than you, I've stated that your lack of everything creates an illusion that this is the best the "mappers" can create.

If what this "mapper" has been releasing is sufficient to please the community, mapping is going to have be pronounced dead. Might as well add dominik's awesome projects to the next soldat version just to put the flowers to the grave. Why should I care anyway, right? Of course all of you know better.

[Suowarrior]

Cleaned, make a topic somewhere else to raise your friendship.

- Horve's message stays, even though it's misplaced (--> ctf_Kampf topic) and has some crap in it, it's partly related maps.

Original Division stays, post new versions or report bugs or suggest something to improve the map. Do not try insult each other and see who got most backup in forum. Next poster that doesn't relate Division in any way will be warned.

[Shard]

Dark Crusades maps keep on being better then the originals, I like your style. People say that his Division is too dark, bur really, we don't have many dark maps, its fresh.

[DarkCrusade]

Dark Crusades maps keep on being better then the originals, I like your style. People say that his Division is too dark, bur really, we don't have many dark maps, its fresh.

Problem is, that there are many old players that are conservative, but they are this hard core Soldat needs to have a static community. I acknowledged that most people want more small changes over time than fresh remakes.

[Dusty]

Only a tiny minority of the competitive scene wants more than just bugfixes.

[Suowarrior]

One gameplay update that I see welcomed is couple new scenery in front of players. It would make it more tactical as Division is lacking this scenery hiding tactic completely.

[DarkCrusade]

Don´t touch the scenery on ctf_Division. There are enough places that you can hide at and if you´d join the community of Hide and Seek you´d see where you can hide but it needs practice. Division is perfect as it is.

[Suowarrior]

Dunno about hide and seek community. But for normal ctf there aren't any places to hide.

[DarkCrusade]

You need to know how you can hide. It requires skills to do this on Division and that´s why I think this map is cool as it is. Maybe you should try it on your own, I don´t want to go into detail, you can hide at the middle route, both sides. Also in the spawn base of both teams. You don´t need more

[Dusty]

I can't help facepalming every time I see your posts.

#1 There's no time to hide
#2 Even if you manage to hide yourself completely which is - as far as I know - impossible, there's always someone who can count to three.

SuoW, why should every map have the possibility to hide? Keep thinking that way and we'll find ourselves stuck with twenty identical maps.

[DarkCrusade]

I can't help facepalming every time I see your posts.

#1 There's no time to hide
#2 Even if you manage to hide yourself completely which is - as far as I know - impossible, there's always someone who can count to three.

SuoW, why should every map have the possibility to hide? Keep thinking that way and we'll find ourselves stuck with twenty identical maps.

It´s irrelevant for me whether you facepalm or not, you read my posts, that´s all what interests me. In fact I didn´t say you should camp/hide/whatever you want, I just said that you CAN actually.

[Suowarrior]

DC I meant to add sneaky scenery that have use for the play even in competitive play. I mean adding some small bush sized scenery both top center and bottom center, where players can use it for sneaky purpose.

SuoW, why should every map have the possibility to hide? Keep thinking that way and we'll find ourselves stuck with twenty identical maps.

It's not touching originality, it's more like bonus tactic in my view. What's better than sneak behind scenery and manage to make a cap, nothing. That thing should be included into all maps that are big enough to have use for sneaky tactics, that's just my opinion which I'm asking for support. If Im not having it, okay lets go without sneaking.

[DarkCrusade]

Center top seems alright, bottom route shouldn´t be touched, though.

[Horve]

why would you want to make division camp-friendly?
It could destroy the whole fluidity of the map, which boxo oh so very carefully explained to me.
Also, the addition of random "sneaky" scenery on a straightforward kill or die map wouldn't make much sense.

[DarkCrusade]

Like he said: for sneaky tactics.

[Dusty]

why would you want to make division camp-friendly?
It could destroy the whole fluidity of the map, which boxo oh so very carefully explained to me.

This. I also believe that Division is just too small hence making it very rare to have a situation in which you don't know where the enemy is.

[Suowarrior]

This. I also believe that Division is just too small hence making it very rare to have a situation in which you don't know where the enemy is.

Sneaking behind boxes is possible at Kampf's boxes in alpha base where the counting should be also easy. Tactic worked multiple times in last sctfl season. So if it works at Kampf, I'd say it can work in Division too.

why would you want to make division camp-friendly?
It could destroy the whole fluidity of the map, which boxo oh so very carefully explained to me.
Also, the addition of random "sneaky" scenery on a straightforward kill or die map wouldn't make much sense.

Word "destroy" was propably hyperball. A few scenery in front would have marginal or no effect on that.

[DarkCrusade]

Why are we discussing? Lets just place some infront scenery and see how the map changes?

[Bistoufly]

There are several polybugs in ctf_Division.
See sreenshots below.

1a and 1b: These polybugs bring you to an halt.
Whether you come from left or right.

2: Additionally, I suggest making the columns slightly transparent. To make a clear visual separation between them and the upper polys.

3: This polybug makes you loose your momentum when coming from the left.


Issues 1, 2 and 3 fixed by As de Espada in ctf_DivisionA

4: Polybug: Ruin your momentum when falling from up.

5: Polybug: Makes you lose your momentum and you get slightly "eaten" by the poly while coming from left or up.



Mantis ticket: http://bugs.soldat.pl/view.php?id=195
ctf_DivisionA: http://bugs.soldat.pl/file_download.php?file_id=337&type=bug