Author Topic: Current Roadmap for next version  (Read 9600 times)

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Offline zakath

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Current Roadmap for next version
« on: December 17, 2010, 05:38:23 am »
This is just a short update for what is happening with the next version of soldat.

* No portal.
* May be hardwareIds instead of the tagId from portal but its lowpriority.
* Bugfixes, we are focusing on stuff like map load times, fps issues, netcode issues and such.

Not sure if I missed something but then the other devs can fill that in.


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Offline freestyler

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2010, 06:18:05 am »
Are script features like InterfaceImage and such work as they did in 1.5.1 beta or they're deleted? Any other scriptcore updates?

Offline Mittsu

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2010, 06:18:27 am »
i have a question regarding MM's statement from 2 months ago

Hey,
I haven't read the thread. Just wanted to say that we agreed with EnEsCe to release 1.5.1 as quickly as possible with disabled Portal functionality cause that isn't finished and was lagging the development significantly. As far as I know just the dedicated server needs to be compiled on linux. After 1.5.1 is out I will make further announcments for Soldat's future.

could you just finish that compiling and release the version as it is (obviously as long as it hasn't got some critical bugs)? It has some useful stuff (for example DM bug fix) and i think people are dying to get it already. You could release next versions with other fixes later.
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Offline jrgp

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2010, 06:23:27 am »
i have a question regarding MM's statement from 2 months ago

Hey,
I haven't read the thread. Just wanted to say that we agreed with EnEsCe to release 1.5.1 as quickly as possible with disabled Portal functionality cause that isn't finished and was lagging the development significantly. As far as I know just the dedicated server needs to be compiled on linux. After 1.5.1 is out I will make further announcments for Soldat's future.

could you just finish that compiling and release the version as it is (obviously as long as it hasn't got some critical bugs)? It has some useful stuff (for example DM bug fix) and i think people are dying to get it already. You could release next versions with other fixes later.

The current development versions of the soldat client and dedicated server are incompatible with each other. That must first be remedied prior to a release.
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Offline Horve

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2010, 09:19:21 am »
indexing most of the default textures or converting them to uber-compressed png's (obviously without any transparency) would greatly increase fps. Same goes for default sceneries.

Also, looking into creating a soldat tutorial would be recommended, but further discussion of this should be left for the suggestions thread.

Godspeed and don't fuck anything up.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2010, 09:21:56 am by Horve »

Offline VirtualTT

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2010, 09:21:33 am »
indexing most of the default textures or converting them to uber-compressed png's (obviously without any transparency) would greatly increase fps. Same goes for default sceneries.
This would only increase loading times... Pngs need to be unpacked in memory  before they can be used for rendering.

Offline jrgp

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2010, 09:28:28 am »
Also, looking into creating a soldat tutorial would be recommended, but further discussion of this should be left for the suggestions thread.

As in fixing the manual or adding more useful things to the soldat wiki or something else?
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Offline Horve

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2010, 09:38:04 am »
indexing most of the default textures or converting them to uber-compressed png's (obviously without any transparency) would greatly increase fps. Same goes for default sceneries.
This would only increase loading times... Pngs need to be unpacked in memory  before they can be used for rendering.

That is most unfortunate, however I remember you mentioning something regarding a completely different file format for game graphics: dds, was it?

And by a tutorial I meant something like a map which would contain basic introduction to movements, a shooting range for target practice, introduction of all the weapons, an automatic turret which would fire at the player in order for the newcomer to learn to crouch, dodge, fly away and whatnot. I've found that many new players who join their first public servers for the first time get annihilated by more experienced players and then consider the game too hard, relentless and leave forever.
A single map like that would, in itself, not be enough, as the automatic turret would need to be scripted. The point would be to show the player how soldat works and then throw him into a server prepared.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2010, 10:59:47 am by Horve »

Offline jrgp

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2010, 09:38:51 am »
indexing most of the default textures or converting them to uber-compressed png's (obviously without any transparency) would greatly increase fps. Same goes for default sceneries.
This would only increase loading times... Pngs need to be unpacked in memory  before they can be used for rendering.

That is most unfortunate, however I remember you mentioning something regarding a completely different file format for game graphics: dds, was it?

Well what about converting the bigass bmp's to single-frame non-animated gif's? That'd totally lessen the filesize but I'm not sure about performance.
Careful with that axe, Eugene.

Offline VirtualTT

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2010, 10:03:19 am »
indexing most of the default textures or converting them to uber-compressed png's (obviously without any transparency) would greatly increase fps. Same goes for default sceneries.
This would only increase loading times... Pngs need to be unpacked in memory  before they can be used for rendering.

That is most unfortunate, however I remember you mentioning something regarding a completely different file format for game graphics: dds, was it?

Well what about converting the bigass bmp's to single-frame non-animated gif's? That'd totally lessen the filesize but I'm not sure about performance.
Using animated gifs wasn't a good idea from the begging. Using simple non-animated gifs is even worse. Not even speaking that gifs aren't suitable for full-colored images. And they don't even support alpha channel.

Compared with plain bmp, gifs and pngs reduce file sizes greatly. However they need to be programmatically unpacked (this step is resource-consuming since good compression requires a lot of resources to decompress) and only then sent to video memory so they can be used for rendering. Plain bmps don't require any decompression so they can be sent to video memory with minimum transformations (e.g. properly byte-aligned). Unlike all those previous file formats, dds stores images in the way they will be represented in video memory. So image can be loaded into video memory directly from HDD. Moreover de/compression methods dds supports are hardware accelerated so such textures can be present in video memory in compressed state while GPU unpacks them on the fly without performance penalties. Actually this approach saves a lot of memory. That why dds and / or similar formats are used in majority of games.

However i think that various soldat performance issues aren't related to texture formats (except for gif). So i don't see any point in converting everything into png of dds.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2010, 10:05:57 am by VirtualTT »

Offline Horve

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2010, 11:02:12 am »
<Vig> http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=37753.0
<Vig> is the polybug problem going to be addressed?
<Fryer> i've thought a bit about maybe trying to fix the polybugs
<Fryer> so i have some ideas about how to do that
<Vig> will it eradicate intentional bouncy polygons?
<Fryer> if i fix them i'll add a bouncy poly type
<Fryer> that will be stackable for more effect

Offline CheeSeMan.

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2010, 02:47:33 pm »
I just hope I can chase a low-hp efc without automatically dropping my weapon... and spawn without weapons reloading :D

anyhows sounds good! Good luck :)
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Offline jrgp

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2010, 04:22:15 pm »
indexing most of the default textures or converting them to uber-compressed png's (obviously without any transparency) would greatly increase fps. Same goes for default sceneries.
This would only increase loading times... Pngs need to be unpacked in memory  before they can be used for rendering.

That is most unfortunate, however I remember you mentioning something regarding a completely different file format for game graphics: dds, was it?

Well what about converting the bigass bmp's to single-frame non-animated gif's? That'd totally lessen the filesize but I'm not sure about performance.
Using animated gifs wasn't a good idea from the begging. Using simple non-animated gifs is even worse. Not even speaking that gifs aren't suitable for full-colored images. And they don't even support alpha channel.

Compared with plain bmp, gifs and pngs reduce file sizes greatly. However they need to be programmatically unpacked (this step is resource-consuming since good compression requires a lot of resources to decompress) and only then sent to video memory so they can be used for rendering. Plain bmps don't require any decompression so they can be sent to video memory with minimum transformations (e.g. properly byte-aligned). Unlike all those previous file formats, dds stores images in the way they will be represented in video memory. So image can be loaded into video memory directly from HDD. Moreover de/compression methods dds supports are hardware accelerated so such textures can be present in video memory in compressed state while GPU unpacks them on the fly without performance penalties. Actually this approach saves a lot of memory. That why dds and / or similar formats are used in majority of games.

However i think that various soldat performance issues aren't related to texture formats (except for gif). So i don't see any point in converting everything into png of dds.

Was tga considered at any point?
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Offline 10th_account

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2010, 01:02:19 am »
...

However i think that various soldat performance issues aren't related to texture formats (except for gif). So i don't see any point in converting everything into png of dds.

At least when it comes to load times, wouldn't it be an improvement to replace the BMPs with PNGs to reduce HDD read time?

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2010, 01:42:39 am »
PNG&APNG instead of BMP&GIF is the way to go. A good rate of compression, real transparency for animated stuff, no displaying issues caused by GIF.

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« Last Edit: December 18, 2010, 03:07:51 am by DarkCrusade »

Offline VirtualTT

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2010, 02:31:53 am »
Was tga considered at any point?
Soldat already supports tga. However tga can only use RLE compression which often gives the files of the same size as bmp.

Offline Monsteri

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2010, 04:45:11 am »
There really should be full Windows-7 and full-HD support.
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Offline Jerkington XIII

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2010, 05:14:10 am »
I am so for hardwareIDs! If I ban someone, I don't want him to come back in 5 minutes.
That. Go for it, so we can finally say Goodbye for good ol' troublemakerz(mainly m79 n' LAW-TKers and haxahs with proxies).
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Offline Illuminatus

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2010, 08:40:18 pm »
full-HD support.
This would be 1920x1080-resolution which is not 4:3 like it should be for Soldat but 16:9 which would distort the image. So what you want is a higher 4:3-resolution than 1600x1200.
But still, it would look like shit because all the game-graphics (except the GUI) have a quite low resolution so it would look really fuzzy.
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Offline Phobos

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2010, 06:40:24 am »
Can libjpeg-turbo (http://libjpeg-turbo.virtualgl.org/) be used in Soldat? I think "no" as Soldat is in Delphi, but I'm not sure.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2010, 06:43:16 am by Phobos »

Offline 10th_account

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2010, 09:24:48 am »
It's not very practical to use obscure formats. Can MS Paint save in jpeg-turbo? No.

Won't someone think of the modders?

Offline Denacke

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2010, 10:33:46 am »
libjpeg-turbo is just a library to rapidly encode / decode jpeg files, it's not a new jpeg file format. So yes, you can use paint to save in jpeg which that library could use.

That said, I don't see the point except for perhaps making screenshots jpegs to reduce filesize. As said multiple times before BMP is just a lot easier for the developers to work with and file size is hardly the issue.

Offline Meteorisch

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #22 on: December 25, 2010, 06:43:34 am »
Its not really necessary to convert those into jpegs. There are more important issues in this game.

If you don't like the filesize you just delete the screenshots. That easy is it.
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Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #23 on: December 25, 2010, 03:40:59 pm »
PNG sounds like a great choice, but I don't know much about performance issues it can cause. Personally, I never experienced any even on a map with 500 sceneries most of which were PNGs.

I remember seeing DDS used in many other games, so maybe it's worth a try with Soldat too? Of course editing it will be a bit of a pain since you'll have to convert images back and forth, but if it works right - I think it'll be worth it.


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Offline Hacktank

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2011, 08:23:35 am »
I always get freezelag/framerate issues on maps with huge quantities of polys; such as TW maps. Extremely inefficient poly-rendering could be an issue as well? (high end pc, so thats not the issue)

About the file format:
If the file format for soldats images was to change i would opt for either PNG due to lossless compression, or TGA due to good compression. Animation should not be done with another new format, it should be done with a sprite-sheet, IMO.

My opinion on optimal dev priorities (in order):
major bugs(framerate, wep drop, reload bug ect)
scriptcore stabilization
Ec. added scriptcore functionality completed
other new features & minor bugs


Offline Horve

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2011, 09:56:00 pm »
<Shoozza> http://shoozza.servegame.com/start2.exe <-- complete start.exe rewrite
<Shoozza> feedback kthxbye

<Vig> start.exe already exists and its darker tones are superior to those of start2.exe. Either way, is there any reason for the makeover?
<Shoozza> because the old one was written in xprofan
<Shoozza> a very unknown language which has only german tutorials and documentation
<Shoozza> what are the benefits?
<Shoozza> hoverbuttons, smaller size, no need to have skcontroll.dll, no need to have startgb.bmp, little bugfix, easier to extend.
<Shoozza> also it's not centered on the active screen
<Shoozza> instead of being at pos 200x200
<Shoozza> it looks very similar to the old one
<Shoozza> only the controls differ a bit

<Shoozza> x button added
« Last Edit: January 10, 2011, 04:55:55 am by Horve »

Offline Shoozza

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2011, 11:55:00 pm »
Damn leaks :P.
Btw the link doesn't work all the time you can't download it when I'm offline.
Also noticed a bug with the fonts so it's not really finished.

Edit
Thanks for the feedback in the IRC channels.
Fixed all the issues.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2011, 02:03:55 am by Shoozza »
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Offline Monsteri

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2011, 08:26:28 am »

There was discussion about ambience. But when I have started to think it, maybe it isn't good thing in the end. Everybody 12ed for it, but I'm damn sure there was coming gamemodes, like ''rock concert'', I think weathers sound is enough.

Rain should be VTT's one. Now It's not even noticeable.
Dumb ideas?
Btw, can you say when next version comes out, roughly?
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Offline freestyler

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2011, 08:29:49 am »
Are script features like InterfaceImage and such work as they did in 1.5.1 beta or they're deleted? Any other scriptcore updates?

Offline Illuminatus

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2011, 03:01:44 pm »
And what happend with all the bugfixes and improvements between 1.5 and 1.5.1beta? What version did you use as your coding basis?
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Offline Shoozza

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #30 on: January 05, 2011, 03:10:13 pm »

There was discussion about ambience. But when I have started to think it, maybe it isn't good thing in the end. Everybody 12ed for it, but I'm damn sure there was coming gamemodes, like ''rock concert'', I think weathers sound is enough.

Rain should be VTT's one. Now It's not even noticeable.
Dumb ideas?
Btw, can you say when next version comes out, roughly?

Next version comes out asap.
About the other stuff you said: no idea what you exactly mean.
But suggestions ideas and bugs don't belong in this thread.
We have subforums for that.

Are script features like InterfaceImage and such work as they did in 1.5.1 beta or they're deleted? Any other scriptcore updates?
Everything that was added to the server after 2.6.4 is possibly missing.
Make sure to remind us about what has been added and how it exactly works.

And what happend with all the bugfixes and improvements between 1.5 and 1.5.1beta? What version did you use as your coding basis?
All bugfixes till including client version 1.5.1.12 are there, however everything after that is possibly missing.
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Offline JohnnyFong

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2011, 12:42:57 am »

There was discussion about ambience. But when I have started to think it, maybe it isn't good thing in the end. Everybody 12ed for it, but I'm damn sure there was coming gamemodes, like ''rock concert'', I think weathers sound is enough.

Rain should be VTT's one. Now It's not even noticeable.
Dumb ideas?
Btw, can you say when next version comes out, roughly?

Next version comes out asap.
About the other stuff you said: no idea what you exactly mean.
But suggestions ideas and bugs don't belong in this thread.
We have subforums for that.

Are script features like InterfaceImage and such work as they did in 1.5.1 beta or they're deleted? Any other scriptcore updates?
Everything that was added to the server after 2.6.4 is possibly missing.
Make sure to remind us about what has been added and how it exactly works.

And what happend with all the bugfixes and improvements between 1.5 and 1.5.1beta? What version did you use as your coding basis?
All bugfixes till including client version 1.5.1.12 are there, however everything after that is possibly missing.

Then after the bugfixes, have you guys considered rewriting parts of the game in each new release (1.6, 1.7, 1.8, ...) and do bugfixes for the rewritten part in the minor releases (1.6.1, 1.6.2, 1.6.3, ...)?The outdated part (like the charater animation, a physics engine integration like http://www.box2d.org/ or http://howlingmoonsoftware.com/chipmunk.php to make fast interactive object and rigid body possible in the game) can be updated.

And according to MM 's post, he said that he might consider open sourcing Soldat if the thing works out well. Then have you guys consider to start replacing open source alternatives to the proprietary content in the game (if there is)?


Offline scarface09

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2011, 08:43:48 pm »
Hey I'd like the new version to come out before I start year 12 yeah?
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Offline Dusty

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2011, 09:39:42 am »
Without exact - or even estimated dates the developement begins to look like how it was before. Lack of public updates of the progress is not helping either.

Just hoping this will change in the (near) future with the new release.

Offline Illuminatus

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2011, 04:46:40 pm »
Lack of public updates of the progress is not helping either.
He is absolutely right. Tell us your progress. Tell us if you haven't done anything this week. Tell us what you're planing for the next week. Just tell us anything. Pls. We won't bite you. I don't see the benefit when you leave us in the dark and act like it will be a big surprise. The community needs to know that you are working hard. That's the reason why people could continue playing Soldat. If they know that something is going on behind the curtains and that this game is maintained.

Why don't you just post one-two sentences on what you are working at the moment once a week or so? Just like MM does it on his blog. It probably takes about 5min to do this. Make a new thread everytime you do this. So we can comment on the exact post you made. And after a while when you join this forum it will also look like there is much progress.

It's just annoying to read comments like these on some other threads: "Steady development *is* underway. Progress is being made. I'm not going to say anything more than that, but believe me, the new dev team is serving its purpose well."
Or to have to join the IRC to get some information.
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Offline Furai

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #35 on: January 14, 2011, 03:49:20 pm »
For me IRC is fair enough solution. :)
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Offline Clawbug

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2011, 06:11:23 pm »
How on earth can performance be a problem these days?

I don't know what kind of spaghetti code is being written, but having a 2D game lag on a 2 GHz dual core CPU and a high end graphics card from 2007 is really an achievement.

I really, really wonder why it's so slow. Heck, I'd claim that efficient 2D software renderer would work loads faster than the current DirectX spaghetti.
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Offline darDar

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2011, 09:42:22 pm »
There should be some kind of dev blog
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Offline Bonecrusher

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Re: Current Roadmap for next version
« Reply #38 on: February 15, 2011, 10:07:36 am »
There should be some kind of dev blog

Few people pointed that out already and that's why there's Soldat Developer Log

Im chill like that