Stop what you're doing and laugh at the U.S.

[demoniac93]

@DC: Ugh, the church's teachings are public, the church's documents were not up until sometime ago. I'm basing my arguments on the teachings, which the documents backed up once they were surfaced.

@Croat1:
John 14:6 "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father but by me."

Matthew 11:27 "All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him."

Gets pretty obvious after that.

Also, The Bible mentions several times that even his apostles were scared to death after his crucifixion, a fear which clouded their judgment because they couldn't believe that a God could die. They were forgetting that Jesus was embodied to die for our sins, and also, to show people who argue "We can't be perfect like God tells us to, he never had to live in a human body" that he DOES understand us.

[DarkCrusade]

The problem I have with modern theology is, that they claim Jesus' death a sacrifice of God to himself to deliver all humans from sins.

[croat1gamer]

What is the problem with that?

[Mangled*]

@demoniac: Do you understand what bias is?. Do you not think Catholic institutions are more likely to bias the infomation they present in favour of Catholicism? Particularly to their own followers such as yourself?

Try get your information from non-biased sources. Encyclopedias and science journals are a good start. You're using the internet right now! Just type "Catholic Church controversy" into a non-biased search engine like Google.

Who knows, you might actually see outside that snowglobe of faith, comfort and wishful thinking that you've been living in.

[demoniac93]

Haha, you're a funny guy, I like you.
My beliefs are what make me miserable 80% of my life.

Don't think that believing in God is all rainbows and sugar-coating, it's a tough mentality to live with, but it makes the good times that much better every single time.
Also, the church is indeed unbiased, why else would it always admit it's mistakes and even dismiss the work of the crusades as being a glorified act? Why else would it be the very first to question any Christian's sainthood?

I've tried looking for "non-biased" sources other than the church, and found zilch. Because almost every single one was written by another anti-religion pushing atheist.

It's a sad world.

@DC: What problem do you have exactly? And why the sudden change of subjects?

[Mangled*]

My beliefs are what make me miserable 80% of my life.

Don't think that believing in God is all rainbows and sugar-coating, it's a tough mentality to live with, but it makes the good times that much better every single time.

My beliefs make me happy, maybe you should consider dropping yours if they make you miserable.

Also, the church is indeed unbiased, why else would it always admit it's mistakes and even dismiss the work of the crusades as being a glorified act? Why else would it be the very first to question any Christian's sainthood?

I've tried looking for "non-biased" sources other than the church, and found zilch. Because almost every single one was written by another anti-religion pushing atheist.

It's a sad world.

Of course the church isn't unbiased, don't be ABSURD. Do you know why they admit their mistakes? Because their mistakes are documented and they can't deny them when there's evidence. We live in the information age, not even governments can hide their mistakes now.

You've found zilch because you don't want to find anything. Why are you so afraid of discovering that you could be wrong?

Yeah, everything is a conspiracy, every scientist and intellectual in the world is an atheist and it's just so twisted! We actually make fossils in a factory and then we hide them for people to find. Satellite imaging and the moon landings are faked and really the Earth is flat and on top of 4 giant elephants on top of a giant tortoise. GPS is a lie! Nuclear power is fake. We're not made of atoms we're made of dust and ribs. The Sun revolves around Earth. All medicine is placebo and only prayer makes you better. The wheel was invented 500 years ago. Black holes are an illusion created by Satan. There is no such thing as DNA. Dinosaurs never existed, they're just CGI like Jurassic Park. The Holocaust didn't happen. There's no such thing as pollution. Ionizing radiation doesn't exist, it's a myth. Electricity is witchcraft but we can use it as long as we love Jesus.
ALL SCIENCE IS EVIL AND A LIE! ITS AN ATHEIST CONSPIRACY!!!!

[croat1gamer]

Oh man, i think this will be the first time to use a meme for a serious reason:

[jrgp]

Oh man, i think this will be the first time to use a meme for a serious reason:
(pic)

The rest of the images in that meme series are also appropriate for the discussion at hand.

[Blacksheepboy]

I've often wondered about this.. but I guess they did have free will! [shrug]. Eh.

ALL SCIENCE IS EVIL AND A LIE! ITS AN ATHEIST CONSPIRACY!!!!

It's a nice stereotype anyway

[croat1gamer]

OH YEAH. YOU MEAN THE FREE WILL WHICH ALLOWS THEM TO FOLLOW GODS RULES OTHERWISE THEY WILL BE ETERNALLY DAMNED?

@ jrgp- Not exactly, some of them could be easily debunked and some are partially offensive to be used in this kind of discussion.

Oh, and ive got to find a discussion where was a similar topic. (not here though)

[DarkCrusade]

@DC: What problem do you have exactly? And why the sudden change of subjects?

I was adding something to Croat's post.

What is the problem with that?

The act of sacrificing a thing or a living object is an act of praising/appeasing a higher being/higher goal. The act of God sacrificing his own son to himself stands in contrast to the definition of a sacrifice. How could God praise himself by sacrificing his own sown to himself? He can't. Appease? I'd get rather angry about myself. Higher goal? The goal was to deliver all humans from sins. Since God is seen as a being which suffers from all the sins humans carry with them - at least modern theology says that - it's unnatural that he sacrifices his own son to himself to alleviate his pain.

[croat1gamer]

Sacrifice =/= Self-sacrifice. KTHXBAI.

[Blacksheepboy]

OH YEAH. YOU MEAN THE FREE WILL WHICH ALLOWS THEM TO FOLLOW GODS RULES OTHERWISE THEY WILL BE ETERNALLY DAMNED?

Yeah. That one.

[iDante]

Oh man, i think this will be the first time to use a meme for a serious reason:
(pic)

On that note:
Genesis 2:17, god says to Adam:

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

This is a blatant lie, they eat it and don't die! Not only that, but this supposedly great god is telling mankind to NOT understand ethics or morals, instead he should live ignorantly. That's not the kind of god I want to follow. Fortunately a savior shows up.
Genesis 3:4-5 the serpent says to Eve:

Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

The serpent tells the truth where god lied. The serpent plays a metaphorical prometheus, teaching humans about good and evil, opening their eyes. That dude sounds pretty tight.

It's still all a collection of fairy tales though.

[TheOne]

With all the highly intellectual discussion and reasoning..
I sometimes ask myself, where does it lead to? (Most) christians live a happier life, do more good, and die much happier. Also there's still the chance of 0.000*1%, that there is a heaven, oh joy. :-)

I already hear you crying for proof... no need! While proof will not be able to convince a certain one, experience can.

[iDante]

(Most) christians live a happier life, do more good, and die much happier.

That's a lie.

It leads to the removal of all religion from the world and puts it into its proper place: history classes. Several hundred years into the future this will hopefully be the case, but only if it's openly discussed today.

[croat1gamer]

@ iDante- Marry me.
Finally someone else who noticed the link.

Found my wall-o-text stuff related to that. Will place it here in ~30min.

*placeholder goes here*

[Blacksheepboy]

(Most) christians live a happier life, do more good, and die much happier.

That's a lie.

whatever, give me proof it's a lie fucker. I call you out for saying that answer came out your gut, and nowhere else, especially nowhere intelligible.

[croat1gamer]

Most christians could be summed up in the western world.
Most cases of depression, violence and stuff is happening there.

[homerofgods]

Does this mean the discussion is comming to an end? If so, I'd like to say one last thing..
If you asume there is no God, everything makes sense.
If you asume there is a God, you will get tangled into the depts of discussions trying to find answers that aren't there.