Author Topic: swimming  (Read 6553 times)

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Offline mich1103

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swimming
« on: March 03, 2010, 09:22:21 pm »
ive seen in a couple of map that some people put a scenery to make false water
and make it hurt . why dont make water , the gravity will be the same as the true water and a animation will be repeat to swim ^^

Offline smiluu

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Re: swimming
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2010, 02:20:10 am »
This wouldn't be bad, but I'm afraid people here are afraid of anything that requires effort in coding.

Offline pavliko

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Re: swimming
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2010, 04:17:20 am »
Water? So many new mapping options...
The safest thing to do is jumping out of a plane!

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Re: swimming
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2010, 06:52:20 am »
No. For the sake of Soldats simplicity.

Offline TBDM

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Re: swimming
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2010, 07:26:21 am »
No. For the sake of Soldats simplicity.

Offline smiluu

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Re: swimming
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2010, 08:33:00 am »
Water would be useful in thöörms of balancing routes, if you want some of them to slow people down.
And TBDM, in Soldatforums you either breath heavily or not at all. I mean, stop spamming you fucker.

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: swimming
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2010, 03:27:35 pm »
No. For the sake of Soldats simplicity.
That's exactly what I thought too, but then someone mentioned Quake...
Don't know if you played it, but it had water and yet this game is extremely simple (not even nearly as complex as Soldat).

Liquids won't hurt Soldat at all. On contrary - they'll add some variety (but NOT complexity) to gameplay and allow creation of some really interesting maps.


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Offline Dusty

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Re: swimming
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2010, 03:29:20 pm »

DarkCrusade

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Re: swimming
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2010, 03:31:52 pm »
Soldat is simple. You don´t have like 20000 different weapons, no third dimension. Stuff. And Soldat doesn´t need it.

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: swimming
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2010, 03:36:12 pm »
Soldat is simple. You don´t have like 20000 different weapons, no third dimension. Stuff. And Soldat doesn´t need it.
Liquids are simply areas with different gravity. They won't allow any new crazy features, they'd just slightly change the way you move.
There are things that are way more complex. Liquids are not even close to what you just mentioned.

Besides. Soldat already has physics, ballistics, jets, realistic mode, you can only carry 2 weapons, etc. You have to admit that Soldat is not as simple as you think. And it never really was (except only a few very first versions).

Other than Quake - there are many other examples: Half-Life and many of its mods and add-ons, Doom series, Unreal, Unreal Tournament (1 and 2003). Imagine those games in 2D and you'll see that they're much simpler than Soldat.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 04:01:51 pm by L[0ne]R »


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Offline smiluu

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Re: swimming
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2010, 04:02:13 pm »
People are always afraid of everything new. Darkcrusade too, hes a soldat veteran and has 15 years of experience with
every gimmick and tweak under control to the knowledge of every last detail of psysics and polyworks/maps geography.
Adding something he is not aware about, and thus would subjucate him to the same stantard as noobs when it comes to water
is out of question! While hes trying to give us this impression, deeply inside he doesn't really have any idea of what
he is talking about.

Soldat is simple. You don´t have like 20000 different weapons, no third dimension. Stuff. And Soldat doesn´t need it.
I'm propably first who's telling you this, but youre right. Soldat doesnt need 3D dimensions or 20000 weapons.
But what does that really have anything to do with water? I'd be happy to hear your reasoning on why "complex as water"
would be bad. And you know, Soldat is propably the most complex 2D shooter game in the whole universe already as it is.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 04:05:07 pm by smiluu »

Offline Shard

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Re: swimming
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2010, 11:18:31 am »
Add a polygon type that allows for adjustable gravity, or full up/down/left/right movement control. That would work right?

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: swimming
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2010, 02:15:07 pm »
Add a polygon type that allows for adjustable gravity, or full up/down/left/right movement control. That would work right?
Totally. In fact, this will be a much more "flexible" solution that will allow making more things than just water. I had a similar idea which I suggested in this thread long ago:
http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=35344.0

But in addition to that, there would need to be some minor changes to controls. More specifically - "jump" should change to "swim up", and "crouch" to "swim down" when you're inside liquids.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2010, 02:18:54 pm by L[0ne]R »


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Re: swimming
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2010, 02:51:20 pm »
I laughed when you said I wasn´t opened for new things, Smiluu, since you and Horve awfully hate every new map introduced to Soldat. Where does this mindchange come from? I´m interested.

But just in a way.



I don´t like the idea of floating in water when there are jets and stuff.

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: swimming
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2010, 03:01:55 pm »
I don´t like the idea of floating in water when there are jets and stuff.
"Jets and stuff", can be replaced with one word - gravity. Sure it might seem enough, but again - floating in water instead of falling down to ground can add a good bit of variation to gameplay.
It's not like water will be a major part of gameplay, but I'm sure it'll make maps more interesting.

Yet another example: even some of the original Mario Bros games had water levels. ;O


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Offline smiluu

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Re: swimming
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2010, 06:30:20 pm »
I laughed when you said I wasn´t opened for new things, Smiluu, since you and Horve awfully hate every new map introduced to Soldat. Where does this mindchange come from? I´m interested.
You should understand the difference between unwelcome crap and something that would be a potential newness.

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: swimming
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2010, 06:37:42 pm »
I laughed when you said I wasn´t opened for new things, Smiluu, since you and Horve awfully hate every new map introduced to Soldat. Where does this mindchange come from? I´m interested.
You should understand the difference between unwelcome crap and something that would be a potential newness.
It's all a matter of taste. As you can see for yourself - there are people who see things the other way around - map remakes are considered as "newness", while new features are seen as crap. Some people like both, some - neither.

So let's not focus on what we like or don't and think of what is actually good for the game.

« Last Edit: March 05, 2010, 11:27:33 pm by L[0ne]R »


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Offline Horve

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Re: swimming
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2010, 07:03:38 pm »
I guess some people find water very difficult to comprehend, and imagine in a game. They'd need a f**king manual giving guidelines on how to interact with such an immensely difficult element. As soon as you add water to a game, BOOM, a nuclear holocaust happens and you're suddenly immersed into the world of incomprehensible complexities that would eventually force you to shoot yourself in the face with a shotgun while hanging upside down from a reversed (satanic) cross nailed to it by your feet.

Sarcasm aside, I can't see how water could do any harm to Soldat as an additional feature.

splash Soldat with water and it won't lose it's virginity and simplicity, unless it's hydrophobic like some members (= slang for male genitalia) around here.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2010, 11:33:33 pm by Horve »

Offline Blacksheepboy

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Re: swimming
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2010, 11:15:32 pm »

DarkCrusade

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Re: swimming
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2010, 01:53:07 am »
I don´t like it anyway. Don´t blame me for having an other opinion than you.

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: swimming
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2010, 05:17:59 pm »
I don´t like it anyway. Don´t blame me for having an other opinion than you.
The problem is - there wasn't that much of an opinion. Your opinion sums up to something like "I don't like it", which is not exactly helpful. This is a discussion for a new feature, so personal taste doesn't really count in this case. What matters is if it'll improve the game for all players in general.
Your only argument so far was "it'll take away Soldat's simplicity", but there already are multiple counter-arguments to that. It'll take more than "I don't like it" to prove your point. Otherwise it'll just be ignored.

I'll quote myself:
Let's not focus on what we like or don't, and think of what is actually good for the game.

« Last Edit: March 07, 2010, 05:22:23 pm by L[0ne]R »


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Offline tehsnipah

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Re: swimming
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2010, 09:50:53 pm »
*sigh* Let's not turn this into Counter Strike in 2D
"Prudence is good when pulling the trigger on a heavy firearm. It's all or nothing. So is life, wouldn't you say?"

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: swimming
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2010, 09:53:47 pm »
*sigh* Let's not turn this into Counter Strike in 2D
Isn't it already? ;O
Counter Strike is one of the games Soldat is often compared to.

And what does water have to do with CS anyway? As far as I remember - CS didn't have any maps that had water (not default ones at least).


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Offline tehsnipah

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Re: swimming
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2010, 09:55:48 pm »
Obviously, but I'm saying, let's not push it further that line.

And are you kidding?! Surf maps frequently have water throughout the map to land without damage. Maybe not those ordinary modes, but yes, water is still used in CS.
"Prudence is good when pulling the trigger on a heavy firearm. It's all or nothing. So is life, wouldn't you say?"

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: swimming
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2010, 10:04:56 pm »
Obviously, but I'm saying, let's not push it further that line.

And are you kidding?! Surf maps frequently have water throughout the map to land without damage. Maybe not those ordinary modes, but yes, water is still used in CS.
That's a mod though. In normal mode water doesn't play that much of a role. And I'd expect the same to happen in Soldat - water would be another nice feature for some maps and mods, but it won't be a major part of the normal gameplay.

What "line" are you talking about? What exactly do you think will hurt Soldat and what will it become?
I want to understand how your logic works and why do you come to a conclusion that water will ruin Soldat. So far I only see you imagining things and no facts. :/
« Last Edit: March 07, 2010, 10:12:07 pm by L[0ne]R »


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Offline tehsnipah

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Re: swimming
« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2010, 11:14:08 pm »
This "line" I am staying: players are frequently mistaking this game with Counter Strike, making quite redundant/unnecessary suggestions. I think water won't work well in Soldat, because now it needs to have a little movement configuration. Not only that, to make it realistic just like in real life, players will be slowed down.

Sure, in public shooter, water won't be that very effective, but give me an idea or two about what Soldat can use with water.
"Prudence is good when pulling the trigger on a heavy firearm. It's all or nothing. So is life, wouldn't you say?"

Offline smiluu

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Re: swimming
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2010, 03:30:46 am »
You keep comparing Soldat and CS like some witsless idiot. Only way Soldat resemples CS is by guns and gun sounds that
we have seen nearly in every game in 2009-10 mainstream production. What I mean ofcourse is that CS isnt only or first game
that has guns and water. So far each game I know that has water has not disappointed me. Just like Darkcrusade in page one,
youre afraid of some weird configurations and features that aren't even necessary to be afraid of.

Idea 1:
Um.. Tens of thousands of new gameplay/layout possibilities?
Idea 2:
Water would be useful in thöörms of balancing routes, if you want some of them to slow people down.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 03:35:47 am by smiluu »

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Re: swimming
« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2010, 05:55:19 am »
Idea 2 sounds useless if you don´t create maps without jet fuel since people would just fly over it unless the whole route is underwater. Besides that you´d need many different water scenery objects for different maps or it just gets plain boring due to never changing scenery.

Sure it would offer TW new options, why not, but no default CTF maps with water then, please.


Water would be useful in thöörms of balancing routes, if you want some of them to slow people down.

You can already balance routes in an easy way that was used on maps like ctf_Run, right?

Offline smiluu

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Re: swimming
« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2010, 09:45:44 am »
I apologize for posting such an useless post previously, but I'm afraid I have to do that again, because
I feel responsible to correct myself to our friend Darkcrusade who has his bad habit of being able to
understand only one thing at a time.


You can already balance routes in an easy way that was used on maps like ctf_Run, right?
Water would be useful in thöörms of balancing routes, if you want some of them to slow people down.

And with this I meant if theres longer and shorter routes. Underwater sewerlike pipe would be a splendid choise
for the shorter route if you want them to be balanced.

Instead of getting inspired yourself by this idea you keep doubting mine and (again) being afraid a no matter things such as this
will affect your default maps gameplay. I understand youre influenced by that trend of mauling default maps with everything
possible new, but that believe or not is a taboo for me too. I wonder if you whined the same whining when you heard explosive
polygons are gonna be added to soldat. Better pucker up your whip.. Because somebodys about to ruin our precious
defaults with explosives.

Offline demoniac93

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Re: swimming
« Reply #29 on: March 08, 2010, 11:31:42 am »
Heck, I'm all for variation, but I just don't see any practical uses for this, except as mentioned in TW maps.
b&

Offline smiluu

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Re: swimming
« Reply #30 on: March 08, 2010, 11:49:54 am »
Well like I said, all basic things it can do is slow people down. Ofcourse people might be flying over it, or not if you have ran out of
jet by attemping some air-lunatism above the puddle. Medkits, nades and bonuses might exist in the bottom of a puddle which makes
picking them slow you down. Even flags might find a good spot in the water. All this can be used in advantage in various ways if you
just use your slight imagination a bit.

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Re: swimming
« Reply #31 on: March 08, 2010, 12:06:15 pm »
Look, is it only me with this in your eyes so derisory opinion? I don´t think so. I already said that it would be okay for gamemodes like TW but I said I am concerned about default CTF maps. That´s all. Besides that I think that any underwater part with those water polygons would ruin the game completly if the player faces and enemy and both are not able to hit the other player since the water just stops the bullets like it´s in reality (and in reality guns don´t work underwater). Will there be an air display, too? I can imagine FCs camp underwater just to survive. If an air display is going to be added all interfaces created till that unlucky day will be looking ugly as fuck.

Explosive polygons are nothing that new since they instantly kill you, right? Like deadly and bloody deadly polygons. That´s not that kind of gamebreaking.


Offline demoniac93

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Re: swimming
« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2010, 12:53:20 pm »
You forget that both the AK and Glock can fire under water, and let's not start with spear guns...
And what about the APS?
b&

Offline Horve

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Re: swimming
« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2010, 01:11:07 pm »
if it's possible to simulate water, one could also simulate quicksand and mud with the same poly type.
Could also be used in realistic mode for fall damage reduction.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 01:46:17 pm by Horve »

Offline smiluu

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Re: swimming
« Reply #34 on: March 08, 2010, 01:27:02 pm »
Look, is it only me with this in your eyes so derisory opinion? I don´t think so. I already said that it would be okay for gamemodes like TW but I said I am concerned about default CTF maps. That´s all. Besides that I think that any underwater part with those water polygons would ruin the game completly if the player faces and enemy and both are not able to hit the other player since the water just stops the bullets like it´s in reality (and in reality guns don´t work underwater). Will there be an air display, too? I can imagine FCs camp underwater just to survive. If an air display is going to be added all interfaces created till that unlucky day will be looking ugly as f**k.
I think somebody mentioned already or sort of implied, but your comments are something that cannot be replied without derision.
Who said anything about mimicking realism? Guns would obviously work underwater unless we've all suddenly decided to become
stupid as f**k. Air bar and lack of air underwater was propably best suggestion I've heard from you ever (even tho it would be
obvious and thus unnecessary to mention). Once again youre concerned about default maps as if somebodys gonna insert diarhea
in the format of water youre so afraid of there right on the spot it gets featured. Would be possible there might emerge maps into
defaults list with the new water element used, but default maps with such a fine layout as they already have - wont change other
than visually or duz-ually if we have bad luck.

if it's possible to simulate water, one could also simulate quicksand and mud with the same poly type.

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: swimming
« Reply #35 on: March 08, 2010, 01:52:07 pm »
Look, is it only me with this in your eyes so derisory opinion? I don´t think so. I already said that it would be okay for gamemodes like TW but I said I am concerned about default CTF maps. That´s all. Besides that I think that any underwater part with those water polygons would ruin the game completly if the player faces and enemy and both are not able to hit the other player since the water just stops the bullets like it´s in reality (and in reality guns don´t work underwater). Will there be an air display, too? I can imagine FCs camp underwater just to survive. If an air display is going to be added all interfaces created till that unlucky day will be looking ugly as f**k.

Explosive polygons are nothing that new since they instantly kill you, right? Like deadly and bloody deadly polygons. That´s not that kind of gamebreaking.


Air bar does not have to be part of interface. Soldat can already display text on screen, so amount of air could simply be a blue bold counter at the top. Alternatively, a jet bar can be used instead, since it's blue and jets could be made not working underwater. Or maybe even no counter at all, like in Quake that I mentioned a thousand times already.
IMHO lack of counter actually makes it more interesting when you don't know how much air you have left and if you will make it out of water in time.

Either way, this is a minor detail and should not decide if water gets added or not.



Default CTF maps:
If they're, playable, fun and well-balanced - they deserve to be in defaults whether there is water or not.

Shooting in water:
Bullets do go through water, you know. In Soldat they can be made going a little slower than in open air. And yes, in real life weapons don't work underwater. But this is a game, and even in very realistic games some realism is sacrificed for the sake of fun. I don't see a problem if soldiers will be able to freely shoot underwater.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 01:55:58 pm by L[0ne]R »


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Re: swimming
« Reply #36 on: March 08, 2010, 02:23:18 pm »
I get more and more convinced that water polygons could be fun. Lets develop this until it gets more interesting. Here are some points that I am most concerned about:

Campers:
Barretards tend to camp somewhere where they are both safe and able to take down enemies with ease. If there is a route with water campers won´t be able to take down enemies with single shots, though they are not killable that easy.

Grenades:
What will happen with them? If they get slowed down they will rather hurt the original owner than the target.

Knife:
Useless?



Offline demoniac93

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Re: swimming
« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2010, 03:15:17 pm »
I get more and more convinced that water polygons could be fun. Lets develop this until it gets more interesting. Here are some points that I am most concerned about:

Campers:
Barretards tend to camp somewhere where they are both safe and able to take down enemies with ease. If there is a route with water campers won´t be able to take down enemies with single shots, though they are not killable that easy.

Grenades:
What will happen with them? If they get slowed down they will rather hurt the original owner than the target.

Knife:
Useless?

Actually, the Barrett is one of the weapons I know for sure don't fire under water without modification.
I already said, only the AK could apply in soldat as to shooting underwater, that, and maybe add a  spear gun, or spear gun bonus.

Grenades might be made to travel only a few feet under water, but they will explode normally AFAIK, in real life.

As to the knife, when you're under water, CQC is a life saver.
 
b&

Offline Mr. America

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Re: swimming
« Reply #38 on: March 08, 2010, 03:20:59 pm »
Another thing. If, IF, the water doesn't fall according to physics, one could make awesome surreal waterexperiments like floating waterbubbles troughout the map (flying trough will slow you down, possible to jump (?) off them, etc...) and in case that a current/stream/flow could be added (only if it doesn't follow physics to start with) it would add some neat transporting options.

No, don't slow down bullets, to fight camping it would make more sense for ppl to suffocate underwater (= no camping).

All in all I'm sooooooo interested in water enabled in Soldat. And those other polygon types suggested from L[0ne]r.

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Re: swimming
« Reply #39 on: March 08, 2010, 04:32:10 pm »
Actually, the Barrett is one of the weapons I know for sure don't fire under water without modification.
I already said, only the AK could apply in soldat as to shooting underwater, that, and maybe add a  spear gun, or spear gun bonus.

Grenades might be made to travel only a few feet under water, but they will explode normally AFAIK, in real life.

As to the knife, when you're under water, CQC is a life saver.
 

Lets get back from reality. Neither CS really simluates reality nor Soldat and it´s ridiculous that any gun won´t fire underwater other than the AK and a spear gun sounds too disgressive to be frank. If water, then with every gun being able to fire underwater. For me the question is what will happen if I fire it.

@Mr. America:
Bubbles sound like Sonic the Hedgehog, in a 2D flashgame I played once I was supposed to run through an underwater temple and I was only able to get some fresh air from bubbles that were floating through the temple. No, Soldats physics don´t allow that stuff.

Offline demoniac93

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Re: swimming
« Reply #40 on: March 08, 2010, 04:46:06 pm »
Actually, I'm neutral here.
I don't take form CS, it's a suck ass game.
And to me slow bullets sound hella boring.
(Water's supposed to slow down bullets real bad).
b&

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Re: swimming
« Reply #41 on: March 08, 2010, 04:51:08 pm »
If the water slows down players the next logical step is slowing down bullets, too.

Offline p0ppin

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Re: swimming
« Reply #42 on: March 08, 2010, 04:57:47 pm »
Seriously guys, an air meter?  When you have a perfectly good health bar already?  Umm, I'm not much of a coder but I'm sure you could cook up something along the lines of "If player d*cks around in water for over x amount of time, players health goes down at a rate of y".  And to the "water is too complex, soldat is a simple game!" arguement: Where do you draw the line of simplicity?  I'm sure movement accuracy and bink leave some players scratching their head, so let's just get rid of those too, and why not gravity as well.  Hell, we don't need gosteks either, red and blue blobs work just as fine.  Simple doesn't always mean better, and we should not be afraid to try new things for the sake of keeping soldat that way.  The mapping community would keep the negative aspects of water polygons in check - who the hell would play a map where the efc can simply hide underwater until his team gets the flag back?  Mappers aren't that stupid... I hope.
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Re: swimming
« Reply #43 on: March 08, 2010, 05:02:37 pm »
Well, there could be some kind of countdown above the gosteks head. A player could stay only 15 seconds underwater, then he needs to catch fresh air again.

Offline Mr. America

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Re: swimming
« Reply #44 on: March 08, 2010, 05:52:29 pm »
@DarkCrusade: Sry about my bad english, with bubbles i meant spheres of water. And imagine a pretty normal map with lots of open space filled with big "bubbles" here and there. Would be interesting...

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Re: swimming
« Reply #45 on: March 08, 2010, 06:09:10 pm »
Ah, okay, you inspired me for an awesome idea :)

Mappers shall have an option next to opacity how fast a player gets inside of a polygon with vertex options. A solid polygon would have a value of 0. A polygon that works like a doesn´t collide polygon would have a value of 100 (here you get an option for multiple polygon types like polygons that don´t collide but hurt / kill / set on fire). Those water bubbles you were talking off could be nicely done with a hard core that is a little teleporter and around it polygons that let the player get near to the core slower (outside value of 75, inside of 35 for example) and then you get boosted outside. This would not only be nice for bubbles but in general for maps with open room.

And this all with that goddamn water polygon idea.

Offline the halo fan

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Re: swimming
« Reply #46 on: March 08, 2010, 06:43:53 pm »
Does this idea really disperses 3 pages .... heck most of your guys are still talking about CS i personally think this should be a poll for and easy yes and no quick answer im not sure if this really need 3 pages of posting and pulse how to be so sure that the game makers of soldat will put water in the game if you want water so bad and a lot of people like the idea find a way to contact the makers of  soldat and point them to this forum topic .... lol it works in the movies :P

Offline Dusty

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Re: swimming
« Reply #47 on: March 08, 2010, 06:51:26 pm »
sure that the game makers of soldat will put water in the game if you want water so bad


No.

DarkCrusade

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Re: swimming
« Reply #48 on: March 08, 2010, 06:54:31 pm »
It seems like you don´t know the bid developer, EnEsCe is watching the forums.
There is no need to contact "god".
Soldat is often compared to CS or other third party shooter games since it has similiarities with them.
There was a discussion on water polygons that you should read carefully before posting that stuff here.
Movies don´t show you the reality. Reality shows you what could be with movies.

EDIT:


No.

Just my thought, lol.

Offline Mr. America

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Re: swimming
« Reply #49 on: March 08, 2010, 06:58:50 pm »
Tell me DarkCrusade, did you actually read More polygon properties from L[0ne]r ? There are posts from you within the thread, but it's just amazingly weird how you just mentioned your awesome newly invented polygontype...?

btw, Reality is just bad television.

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Re: swimming
« Reply #50 on: March 08, 2010, 07:31:55 pm »
My awesome newly invented polygontype? I just had an idea what could be added and I forgot about that old topic.

Offline p0ppin

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Re: swimming
« Reply #51 on: March 08, 2010, 08:15:12 pm »
I love how something worthwhile gets suggested, but you all bicker like schoolchildren until the idea can't be taken seriously anymore.  Stop the madness. :'(
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Offline TheWind

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Re: swimming
« Reply #52 on: March 09, 2010, 04:56:04 am »
f11, it would ruin soldats main idea :S

DarkCrusade

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Re: swimming
« Reply #53 on: March 09, 2010, 07:42:47 am »
f11, it would ruin soldats main idea :S

And that is?

Offline Horve

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Re: swimming
« Reply #54 on: March 09, 2010, 08:53:02 am »
f11, it would ruin soldats main idea :S

Not swim?

This polygon type could be more universal, acting as a player slowing one when the player is inside it (just like you can enter the doesn't collide polygons /only bullet collide polygons). When a player enters this polygon, he is influenced by weaker gravity, affecting objects as well as bullets. That way, it won't only be a swimming polygon.

A countdown wouldn't be necessary as you could make the bottom polygon hurting or just make the inside of the "swim" polygon damaging over time.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2010, 11:03:29 am by Horve »

Offline CrayAB

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Re: swimming
« Reply #55 on: March 09, 2010, 10:46:51 am »
This is a terrible idea. Why are you guys arguing over it?

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: swimming
« Reply #56 on: March 09, 2010, 10:47:53 am »
This is a terrible idea. Why are you guys arguing over it?
Because it's not a terrible idea?


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Offline CrayAB

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Re: swimming
« Reply #57 on: March 09, 2010, 11:03:33 am »
http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=7292.0

Map Format Destructible terrain, liquids, VEHICLES, mobile polygons (these would require a gigantic map format change as already covered above, they would be huge changes to gameplay which would not only disgust many current players but probably result in more glitches, etc.)

I'll just leave this here.

Offline Horve

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Re: swimming
« Reply #58 on: March 09, 2010, 11:07:33 am »
liquids and swimming are different things. Find your way out, please.

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Re: swimming
« Reply #59 on: March 09, 2010, 11:12:15 am »
liquids and swimming are different things.
That's not very clear, but I know what you mean.
I'll rephrase that:

We're talking about slightly different things here. We're not talking about a whole liquid physics system with waves, overflowing puddles, rivers, floating objects and all that.
We're talking about simply polygons, inside which players moves slower. Water is just one of the things that could be simulated with these kinds of polygons.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2010, 11:24:57 am by L[0ne]R »


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Offline Mr. America

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Re: swimming
« Reply #60 on: March 09, 2010, 11:23:52 am »
F12. I'm not too keen on waterphysics too, I'd rather want what he already suggested in that old thread.

Offline CrayAB

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Re: swimming
« Reply #61 on: March 09, 2010, 02:24:27 pm »
liquids and swimming are different things. Find your way out, please.
Oh, I forgot, water isn't a liquid. LOL

Offline Shard

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Re: swimming
« Reply #62 on: March 09, 2010, 02:41:01 pm »
Add a polygon type that allows for adjustable gravity, or full up/down/left/right movement control. That would work right?
^^^^THIS^^^^^^
We already have gravity scripts, so it wont be to hard to code it into a polygon type.
I will not be ignored on this matter, which seems to happen alot when a few people with a bit more sway start saying things. Out of everything brought up in this thread, no one has suggested another way to do it apart from mine. So maybe rather then arguing we discuss more on how it can be done.

From: March 09, 2010, 02:45:56 pm
liquids and swimming are different things. Find your way out, please.
Oh, I forgot, water isn't a liquid. LOL
Ok, I think that got a bit screwed. Yes we want liquids, which will allow this. Yes this appears to be a direct violation of what not to suggest. But they want liquids, to be able to swim in, and as loner said, not an entire new set of world physics. That clear enough?
« Last Edit: March 09, 2010, 02:45:56 pm by Shard »

Offline CrayAB

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Re: swimming
« Reply #63 on: March 09, 2010, 03:37:12 pm »
Still a bad idea.

Offline demoniac93

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Re: swimming
« Reply #64 on: March 09, 2010, 04:18:08 pm »
Get out fro crying out loud.
I want my 2D grunt to crawl through mud, dive through water, and push through swamps.
b&

Offline Shard

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Re: swimming
« Reply #65 on: March 09, 2010, 04:34:27 pm »
Still a bad idea.
Oh yes. I love your reply, so full of detail and insight. Any other thoughts you care to churn out? Or did those 4 words exhaust your vocabulary?

Offline chutem

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Re: swimming
« Reply #66 on: March 09, 2010, 09:45:28 pm »
liquids and swimming are different things. Find your way out, please.
Oh, I forgot, water isn't a liquid. LOL
The liquid mentioned in that thread means actual particles moving, bouncing off each other and the map, so for instance rain would collect in depressions and run off hills.

Water polygon is just a name given to this suggestion as it is a good way to describe how the polygon acts in relation to players/objects/bullets.

Also, not everything on the do not suggest list is absolutely never going to be implemented (such as accounts, new polygon types(only flagger, alpha collides etc.)), except for things with flashing lights around them i.e. vehicles. Going further, it is still a good idea to bring up so called "don't suggest" items, as peoples views change and new things become possible.

Unless you have something to add to your "This idea suckz" and "Still a bad idea":
Find your way out, please.
.

I think this is a great idea, especially having adjustable properties to simulate various viscosities, slow-mo maps/rooms would be interesting.

Ok I am done for now.
1NK3FbdNtH6jNH4dc1fzuvd4ruVdMQABvs

Offline The Geologist

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Re: swimming
« Reply #67 on: March 09, 2010, 11:00:23 pm »
You should understand the difference between unwelcome crap and something that would be a potential newness.

You should understand the difference between being a pretentious prick who has nothing better to do than pick a map that has nothing to do with this topic, rag on it as being unwelcome, then make some ultimate "point" by referencing this rehashed topic as some "potential newness".

i.e. You're a prick, and you get a warning for it.  Choose your arguments a bit more wisely next time. *

Personally, I can't see any point to slowing the game down any more.  Even with mapping possibilities.  See how fun your water polys are when they're the most heavily camped spots in maps due to sluggish gravity.

* You've been warned so many times, it seems useless at this point.  Stupid to warn you again.  GTFO for a while.

« Last Edit: March 09, 2010, 11:16:38 pm by The Geologist »
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Offline CrayAB

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Re: swimming
« Reply #68 on: March 10, 2010, 11:50:43 am »
liquids and swimming are different things. Find your way out, please.
Oh, I forgot, water isn't a liquid. LOL
The liquid mentioned in that thread means actual particles moving, bouncing off each other and the map, so for instance rain would collect in depressions and run off hills.

Water polygon is just a name given to this suggestion as it is a good way to describe how the polygon acts in relation to players/objects/bullets.

Also, not everything on the do not suggest list is absolutely never going to be implemented (such as accounts, new polygon types(only flagger, alpha collides etc.)), except for things with flashing lights around them i.e. vehicles. Going further, it is still a good idea to bring up so called "don't suggest" items, as peoples views change and new things become possible.

Unless you have something to add to your "This idea suckz" and "Still a bad idea":
Find your way out, please.
.

I think this is a great idea, especially having adjustable properties to simulate various viscosities, slow-mo maps/rooms would be interesting.

Ok I am done for now.
This idea suckz

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Re: swimming
« Reply #69 on: March 10, 2010, 12:37:02 pm »
Can it CrayAB, if you don't have any constuctive comments about such an idea other than saying what you hate, please leave.



Water polygons, i support. But it needs balancing against campers- like me
Ontopic-
On the suggested feature of slower bullets, yeah i support that. If not, why not slow bullets down till the Soldat can actually 'dodge' it?- screw realism for such a minor feature like this, Soldat's a game.

Adding to slowing bullets, decreased range and damage? For example, bullets flying in normal airspace have 100% damage and range capabilities. in water however, damage is decreased to a fraction of that damage/range. (Ive had my fair share in swimming in Farcry2, and i must say the water implementation is awesome, even if i get hit by a sniper ,I would still have a chance to get out of the water, and punish him.)

Final idea is to slow down the weapon fireinterval.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2010, 12:39:22 pm by scout »

Offline jerich

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Re: swimming
« Reply #70 on: March 10, 2010, 01:23:29 pm »
This won't work. Simply put.


If the developers of soldat are unable to code a game that is less bug free than it's current state, how do you think they would code a water simulated physics engine into soldat? Whether it is incompetence, difficult, or plain laziness to fix the hard coding of this soldat is left unto your interpretation. But the physics of players swimming(or gravitized simulation for that matter), also taking account the weapons and ammunition just asks for trouble.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2010, 01:25:21 pm by jerich »
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Offline Horve

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Re: swimming
« Reply #71 on: March 10, 2010, 01:25:54 pm »
An area with different gravitational pull bordered by the outlines of a polygon.
The simplest variant.

       /\
100 /75\ 100 (% grav pull)
     '''''''''''
« Last Edit: March 10, 2010, 01:29:41 pm by Horve »

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: swimming
« Reply #72 on: March 10, 2010, 02:25:15 pm »
* You've been warned so many times, it seems useless at this point.  Stupid to warn you again.  GTFO for a while.
Other than that comment, he did give some good opinions in this thread. Is that one comment at the back really worth a mute?

...unlike SOMEONE who can't say anything more useful than that:
This idea suckz
Twice.


On-topic:
As for camping - what do you think about air limit?
It has been mentioned many times here and I think it'll be a perfect solution against water campers. They simply won't be able to stay underwater for long. If they stay close to the surface, they could camp, but then they'll be just as vulnerable as in open air.
Air limit could be a map setting like jet fuel, so depending on a map it could be adjusted to infinite, or set to "none" so the players will get damaged instantly when they're underwater

On water combat - to me there's no need to slow the bullets down way too much. Instead of decreasing speed - there could be a slight decrease in accuracy or damage and a more straight arc of bullet trajectory. So the combat will still be fast and intense enough, but would feel a lot different (like on one of those zero-gravity servers if you ever played on any).
But at this point I think it's unimportant. Such fine balance is something that should be decided after (and if) the main feature is implemented.

« Last Edit: March 10, 2010, 02:32:48 pm by L[0ne]R »


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Offline Horve

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Re: swimming
« Reply #73 on: March 10, 2010, 03:11:18 pm »
there is a way to make a bullet change it's trajectory and speed with only bullets collide polygons already.
you put tiny triangles with space in between them in a row and try to shoot through this pillar. See what happens.
      |  ^
--> | /
      | \
          v

If you make the borders of the slowing polygon act as thin bullet colliding lines, you get your bullet slowing and accuracy decrease.
 Usually I'm not keen on exposing my mapping techniques, but here it seemed appropriate.

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: swimming
« Reply #74 on: March 10, 2010, 03:30:40 pm »
If you make the borders of the slowing polygon act as thin bullet colliding lines, you get your bullet slowing and accuracy decrease.
This would work if players are shooting at each other from opposite sides of water surface, but if they're both underwater - it would look like a generic open-air fight.  In water the effect should spread to the whole space, not just the borders.

Though it still is a nice solution in case Soldat will never have water implemented.


Usually I'm not keen on exposing my mapping techniques, but here it seemed appropriate.
Sorry to disappoint you, but that technique is not that secret. ;P It's even used in some of the default maps (inf_Warehouse for example).


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Offline Horve

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Re: swimming
« Reply #75 on: March 10, 2010, 03:57:06 pm »
If you make the borders of the slowing polygon act as thin bullet colliding lines, you get your bullet slowing and accuracy decrease.
This would work if players are shooting at each other from opposite sides of water surface, but if they're both underwater - it would look like a generic open-air fight.  In water the effect should spread to the whole space, not just the borders.

Though it still is a nice solution in case Soldat will never have water implemented.


Usually I'm not keen on exposing my mapping techniques, but here it seemed appropriate.
Sorry to disappoint you, but that technique is not that secret. ;P It's even used in some of the default maps (inf_Warehouse for example).

An obsolete variant. I think you're referring to a thin LINE, not several tiny triangles that allow the player's bullets to change their course of movement regardless of the direction the bullets come from. In case of a thin straight line, the bullets just collide/ricochet if shot from a <45/>135 degree angle.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2010, 03:59:13 pm by Horve »

Offline CrayAB

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Re: swimming
« Reply #76 on: March 10, 2010, 11:31:42 pm »
Let's add polygons that reverse gravity too while we're at it. Or maybe some teleporting polygons. I always wanted those.
Can it CrayAB
No.

Offline MattH

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Re: swimming
« Reply #77 on: March 11, 2010, 12:32:56 am »
I honestly think, that in the long run adding swimming to soldat would ruin the gameplay.
Soldat was made to be a simple straightforward shoot'em up slider game.

Although swimming sounds attractive at first, when you think of all the technical problems it could cause, its just not worth it. 

On another note:
Let's add polygons that reverse gravity too while we're at it. Or maybe some teleporting polygons. I always wanted those.
Can it CrayAB
No.
dude don't be a damn troll, all you have contributed to this thread so far is a bunch of lame half thought insults and four word comments like
Still a bad idea.
Honestly, if you don't have anything constructive to post the don't bother posting at all, you will just make people annoyed.

ALTHOUGH liquids are one of the things that where added to the "Do Not Suggest thread" this forum has been progressively getting less and less active, so threads like this are good for the community.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2010, 10:04:21 am by MattH »

Offline TradeMAAK

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Re: swimming
« Reply #78 on: March 31, 2010, 07:11:27 pm »
No. For the sake of Soldats simplicity.
Translation:
No. For the sake of laziness.
destroy

Offline MorlanV

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Re: swimming
« Reply #79 on: April 12, 2010, 05:46:36 am »
It wouldn't be synced well for the game, and laggers will be going "OMG HES HOVERING IN WATER"

Offline mich1103

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Re: swimming
« Reply #80 on: April 12, 2010, 05:49:29 am »
Or simply select a place to change the gravity and after put the scenery of you want on it !

Offline machina

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Re: swimming
« Reply #81 on: April 23, 2010, 01:52:16 pm »
I think we don't need swimming in official version of game... But you can make a mod...