ctf_eye

[thegrandmaster]

Ok. This is a wierd sorta design, but nevertheless...
Is there any future for this map? I kinda like it 

No sceneries so far (you'll see why) andd the texture is one of the defaults.

Thoughts?

UPDATE: ctf_eye2. Changes: added low and upper route w/barrier (thanks to KYnetiK)

[filip2322]

What about replacing the flags,as seen on um...cant remember name

I kinda like the fact that theres no scenery

[thegrandmaster]

ctf_hormone? yeah I've thought about that... it's a possibility
and yeeah, sceneries wouldn't really do much for this map!

[filip2322]

i think thats the name,i like the idea,looks like a anti-camp map because of the many routes

Anyway gg

[KYnetiK]

I really like the layout, except that I think it would be far more effective if you removed the semi-transparent areas at the top and bottom. These areas would be better if the player did not collide. If you intend on
 forcing players into the 'pupil', then maybe put a colliding wall only in the middle of those areas

[thegrandmaster]

Agreed. In my original plan I had the top and bottom routes, however your idea of that barrier in the middle to force them into the middle is great... implementing now... *watch this space*
check original post (+ overview attached here)

From: February 15, 2011, 02:41:23 pm+403 crazy waypoints xD

[Illuminatus]

Really nice layout! Something different.

One suggestion: Make all the parts which I marked white slippery (see attached image). This would imo perfectly prevent players from camping in the middle waiting for enemies entering the circle. And could also add some sort of acceleration-effect. It is worth a try I think.

EDIT: Another suggestion which just came into my mind. I always hate it when I overlook some enemy from beta-team just because of the blue background. So by not only mirroring the layout but also the colors you wouldn't solve this problem but at least make it fair for both teams.
Keep in mind that the attached image (colors.jpg) was retouched roughly with Paint.NET so thats why the color gradient looks so s**tty.
(Or you could just paint the background in some greyish/yellowish color to overcome this issue...)

EDIT2: Hm...but this is too colorful - I've added another image (colors2.jpg).
But maybe it's the best/easiest to just change the color-combination: so instead of the red platforms and the blue background choose completely different colors...maybe something like dm_Jungle (green, brown, etc) or maybe yellow & green or even just black & white & all greyish tones (like on the old TV-screens).
...ok, enough for today - what you think of them?

EDIT3: Damn, I can't stop. Well, this (greyshades.jpg) is the last one.
But I have no idea if you can accomplish something like this in Polyworks...

[filip2322]

The whole map reminds me now of a magnetic field+magnets

[GhostRiderSwiss]

i could actually create an awesome background sceneric which makes the eye living ^^ means real eye background^^ if ur interested i could start that and post it when i got it so far? got an idea with a crazy eye i've seen lately

nice map rly something diffrent!

[KYnetiK]

One suggestion: Make all the parts which I marked white slippery (see attached image). This would imo perfectly prevent players from camping in the middle waiting for enemies entering the circle. And could also add some sort of acceleration-effect. It is worth a try I think.

Werent they were already slippery?
I thought it was silly having red platforms that didnt kill/burn you.


Anyway, from an artsy-fartsy point of view:

[GhostRiderSwiss]

i like ur version kynetik specially the scenery iris in mid a litle more, and thats what i was thinking about ^^

[thegrandmaster]

Really nice layout! Something different.

Why, thankyou

One suggestion: Make all the parts which I marked white slippery (see attached image). This would imo perfectly prevent players from camping in the middle waiting for enemies entering the circle. And could also add some sort of acceleration-effect. It is worth a try I think.

I have thought of that already - they are already ice xD

EDIT: Another suggestion which just came into my mind. I always hate it when I overlook some enemy from beta-team just because of the blue background. So by not only mirroring the layout but also the colors you wouldn't solve this problem but at least make it fair for both teams.
Keep in mind that the attached image (colors.jpg) was retouched roughly with Paint.NET so thats why the color gradient looks so s**tty.
(Or you could just paint the background in some greyish/yellowish color to overcome this issue...)

I see the issue of colours here..

EDIT2: Hm...but this is too colorful - I've added another image (colors2.jpg).
But maybe it's the best/easiest to just change the color-combination: so instead of the red platforms and the blue background choose completely different colors...maybe something like dm_Jungle (green, brown, etc) or maybe yellow & green or even just black & white & all greyish tones (like on the old TV-screens).

I prefer colors2 to the other one, since it's less powerful on the eyes..

EDIT3: Damn, I can't stop. Well, this (greyshades.jpg) is the last one.
But I have no idea if you can accomplish something like this in Polyworks...

Accomplishable, yes - pretty sure it is. If soldat could be black and white, I'd do it ftw

I thought it was silly having red platforms that didnt kill/burn you.

Now that you mention it, so do I!
I like the sceneries you put in. It's very hard in this map to put any sceneries in, but these look pretty good. Did you make this in polyworks? If so, please attach it to your post! Along with the sceneries

From: February 16, 2011, 04:04:56 amHows about this?
---------------------
Changed BG colour
Iris added
Light added
---------------------

[Suowarrior]

Lights off, for reason not screwing the gameplay for fancy overview pic.

[thegrandmaster]

I don't see how the light screws gameplay...
illuminatus said that the blue-ness made it harder to see the bravo players, so I thought that putting in a whiter light in the middle might help that? But anyway... it was just another thought.

I do like KYnetiK's version, with its stylised-ness!.. (hence why I want him to upload it).. but illuminatus' point about bravo is valid, so some changing of bg colours may be needed.

[KYnetiK]

All I did was a simple draw-over, no map editing.

Now my crits;

- you should make the outer [previously red] platforms bound to a circle like my last pic. You have it all squared off and frankly it looks retarded that way.
- I like the colours you picked for the previously red areas. Everything else - not so much. The blue tinge on the inner circle looks cool though.
- the middle wall for the upper and lower passages look odd to me. You have them the same colour as the inner circle polys. In my pic I made them the same colour as the map boundary itself. I think it looks better that way.
- lights look tacky, Suowarrior makes a good point.
- I drew the pupil in my pic just for a personal giggle - you dont really need it. I was just thinking of an AI controlled laser turret in the middle and it made me laugh.

[thegrandmaster]

All I did was a simple draw-over, no map editing.

Dang.

- you should make the outer [previously red] platforms bound to a circle like my last pic. You have it all squared off and frankly it looks retarded that way.

I hadn't actually noticed that! But yeah I get your point, agreed - implementing now...

- I like the colours you picked for the previously red areas. Everything else - not so much. The blue tinge on the inner circle looks cool though.
- the middle wall for the upper and lower passages look odd to me. You have them the same colour as the inner circle polys. In my pic I made them the same colour as the map boundary itself. I think it looks better that way.

I'll do that too...

- lights look tacky, Suowarrior makes a good point.

Am removing it xD

- I drew the pupil in my pic just for a personal giggle - you dont really need it. I was just thinking of an AI controlled laser turret in the middle and it made me laugh.

I sorta like it makes it look more like an eye, and part of the styling of it.

[Illuminatus]

Well, the pupil looks nice but now the players will think it's solid. So you should lighten it up (see my bad try in the attached image).
And make the the ground under the alpha-base red (see red arrow).

Btw: I like the colors and shading of the (formerly red) platforms very much. Looks nice.

[thegrandmaster]

*attaches image*

Well, the pupil looks nice but now the players will think it's solid. So you should lighten it up (see my bad try in the attached image).

I've made it more transparent if that's what you meant...

And make the the ground under the alpha-base red (see red arrow).

Done!

Btw: I like the colors and shading of the (formerly red) platforms very much. Looks nice.

Good good

[Monsteri]

Uhmm.. Maybe add a bit colour to it? (means the pure black area)

[thegrandmaster]

It's not entirely black, the outer fades to a slightly lighter grey. (updated screenshot with a lighter outermost bit)..

[Monsteri]

lies. I bet it was just black. I'm sure..?

[thegrandmaster]

ermm it was R:15, G:15 and B:15, though now altered so it is even lighter - enough so you can see, on the outer edge of your screen, the first signs of fading while you play.

EDIT: it is now R:55, G:55 and B:55

[Illuminatus]

The eye looks good now.

But you've changed the colorgrading of the plattforms D:
Before: dark brown to white
Now: some red flavour to white (too red imo)

Yes, I'm picky. :p

Also, I'm not sure if I like the dark outside area. Have to test it out ingame...
EDIT: Pls post the pms-file.

[thegrandmaster]

EDIT: put shading back to more browny overtones
added sliiight light in the middle.

btw, the attached map has waypoints from several versions ago (but the map's shape has changed a bit since then so... might be a bit bad). Also, the Iris image and the lil bit of light.

[Monsteri]

Light is good. Ground isn't.

[thegrandmaster]

Ground as in?? Suggest something instead of stating blank opinions.

+ possible faint scenery?: attached

From: February 16, 2011, 12:44:50 pm+ possible outside change attached

[demoniac93]

Nice idea, I see some nice mass murders in the "pupil"

[thegrandmaster]

uhuh. yhea.

[KYnetiK]

Lookin good so far.

What I think you need to do is shade the outside of the map to make it look like part of a face carved out of rock. So shade in like the ridges of the eyelids, eyesocket, edge of nose/cheekbone etc so it has some depth and fades to black. Maybe even make the pupil some wicked energy source that is harmful to touch.

Example attached

[thegrandmaster]

shade it? or scenery it?

[Illuminatus]

+ possible faint scenery?

Looks nice and doesnt distract. Keep it.

What I think you need to do is shade the outside of the map to make it look like part of a face carved out of rock. So shade in like the ridges of the eyelids, eyesocket, edge of nose/cheekbone etc so it has some depth and fades to black.

Nice idea.

Maybe even make the pupil some wicked energy source that is harmful to touch.

This one not. It would decrease the speed of the map too much.

[KYnetiK]

Shade the boundary polys like you would any other rock, just contour it like an eye-socket. This also has the benefit of allowing you to create map 'sequels' based on other areas of of the face such as the other eye, the mouth, brain etc, revealing an enigmatic temple of your imagination. It might even be interesting to 'stitch' them together in future.

I had the idea of energy sources or relics as a quick solution to having a pupil scenery that looks good, and can tie in to a theme. As far as this map is concerned, yes it would slow down some of the gameplay, but this depends on a lot of factors which are not yet set in stone - such as number players, actual geometry, and overall scale proportions.

 Simply halve the size of the red orb in my last pic, and you could argue that it would still be a hazard whilst not being obtrusive.

[jerich]

looks like a anti-camp map because of the many routes

Anyway gg

Here's some criticism:

I don't care if the whole map is ice, anyone could sit at the top route all day and not only camp the the middle, but easily has the same amount of accessibility to the flag spot. Oh wait, there's more. Not only can one person effectively handle one half of the map camping top, the nade placement makes it easy for the player to spam into the middle.

The whole map is so linear that each of the player spawns are great areas to spray into to the tunnels exiting the pupil area. Those tunnels are like spraying low in Nuubia's red base, but into a smaller space.

[thegrandmaster]

okay.. here it is

[Monsteri]

Looking good+hilarious! Could it be now time for final release?

[demoniac93]

Well, it certainly looks more like an eye now.
I like it even more this way, definitely want to play it.

[SoldatFire]

looks good but i don't see any tactics its simply all in the middle circle and shoot at everything that moves    i vote 7/10

[thegrandmaster]

Oh wait, there's more. Not only can one person effectively handle one half of the map camping top, the nade placement makes it easy for the player to spam into the middle.

I shall remove the grenade spawns from top and move them to inside the bases... quickest thing to do.
Any suggestions appreciated.

The whole map is so linear that each of the player spawns are great areas to spray into to the tunnels exiting the pupil area. Those tunnels are like spraying low in Nuubia's red base, but into a smaller space.

Really not that easy to combat this. Neither do I feel this is too much of an issue based on the amount of available routes. But again, any good suggestions welcomed.

Well, it certainly looks more like an eye now.
I like it even more this way, definitely want to play it.

Unless jerich (or someone else) have some ideas of how to improve it from how it is now, I shall release it.

[KYnetiK]

Lookin good! Nice work!


Now I think the most issues now are tactical. Its time to stick as many players into the map as possible and just see how we play and how it could be changed. I do have a couple of pre-game thoughts;

- I think those upper nade packs are a bit exploitable, but at the same time so are the nadepack placements in most default maps. Maybe place some on a low route to balance things out a bit.

- as a pretty efficient sniper who constantly rotates around the map, I can see a few lines that are easy pickings for me. Ive attached some examples of problematic lines of sight that I would really exploit, so you need some colliders around the place.

- drawing out these lines also shows minor flaws in your symmetry, you might want to explore that.

- maybe consider making the pupil a bullet-collider, but not a player-collider.

- waypoints?

[Illuminatus]

- as a pretty efficient sniper who constantly rotates around the map, I can see a few lines that are easy pickings for me. Ive attached some examples of problematic lines of sight that I would really exploit, so you need some colliders around the place.

barret bullets don't fly straight. many of your lines are not possible or at a very very low range. and hard to actually kill someone.
on the other hand: don't always condemn the snipers. the barret has the zoom-feature. trying to prevent any possiblity to use it on a map is not...fair imo. of course there should be no camping points where you can easy spawnkill the enemy from your base. but kneeling somewhere and zooming is no crime. so please don't put colliders everywhere.

- maybe consider making the pupil a bullet-collider, but not a player-collider.

then it would be really hard to kill a fleeing flagger. if not nearly impossible if you need 2-3 sec to respawn (and if you don't have any possiblity to snipe him).

and btw, @thegrandmaster: don't try to make your map the perfect map. it never will be. there is no perfect. every map has "flaws". it's about the fun, not about making it camper-proof or perfectly symmetrical or something. if you keep on removing and polishing it will be a circle in the end...

[thegrandmaster]

Lookin good! Nice work!

Thanks

- I think those upper nade packs are a bit exploitable, but at the same time so are the nadepack placements in most default maps. Maybe place some on a low route to balance things out a bit.

errr...

I shall remove the grenade spawns from top and move them to inside the bases... quickest thing to do.

- as a pretty efficient sniper who constantly rotates around the map, I can see a few lines that are easy pickings for me. Ive attached some examples of problematic lines of sight that I would really exploit, so you need some colliders around the place.

There will always be L.O.S for snipers somewhere. Most of those lines are pretty impossible because of the dipping as Illuminatus has said. But I will explore the map myself with a barret and see.

- drawing out these lines also shows minor flaws in your symmetry, you might want to explore that.

Whenever I made alterations to one side, I deleted the other side and duplicated&flipped the one I edited so that it was always symmetrical. I can't see where you mean

- maybe consider making the pupil a bullet-collider, but not a player-collider.

For me, this would cause absolute mayhem. People would kill themselves with nades and m79 in the middle! Would make EFC tracking much harder... I'd disagree on this one, but I know why you suggested it.

- waypoints?

There are waypoints on it (405 of them o.0) but that was for a previous version before the outside of the middle bit became more circular. I shall delete and re-waypoint at some point.
It's a hard map to way-point, especially the middle... bots like the low route way too much xD

- as a pretty efficient sniper who constantly rotates around the map, I can see a few lines that are easy pickings for me. Ive attached some examples of problematic lines of sight that I would really exploit, so you need some colliders around the place.

barret bullets don't fly straight. many of your lines are not possible or at a very very low range. and hard to actually kill someone.
on the other hand: don't always condemn the snipers. the barret has the zoom-feature. trying to prevent any possiblity to use it on a map is not...fair imo. of course there should be no camping points where you can easy spawnkill the enemy from your base. but kneeling somewhere and zooming is no crime. so please don't put colliders everywhere.

Agreed.

- maybe consider making the pupil a bullet-collider, but not a player-collider.

then it would be really hard to kill a fleeing flagger. if not nearly impossible if you need 2-3 sec to respawn (and if you don't have any possiblity to snipe him).

Again, agreed.

@thegrandmaster: don't try to make your map the perfect map. it never will be. there is no perfect. every map has "flaws". it's about the fun, not about making it camper-proof or perfectly symmetrical or something. if you keep on removing and polishing it will be a circle in the end...

Hahaa  yeah I know. It should be fun when finished.

From: February 19, 2011, 04:18:19 amedit: I've tested the sniper spots... tbh, due to the many routes, any one of those spots becomes almost useless because the probability of a player choosing a specific one is small.
The one from the flag to the other is impossible, the bullet dips and hits the base of the caruncula where the other flag is. It's even difficult to do that, as you have to shoot from a slidy ice surface...


From: February 19, 2011, 04:20:41 am+ the minimap does look pretty awesome

[KYnetiK]

I know how the barret works, and Im saying if I aimed across those directions they are very useful, especially with the curve and ricochet. I dont want colliders everywhere - im a sniper - but it needs one or two to prevent too-easy tunnel kills. Dont forget, the odd collider makes for some fun with nades also.

And on the pupil collider you have a point - it makes it harder to chase and spray. I forget that there are times where this is a useful tactic.

[Blacksheepboy]

Ah, why did I delete my Soldat and Polyworks directory?

[thegrandmaster]

Ah, why did I delete my Soldat and Polyworks directory?

Dunno!
You like it that much? xD

[Blacksheepboy]

I'd probably try to waypoint it is what. LOL at the thought of attempting!

[thegrandmaster]

I've tried waypointing... 405 waypoints o.0 though the map has changed shape since then -.-
Will do it again - or if you want to do it, be my guest!