M79 Bug

[OpTic|AntiHero]

Well whenever I shoot/throw Law,Grenade,M79 it seems to push the player away from it and I miss -_- so any chance this will be fixed

[Rotem]

im not sure but i guess its just a lagg.. means that you see the player where you see it, and you see your m79 explode in his ass, but actually he is not really there, maybe 0.5 cantymeters far, and by real, it doesnt hit him. but im not sure so wait for more ppl.

[chutem]

It is just eats, caused by lag and bad netcode, something you will learn to live with if you choose to continue on with soldat.

[duz]

It is just eats, caused by lag and bad netcode, something you will learn to live with if you choose to continue on with soldat.

some news about netcode for 1.5.1?

[-Major-]

well, I did some test with this. you can pretty much force eats (repeat an eat scenario over and over again).
probably the server is sending bullet push packets, but only receives position and delta packets. so, the victim client gets to know it's been pushed away, because of the faulty calculation of position and delta packets by the server. this causes the client to never register a hit to apply damage.

Damage is implied immediately, just that for some reason soldat doesn't use the client values for hp etc, it uses the server values. which makes damage applied later than when it was inflicted, unless the victim dies, then it's instant.
Soldat is basically an offline game put into an online environment.

[10th_account]

Not even close, Major. And you can't reliably reproduce an "eat."

[-Major-]

Not even close, Major. And you can't reliably reproduce an "eat."

what? I can reproduce an eat over and over again. I could do it 10 times in a row, or even 100 times in a row.
eat as in taking less damage than one should or no damage at all.

I don't think you know nearly as much about soldat that you think you do.

[10th_account]

There are three lag related "eats." M79 bullets are a good example here. I'll try to break it down so you can understand.

Alice shoots her M79. On her screen she hits Bob. The bullet can damage and boost. Damage is dealt by the server, boost by the person who got hit - in this case Bob. There are four scenarios that can ensue. Damage & boost, only damage, only boost, and neither. The three latter are "eats." Though since the M79 kills instantly, it would be difficult to tell the difference between "damage & boost" and "only damage."

Alice's version:
Her last known "state" of Bob is roughly [Alice's ping] + [Bob's ping] milliseconds old. Soldat predicts where Bob would be right now based on his last known position and velocity, and how old that "state" is. Alice will thus see approximately where Bob is now instead of exactly where he was [Alice's ping] + [Bob's ping] milliseconds ago. So when Alice sees Bob "eat," it's because he wasn't really there and/or the server or Bob miscalculated Alice's bullet's path. And even though the bullet exploded, it is still "live" for the server as it obviously didn't deal any damage. So it can still potentially kill others or Alice herself.

Server's version:
The "bullet" data received from Alice when she fired is roughly [Alice's ping] milliseconds old, and the server may or may not do predictions to get a more accurate path of the bullet. The bullet is continually checked for collision against the last known "state" data received from Bob, which is roughly [Bob's ping] milliseconds old, and does not reflect where Bob really is. Only MM and maybe Ardaen and Enesce knows what really goes on here. The server may or may not do predictions here to get a more accurate position of Bob and the bullet. But if the server decides that there was a collision, it will deal damage to Bob and remove the bullet from the game. But in the case of a no-damage "eat," the server never saw the bullet hitting Bob.

Bob's version:
The "bullet" data forwarded by the server when Alice fired is roughly [Alice's ping] + [Bob's ping] milliseconds old. Soldat predicts a more accurate path for the bullet. If the bullet Bob sees hits him, Bob's game will apply boost to himself. But in the case of a no-boost "eat," Bob never saw the bullet hit him.

[-Major-]

right, but dying is instant (+ping), taking damage isn't. proof is done on a server where majorsnapshot and snapshot is updated every 4 second, however, the death came immediately.

to not have bullet push and damage being calculated at the same place is just plain stupid. there's absolutely no other logical explanation than that to why these strange eats occur.

everything works so differently online than offline, which makes it so hard to get an idea how this is coded.. like the online have 20% more jet, flag throws being kinda fucked up in online (not only the thingsnapshot delay) etc etc.

[Dusty]

too complicated for banana-san, skoskav, you should try using words such as DOG & CAT and make the sentences much shorter.

[-Major-]

too complicated for banana-san, skoskav, you should try using words such as DOG & CAT and make the sentences much shorter.

it's just that skoskav is talking out of his ass, he has no idea what he's talking about.
it's the same with the wm... he's probably below in skill of a gather player, have no idea how the metagame is... which makes it retarded to put him into the wm leader.
for some reason admins like to talk about things that they don't know about.

Only MM and maybe Ardaen and Enesce knows what really goes on here.

he even prooved he's talking crap himself.

[10th_account]

Only MM and maybe Ardaen and Enesce knows what really goes on here.

he even prooved he's talking crap himself.

Whether the server does predictions isn't relevant since it doesn't affect the implications. It's just a matter of how much the server is off - a little or slightly less. The three types of eat would still occur.

right, but dying is instant (+ping), taking damage isn't. proof is done on a server where majorsnapshot and snapshot is updated every 4 second, however, the death came immediately.

You're gonna have to explain the circumstances and results a bit better. Were you shooting a friend? Was the death immediate on his screen or yours? Couldn't it just have been the server sending an unscheduled snapshot along with the "bullet" packet once it determined that a player died? So far I don't see what it has to do with "eats."

it's the same with the wm... he's probably below in skill of a gather player, have no idea how the metagame is... which makes it retarded to put him into the wm leader.

Well... you smell like cabbage.

[Illuminatus]

Everything I noticed is that you die less often by a m79-nade while proning.

[-Major-]

Everything I noticed is that you die less often by a m79-nade while proning.

then you're lagging... if you are naded while in prone, you should die from 1 nade, no matter where it hits you.

how to eat a nade/m79? get speed to the opposite way of your opponent.
as an example; fly above a friend, and then have him jump up and use jet while you start falling, when you pass each others in mid air, wait a little and then nade/M79. most if the times this will cause an only bullet push eat, but can sometimes result in him just taking a little damage.

Well... you smell like cabbage.

why don't you let MM handle the wm? he got about as much knowledge in soldat gameplay as you. if you don't play the game, why the f**k are you handeling the wm?

right, but dying is instant (+ping), taking damage isn't. proof is done on a server where majorsnapshot and snapshot is updated every 4 second, however, the death came immediately.

You're gonna have to explain the circumstances and results a bit better. Were you shooting a friend? Was the death immediate on his screen or yours? Couldn't it just have been the server sending an unscheduled snapshot along with the "bullet" packet once it determined that a player died? So far I don't see what it has to do with "eats."

why would I? you seem to perfectly know how things work.

[DarkCrusade]

Guys, leave -Major- alone, you are wasting your time..

[Neosano]

It really amazes me how Major thinks that he knows everything, though he didn't notice even a simple mistake...

Her last known "state" of Bob is roughly [Alice's ping] + [Bob's ping] milliseconds old.

wrong! Really it is ([Alice's ping] + [Bob's ping])/2

to not have bullet push and damage being calculated at the same place is just plain stupid. there's absolutely no other logical explanation than that to why these strange eats occur.

If pushes were server-side you'll see a delay between getting m79 shot near to you and flying away. It'll be even more stupid for ya XD
If pushes were calculated in the client + if server told clients about their positions you'll see yourself flying away and then teleporting back.. which is stupid too XD
so atm it is just perfect! :>

[-Major-]

if both damage and bulletpush was calculated client side, it would be perfect. less perfect if it was calculated serverside, but it would cover up for shitty connections.

and I really didn't read his attempt to explain basic netcoding. skoskav knows nothing about soldat, and stopped playing like 5 years ago... yet he's responsible for the wm, which is turning shit.

[zyxstand]

grenades are a better example, as you can see where the grenade is on your screen, and where the server thinks it is - ie, invisible grenade: you die instantly without any grenade actually exploding.  I'd imagine if bullets are so accurately fired on everyone's screen (you can tell by the fact that crazy ricochets that you see hit someone, they get hurt from it - which would not happen if the bullet was ever so slightly inaccurate), why do nades have such a high tendency of being in the wrong location?

note: if a grenade explodes on (or near) you and you don't die (or get hurt), the nade is still LIVE, so get away from there because you don't know where the server thinks it is!

[Furai]

grenades are a better example, as you can see where the grenade is on your screen, and where the server thinks it is - ie, invisible grenade: you die instantly without any grenade actually exploding.  I'd imagine if bullets are so accurately fired on everyone's screen (you can tell by the fact that crazy ricochets that you see hit someone, they get hurt from it - which would not happen if the bullet was ever so slightly inaccurate), why do nades have such a high tendency of being in the wrong location?

note: if a grenade explodes on (or near) you and you don't die (or get hurt), the nade is still LIVE, so get away from there because you don't know where the server thinks it is!

While we are on topic of grenades. There is well-known bug to me which occurs when you throw a nade while wielding saw - players call it lag-nade. Explosive is never in the place it's shown on the screen...Actually you can't even predict it. Only "thrower" knows where it will go...

[zyxstand]

grenades are a better example, as you can see where the grenade is on your screen, and where the server thinks it is - ie, invisible grenade: you die instantly without any grenade actually exploding.  I'd imagine if bullets are so accurately fired on everyone's screen (you can tell by the fact that crazy ricochets that you see hit someone, they get hurt from it - which would not happen if the bullet was ever so slightly inaccurate), why do nades have such a high tendency of being in the wrong location?

note: if a grenade explodes on (or near) you and you don't die (or get hurt), the nade is still LIVE, so get away from there because you don't know where the server thinks it is!

While we are on topic of grenades. There is well-known bug to me which occurs when you throw a nade while wielding saw - players call it lag-nade. Explosive is never in the place it's shown on the screen...Actually you can't even predict it. Only "thrower" knows where it will go...

yeah that's an exploit - i hate people that do it on purpose...