Poll

SWF Version 1.1 feed back poll!

Five Stars! - Works perfectly, little to no changes needed; few to no bugs.
Four Stars! - Works well, a few changes needed; few bugs.
Three Stars - Works O.K., defanatly needs work
Two Stars - Lots of changes and bug fixes needed.
One Star - Is anywhere from a pice of S***, does not work at all or is pointless or usless.
I prefer Beta v.0.5.2 over v.1.1

Author Topic: Soldat Weapon Factory 1.1  (Read 22445 times)

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Offline Garciat

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Re: [Request] Weapon "MAKER".
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2010, 10:22:37 pm »
I say you make it a web app. There really is no need to make a user download something this simple.

I can help you, if you decide to take that path.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2010, 10:47:30 pm by Garciat »

Offline vehicledestroyer

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Re: [Request] Weapon "MAKER".
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2010, 11:17:26 pm »
I say you make it a web app.

Never even considered THAT. You are right though, about it being simple and making people download something. But I don't know how the community would take it. Which would they prefer? Every other (pointless) weapon.ini has been a download/program. At this point I just don''t know.

~show current file name as the window title instead of useless text box
I was thinking the same thing!

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~windows should have fixed dimensions
Already on it.

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~a simple combobox for weapons and bullet styles instead of both textboxs and lists
couldn't agree more. Their size is really unnecessary...

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right now it consumes over 45 Mb of RAM - it's way too much.
Speechless. This is just wrong! Is there anyway to save/fix what we have, with having to start ALL over again?

Thanks for the support, suggestions, and help everyone! Special shout out to Teolant for being an awesome programmer!

-Vehicle Destroyer-

P.S. Woot for page two!
I am a Soldat freelancer. I'm looking for projects and I have some of my own. I'm ready when you are...
My Projects:
Soldat weapon Factory 1.1
A community appeal
GTA II Mod

Offline Teolant

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Re: [Request] Weapon "MAKER".
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2010, 01:02:36 am »
Quote
I say you make it a web app. There really is no need to make a user download something this simple.
Describe this process; what (in general) are the steps involved?

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Is there anyway to save/fix what we have, with having to start ALL over again?
I'd rather not start over again, especially not in a language I don't know (C++/C#).

Offline Garciat

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Re: [Request] Weapon "MAKER".
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2010, 01:57:28 am »
@vehicledestroyer: If it were to be a web app, it'd be usable by anyone with [almost] any web browser on any OS. It's definitely a step up from compiled code.

@Teolant: It's quite simple.
1) Design
  1a) System design (functionality, Database scheme, URL scheme)
  1b) Graphic design (Colors, structure)
    1bI) UI (User interface)
    1bII) UX (User experience)
2) Code
  2a) Front-end (HTML, CSS)
  2b) Back-end (PHP+CodeIgniter/Python, MySQL/MongoDB)
  2c) Front-end + Back-end (JavaScript, templating)
3) Public/Private Beta
4) Publish

Nothing too far off from developing a compiled program.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2010, 02:01:54 am by Garciat »

Offline VirtualTT

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Re: [Request] Weapon "MAKER".
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2010, 02:25:48 am »
There really is no need to make a user download something this simple.
If it were to be a web app, it'd be usable by anyone with [almost] any web browser on any OS. It's definitely a step up from compiled code.
If you make it a web app users will need to download it every time they want to edit something. Also nobody will be able to use it without internet connection of if the server goes down.

Don't mess c++ and c#
.NET framework provides huge set of various abstractions and components to work with all kinds of stuff and every time you launch any .NET application all this is being loaded into RAM even though your application is going to use only few things.
Clean C++ is almost as fast and light as assembly. And you can make it use only stuff your program really needs.

Offline Teolant

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Re: [Request] Weapon "MAKER".
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2010, 02:59:20 am »
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Nothing too far off from developing a compiled program.
Would it require building it up from scratch?

Also, I'd like to hear your response from VirtualTT's point;
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If you make it a web app users will need to download it every time they want to edit something. Also nobody will be able to use it without internet connection of if the server goes down.

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Clean C++ is almost as fast and light as assembly. And you can make it use only stuff your program really needs.
Is it free?
I'm also not to sure about it in a new language anyway; because I don't know C++, which means I'd be learning it as I make the program and I wouldn't be able to guarantee any sort of quality.

Offline jrgp

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Re: [Request] Weapon "MAKER".
« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2010, 08:45:17 am »
Is it free?
I'm also not to sure about it in a new language anyway; because I don't know C++, which means I'd be learning it as I make the program and I wouldn't be able to guarantee any sort of quality.

Yes, C++ is free. It isn't maintained by any one company (it was created in the 80s, for Unix and later other platforms adopted support for it, like with C). There are thousands of free libraries for you to use with it, not just the Windows API (which is what VTT swears by)

In general, C++ requires much more skill and thought than C#, but the end result is better and you'll feel more satisfied with your work.
Careful with that axe, Eugene.

Offline Garciat

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Re: [Request] Weapon "MAKER".
« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2010, 11:19:08 am »
@VirtualITT: How's that even an argument? If you play Soldat, you have an internet connection (what's the point of playing on your own?). Also, there's new caching APIs that allow you to download your whole application's front-end (server-side functionality can be ported to the client-side) to the client's PC so that it acts like a 'real' app.

Server downtime isn't a feasible argument either. Nowadays, server uptime is of about 99.9%. Even if the server were to be down, caching APIs would kick in and keep the app usable (offline, of course. But when the connection is recovered, changes can be uploaded to the server).

@Teloant: Yes, it would require building it from scratch. But the development process is far more simple (no compiling, etc.). On top of that, OS portability is a great advantage.

@Everyone: By making it a web app, the project will gain great community-related features such as commenting, rating, user-conversion (someone who doesn't necessarily frequent these forums or play Soldat could end up on our web app. after all, it IS a website. meaning that anyone can access it, any time), feedback, etc. The possibilities are endless.

Compiled programming, in my opinion, should always be the second option when developing software packages.

Offline VirtualTT

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Re: [Request] Weapon "MAKER".
« Reply #28 on: October 03, 2010, 12:18:09 pm »
Garciat: Nope, it won't act like a real app - it will be just cashed web page with some interactivity. And i don't know what kind of community-related features are actually necessary. This program will be probably used by ppl who are working on some soldat mods or messing with default balance. All they need is to edit weapons.ini quickly and try new changes in game. And then publish it somewhere or just use on their server. Take a look at TMS - just like modding mapmaking is mostly solo activity so even though sharing/rating discussing maps is quite common there is not so much life there :\ There are already places where you can share your mods. And making some kind of weapon balance modding portal doesn't make any sense.
Compiled programming, in my opinion, should always be the second option when developing software packages.
This makes me do facepalm. What are you talking about? There is no examples of any proper complete web-app software so far. Everything is "compiled". All the attempts to make something beyond web page with some interactivity fail hard (RIP Google wave). Some widgets to show weather or analog clock is the only thing they good for.

« Last Edit: October 03, 2010, 12:21:00 pm by VirtualTT »

Offline jrgp

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Re: [Request] Weapon "MAKER".
« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2010, 12:44:15 pm »
Garciat: Nope, it won't act like a real app - it will be just cashed web page with some interactivity.
To elaborate, what garcy's describing is website (I really, really hate using the word 'app' for web pages) that's entirely written in highly compressed and optimized JavaScript that sits in your cache so it's usable without an Internet connection. This sort of thing is spotty at best since it all disappears when you clear your cache.

@VirtualITT: How's that even an argument? If you play Soldat, you have an internet connection (what's the point of playing on your own?).
Most great mappers are great because they were stuck for long periods of time without Internet. They played against bots for a really long time and learned to take a closer look at maps. Soldat definitely is not a game that requires Internet access to be fun.

Compiled programming, in my opinion, should always be the second option when developing software packages.
This depends 100% on what it is you're developing.
Careful with that axe, Eugene.

Offline Garciat

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Re: [Request] Weapon "MAKER".
« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2010, 02:24:36 pm »
@VirtualITT & jrgp: On the cached 'app' system: it actually *will* (to a certain extent) work like a real app. You provide a manifest with the files that the browser needs to download from the server and store for offline use. Of course, there's no OS APIs, but it still works like an application.

@VirtualITT: I was wrong to assume the actual environment for weapon editing. My bad. I thought people created their own weapon sets to play on their own private/local servers (which is what I used to do when I played Soldat not so long ago). I found myself renaming weapons.ini to weapons-original.ini and then creating weapons-uber.ini, weapons-fast.ini, etc.. I then had to 'activate' each set manually by renaming the files. This then led me to making a small and simple site which allowed users to store their weapon sets online and then download their (and other people's too) sets to their local filesystem. This personal project is no longer available for use, however. Although I could revive it to show you how it worked (I still have the files).

Edit: Here's the the revived project: http://gbrlgrct.com/tools/soldat/
Note: I created this when I was not very experienced (ironically, not so long ago).

Now, as for my web>compiled statement: I probably went a bit too far there, but I still believe this wholeheartedly (although not to such extreme as you probably understood it). There really is no need to write native code to build something that doesn't use specific OS APIs such as filesystem access, multi-threaded processes, etc.. You can take TweetDeck as an example. It's built on Adobe AIR (HTML, CSS, JavaScript); this provides the software with OS portability (very important, IMO) and some OS APIs.

And there is a slew of 'proper complete web-app software' out there. Google: Mail, Calendar, Docs, Reader, Maps; Mint, Evernote, etc.

I will step down and say each one's got their fortes. We should instead focus on helping the OP. If you go with compiled code (I sense you will), I recommend you write it in C++.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2010, 05:40:52 pm by Garciat »

Offline Teolant

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Re: [Request] Weapon "MAKER".
« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2010, 05:12:54 pm »
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Yes, C++ is free.
This is good.

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In general, C++ requires much more skill and thought than C#, but the end result is better and you'll feel more satisfied with your work.
As I said, I don't know C++, and either I won't feel satisfied because I can't guarantee that it will be the best thing I can possibly produce with that programming language, or, I can take as long as I need to learn C++ in order to produce something of the same quality that I can make in VB.
I'll give this call to vehicledestroyer, it is his idea, after all.

Quote
If you go with compiled code (I sense you will), I recommend you write it in C++.
That'll be up to vehicledestroyer.

Offline vehicledestroyer

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Re: [Request] Weapon "MAKER".
« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2010, 09:18:54 pm »
That'll be up to vehicledestroyer.
I'll give this call to vehicledestroyer, it is his idea, after all.
We should instead focus on helping the OP. If you go with compiled code (I sense you will), I recommend you write it in C++.

Looks like I have some decision making to do. Right now I have know idea. Here's the way I see it:

Stay with VB .NET:
+ We (Teolant and I) are on the 4th build! We could be ready for public release in a week!
+ Teolant is an awesome programmer. He's like a robot, work work work!
- VB .NET is resource consuming for this simple program!
= As for the "Download argument" The .zip is only 46Kb. Checkmate!

Change to C++
+ Less resource hungry. Runs cleaner.
- Requires FULL rebuild. This will take more time.
- Teolant does not know C++ so I'll have to find a new programmer.
 
Quote
result is better and you'll feel more satisfied with your work
How so?

Web Application.
+ From the link what you have looks and woks great.
+ Design is great!
- I'll need a new programmer, I assume this will be Garciat. (The new programmer is the -. Not Garciat  xD)
- If we use what Garciat has it's about half a rebuild. If not a full rebuild. Still takes more time.
- I don't know how the mod making community will like it. Most of them don't use Weapon.ini editors and my program is made for them. I don't want to steer away my main clientèle.
= The whole online community idea is nice. But how big of a community could I build from a Soldat weapon.ini tool?

I need to think this over. I'll get back to you all tomorrow.

-Vehicle Destroyer-

P.S. VirtualITT. I liked Google wave. It looks like it has lots of potential. And what do you mean RIP? Did they drop the project?
I am a Soldat freelancer. I'm looking for projects and I have some of my own. I'm ready when you are...
My Projects:
Soldat weapon Factory 1.1
A community appeal
GTA II Mod

Offline jrgp

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Re: [Request] Weapon "MAKER".
« Reply #33 on: October 03, 2010, 10:49:56 pm »
Quote
result is better and you'll feel more satisfied with your work
How so?

The result is "better" as in, as you mentioned, less resource hungry and running cleaner with minimal dependencies.

As for the second part, if you actually enjoy programming and being satisfied with what you create, you'll probably enjoy looking at your C++ work over C#/VB since C#/VB pretty much does everything for you whereas you need to use your brain with C++ and put more effort in.
Careful with that axe, Eugene.

Offline VirtualTT

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Re: [Request] Weapon "MAKER".
« Reply #34 on: October 04, 2010, 04:12:56 pm »
This discussion made me write few lines of code, result looks like this:

« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 04:20:49 pm by VirtualTT »

Offline jrgp

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Re: [Request] Weapon "MAKER".
« Reply #35 on: October 04, 2010, 04:38:03 pm »
This discussion made me write few lines of code, result looks like this:


Just finish the job so this unnecessarily long conversation can end already. You posting that teaser shot will do nothing but make vehicledestroyer cream his pants in anticipation. If a clunky ajax interface gets picked over 7's glowy opaqueness he'll be pissed.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 04:40:55 pm by jrgp »
Careful with that axe, Eugene.

Offline vehicledestroyer

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Re: [Request] Weapon "MAKER".
« Reply #36 on: October 05, 2010, 02:15:48 pm »
Thanks for all your suggestions everyone! Sorry to disappoint anyone, but Teolant and I are almost finished and we're going to finish the project in VB .NET. Keep an eye out, we'll be releasing this soon!

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....make vehicledestroyer cream his pants in anticipation.
:o  ???

-Vehicle Destroyer-
I am a Soldat freelancer. I'm looking for projects and I have some of my own. I'm ready when you are...
My Projects:
Soldat weapon Factory 1.1
A community appeal
GTA II Mod

Offline SimeyJDude

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Re: [Request] Soldat Weapon Factory.
« Reply #37 on: October 14, 2010, 05:16:06 pm »
when's it gona be released?  ???

Offline vehicledestroyer

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Re: [Request] Soldat Weapon Factory.
« Reply #38 on: October 18, 2010, 02:01:09 am »
when's it gona be released?  ???

Sorry for the late reply. We're trying to be ready by the time 1.5.1 (or will it be called 1.6?) is released. And at this time there is no definite release date for 1.5.1. Before release, there will be a close beta and it's only open to Mod makers (and a select few). Keep a look out and check back for new, more frequent updates here, and on the first page (My post) of this thread. Remember, we are still taking ideas and suggestions. So... give them...

-The Soldat Weapon Factory Team-
I am a Soldat freelancer. I'm looking for projects and I have some of my own. I'm ready when you are...
My Projects:
Soldat weapon Factory 1.1
A community appeal
GTA II Mod

Offline vehicledestroyer

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Re: [Request] Soldat Weapon Factory.
« Reply #39 on: October 25, 2010, 03:53:01 pm »


Soldat Weapon Factory Beta version 0.5.1 is now open to all!

You must request a download link by posting a reply. As a beta tester we would would greatly appreciate your feed back, good or bad we'll take it. The poll has been rest, be sure to vote! Remember! We need ideas from YOU too post them here!! NOW!! 

!!- Important -!!

You will NEED the latest .NET update on your computer (.NET Framework 4) in order to run SWF. .NET updates can be big downloads, to download the smallest possible (only what you need) visit www.hanselman.com/smallestdotnet .NET is an important part of your computer, and will improve general functionality as a whole. (It fixed some Google chrome bugs for me  :D )

-The SWF Team-

P.S. Bullet Trajectory
« Last Edit: October 28, 2010, 02:08:42 am by vehicledestroyer »
I am a Soldat freelancer. I'm looking for projects and I have some of my own. I'm ready when you are...
My Projects:
Soldat weapon Factory 1.1
A community appeal
GTA II Mod