spaz is to overpowered

[Mallow007]

Can kill you faster that anyother gun (besides 1 hits) the nade +shot combo its just unstoppable. fix it
seriusly what is wrong with you balance ppl?

[Espadon]

What do you consider the ideal weapon balance to be?

[vehicledestroyer]

I have no opinion but hope this helps.

Damage % per pellet (6 pellets per shot)
Head  = 13.001%
Torsso = 11.305
Legs = 10.175

Shots per second = 1.9
Pellets (6 per shot) 11.3
Fire interval 0.533 seonds.

                                        Head     Torso     Legs
Seconds to kill                     0.68      0.78      0.87
Kills per second                   1.47       1.28      1.15
Kills per load                       6.24       5.43      4.88
Pellets to kill (6 per shot)      7.69       8.85      9.83
-Note hight spread on pellets at [Speed = 139]

-Calculations by SWF, codded by Teolant, formulas by me and help from Serial killer.

[killzonea59]

Awwww.
Leave the poor spaz alone. It has done nothing wrong to you.

There's nothing wrong with it, leave it alone.

[STM1993]

No opinion either.

Though I'm wondering if the idea of changing the Spas' spread has been considered by the testers. That idea was kinda interesting.

[demoniac93]

f11 You can't beat person with Ak-47 in far distance with spas.

You virtually can't beat anything with Spas at long range...

[Clawbug]

f11 You can't beat person with Ak-47 in far distance with spas.

You virtually can't beat anything with Spas at long range...

Maps these days are so small that you generally can't maintain such distances anyway, so the disadvantage of low bullet speed actually turns out to become an advantage these days.

[Monsteri]

Blah, just keep your distance and you will wine spazer- But get surprised wiht awesume speedrusher with spas! I got assraped to mouth like that yesterday, when nade threw him her against me.

[Clawbug]

Blah, just keep your distance and you will wine spazer- But get surprised wiht awesume speedrusher with spas! I got assraped to mouth like that yesterday, when nade threw him her against me.

In most currently popular CTF maps it's impossible to keep distance due to the fact that the maps itself are so small.

Note that I am talking about competitive side of things, where 3v3 rushing with Spas in small maps works great.

[Monsteri]

Yes, but player with automatic weapon has just same changes to kill spazer- and with ruger (needed a good player though) even more changes. Spas needs no changes.

[demoniac93]

I've been playing more Ctf than I usually do as of late, and with a Steyr I can take on pretty much any Spas user at close and medium range provided I don't get caught in a poly.

[Clawbug]

I've been playing more Ctf than I usually do as of late, and with a Steyr I can take on pretty much any Spas user at close and medium range provided I don't get caught in a poly.

Spas will fire two shots(effectively killing an enemy) faster than Steyr can kill an enemy.

[demoniac93]

I've been playing more Ctf than I usually do as of late, and with a Steyr I can take on pretty much any Spas user at close and medium range provided I don't get caught in a poly.

Spas will fire two shots(effectively killing an enemy) faster than Steyr can kill an enemy.

But the pellet speed is so low you can dodge simply by jetting straight up.
And this is something I say from experience. 

[Dusty]

public experience

[SoldatFire]

for me spas is perfectly balanced
*deadly on close range
*okay on middle 35%kill chance
*and on long fail
 like a shotgun should be    good balance for the weapon

[demoniac93]

public experience

Publics, gathers, and a couple of friendly CW's, even watched some pro guys playing in private servers before.
Don't be prejudiced, my friend.

[SoldatFire]

f11 You can't beat person with Ak-47 in far distance with spas.

You virtually can't beat anything with Spas at long range...

Maps these days are so small that you generally can't maintain such distances anyway, so the disadvantage of low bullet speed actually turns out to become an advantage these days.

LOL wait your idea is dumb a spas should be good at close range!!!! (if more map are small that sould be so)
its a shotgun!!! yes its better then 90% of weapons on close range but for that it is mean! your idea is that all weapons be good at close ?? then no one would use the spas! its like it is and should stay so -_-

[Clawbug]

public experience

Publics, gathers, and a couple of friendly CW's, even watched some pro guys playing in private servers before.
Don't be prejudiced, my friend.

Considering that Dusty plays* gathers/cws(on private servers, mind you! ) exclusively, I guess he has some insight on what he's talking about.

(*) At least used to play, back when I did so myself.. I don't even remember when. :O

Of what I can tell, Spas is definitely overpowered in certain situations especially in the "new" maps which have very little of open area and usually force to close quarters combat.

f11 You can't beat person with Ak-47 in far distance with spas.

You virtually can't beat anything with Spas at long range...

Maps these days are so small that you generally can't maintain such distances anyway, so the disadvantage of low bullet speed actually turns out to become an advantage these days.

LOL wait your idea is dumb a spas should be good at close range!!!! (if more map are small that sould be so)
its a shotgun!!! yes its better then 90% of weapons on close range but for that it is mean! your idea is that all weapons be good at close ?? then no one would use the spas! its like it is and should stay so -_-

No shit, sherlock! What I am saying is that considering the current trend of small maps, Spas can counter just about every single weapon almost all of the time without any obvious disadvantages, effectively rendering it overpowered, and overused.

[Monsteri]

Well, at close combat maps, players need to use short range weapons to get kills!?
When we are at other weapons, I think that default weapons should be like they were in 1.3.1, but only default- Except knife, I mean that it should be like it was in 1.3.1 in realistic mode too. To be honest, I never liked the way weapons turned on. Some are better now, some aren't. But -spas needs no changes. It's perfect and balanced like the way it is.

[DarkCrusade]

If I say the same thing over and over again ignoring everyone else I'm right!

[Mexer]

I agree, there are too many small maps these days and little chances to beat a spaser . The only solution would be that everybody picks spas and the game gets boring, right?

[SoldatFire]

even on a small map you can find a straight line and shoot a 50.cal bullet trough

ps.I had rly no problem with spas its a ok weapon and counter it with barrett cause he cant spray and cant get long range kills
and if you are good you can even counter a spas at close range with barrett

[ValiS]

its supposed to be good at close range - ok..

but why does it kill with 2 shots from 40 metres?
and if the user is lagging its even worse, often becoming a one-hit-kill wep with 8 bullets.

there are some players who always kill you with ONE spas shot, or sometimes leaving 4hp left (whiich is the name of one such player)

[SoldatFire]

i simply dont understand... when i play soldat they dont kill me 2 times with spas im or flying or shooting the spas-er down near evry time :/

[homerofgods]

In my opinion spas is not overpowered. Is it that good in pub/realistic/Dm or what? Because it's certainly not overpowered in the 'pro' community, as I see it.

[n2j3]

Spas is not overpowered in itself. I think it's the combination of crappy netcode and the multiple pellets that make it act in an erratic way. e.g. Some times it gains the accuracy and velocity of a barret, other times it acts like a tractor beam - returning flags to you etc. (those things rarely happen, but only happen to spas)

[Bistoufly]

but why does it kill with 2 shots from 40 metres?

I second that.

Fix this problem and spaz will be balanced imo.

[SoldatFire]

REALISTIC- BALANCED!!!!
STANDARD- TO underpowered you cant kill someone if you shoot all pelets in he's HEAD!!! and on long range its SHIT so stop complaining about random weapons and writhing shit its UNDERPOWERED

[Wes]

Not overpowered compared to Autos.

The spas is the only non auto that can come close to matching an Auto in competitive play such as in CTFL. Even so, autos rule this game. Forget the spas, bring the autos down with it or bring the other guns up to reach it's level.

the guns in this game are screwed.

[ginn]

The current wm is really good, no gun needs change for now (didn't play this season, but played a few gathers and cws).

[Vessus]

SPAS could be OP only on small maps like Guardian.

[TheOne]

In realistic (f.e. TW) mode, Spas is a long-range weapon.

[Mittsu]

it is super deadly at close range and these days im getting killed effectively by spas even in a long range (1 shot), it is overpowered

[chox]

imo if you have good skill with spas and you move fast to reach the needed distance then it's better than auto, but i don't see many spas players on gathers.

[machina]

Oh, finally someone saw that Spas on Realistic hits by one shot even on middle distance...

Enemy with full HP situated next to me dies from 14,0 meters...
Enemy with full HP situated under me dies from 21,5 meters or even more...

[Mittsu]

yeah, forgot to mention, i was talking about realistic. It seems like no one's at charge of realistic WM right now

[machina]

http://lrs-serv.net/status/?inc=weapons - This stats shows that Spas is the biggest use. All realistic players agreed with it that Spas is the most powerful and they use it a lot. It should be fixed. Rest of weapons are well balanced but this Spas is some bullshit!

[Jerkington XIII]

Heh, Ruger, my current main is a good second in there  . But i gotta agree with that spas does more than it should (e.g. killing a full-health guy with 3 pellets from Mayapan's bridge to below entrance. Yep, it happens, and even though I presume lags and such have a role causing that, it ain't that rare). Maybe I (or anyone who plays realistic. Would be better, as my connection has been fucked for some time now) should record spastard adventures (as in, impossible spas kills) to show why the other half of us hate spas.

[machina]

I've made some pictures (look up), but If I find time, I will make some demo...

[NamelessWolf]

Well.. I think something should be done about Spas and Ruger as those two gets more than twice as many kills as any other weapon (including grenades!).

It's nice to have those guns that kills with one shot under the right circumstances, but Spas should be short range only and Ruger should have some bink. It's not reasonable to have perfect aim after being shot by a few bullets from an auto.

Edit:
Apparently I was misinformed about just how much more Spas and Ruger topped the stats, but my suggestion for change still stands.

[Jerkington XIII]

Well.. I think something should be done about Spas and Ruger as those two gets more than twice as many kills as any other weapon (including grenades!).

It's nice to have those guns that kills with one shot under the right circumstances, but Spas should be short range only and Ruger should have some bink. It's not reasonable to have perfect aim after being shot by a few bullets from an auto.

Nah, not bink, too less of it is barely a change, too much (imagine a stray socom bullet hitting you just when you're about to shoot a guy) is stupid for the only precision gun. I mean, we already have Barrett, and it wouldn't be so much about skill, but luck.  I propose slower fireinterval, to put more emphasis on accuracy, not on mindless ruger spray.

As for spas, the bullets just should lose damage over distance.

[machina]

I propose slower fireinterval, to put more emphasis on accuracy, not on mindless ruger spray.

As for spas, the bullets just should lose damage over distance.

Yea, that sprays are so annoying. This is so fucked up funny while I spray with AK on Ash from roof of the on base... And then I get on bullet spray and I lose 90% of life. Spraying by weapons like that shouldn't be allowed. Incrasing FireInterval is a good idea for Ruger...

About Spas, you're right. Bullets lose Damage with game gravitation. So the more time in air they spend, the less HP they get. I think Spas should have lower Speed or Damage. Or both of these things because if someone shot by Spas to targets situated lower than player, bullets won't lose their Speed a lot.

[Monsteri]

This thread seems to be originally about the normal spas, and I know we are all talking about the realistic spas, which is in need of a nerf indeed. Maybe we should start a new thread for realistic spas, to keep things more clear?

[machina]

This thread seems to be originally about the normal spas, and I know we are all talking about the realistic spas, which is in need of a nerf indeed. Maybe we should start a new thread for realistic spas, to keep things more clear?

Argh... But all our ideas would have to be rewrtten...

[Jerkington XIII]

This thread seems to be originally about the normal spas

Where did you get such an idea?

[STM1993]

This thread seems to be originally about the normal spas

Where did you get such an idea?

Because the original post talks about how the Spas kills fastest other than 1-hits and also talks about the shoot+nade combo. In realistic, Spas IS a 1-hitter(given close enough range) and does not need such a combo to kill.

[machina]

Okay, but if creator wanted to make it only about Normal, he would add "[NORMAL]" in the topic. He didn't (probably because he did not read this forum rules) so we can talk about Realistic, too...

[NamelessWolf]

I couldn't imagine Spas being overpowered in "normal" mode. My thoughts are restricted to "realistic".

About the bink for Ruger it just makes no sence to have perfect aim after recieving a few bullets. Slower fire interval isn't the logic thing to change and I don't get the argument that too less bink would have no effect, but too much bink would be too much. Somewhere in between those two alternatives must be the perfect balance.

I think bink works fine with Barret. You can spray a sniper, but you have to be fast and hit well from a distance before he can shoot you. That's also a precision gun in a way, but it differs from Ruger by the fact that it has a scope instead of reasonably high fire interval.
I think bink for Ruger should work in the same fashion. A fast and good aiming Ruger shooter could still kill a bunch of enemies before reload, but he would have to be the first one to shoot most of the time to get many kills.

About Spas I agree that it should simply lose more of its damage after a shorter distance than how it is.

[machina]

Okay, we've talked with sense. Now, we just have to be heard. I'll try to troll about this topic on #soldat.devs and I hope they will change something. You can help by trolling devs with me.

[Monsteri]

That can't be called trolling, my dear.

[machina]

That can't be called trolling, my dear.

Trolling will be needed only if listeners don't listen us...

[Vucgy92]

Spas is to underowered in standard mode it needs 2 full (all pellets) shots to kill and that is at 1-20meters .
For further distances you just smile to the death.
And you say its owerpowered ? Fucking small fagot!

[chox]

Spas is to underowered in standard mode it needs 2 full (all pellets) shots to kill and that is at 1-20meters .
For further distances you just smile to the death.
And you say its owerpowered ? Fucking small fagot!

are you trolling?
spas in normal with nades is like m79 but you can defense yourself after the first shot

[machina]

@Vucgy92 Don't know who are you talking to, but we talked about REalistic lately... So fuck you then!

[ValiS]

Spas is to underowered in standard mode it needs 2 full (all pellets) shots to kill and that is at 1-20meters .
For further distances you just smile to the death.
And you say its owerpowered ? Fucking small fagot!

So you must be the BIG faggot then? If you have to shoot more than 2 times to kill from 1 m, then check your lag.

[Vucgy92]

Spas is to underowered in standard mode it needs 2 full (all pellets) shots to kill and that is at 1-20meters .
For further distances you just smile to the death.
And you say its owerpowered ? Fucking small fagot!

So you must be the BIG faggot then? If you have to shoot more than 2 times to kill from 1 m, then check your lag.

STFU u 10year old pussy its crap in standard and in realistic its balanced .

[machina]

in realistic its balanced .

Oh rly? How long you play Realistic? Or maybe you came for a few second on some server and that's all your experiance? Spas is truly unbalanced on Realistic. There are more much experianced players on Realistic those agree with it. If Spas is balanced then all other weapons are underpowered.

[NamelessWolf]

It's statisticly proven that Spas is used for the highest percentage of kills on realistic servers, so if any gun is overpowered it is the Spas. No question about that.

Though, there's always going to be some weapon on top of that list. I think Spas should hurt less on longer distance but only slightly and to really achieve weapons balance I think Ruger has to get some bink too. As of now Ruger isn't far behind the Spas and it would be very much overpowered if only Spas was to be powered down.

[machina]

Look picture with statistics. There's a huge diffrence between Ruger and rest of weapons (but Spas).

Everything is going slowly up and then Ruger and Spas ruin table...

[CheeSeMan.]

noobs can't aim gotta QQ.

[machina]

noobs

I hope you mean about Spas users...

[Vucgy92]

noobs

I hope you mean about Spas users...

and ruger users...

[machina]

and ruger users...

I can agree with that spasers... Ruger users are less newbies. Anyway, Spas in Realistic is too much overpowered what's annoing thing for players those always keeped with well balanced autos. I hope it will be fixed in new release...

[Bonecrusher]

I agree with the topics name

[machina]

I agree with the topics name

Yea, good you rushed topic, but there's still no answear from devs or Balance Mod Beta Team... -.-

[Vucgy92]

Abot realistic it is maybe ( me personally got no problem) overpovered

But about Standard mode will the DEV's make any changes it can't kill with 1 shoot!!! must be 2 full hits or 3-5 less pelets pretty stupid unbalanced and and ...

[Mexer]

In realistic (f.e. TW) mode, Spas is a long-range weapon.

Perfectly totally agree

[machina]

In realistic (f.e. TW) mode, Spas is a long-range weapon.

Perfectly totally agree

So keeping distance with auto isn't very helpful... That creates Spas overpowered while it still keeps with so huge Damage... I hope that Balance Mod team will finally care about that cause it's quite annoying to play on Leo's where half of enemy team keeps with Spas noobing game style... And I admit that map is cave styled.

[Mittsu]

whoever's responsible for realistic WM needs to do something about spas, its ridiculous as it is now