A question for the atheists

[croat1gamer]

Bruce Sheiman, because fuck you extremists.

[pavliko]

Why do atheists argue about God, even though they do not acknowledge his existence? Why waste so much time trying to prove [In vain] that something does NOT exist?

Because all they want is to cure this disease called 'opium of the people'...

I personaly studied religons pretty hard and all what I can say it that religion it self is a corrupted human idea/will, complete bulls**t..
I Argue with people about god, but I won't argue with fanatic religion zombies(How I call them) who reject any logical explanations & facts.


"THEY DO IT BECAUSE THEY WANT A BETTER WORLD AND NOT SOME SICK BULLs**t"


Now please, close this topic before someone gets hurt by this religion stuff...

[demoniac93]

Uno: I can disprove it, easy as pie, really. Matter doesn't come from nothing, therefore the big bang could not have occurred because there was nothing that could go "bang".

Energy can change into matter. Besides, who told you in the beginning there was nothing? your god?

That it can, my friend, but energy is also non-renewable, it's continuous.
So basically, you still haven't traced any of the origin of universe theories to their beginning.

Why do atheists argue about God, even though they do not acknowledge his existence? Why waste so much time trying to prove [In vain] that something does NOT exist?

Because all they want is to cure this disease called 'opium of the people'...

I personaly studied monotheism religons pretty hard and all what I can say it that religion is corrupted, complete bulls**t..
I Argue with people about god, but I won't argue with fanatic religion zombies(How I call them) who reject any logical explanation.

Really? Why try and "cure" something that is more of a healing force than a disease?
Also, as I've said TIME AND TIME AGAIN, religion isn't corrupted, at least not the religions that revolve around the "heavenly" God [Aka Allah/Adonai], it is the people who fuck up, either because of their misinterpretation, disregard, or hypocrisy - God isn't literal.

[pavliko]

All 3 major monotheism religions are corrupted.
And why cure? Because I did make it to cure a 'lost soul(How you call it in religions)', and not one..
I should start an Atheism movement btw D:

[echo_trail]

OK, so they want those people to believe that the universe came to be, because some s**t out of nowhere expanded and blew up, and that no matter what we do in life, we eventually die, and that's it?

You know, Vijtch made a pretty good point up there, and it worries me that after reading through his post(which is something I assume you've done), you ask the question he just spent who knows how long to write.

The lack of afterlife is only a discouraging prospect if you used to [or do] believe there is one. As for me, I've always been used to the idea of life being "it", and then you die. Still, it's not like I look at my upcoming death, and feel sad about it. If anything, it spices up and improves my experience of life, 'because I know it's not forever.

Wow, way to keep the morals up.

If that's your angle on believing in God, I believe you're as false as you claim our convictions. Science isn't about telling the truth the way people like to hear it, it's about telling it the way it is. People have gotten it wrong many times in the past, no doubt about it, but I'll say that's true for religion as well.

Sometimes, my friend, ignorance is bliss, and that's the greatest favor  an atheist could do to anyone, let them live in their ignorance, if they  truly believe God doesn't exist.

That is actually a fair point, I'd say. I guess basically people strive to expand on their beliefs, which is probably the same reason why I have 10 people knocking on my door every week selling God, humanitarian speeches and collecting signatures for whatever.

It's always puzzled me why people on either side of the fence feel the need to fight back. Obviously I can only speak for the one side, and I can only speak for myself at that, but I think that when you care for someone, you'd like the best for'em. Ignorence is only bliss up until it becomes a stop-block on life, and that's the way I would see it for any friend of mine, deeply committed to any religion. I think Vijtch's shoe-gnome theory said all that needed saying here.

[DarkCrusade]

Really? Why try and "cure" something that is more of a healing force than a disease?

How does religion get power? People. People are part of a society. Society is corrupt. Hence religion is corrupt. This point has been proven over the centuries of (almost) every religion. Religions like Christianity have brought suffer and death to people, and the pope and other religious leaders always tried to secure their power and gain more power and money. Even today the catholic church is corrupt, if not more than ever before. The catholic church owns banks, and lets not forget about all the issues concerning child sexual abuse and how the church covers it. But Christianity is not the only religion I want to name. The Islam made people the way they are now. "Religious freaks" as you would probably call those people who are fanatics are a major problem in all religions, and in no way you can argue they are just a small percentage and don't follow the real religion behind their ideas. Their religion made them the way they are. Of course they are psychos, but religion gave them a purpose in life. How ironic.

[demoniac93]

All 3 major monotheism religions are corrupted.
And why cure? Because I did make it to cure a 'lost soul(How you call it in religions)', and not one..
I should start an Atheism movement btw D:

Well then your studies are wrong, mate. And you need to hear the teachings of those religions from a dedicated scholar or cleric, not some atheist's guide to "spirituality"/religion.

OK, so they want those people to believe that the universe came to be, because some s**t out of nowhere expanded and blew up, and that no matter what we do in life, we eventually die, and that's it?

You know, Vijtch made a pretty good point up there, and it worries me that after reading through his post(which is something I assume you've done), you ask the question he just spent who knows how long to write.

The lack of afterlife is only a discouraging prospect if you used to [or do] believe there is one. As for me, I've always been used to the idea of life being "it", and then you die. Still, it's not like I look at my upcoming death, and feel sad about it. If anything, it spices up and improves my experience of life, 'because I know it's not forever.

Wow, way to keep the morals up.

If that's your angle on believing in God, I believe you're as false as you claim our convictions. Science isn't about telling the truth the way people like to hear it, it's about telling it the way it is. People have gotten it wrong many times in the past, no doubt about it, but I'll say that's true for religion as well.

Sometimes, my friend, ignorance is bliss, and that's the greatest favor  an atheist could do to anyone, let them live in their ignorance, if they  truly believe God doesn't exist.

That is actually a fair point, I'd say. I guess basically people strive to expand on their beliefs, which is probably the same reason why I have 10 people knocking on my door every week selling God, humanitarian speeches and collecting signatures for whatever.

It's always puzzled me why people on either side of the fence feel the need to fight back. Obviously I can only speak for the one side, and I can only speak for myself at that, but I think that when you care for someone, you'd like the best for'em. Ignorence is only bliss up until it becomes a stop-block on life, and that's the way I would see it for any friend of mine, deeply committed to any religion. I think Vijtch's shoe-gnome theory said all that needed saying here.

...
If I wanted to be that blunt, I would've turned this into a conference call.
I wasn't speaking about being anyone being ignorant because they want to be, but because God is definitely a more "reasonable" explanation to "things" than 90% of any scientific theories I've ever heard. And apparently these days, having faith in something others don't believe in, is automatically ignorance. I believe God created the universe, that doesn't mean I don't understand the big bang, and the universe's expansion, and so forth, it simply means that I hold on to my beliefs, and have a strong opinion of my own, backed up by solid evidence that's hit me time and time again, right in the forehead.

Also, life is way too organized and balanced for it to be random, and without purpose. How do you explain that we humans have the ability to choose, and think, and how do you explain us knowing regret and remorse? Or and even more fundamental question: Explain life to me, how come a bunch of chemicals that miraculously formed an inanimate cell, suddenly picked up life from somewhere and began to thrive through the planet?

Really? Why try and "cure" something that is more of a healing force than a disease?

How does religion get power? People. People are part of a society. Society is corrupt. Hence religion is corrupt. This point has been proven over the centuries of (almost) every religion. Religions like Christianity have brought suffer and death to people, and the pope and other religious leaders always tried to secure their power and gain more power and money. Even today the catholic church is corrupt, if not more than ever before. The catholic church owns banks, and lets not forget about all the issues concerning child sexual abuse and how the church covers it. But Christianity is not the only religion I want to name. The Islam made people the way they are now. "Religious freaks" as you would probably call those people who are fanatics are a major problem in all religions, and in no way you can argue they are just a small percentage and don't follow the real religion behind their ideas. Their religion made them the way they are. Of course they are psychos, but religion gave them a purpose in life. How ironic.

Again you have blatantly ignored everything I've said, and just continue to bitch and whine about your personal experiences and media circuses related to the Catholic church, and religion in general.

People are fallible, and because they are fallible, they make mistakes. Now those mistakes can either be a mistranslation, a lack of belief, or simply hypocrisy.

What banks? The Vatican bank? Ever heard of something called philanthropy? The people who invest their do so because they know that the revenue goes to humanitarian aid and not the Pope's wallet.

Also, the church NEVER covers up for any crime against civil laws by anyone elated to it. Not even the Pope himself, should he ever do anything like that. The church are the first ones to investigate the claims and accusations, and when proven true, the church takes away the priest's authority as a religion man, and banishes him from the group, so to speak.

And is society really corrupt? The idea definitely isn't, neither is the purpose. You are again generalizing, which makes me wonder why I even bother...
It's the individual who is prone to corruption, and only if the righteous still and watch, does that corruption spread and take over.

[DarkCrusade]

People are fallible, and because they are fallible, they make mistakes. Now those mistakes can either be a mistranslation, a lack of belief, or simply hypocrisy.

Or they are corrupt and after money

What banks? The Vatican bank? Ever heard of something called philanthropy? The people who invest their do so because they know that the revenue goes to humanitarian aid and not the Pope's wallet.

There were news reports about the catholic church investing in Spanish banks.

Also, the church NEVER covers up for any crime against civil laws by anyone elated to it. Not even the Pope himself, should he ever do anything like that. The church are the first ones to investigate the claims and accusations, and when proven true, the church takes away the priest's authority as a religion man, and banishes him from the group, so to speak.

This is so wrong on so many levels.

And is society really corrupt? The idea definitely isn't, neither is the purpose. You are again generalizing, which makes me wonder why I even bother...
It's the individual who is prone to corruption, and only if the righteous still and watch, does that corruption spread and take over.

Ideas aren't corrupt, but people are. Best example: Communism.


You call me a whining bitch? If everyone who's taking part in a discussion and who is opposing you is a whining bitch, you can stop right here and go back to the kindergarten. Unlike you, I have not insulted anyone. Way to be childish.. but I think we had that discussion already \o

[smiluu]

Here's a question [I hope] is simple enough for this thread:
Why do atheists argue about God, even though they do not acknowledge his existence? Why waste so much time trying to prove [In vain] that something does NOT exist?

[pavliko]

Close this topic, all what there is going to be is arguing about religion..
It's demoniac93 versus other forumers...
Why do we need something like that?
Proof that religion affect people in a negative way and make them do stupid things like this topics....

I though this was a simple question. But I see only arguing..

Well then your studies are wrong, mate. And you need to hear the teachings of those religions from a dedicated scholar or cleric, not some atheist's guide to "spirituality"/religion.

You don't know anything about my studies and you laugh on my words...
Why should I even bother to explain anything to you.

[echo_trail]

...
If I wanted to be that blunt, I would've turned this into a conference call.
I wasn't speaking about being anyone being ignorant because they want to be, but because God is definitely a more "reasonable" explanation to "things" than 90%(1) of any scientific theories I've ever heard. And apparently these days, having faith in something others don't believe in, is automatically ignorance(2). I believe God created the universe, that doesn't mean I don't understand the big bang, and the universe's expansion, and so forth, it simply means that I hold on to my beliefs, and have a strong opinion of my own, backed up by solid evidence(3) that's hit me time and time again, right in the forehead.

Also, life is way too organized and balanced for it to be random(4), and without purpose. How do you explain(5) that we humans have the ability to choose, and think, and how do you explain us knowing regret and remorse? Or and even more fundamental question: Explain life to me(6), how come a bunch of chemicals that miraculously formed an inanimate cell, suddenly picked up life from somewhere and began to thrive through the planet?

Okay, fair enough.

1) I'd like an elaborate explanation on this one. Hit me with a few examples.

2) What a funny thing for an atheist-basher to say, especially considering what you just said above. No need for an explanation here.

3) You strike me as a bloke who's put some thought into things, even if you  seem to arrive at conclusions far beyond me. So please do explain to  me, what evidence is that? Just don't play the "because the Bible says  so" card.

4) We agree here. People prone to religious views seem to think we atheists believe a set of dice were thrown, and the result is how the world is today. That's not true. In fact, that theory is probably more suited for the religious' explanation. Anyway, the way I see it, the world as it exists today, is how it is, because it's the only logical outcome. Humans are the result of many years of evolution. In other words, we are what we are, 'because it's the most effective way for life to grow(in our particular strain, if you will). Similarly, bears, turtles and sharks are the most effective form due to 'their strain', and so forth.

This also explains why some species of animals, like sharks or some lizards, have more or less remained the same for millions of years. Events over the past millions of years have created an environment that's suited some animals for a limited time only, but for others it's been longer. Does that make sence? Anyway, I don't believe that's what you were asking in particular. But if you're willing, I'd like your view on this.

5) and 6) I think these were more or less answered in the above, at least to my point of view. Natural selection and extreme adaptation.

[croat1gamer]

Just a quick question to any believer:
Why do you believe exactly in the god of your religion?
Where is the problem with a god from an another religon?

Also:

Bruce Sheiman, because f**k you extremists.

[Bonecrusher]

*snip*

I don't mean to be fascist, but if we wanna have any kind of serious discussion going here, I gotta be.

@echotrail

oh u

[Mangled*]

Here's a question [I hope] is simple enough for this thread:
Why do atheists argue about God, even though they do not acknowledge his existence? Why waste so much time trying to prove [In vain] that something does NOT exist?

The problem is demoniac you are not looking for an answer to your question. You could be provided with any number of rational explanations, ones so in-depth and elegant as Vijcht's and you will take nothing on board because you are not willing to consider the possibility that you could be wrong. Atheism is only "in vain" in your head because you fundamentally have to believe you are right.

You are pre-disposed to a system of belief that you have known all your life and are unable to detach yourself from it in the slightest to consider any other possibility. This is the definition of closed-mindedness.

You're exactly the type of person that Atheists ultimately want to help. We do not try to prove that God doesn't exist because we simply don't need to.

For every far-gone fundamentalist like yourself there are 10 other religious people who are not so 'certain' about their 'faith' and have always had these little niggling thoughts throughout their life where reality has come into conflict with their beliefs and they just couldn't ignore reality and make it go away. They are people that atheists can get through to with reasoning and discussion and logical arguments. We care enough about other people to not want them to live a lie, we want people to live free and happy and not as slaves to some myth that was passed down through the generations.

Does that help?

[pavliko]

"Become free by turning yourself into gods slaves" written in the jewish bible D:
There was a demotivator poster made about this...

[demoniac93]

People are fallible, and because they are fallible, they make mistakes. Now those mistakes can either be a mistranslation, a lack of belief, or simply hypocrisy.

Or they are corrupt and after money

Hypocrisy* [Ever heard of a certain Mother Teressa?]

What banks? The Vatican bank? Ever heard of something called philanthropy? The people who invest their do so because they know that the revenue goes to humanitarian aid and not the Pope's wallet.

There were news reports about the catholic church investing in Spanish banks.

Really? Do they have proof? Do YOU have proof other than news reports?

Also, the church NEVER covers up for any crime against civil laws by anyone elated to it. Not even the Pope himself, should he ever do anything like that. The church are the first ones to investigate the claims and accusations, and when proven true, the church takes away the priest's authority as a religion man, and banishes him from the group, so to speak.

This is so wrong on so many levels.

Elaborate.

And is society really corrupt? The idea definitely isn't, neither is the purpose. You are again generalizing, which makes me wonder why I even bother...
It's the individual who is prone to corruption, and only if the righteous still and watch, does that corruption spread and take over.

Ideas aren't corrupt, but people are. Best example: Communism.

That's what I said, Sherlock.

You call me a whining b***h? If everyone who's taking part in a discussion and who is opposing you is a whining b***h, you can stop right here and go back to the kindergarten. Unlike you, I have not insulted anyone. Way to be childish.. but I think we had that discussion already \o

Yes, I do call you a whining bitch, because you are beyond prejudiced against anybody with a hint of spirituality or religion. Jealous, perhaps?

Close this topic, all what there is going to be is arguing about religion..
It's demoniac93 versus other forumers...
Why do we need something like that?
Proof that religion affect people in a negative way and make them do stupid things like this topics....

I though this was a simple question. But I see only arguing..

Well then your studies are wrong, mate. And you need to hear the teachings of those religions from a dedicated scholar or cleric, not some atheist's guide to "spirituality"/religion.

You don't know anything about my studies and you laugh on my words...
Why should I even bother to explain anything to you.

It's not arguing, sir, it's debating.
And I enjoy playing against the odds, I never was one to conform. Where I live there's this popular saying: "All against the hero".
Also, if you think religion makes people dumb, you should know that it was a Catholic priest who laid down the fundamentals of genetics, and you should also know that people the likes of Copernicus, Descartes, Newton, Boyle, and many more believed that there IS a God. And furthermore, Albert Einstein himself refused the idea of a non-created universe, even though he didn't acknowledge any one personal god.

P.S: Show me where I am laughing at your studies.

...
If I wanted to be that blunt, I would've turned this into a conference call.
I wasn't speaking about being anyone being ignorant because they want to be, but because God is definitely a more "reasonable" explanation to "things" than 90%(1) of any scientific theories I've ever heard. And apparently these days, having faith in something others don't believe in, is automatically ignorance(2). I believe God created the universe, that doesn't mean I don't understand the big bang, and the universe's expansion, and so forth, it simply means that I hold on to my beliefs, and have a strong opinion of my own, backed up by solid evidence(3) that's hit me time and time again, right in the forehead.

Also, life is way too organized and balanced for it to be random(4), and without purpose. How do you explain(5) that we humans have the ability to choose, and think, and how do you explain us knowing regret and remorse? Or and even more fundamental question: Explain life to me(6), how come a bunch of chemicals that miraculously formed an inanimate cell, suddenly picked up life from somewhere and began to thrive through the planet?

Okay, fair enough.

1) I'd like an elaborate explanation on this one. Hit me with a few examples.

Alright. How about the origin of the universe? Does any of the theories we have for the beginning of the universe these days, state the exact point of beginning, or the source of all matter than has come to be? No. But what if an entity/entities could exist outside of the limits of time and space? What if it contained time itself, and space itself? Don't you think it would be more than capable of generating [I won't say creating, because I'm assuming it's just a higher being, not the God I believe in] matter and energy?

2) What a funny thing for an atheist-basher to say, especially considering what you just said above. No need for an explanation here.

I don't bash, I criticize. Same as people around here criticize me. But I do want an explanation, after all, I am pretty tardy these days. Let's not forget that religious people are ignorant.

3) You strike me as a bloke who's put some thought into things, even if you  seem to arrive at conclusions far beyond me. So please do explain to  me, what evidence is that? Just don't play the "because the Bible says  so" card.

I don't believe in everything that is called supernatural, per se, but when I see and hear about people who "miraculously" beat cancer, permanent paralysis, and so forth, I do get the feeling that it's something more than luck, considering the numbers. One of the nuns in my parish has a sister who had a miscarriage the first time she wanted to have a child, or at least seemed to have a miscarriage. But after praying to saint Chernobyl and saint Rita, she was somehow treated by the min her dreams, and went to the bathroom as soon as she woke up, apparently she got rid of whatever it was that was affecting her pregnancy in the bathroom, and she gave birth to a perfectly fine and healthy child. And that's only one of the many "miracles" that I know of.

4) We agree here. People prone to religious views seem to think we atheists believe a set of dice were thrown, and the result is how the world is today. That's not true. In fact, that theory is probably more suited for the religious' explanation. Anyway, the way I see it, the world as it exists today, is how it is, because it's the only logical outcome. Humans are the result of many years of evolution. In other words, we are what we are, 'because it's the most effective way for life to grow(in our particular strain, if you will). Similarly, bears, turtles and sharks are the most effective form due to 'their strain', and so forth.

This also explains why some species of animals, like sharks or some lizards, have more or less remained the same for millions of years. Events over the past millions of years have created an environment that's suited some animals for a limited time only, but for others it's been longer. Does that make sence? Anyway, I don't believe that's what you were asking in particular. But if you're willing, I'd like your view on this.

I can't say you're wrong, because I don't follow the same logic, but the info you have is correctly interpreted, from what I remember taking in high school and later on reading about it on Wikipedia, however, I disagree. The theory of evolution never convinced me, even though it sounds very plausible, and yes, there is evidence to back it up, but, scientists still fail to create life, or let's call it the soul, which seems to have appeared out of nowhere again, somewhere along the line of evolution.

5) and 6) I think these were more or less answered in the above, at least to my point of view. Natural selection and extreme adaptation.

Well enough, that's cleared up, then.

Just a quick question to any believer:
Why do you believe exactly in the god of your religion?

I know that religion, in most cases, is passed on through the generations, or at least the rules and such. But if you're wondering, Christianity does not hold anyone responsible for being born in a Buddhist/Muslim/Jewish/Atheist/etc family, and if they never heard the teachings of Christianity from someone who actually believes in them [Call it preaching], and as long as they live their lives trying to be a good person, then they do gain eternal life, or paradise.

Where is the problem with a god from an another religon?

I honestly can't answer that without being vague or contradicting myself, I've just been taught to always prove why my religion is right, instead of disproving the others' religion. But it's not as sinister as it sounds, I respect all religions simply because they exist.

Here's a question [I hope] is simple enough for this thread:
Why do atheists argue about God, even though they do not acknowledge his existence? Why waste so much time trying to prove [In vain] that something does NOT exist?

The problem is demoniac you are not looking for an answer to your question. You could be provided with any number of rational explanations, ones so in-depth and elegant as Vijcht's and you will take nothing on board because you are not willing to consider the possibility that you could be wrong. Atheism is only "in vain" in your head because you fundamentally have to believe you are right.

I actually am, and I already answered to Vijcht's post. Just to make things clear: I WANT to be proven wrong, because, and I hate to burst your bubble, you assuming that I never doubted my faith is WRONG. I've had many conflicts with my faith and my scientific logic, and I've studied long and hard about how the universe actually functions, and how it could have become what it is now, and where it came from, and let me say that it's always a rough patch, and at times very hard to stick to my beliefs, but I do, because I've already found the evidence that I needed to.

You are pre-disposed to a system of belief that you have known all your life and are unable to detach yourself from it in the slightest to consider any other possibility. This is the definition of closed-mindedness.

No, as I said above, I've sought my own facts through both sides of this never-ending debate, and I found the answers I was looking for myself. I'm not ignorant, I'm simply persistent and headstrong.

You're exactly the type of person that Atheists ultimately want to help. We do not try to prove that God doesn't exist because we simply don't need to.

Thank you, but I don't need any help. Believe it or not, I'm one of those types that people come to for help, and they always know they can count on me. Know why? Because my religion taught that I can live life even better than any "free" atheist, simply by lending people a hand, and teaching them how to lend other people a hand when they need it. I don't do it to go to heaven, I do it because it makes me feel good about myself, and by showing people that happiness, I encourage them to do like me.

For every far-gone fundamentalist like yourself there are 10 other religious people who are not so 'certain' about their 'faith' and have always had these little niggling thoughts throughout their life where reality has come into conflict with their beliefs and they just couldn't ignore reality and make it go away. They are people that atheists can get through to with reasoning and discussion and logical arguments. We care enough about other people to not want them to live a lie, we want people to live free and happy and not as slaves to some myth that was passed down through the generations.

I'm not a slave, and Christianity sure as heck isn't a religion that enslaves people. Do you think God would've given us the ability to choose between good and evil if he wanted to enslave us? He doesn't even need our worship, what would he need it for anyways? He's God after all.

Does THAT help?

"Become free by turning yourself into gods slaves" written in the jewish bible D:
There was a demotivator poster made about this...

This is a serious discussion, if all you have to participate with in this conversation is lame jokes, then I'll respectfully ask you to get your jokes out of here, and go play a smart cookie somewhere else.

[Shard]

Not all Athiests argue about God. Thats pure ignorance to say that. As an Athiest I like to have, sometimes heated, discussions with people about God and religion in general but thats akk they are. Discussions. I would never try to force my beliefs upon people, that would be sinking down to the level the catholic church was at awhile ago.

One thing though. I don't believe this life is all there is. There is something after, I'm just not sure what yet.

[DarkCrusade]

One reason why it makes no sense to continue this "debate" is that Demoniac just claims every point against his opinion to be stupid, unserious and wrong.

[Mangled*]

I actually am, and I already answered to Vijcht's post. Just to make things clear: I WANT to be proven wrong, because, and I hate to burst your bubble, you assuming that I never doubted my faith is WRONG. I've had many conflicts with my faith and my scientific logic, and I've studied long and hard about how the universe actually functions, and how it could have become what it is now, and where it came from, and let me say that it's always a rough patch, and at times very hard to stick to my beliefs, but I do, because I've already found the evidence that I needed to.

No, as I said above, I've sought my own facts through both sides of this never-ending debate, and I found the answers I was looking for myself. I'm not ignorant, I'm simply persistent and headstrong.

Thank you, but I don't need any help. Believe it or not, I'm one of those types that people come to for help, and they always know they can count on me. Know why? Because my religion taught that I can live life even better than any "free" atheist, simply by lending people a hand, and teaching them how to lend other people a hand when they need it. I don't do it to go to heaven, I do it because it makes me feel good about myself, and by showing people that happiness, I encourage them to do like me.

I'm not a slave, and Christianity sure as heck isn't a religion that enslaves people. Do you think God would've given us the ability to choose between good and evil if he wanted to enslave us? He doesn't even need our worship, what would he need it for anyways? He's God after all.

This is your problem, you have sought 'your own facts' not THE facts. Instead of looking for truth you have looked only for whatever justification you could find for what you already believed.

Like I said before: You are pre-disposed to a system of belief that you have known all your life and are unable to detach yourself from it in the slightest to consider any other possibility. You are looking for your own 'truth', not a universal truth.

You are a slave and all religions enslave people. Enslavement of the mind. Believe this or you will be punished eternally. All those who do not cannot be trusted. Isn't that what your Bible says? Kill the unbelievers so that there is nobody left who does not believe. Isn't that what your Bible says? Knowledge is sinful. Isn't that what your Bible says?

Come on, eateth the fruit of the tree of knowledge.

[pavliko]

"Become free by turning yourself into gods slaves" written in the jewish bible D:
There was a demotivator poster made about this...

This is a serious discussion, if all you have to participate with in this conversation is lame jokes, then I'll respectfully ask you to get your jokes out of here, and go play a smart cookie somewhere else.

You mad? Did I said something that made you mad or something?
It's just that I don't see any lame jokes except facts in here, maybe thats why you got mad..

And go on batman, it's still you versus other forumers..
Did you ask a (simple)question or are you trying to prove something related to religions/god? especially over the internet?