Unveiling The Official Soldat Web Gather

[thegrandmaster]

Chrome really does something wierd to it all...
FF: No page shifting or message overflow outside the box
Chrome: Page shifting and messages can exceed the boundaries
IE: Page shifting, but not overflow

[filip2322]

Maybe its no bug,but just looks different

[jrgp]

Maybe its no bug,but just looks different

You've got stuff cached beyond all belief. Do control + shift + r a few times

[filip2322]

Ok,second one

[jrgp]

Okay status update:
 - Gather webchat (combination of ajax and iframe comet) apparently mostly works
 - I've implemented an online users list

[thegrandmaster]

Soo... what's next?

[jrgp]

Soo... what's next?

haha the rest of the giant posts before you and I hijacked this thread with testing the chat.

[thegrandmaster]

Ya. We shoulda made a new thread... ah well.
So, back to leaderboards?

My thoughts are about multiple leaderboards for each gather-type.
Currently, looking at the gather page, the gather types (currently) are:
CTF 3v3,    (even though there are several servers for 3vs3 CTF, we would want them all to count to the same leaderboard category)
INF 3v3,
DM 1vs1,
DM 6-Player,
CTF 3vs3 (realistic)
and INF 3vs3 (realistic).

My idea involves each gather-type having different leaderboards to score under.

Some gather-types would have the same concepts for leaderboards (e.g. Every gather-type could have a leaderboard for who gets 1st ingame, 2nd and 3rd and assign points to players for achieving that).
However, some gather-types would need different leaderboards because they are different game-modes! 1vs1 DM would need to be treated differently to 3vs3 CTF..

UPDATE:

Take a look at the attachment. These are 3 separate league tables.
I've created theoretical ideas for leaguetables: Points (gained from winning games), and Caps.

Table 1:
Gather-type is 3vs3 CTF.
The leaderboard for this is based on points.
The example I've given is awarding 10 points for coming 1st, 7 for 2nd, and 4 for 3rd.

Table 2:
This leaderboard is also based on points, but using the results from the gather-type DM 6-Player.
Again, 10 points for 1st, 7 for 2nd and 4 for 3rd.

Table 3:
Gather-type is 3vs3 CTF again.
This leaderboard is based on data about caps.
Bob has the most caps, Bill is second.
I've added a tacky turquoise triangle on the column headings - the idea being that you could sort this table by either 'who has the highest total caps' or 'who has the most caps per game'.
And in this case, you can see that Bob actually has a lower caps per game, so he would be second and Bill would be first when ordered by average caps.

Tables 1&2: This is what I mean by having the 'same concepts'. They both calculate in the same way, but for different gather-types.

Table 3: This one is gather-type specific (as its pretty obvious that a deathmatch of any kind couldn't have a caps leaguetable!).

From: December 20, 2010, 03:46:22 pmChat not working :S IE just makes constant clicking...

[Illuminatus]

take this as an example for a great implementation of a ladder. it just sorts the best players who took part in the 1on1-gathers. so for example:
- you wanna play a 1on1-gather, so you login, press "join" and wait for another one joining
- the gather starts: you play two maps
- if one of the players wins both, the gather is over
- if not: another map is played to determine who wins the gather
- the players either gain some points for every map they have won (you'll for example gain more if you win one match 20:5 than just 20:17)
- or you do the more simple approach: the player who won two maps (and so the whole gather) will gain one "win"-point (<-- this sux because you will for example have 3 players who all won 5 gathers, who is the first now, who the second, ...?)
- you can now check the ladder, compare yourself with other players and yell out that you're the best 1on1-player on the web-gather (which is fun!)

but I would (at least for now) only add a ladder for 1on1-gathers. on other gather-types where you have to create a team you will come up with various problem and difficulties:
- you need to make a new page for teams. all the players of this team must be included there.
- if team A plays a 3on3 CTF-gather against team B you have to check that all the players really belong to their team, you need to make sure that no player is in two teams at the same time or maybe officially only is in one team but actually also plays for another team and helps them out...
this feels more like a league like the SCTFL where clans (a team with a fixed number of players) play on watched servers and have to report any game they played together with screenshots and stuff.
this doesn't really fit for a gather where you just want to play with some random people. you don't want to create a team, there is the IRC for this...

if you still want to add a ladder on a gather with more than 2 players you could get rid of the "teams"-idea and just let 3 randomeople play against the other 3 random people (if it's a 3on3 CTF-gather). there is no "winning" on this gather as a team (so no teamstatistics) but just for every player.
so everytime you play in some 3on3 CTF-gather you (as a player) gain points for winning a map. the more flags you capture, the more kills you do, etc. the higher the points you gain for the certain map. either only the first player (according to F1) gains some points or only the players of the "team" which won the map gain points.
in the end you could watch the ladder and see which player is the best 3on3-CTF-player.
which is uneccessary/uninteresting in my opinion. I don't really care how I played a 3on3-CTF-gather - I just play, have fun and forget it afterwards.

wereso to bring it back to wat I said above: only implement a ladder for 1on1. decide for the rest later. and don't mix up "stats" and "ladder". we still want stats for every gather which has been played (it's just fun to see which weapons were played most, which maps the least, etc.).

but talking about all this stuff - it actually would be much easier if you would ask the author of the soldatladder to use the same code or even bring both gathers together. you would then need to synchronize your web-gather-gui to the IRC-gather so that everyone sees who just joined a gather and stuff.
but.......aaaaahh...it's so complicated to find the perfect solution because you have different accounts everywhere:
- one account on the IRC (at least for quakenet)
- one account for the forum and the web-gather

if we could bind all these to your Portal-account together with your Soldat-registration it would be so much easier to have the "one-and-only-solution". but whatever...

I hope I didn't confuse you too much.

[thegrandmaster]

Whoa. You're right that a 1vs1 table is certainly the easiest one to implement.

- the players either gain some points for every map they have won (you'll for example gain more if you win one match 20:5 than just 20:17)

- The 'win' points is easy, but I think that calculating points from how much a player won by is better, as it's obvious that a guy that won 20-5 is a much better player at 1vs1 than another guy who only beat him 20-19.

- or you do the more simple approach: the player who won two maps (and so the whole gather) will gain one "win"-point (<-- this sux because you will for example have 3 players who all won 5 gathers, who is the first now, who the second, ...?)

- In the case of one 'win' point and 'several people with equal win points' - look at the http://www.soldatladder.net/1on1.php again.
Although they have multiple ways of calculating points it seems, they have extra columns such as Kill/Death Ratio which could be used to sort between two players of the same points.

However, I would be inclined to do as the #soldatladder have done, and calculate it some other way.
I noticed that even if you don't win, you still get points (as seen here: 968 | 0%. 968 points, 0% Win-ratio).
I was just writing a list of things you could calculate it by - but I think that #soldatladder's system works, is fair and would contain all that information anyway.


As for the ladder-by-team, I think that would get pretty complex and confusing..
Even though you'd be playing with random people I still feel that you can have ladders for individual players in team games.

on other gather-types where you have to create a team you will come up with various problem and difficulties:
- you need to make a new page for teams. all the players of this team must be included there.
- if team A plays a 3on3 CTF-gather against team B you have to check that all the players really belong to their team, you need to make sure that no player is in two teams at the same time or maybe officially only is in one team but actually also plays for another team and helps them out...
this feels more like a league like the SCTFL where clans (a team with a fixed number of players) play on watched servers and have to report any game they played together with screenshots and stuff.
this doesn't really fit for a gather where you just want to play with some random people. you don't want to create a team, there is the IRC for this...

Exactly. It should be random - not pre-organised teams. I think all these problems aren't problems when you look at an individuals score rather than that of a team.

if you still want to add a ladder on a gather with more than 2 players you could get rid of the "teams"-idea and just let 3 randomeople play against the other 3 random people (if it's a 3on3 CTF-gather). there is no "winning" on this gather as a team (so no teamstatistics) but just for every player.

Yees!

so everytime you play in some 3on3 CTF-gather you (as a player) gain points for winning a map. the more flags you capture, the more kills you do, etc. the higher the points you gain for the certain map. either only the first player (according to F1) gains some points or only the players of the "team" which won the map gain points.

I would see that as going against what would make the ladder for CTF interesting... The ladder would show who excelled in the game. If you happen to be put with a naff team, you still might be able to come top on the F1 list, yet still lose the game. The people who did this would receive no recognition even though they were the best player on the map.
I would be tempted to say it might be better to order it from the F1 list - 1st gains some points, 2nd gains less, 3rd less again.

in the end you could watch the ladder and see which player is the best 3on3-CTF-player.
which is uneccessary/uninteresting in my opinion. I don't really care how I played a 3on3-CTF-gather - I just play, have fun and forget it afterwards.

I get what you mean.. I disagree however... Ladders are all about who is the best out there - I'd be interested to see that.

wereso to bring it back to wat I said above: only implement a ladder for 1on1. decide for the rest later. and don't mix up "stats" and "ladder". we still want stats for every gather which has been played (it's just fun to see which weapons were played most, which maps the least, etc.).

Stats are a definite yes, would be interesting to see the trends unfold.
Ladders are less important, however I do agree that 1vs1 is the easiest and probably most fun/useful ladder to have and should be the first to implement.

but talking about all this stuff - it actually would be much easier if you would ask the author of the soldatladder to use the same code

I think using the same code is a good idea. Makes developer's life easier :L

or even bring both gathers together.

Hmm, not to sure about that idea.. This web gather is really good idea, partially because it's designed separate to the old IRC and it will have a whole different range of players.. also because:

you would then need to synchronize your web-gather-gui to the IRC-gather so that everyone sees who just joined a gather and stuff.
but.......aaaaahh...it's so complicated to find the perfect solution because you have different accounts everywhere:
- one account on the IRC (at least for quakenet)
- one account for the forum and the web-gather

From: December 21, 2010, 12:09:10 pm

- Gather webchat (combination of ajax and iframe comet) apparently mostly works

Chat box is working again, but experiencing baad lag issues. ¬.¬

EDIT: If you get these lag issues, switch to Firefox. No issues with lag there.

[jrgp]

I'm working on a lot of stuff but I decided to play with the layout a bit in firebug. Does this look better?

I zoomed out so it'll mostly all fit in the screenshot.

and heh you can also see my workspace

[thegrandmaster]

The chat is a much better size. Better layout indeed.

From: December 21, 2010, 04:24:17 pmAre you purposefully spamming the chat with .'s? :L Or can't you see my replies?

[jrgp]

Are you purposefully spamming the chat with .'s? :L Or can't you see my replies?

Yes it's broken for me right now.

[thegrandmaster]

Heh. I did wonder. Firebug playing up?

From: December 21, 2010, 04:40:02 pm*nvm

[jrgp]

Heh. I did wonder. Firebug playing up?

nah it was the random lag that did it. Seems to work now.

[thegrandmaster]

Do the servers running the gather have a limit on how many people inside...?

e.g. SPECTATOR feature

[jrgp]

Do the servers running the gather have a limit on how many people inside...?

e.g. SPECTATOR feature

Yeah the player limit is the same that's mentioned on the site. I'm still debating how I should have specs work.


I'd really appreciate feedback on the screen shot in this post:

I'm working on a lot of stuff but I decided to play with the layout a bit in firebug. Does this look better?

I zoomed out so it'll mostly all fit in the screenshot.

edit: I just implemented uniquely colored nicks.

[DorkeyDear]

I got an idea. I'm not sure how hte site looks once a gather has started, but it could be possible to have it so that once a gather started, a little "running gathers" category (or something) is at the top / bottom, and w/ list of pplz in it (and possibly more info in the future) with a "spectate" button or something. lets say 1v1 gather. while they are playing 1v1, others can play 1v1 kuz the old "lobby 1v1" is cleared. (creates a new soldat server instance if one does not exist i guess)

[chutem]

Yes, when a gather starts, put some extra info in its box, same place where you join - stuff like time played, caps, current map etc.

Also being able to start filling it up with new players while it is in progress would be really cool.

If you get this thing to have a slick interface, I can see it really taking off. I'm getting really pissed off having to deal with noobs on my team in inf RAGEEEEE

[thegrandmaster]

Yeah the player limit is the same that's mentioned on the site. I'm still debating how I should have specs work.

Alrighty - but as people have just said, it would be a nice feature.

I'd really appreciate feedback on the screen shot

OK, I'm just playing around with it in Firebug myself...