Making a game

[Stahlkaiser]

No difference between 3d and 2d really.
Well difference isn't that big, so please, don't care.

The difference in the work that need to be done is big. creating 3D models might consume much time. 2D in general needs not that much time.

IN addition you have 3 dimensions in which you will need to program camera views and stuff lie that.

By checking forums and dev-logs of indie-game-development related games you can easily figure out, that most developers choose to create 2d games because it is a known fact that 2d alone is work enough... and not THAT much of started games gets finished(at all) in 2D ... more less in 3d!

[Neosano]

No difference between 3d and 2d really.
Well difference isn't that big, so please, don't care.

The difference in the work that need to be done is big. creating 3D models might consume much time. 2D in general needs not that much time.

IN addition you have 3 dimensions in which you will need to program camera views and stuff lie that.

By checking forums and dev-logs of indie-game-development related games you can easily figure out, that most developers choose to create 2d games because it is a known fact that 2d alone is work enough... and not THAT much of started games gets finished(at all) in 2D ... more less in 3d!

3D models - yea right, it takes a bit more time to make them, but not that much as you're thinking.
Camera views are still have to be programmed in 2D. If you're going to create a 2D game you'll have to use Direct3D anyway! And I really-really love 3D cameras in 2D games.

[Stahlkaiser]

Skykanden is a great artist, lets see how far he will bring it

[-Major-]

If I started learning coding today I would probably start with C# and probably XNA if I wanted to code a game. so basically get visual studio(express editions are free) and find some tutorials.

Well, if he intends to make a game that works on other platforms in addition to Windows, he might look towards learning to code in Python or Ruby and use the appropriate SDL bindings.

This might be an interesting place to start: http://www.pygame.org/

well... with C# you can start making decent games within a year, if you spend some time with it ( you could probably learn in just a few months if you're using XNA)... learning hard programming languages for a personal project is just wasting your time....

[Neosano]

If I started learning coding today I would probably start with C# and probably XNA if I wanted to code a game. so basically get visual studio(express editions are free) and find some tutorials.

Well, if he intends to make a game that works on other platforms in addition to Windows, he might look towards learning to code in Python or Ruby and use the appropriate SDL bindings.

This might be an interesting place to start: http://www.pygame.org/

well... with C# you can start making decent games within a year, if you spend some time with it ( you could probably learn in just a few months if you're using XNA)... learning hard programming languages for a personal project is just wasting your time....

Bullshit. You will never learn to make games if you wont make games.
It means that he'll start making something for his game in the first day he'll learn C#
And there's nothing hard in learning "hard" languages. Even more, simple languages are hard, because you'll always have to find a way to workaround something or write yourself. In C# everything is ready, you just have to know how to write your needs in a program (which is reeeeeeeeally easy with google)

[-Major-]

Bulls**t. You will never learn to make games if you wont make games.
It means that he'll start making something for his game in the first day he'll learn C#
And there's nothing hard in learning "hard" languages. Even more, simple languages are hard, because you'll always have to find a way to workaround something or write yourself. In C# everything is ready, you just have to know how to write your needs in a program (which is reeeeeeeeally easy with google)

what?

[Toumaz]

I've a feeling we've started drifting from baby steps in game development to the process of creating a full-featured indie title, but hell, I'll bite.

No difference between 3d and 2d really.
Well difference isn't that big, so please, don't care.

The difference in the work that need to be done is big. creating 3D models might consume much time. 2D in general needs not that much time.

IN addition you have 3 dimensions in which you will need to program camera views and stuff lie that.

Stahlkaiser is entirely correct. 2D games take quite a bit less effort to create than 3D games, and beginning by coding 3D games without prior programming experience would be rather darn hard!

Neosano, when you say that the difference between 2D and 3D isn't very big, what exactly is it that separate the two dimension spaces then? I can think of quite a few, myself, and I'd be very interested in how you consider there to be no major difference between the two.

3D models - yea right, it takes a bit more time to make them, but not that much as you're thinking.

During one of the projects I've been part of, creating one character took about two days worth of concept art, two weeks for the mesh work, and two weeks for about ten animations. Creating the 2D art for the entire game, including HUD and menus, took about three days all in all.

Not the best of examples, as I still doubt Skykanden is going to create a normal mapped 3D model with about 8,000 tris. Most people know how to operate a basic image editor; the same is not the case for Blender/Maya/3DS.

Camera views are still have to be programmed in 2D.

Not necessarily.

If you're going to create a 2D game you'll have to use Direct3D anyway!

Wrong.

And holy s**t, I never thought I'd ever end up agreeing with Major, but really, what?

[jrgp]

Well, if he intends to make a game that works on other platforms in addition to Windows, he might look towards learning to code in Python or Ruby and use the appropriate SDL bindings.

This might be an interesting place to start: http://www.pygame.org/

well... with C# you can start making decent games within a year, if you spend some time with it ( you could probably learn in just a few months if you're using XNA)... learning hard programming languages for a personal project is just wasting your time....

Python and Ruby are by far some of the easiest programming languages there are..

[-Skykanden-]

Well I've got some news.

I used C# with XNA.
I made a buddy that is able to run and walk arround the map. He has 3 frames for walking and depending on the speed the frames pass faster or slower.
But there is a lot to do!
Thanks for your help

[Toumaz]

Best of luck to you. :)

[-Skykanden-]

Thanks Toumaz.
If I need some help that I think that I will, I'll post it there.
And if you want that 'game' I can post it too.

[Stahlkaiser]

Thanks Toumaz.
If I need some help that I think that I will, I'll post it there.
And if you want that 'game' I can post it too.

Yes please post it, i am interested. interested as well in what you want to create at all.

I've a feeling we've started drifting from baby steps in game development to the process of creating a full-featured indie title, but hell, I'll bite.

No difference between 3d and 2d really.
Well difference isn't that big, so please, don't care.

The difference in the work that need to be done is big. creating 3D models might consume much time. 2D in general needs not that much time.

IN addition you have 3 dimensions in which you will need to program camera views and stuff lie that.

Stahlkaiser is entirely correct. 2D games take quite a bit less effort to create than 3D games, and beginning by coding 3D games without prior programming experience would be rather darn hard!

Neosano, when you say that the difference between 2D and 3D isn't very big, what exactly is it that separate the two dimension spaces then? I can think of quite a few, myself, and I'd be very interested in how you consider there to be no major difference between the two.

3D models - yea right, it takes a bit more time to make them, but not that much as you're thinking.

During one of the projects I've been part of, creating one character took about two days worth of concept art, two weeks for the mesh work, and two weeks for about ten animations. Creating the 2D art for the entire game, including HUD and menus, took about three days all in all.

Not the best of examples, as I still doubt Skykanden is going to create a normal mapped 3D model with about 8,000 tris. Most people know how to operate a basic image editor; the same is not the case for Blender/Maya/3DS.

Camera views are still have to be programmed in 2D.

Not necessarily.

If you're going to create a 2D game you'll have to use Direct3D anyway!

Wrong.

And holy s**t, I never thought I'd ever end up agreeing with Major, but really, what?

Oh, thanks for agreeing
But let me tell you that not only the moddeling is (at least a bit) harder then creating sprites but the animation of 3d models is much, much harder! especially for humans or animals/aliens etc. !

[-Skykanden-]

Allright
I think it should work...
go to

MyFirstGame/bin/x86/debug/MyFirstGameWindows

The sprites are bascally schematic and not 'serious' it is just a test

[Toumaz]

But let me tell you that not only the moddeling is (at least a bit) harder then creating sprites but the animation of 3d models is much, much harder! especially for humans or animals/aliens etc. !

Oh, I know by experience - no need to tell me at all! Even with motion capture equipment for human animation, you still end up having to do about a week's worth of polishing up in MotionBuilder. It's just incredibly fiddly and time consuming on the whole. :)

[Stahlkaiser]

But let me tell you that not only the moddeling is (at least a bit) harder then creating sprites but the animation of 3d models is much, much harder! especially for humans or animals/aliens etc. !

Oh, I know by experience - no need to tell me at all! Even with motion capture equipment for human animation, you still end up having to do about a week's worth of polishing up in MotionBuilder. It's just incredibly fiddly and time consuming on the whole.

Of course didn`t  want to abuse you!  but didn`t know, that you already made that kind of experience.

yeah, personally will stick to 2D images for my games forever

btw that i had a new post on my shmup... but it not really is worth looking at at the moment

there you can download it:

http://www.file-upload.net/download-2551007/KARDIA_-DEMO_NEWEST.exe.html
... not meant to be shown as i said in my post...it is a bunch of crap, it is the testing field in which i test my newly coded stuff.. NOT a demo

maybe you should read this post first:
http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=30548.msg467598#msg467598

Allright
I think it should work...
go to

MyFirstGame/bin/x86/debug/MyFirstGameWindows

The sprites are basically schematic and not 'serious' it is just a test

Neat    You`re fast in learning huh? :-O i mean... you just started and this... works!?!? ... cool!

[-Major-]

Well, if he intends to make a game that works on other platforms in addition to Windows, he might look towards learning to code in Python or Ruby and use the appropriate SDL bindings.

This might be an interesting place to start: http://www.pygame.org/

well... with C# you can start making decent games within a year, if you spend some time with it ( you could probably learn in just a few months if you're using XNA)... learning hard programming languages for a personal project is just wasting your time....

Python and Ruby are by far some of the easiest programming languages there are..

never used them... but I doubt they are any easier than C# with XNA... XNA basically got everything already... you just need to learn the functions in it.

[squiddy]

Okay guys, please enlighten me.

XNA is a program that creates a game, based on C# ?

Is there any other program that compiles C# ?

[Snow]

If I were you I would start with Flash. Making simple games are easy with Flash, plus you start learning how to program the right way. I know what I'm talking about. Check out the shootorial tutorials on www.kongregate.com. You learn quite a bit there and then you can move on after that point.

[Toumaz]

XNA is a program that creates a game, based on C# ?
Is there any other program that compiles C# ?

XNA is a collection of tools to make game developing a fair bit easier, and it can be used with C#. C# is a language, and the reference compiler for it is Microsoft Visual C# - but there are other C# compilers, such as the Mono project and a few others. I'm certain you can wiki whatever further details you'd like based on that. :)

Allright
I think it should work...
go to

MyFirstGame/bin/x86/debug/MyFirstGameWindows

For the record, if all you want to distribute is your game itself, then simply rar:ing that folder would be enough for others to run it (i.e., the one with the game .exe and your content sprites in).

[squiddy]

Toumaz, I did know that C# is a language

I am pretty good with Pascal/Delphi, but I have no idea how to make one game out of these languages