Poll

How do you want the scoreboard to be sorted

Like 1.6RC
Like 1.5
Like 1.3.1 + cap counter
Whatever, just show me the results.

Author Topic: Scoreboard sorting  (Read 6050 times)

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Offline ginn

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Scoreboard sorting
« on: August 19, 2011, 10:33:25 am »
'Like 1.6RC' - Sort after caps instead of points.
'Like 1.5' - Sort after points, without gaining points for caps
'Like 1.3.1 + cap counter' - Sort after points, a cap gives you 20 points while also having a counter for caps. Really the amount of points gained from a cap could be anything.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2011, 10:38:03 am by ginn »

Offline Dusty

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2011, 10:58:09 am »
How it's done in 1.6.0 isn't going to change the way people play this game, it only makes the scoreboard messier. In 1.5.1 it was easier to compare teams by quickly checking the scoreboard. Also in 1.6.0 the kill counter in the corner is useless and a bit complicated aswell.

Offline Illuminatus

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2011, 02:56:55 pm »
Pls add "Own suggestion" to your poll.

I think the problem atm is that "Points" is the wrong word. You can call it points in HTF or Pointmatch but not in CTF.

Before 1.5: A cap gave you +20 to your killamount. So "Points" was the right name there.
After (and including) 1.5: "Points" only consist of your current amount of kills. There are no other ways to add some sort of bonus "points" to it. You only get one more point if you kill someone. So replacing "Points" with "Kills" would make much more sence.

According the sorting: Since CTF is all about the caps sorting after them only makes sense.

I've made a fast mockup how I would like to see the scoreboard (the default one on the right):


Notes:
- added total deaths
- added a bit more spacing
- added lines (they should be transparent and a bit darker so they don't distract but still help; maybe consider coloring the horizontal lines in red/blue again)
- removed the colons (unnecessary since it's a chart)
- renaming "Points" to something like "Captures" or "Score" would maybe fit better
- maybe remove the seconds from the real time; and maybe move it to the bottom right of the scoreboard (or actually out of it, somewhere at the edge of the screen...it doesn't have anything to do with the game)
- since there is still free space at the right move the points, kills, deaths and ping a bit to the right so there is more space for the playernames
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Offline ginn

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2011, 03:26:53 pm »
imo it's incredibly ugly to have somebody with a lower number above somebody else, somebody with 1 cap and 0 kills will be ranked above somebody with 50 kills and 0 caps.

CTF isn't all about caps in terms of game play, to cap you need somebody who defs. How it was back in 1.3.1 was perfect, except that there was no counter for caps.
Ideally you should gain points from various things, such as returning the flag/killing efc.

Pls add "Own suggestion" to your poll.
Your suggestion is pretty much how 1.6RC is.

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2011, 04:33:01 pm »
My vote goes to 1.5 scoring.
I really don't see the point in sorting by caps. You know how often someone goes through all the work of breaching the enemy defences, grabbing the flag, running back to base barely alive and then dying from a stray bullet and letting someone else score.
Point is: a few lucky kills won't boost a random noob to the top of the scoreboard, but a lucky cap will.

Plus, flag icons already stand out a lot and really grab attention on the scoreboard. IMHO this is enough of a reward for those who have less kills but a few cap points.


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Offline homerofgods

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2011, 04:42:21 pm »
ctf is about caps, so sorting by caps seams only natural.

Offline zakath

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2011, 04:43:11 pm »
My vote goes to 1.5 scoring.
I really don't see the point in sorting by caps. You know how often someone goes through all the work of breaching the enemy defences, grabbing the flag, running back to base barely alive and then dying from a stray bullet and letting someone else score.
Point is: a few lucky kills won't boost a random noob to the top of the scoreboard, but a lucky cap will.

Plus, flag icons already stand out a lot and really grab attention on the scoreboard. IMHO this is enough of a reward for those who have less kills but a few cap points.
The whole point why the rank is sorted by cap/kill/deaths is that we want to reward capping ie a more offensive playing style instead of a more defensive but haveing a high kill count.

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Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2011, 04:45:55 pm »
ctf is about caps, so sorting by caps seams only natural.
Not all gamemodes are about capping though.. Also you can't win without being able to defend your base and breach the enemy's base. So the better you are at killing - the more useful you are to the team.

My vote goes to 1.5 scoring.
I really don't see the point in sorting by caps. You know how often someone goes through all the work of breaching the enemy defences, grabbing the flag, running back to base barely alive and then dying from a stray bullet and letting someone else score.
Point is: a few lucky kills won't boost a random noob to the top of the scoreboard, but a lucky cap will.

Plus, flag icons already stand out a lot and really grab attention on the scoreboard. IMHO this is enough of a reward for those who have less kills but a few cap points.
The whole point why the rank is sorted by cap/kill/deaths is that we want to reward capping ie a more offensive playing style instead of a more defensive but haveing a high kill count.
Why would you reward just offensive players if defense is just as important? And why do you think that defensive players get more kills in the first place? To me it always seemed the other way around. :/ Plus it doesn't solve the issue when someone goes through all the effort of stealing the flag, dies near base, and then some base camper caps the flag.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2011, 04:49:42 pm by L[0ne]R »


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Offline ginn

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2011, 05:25:22 pm »
if you really look into what happens in a match, you'd need a really advanced system to determine points.
As for example, on Blade (Not gonna mention the low rout, as it's very fluent), there's one booster who just runs into the base and tries to boost the flag low/mid, one supporter who clears the way at mid and keeps an eye on low and also catches the flag.
The guy rushing in to boost the flag will probably have a pretty bad K/D and no caps, while the supporter will have a decent K/D and most of the caps

There's no real way to give a fair ranking. Though, the 1.5 system is better than the 1.6RC one, but I still like the 1.3.1 system better, just that it needed a cap counter.

Offline DorkeyDear

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2011, 05:57:51 pm »
In r/s, capturing the flag in ctf is usually not the main goal (in fact, games are often played without ever capturing the flag). Flag captures are almost meaningless for comparing player to player basis.

Majority of the time, I could care less about comparing players and their flag captures. I usually am interested in comparing kills (while still looking at deaths). (And while I'm on the subject: I also like to compare myself and my fellow teammates to the enemy just as often (if not more often) as my other teammates. Thanks for the 'OldScoreBoard' option).

In regards to the whole 'CTF is meant to capture flags':
Capture the flag gamemode is a nice fluent way to restrict the game to only two teams. It is still possible to restrict to two teams in TDM using scripting, but it is not nearly as fluent as using the CTF gamemode, and people, including myself, would much rather play in a game with only two team options in CTF than scripting automatically changing you out of a not-allowed team in TDM. This can be resolved by a new TDM gamemode that only allows for two teams.
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Offline ginn

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2011, 06:56:31 pm »
well... since it's somewhat clear that 1.3.1 scoring isn't coming back, I've changed my vote for 1.5 ;o....

Offline machina

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2011, 08:15:11 am »
1.6.0RC option is the best... People those stand alone and hold flag in base for fucking 5 minutes shall be honored like this... 1.3.0 option gives to much points and players from the same team fight between themselves for flag...

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2011, 04:33:18 pm »
1.6.0RC option is the best... People those stand alone and hold flag in base for f**king 5 minutes shall be honored like this... 1.3.0 option gives to much points and players from the same team fight between themselves for flag...
In 1.3.0 you would cap, get 20 kill points and be at the top of the scoreboard.
In 1.6.0 you would cap, get 1 cap point and be at the top if the scoreboard.
I really see no difference there. A single cap still moves you far ahead of everyone else, so I'm not sure what your point is. :S

And I never saw friendly players fighting over a flag..
« Last Edit: August 30, 2011, 12:02:05 pm by L[0ne]R »


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Offline machina

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2011, 03:42:35 am »
And I never saw friendly players fighting over a flag..
I mean that players from my team (on some public server) didn't care about protecting EFC... Everybody was trying to take flag as the first one and cap then...
Also, +20 points for capturing is too much... Maybe 5 or max. 10...?

Offline ginn

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2011, 01:28:36 pm »
And I never saw friendly players fighting over a flag..
I mean that players from my team (on some public server) didn't care about protecting EFC... Everybody was trying to take flag as the first one and cap then...
Also, +20 points for capturing is too much... Maybe 5 or max. 10...?
ehm... that kind of attitude will only get worse in 1.6... because now flags are everything...

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2011, 01:36:05 pm »
And I never saw friendly players fighting over a flag..
I mean that players from my team (on some public server) didn't care about protecting EFC... Everybody was trying to take flag as the first one and cap then...
Also, +20 points for capturing is too much... Maybe 5 or max. 10...?
ehm... that kind of attitude will only get worse in 1.6... because now flags are everything...
Indeed. In 1.3 you could at least get enough kills and still be first in the scoreboard even if someone caps (it's hard but possible). In 1.6 even if you have 99999999 kills - you'll still be "worse" than a person with 1 cap point.


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Offline filip2322

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2011, 02:08:38 pm »
Maybe the best solution would be to simlpy remove the F1 stats and/or make them visible only on citro-stats or somewhere else

You would only see the current score in caps
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Offline machina

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2011, 02:22:12 pm »
Maybe the best solution would be to simlpy remove the F1 stats and/or make them visible only on citro-stats or somewhere else

You would only see the current score in caps
Players have to see statistics... It cannot be removed!

ehm... that kind of attitude will only get worse in 1.6... because now flags are everything...
That's why i voted for 1.6.0RC option what doesn't give any kills...

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2011, 04:26:17 pm »
ehm... that kind of attitude will only get worse in 1.6... because now flags are everything...
That's why i voted for 1.6.0RC option what doesn't give any kills...
So you're saying that because players won't get kills for caps - they'll care less about flags?


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Offline machina

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2011, 05:04:41 pm »
ehm... that kind of attitude will only get worse in 1.6... because now flags are everything...
That's why i voted for 1.6.0RC option what doesn't give any kills...
So you're saying that because players won't get kills for caps - they'll care less about flags?
Aaah... No kills for caps wasn't a trouble in 1.5.0... 1.6.0 option is right, and we shouldn't all talk about too much... That's all!

Offline Bonecrusher

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2011, 05:59:28 am »
OldScoreBoard enabled in soldat.ini should bring back old sorting method too... And check the poll devs
« Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 08:02:00 am by Bonecrusher »

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Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2011, 01:39:10 pm »
OldScoreBoard enabled in soldat.ini should bring back old sorting method too... And check the poll devs
Sorting and visual appearance are entirely different things, so that won't fix the problem. :/


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Offline Mittsu

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2011, 03:41:58 pm »
after playing 1.6 for some time already i have to say the old sorting was better, just made more sense to me. Even though it's sorted by caps i still sort it by kills in my mind.
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Offline machina

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2011, 05:23:37 am »
after playing 1.6 for some time already i have to say the old sorting was better, just made more sense to me. Even though it's sorted by caps i still sort it by kills in my mind.
Now when i think about it, i have to agree with you... Kills show the best players - not caps... Someone had to protect EFC...

Offline Bonecrusher

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2011, 05:45:31 am »
Bring the old scoreboard and scoreboard sorting back asap !

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Offline Mexer

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2011, 04:38:35 pm »
my opinion:

what the f**k people?

The scoreboard should remain like this forever because, the ctf gamemode's target is to make a team capture a flag and score it by bringing it back. That's the main point in CTF. The players who do achieve that deserve to get above the others who didn't do it. The 1.5.0 scoreboard is only good for a deathmatch - type of gamemode, not this.

don't be such statwhores with the kills and bring some contribution to the gamemode.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2011, 04:40:10 pm by Mexer »
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Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2011, 04:59:59 pm »
my opinion:

what the f**k people?

The scoreboard should remain like this forever because, the ctf gamemode's target is to make a team capture a flag and score it by bringing it back. That's the main point in CTF. The players who do achieve that deserve to get above the others who didn't do it. The 1.5.0 scoreboard is only good for a deathmatch - type of gamemode, not this.

don't be such statwhores with the kills and bring some contribution to the gamemode.
Have you even read any of the previous comments?


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Offline Mexer

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #27 on: October 20, 2011, 07:17:45 am »
Have you even read any of the previous comments?

no.
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Offline machina

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #28 on: October 20, 2011, 08:06:15 am »
Have you even read any of the previous comments?
no.
So you really should not talk about it...

Offline Mexer

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #29 on: October 20, 2011, 08:59:44 am »
Soldat devs and community: We want this game to be successful and have new players and make it popular!

Soldat devs and community: But we want the oldskool graphics and bugs and errors to be left alone! Soldat shall never change!!!

Offline Bonecrusher

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2011, 09:10:06 am »
Yes you should've read the previous comments 1st mexer, and if u didint please check the poll so u might catch up what people said

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Offline machina

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #31 on: October 20, 2011, 09:30:40 am »
According to topic... That new scoreboard makes a lot of misunderstandings... I wish to see 1.5.0 sorting but of course F1 table shouldn't change...

Offline homerofgods

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #32 on: October 20, 2011, 02:53:24 pm »
There is allways a big difference between public games and competative games, and I think we should allways make changes based on the competative gameplay.
People who doesn't help their team, just to get the cap themselves, do happen, but not in the competative scene.

I think the new sorting is partly here because statswhores became too cocky when they were on top of the list, and it all felt like a DM in a ctf mode.

I agree that caps should count first, as in 1.6, but:
In the 1.6 versions, Alpha is allways on top of the list and Bravo allways on bottom due to the separation of the teams, I think this only makes it harder to understand.
I would suggest removing Alpha, Bravo, total kills/deaths and those ugly ass lines alltogether, and let all players be ranked in the same list.


I did it in xl just to show you:
« Last Edit: October 31, 2011, 02:23:44 pm by homerofgods »

Offline ginn

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #33 on: October 20, 2011, 04:08:42 pm »
oldscoreboard=1....

and @mexer, try to play the game longer than an hour.

do you seriously think you can cap without a team supporting you? you're dependent on kills to be able to cap.
Sometimes the guy with the worst score can be the most deciding player of the match.
For example, if you just rush in, to tank damage and survive for as long as possible and draw their attention, while your teammates are killing, then you just barely get out to die, having your teammate score the flag.
That cap you got 0 kills and 0 caps, even though you might've been doing extremely well. Of course the other guys did their part of the job too, but they got credits for it.

My point still remains though... 1.3.1 sorting with flag counter~

Offline McWise

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #34 on: October 20, 2011, 06:27:10 pm »
Wtf - who cares?

I'd say, first make the game a finished game, then think about minor problems like this.

Best possibility would be, to give the player or the server, I don't know, the ability to decide himself how to sort the scoreboard, maybe even with more detailed options like, sort by teams yes/no, show time yes/no, etc.

But as I said, first concentrate on more important issues.

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #35 on: October 20, 2011, 06:51:54 pm »
There is allways a big difference between public games and competative games, and I think we should allways make changes based on the competative gameplay.
People who doesn't help their team, just to get the cap themselves, do happen, but not in the competative scene.

In competitive scene sorting by caps may be more important, but for one - most competitive CTF matches are only 3vs3 (correct me if I'm wrong), so it's extremely easy to see who has the most kills and caps. Secondly - competitive players aren't noobs, they better understand the importance of caps and kills, so they have a much better judgement of who deserves the most credit. Competitive players are often on a similar skill level, so even though some of them have more cap points than others - they all equally contribute to the final score.

In public servers you often have over 10 players on the server ranging from complete noobs and trolls to skilled veterans. Because of that there is much less teamwork, and therefore kills play a much more important role since whoever kills the most - defends the best, attacks the best and supports his team the best. Thats why that player should be the best on the scoreboard too. So in case of pubs sorting by kills would be more accurate.

To sum it up: I doubt it'll be a big difference for competitive players if scoreboard is sorted by caps or by kills, but in public games it makes a bigger difference.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2011, 07:02:21 pm by L[0ne]R »


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Offline Bistoufly

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #36 on: October 20, 2011, 07:19:14 pm »
I prefer sorted by caps.

That way it doesn't turn into deathmatch.
And it doesn't encourage people to use tactics like camping, blocking, spawkilling.

These tactics slow the gameplay.
And I like fast paced action, with lots of running and rushing.  :)







Good concept. Simple and straight to the point.



Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #37 on: October 20, 2011, 08:05:34 pm »
I prefer sorted by caps.

That way it doesn't turn into deathmatch.
And it doesn't encourage people to use tactics like camping, blocking, spawkilling.
Demos please, I've never seen a CTF game turn into a TDM (except in R/S). :/ People who want deathmatch usually play deathmatch, not capture the flag. But even those in CTF still contribute to the team's success whether they want it or not.

Camping - a legitimate strategy. A bad camper won't get neither kills nor caps, and a good camper will still contribute to the team, so his score would be well-deserved. Don't worry about the pace - it's rare to have even one such hardcore camper on a team.

Blocking - is more of a coincidence rather than intended "tactic", since it's very hard to be in the right place at the right time.

Spawnkilling - now that could be a problem, but a well-designed and balanced map somewhat solves this. Plus if anything - there's also votekick. I don't find spawnkilling alone to be good enough of a reason to not sort by kills.


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Offline Bonecrusher

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2011, 04:12:18 am »
In the 1.6 versions, Alpha is allways on top of the list and Bravo allways on bottom due to the separation of the teams, I think this only make it harder to understand.
I would suggest removing Alpha, Bravo, total kills/deaths and those ugly ass lines alltogether, and let all players be ranked in the same list.


this is what i want, also what poll says

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #39 on: October 21, 2011, 04:40:03 am »
In the 1.6 versions, Alpha is allways on top of the list and Bravo allways on bottom due to the separation of the teams, I think this only make it harder to understand.
I would suggest removing Alpha, Bravo, total kills/deaths and those ugly ass lines alltogether, and let all players be ranked in the same list.


this is what i want, also what poll says

Open Soldat.ini, change "OldScoreBoard=0" into "OldScoreBoard=1" and stop whining ffs...
« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 04:43:56 am by SyavX »

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #40 on: October 21, 2011, 05:29:27 am »
dude please, i have that enabled since new version came out and its still sorted by caps so you arent much of a help though

Whats good is server name and info displayed in f1 menu, also fixed clock but team separation wasnt the best idea. Hopefully Shoozza checks this thread and sees the poll results so we can have old scoreboard sorting back ;
« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 05:36:20 am by Bonecrusher »

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Offline SyavX

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #41 on: October 21, 2011, 05:36:40 am »
Yeah, sorry, didn't see you've mentioned it above.
Then you should ask devs to fix sorting with OldScoreBoard option enabled and don't complain about new one.

Offline machina

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #42 on: October 21, 2011, 12:32:53 pm »
In the 1.6 versions, Alpha is allways on top of the list and Bravo allways on bottom due to the separation of the teams, I think this only make it harder to understand.
I would suggest removing Alpha, Bravo, total kills/deaths and those ugly ass lines alltogether, and let all players be ranked in the same list.


this is what i want, also what poll says
No! That new F1 looked so beautiful... Don't change it :(

Offline Mexer

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #43 on: October 23, 2011, 03:39:09 pm »
I prefer sorted by caps.

That way it doesn't turn into deathmatch.
And it doesn't encourage people to use tactics like camping, blocking, spawkilling.
Demos please, I've never seen a CTF game turn into a TDM (except in R/S). :/ People who want deathmatch usually play deathmatch, not capture the flag.

What about the statwh**es , the large number of players that only play for kills. I know lots of players like this that wouldn't cap anything, only kill like in team deathmatch and spawnkill like hell.

And talking about that, tbh the new scoreboard really encouraged me to be more of a team player and contribute as much as I can so we/I can score. When the 1.5 scorboard was on, everyone I knew was fighting and bragging about kills, not caps.
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Offline Jerkington XIII

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #44 on: October 23, 2011, 04:40:59 pm »
What about the statwhores , the large number of players that only play for kills. I know lots of players like this that wouldn't cap anything, only kill like in team deathmatch and spawnkill like hell.
how's the sorting gonna change that? kills are kills even when they aren't pushing ya to the top of scoreboard.
Quote
When the 1.5 scorboard was on, everyone I knew was fighting and bragging about kills, not caps.
And they still do. At least, if "everyone you knew" didn't consist of you and your sister:
So far i haven't met a cunt (yes, cunt) who'd brag about f.e. 7 caps, 2 kills, and 41 deaths, when there's a guy with f.e. 68 kills, 5 deaths, and 0 caps. Yes, that was extreme, but wasn't that what you meant from the other wiew?

I think my opinion was clear. Wow, there's hate already, time to go for a nap. =O
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Offline Bistoufly

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #45 on: October 23, 2011, 10:28:28 pm »
What about the statwh**es , the large number of players that only play for kills. I know lots of players like this that wouldn't cap anything, only kill like in team deathmatch and spawnkill like hell.

And talking about that, tbh the new scoreboard really encouraged me to be more of a team player and contribute as much as I can so we/I can score. When the 1.5 scorboard was on, everyone I knew was fighting and bragging about kills, not caps.

A big +1


Offline Mexer

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #46 on: October 24, 2011, 05:26:11 am »
If I ever made a game with a gamemode named capture the cat, I would obviously make a scoreboard that puts the players that scored the cat as much on the top , because that's the f***ng purpose of the gamemode, and the 2nd criteria will be the number of kills . Someone who will want to be on top gonna be that someone who does what he should do in this gamemode, and that's capture the cat. Even if you kill you scoring, killing still isn't the point of the capture the cat mode.

Also the scoreboard should be devided in two teams cause for the love of god, it's Capture the cat between two teams each having its own scorepoints. I just find it logic to divide the scoreboard into two teams; most multiplayer games have it like this and it's not that hard to see why..

...at least if you change the scoreboard to the old one please leave the name of the server n stuff visible on the top, like in the new version..
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Offline homerofgods

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #47 on: October 24, 2011, 06:15:56 am »
Isn't it better to have a non-teambased scoreboard?

To find the 'best' player in a in a clanwar you'd have to first look at the top red player, then the top blue player, then compare them to eachother before the endscreen dissapears.
I would rather just look at the top player on the list!

Offline Mexer

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #48 on: October 24, 2011, 08:12:11 am »
Isn't it better to have a non-teambased scoreboard?

To find the 'best' player in a in a clanwar you'd have to first look at the top red player, then the top blue player, then compare them to eachother before the endscreen dissapears.
I would rather just look at the top player on the list!

Then just make a server-side option to choose from the two types of scoreboards.

And dee-du-dee-d-dee-d that's all folks!

*dururum dum du du ruu rum!*
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Offline Fujifabric

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #49 on: October 24, 2011, 09:25:10 am »
I like the style of the new scoreboard but I do prefer it being sorted by kills... Since i'm used to see the kill gap at the bottom right on the screen and with the cap sorting method it gets a bit complicated to understand what's going on.

Isn't it better to have a non-teambased scoreboard?

To find the 'best' player in a in a clanwar you'd have to first look at the top red player, then the top blue player, then compare them to eachother before the endscreen dissapears.
I would rather just look at the top player on the list!

It could be team based and also easy to spot the best player if you had the scoreboard side by side
Code: [Select]
 
   .------------------------------.
  |              Scoreboard              |
  +----+-----------------+-------+
  |  Alpha          |  Bravo             |
  +----+-----------------+-------+
  |  Player1       |   Player1           |
  |  Player2       |   Player2           |
  |  Player3       |   Player3           |
  +----+-----------------+-------+
  '-----+-----------------+-------'

But that would be yet another scoreboard modification.

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #50 on: October 24, 2011, 05:13:48 pm »
If I ever made a game with a gamemode named capture the cat, I would obviously make a scoreboard that puts the players that scored the cat as much on the top , because that's the f***ng purpose of the gamemode, and the 2nd criteria will be the number of kills . Someone who will want to be on top gonna be that someone who does what he should do in this gamemode, and that's capture the cat. Even if you kill you scoring, killing still isn't the point of the capture the cat mode.
Again, like many others here, you refuse to see the idea of CTF through to its finer details..
It's true that CTF = Flags, but the equation doesn't end there.

CTF = Flags = Scoring = Teamwork

Scoring = (getting to enemy base + grabbing flag + bringing flag to base + defending your flag)
Getting to enemy base = attack
Grabbing enemy flag = attack + support
Bringing flag to base = defense + support
Defending your own flag = defense

Attack = kills
Defense = kills + camping
Support = kills + suppressive fire


What most modern games do now is they take into account ALL of those things and award you points for all of these: kills, assists, captures, defense, attack, healing/resupplying your teammates, etc. Since Soldat doesn't have that - players should be sorted by the one thing that the game itself (NOT gamemode) revolves around - and that is kills.
Flag captures in CTF - just like defense points in INF and HTF and team's kills in TDM - are team effort, and therefore it's not something an individual player should take credit for.


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Offline Mexer

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #51 on: October 25, 2011, 07:15:42 am »
Then tell me, what's the purpose of all the killing you summed up in your equation ?
Yes, they all help you score the flag and protect your own...

It's like when you go in a mission to kill Bin Laden, they will never count the number of talibans you killed, they will only want you to eliminate the target regardless of the offensive/defensive tactics you use to kill the enemy or Laden himself.
If you die after that , your gravestone won't have the number of talibans you killed, but what you achieved; because that's the main purpose of your deployment.

Also, regarding modern games, they all have the scoreboard split into teams. I think they shouldn't change that.
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Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #52 on: October 27, 2011, 12:10:26 am »
But have you ever heard anything like "John Johnson killed Bin Laden"? No, it's the "US forces killed Bin Laden", it's a team achievement. And I doubt any of them would brag about killing just one single person even if he was important. It wasn't the goal itself - it was the path to that goal that was the most challenging.

As for splitting scoreboard into teams - it's purely a matter of preference, so there's not really a good or a bad way of how to do it in other games.


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Offline Mexer

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #53 on: October 27, 2011, 05:56:46 am »
And I doubt any of them would brag about killing just one single person even if he was important. It wasn't the goal itself - it was the path to that goal that was the most challenging.

Can't you imagine how big of a hero he is in their team now? It's like the goalie in football that makes his team win. Operation Neptune Spear led by Obama was about killing Bin Laden as the main target. Sure there are different paths you can follow each more or less difficult. But the paths all lead to a main purpose: killing Bin Laden.
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Offline freestyler

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #54 on: October 27, 2011, 06:28:14 am »
While I understand both sides' arguments, I'm with Mexer. Capture The Flag is called Capture The Flag for a reason. Every gamemode involves killing; CTF should stand out because its objective is capping.

I guess that I think like that because I usually just rush for the flag and my K/D ratio oscillates around 0.2.

Offline NamelessWolf

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #55 on: October 29, 2011, 11:46:52 am »
Kills aren't the main objective in CTF or TW and I think the list should be based, as much as possible, on which player does the best for his team. Not who's the best camper. I can't imagine how anyone could want the scoreboard changed back to how it was, other than a camper wanting top place without really contributing as much to his team as his rushing teammates.

Offline ginn

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #56 on: October 29, 2011, 02:01:43 pm »
I'm getting pretty annoyed at you guys going "but we want the old score board sorting, where the teams were mixed". It's been said atleast 2 times already that you can change oldscoreboard=1.... and yet you keep going at it.... read the thread or don't post, scum bags.

Offline Bonecrusher

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #57 on: October 29, 2011, 02:07:28 pm »
its been said few times already that enabling this wont bring back old scoreboard sorting.

Im chill like that

Offline ginn

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #58 on: October 31, 2011, 10:44:51 am »
its been said few times already that enabling this wont bring back old scoreboard sorting.
that's not what they're whining about.

Offline Mittsu

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #59 on: October 31, 2011, 10:53:17 am »
yes it is
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Offline Bonecrusher

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #60 on: October 31, 2011, 12:29:42 pm »
its been said few times already that enabling this wont bring back old scoreboard sorting.
that's not what they're whining about.

check the topic name and first post before actually replying to a thread

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Offline ginn

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #61 on: October 31, 2011, 02:28:07 pm »
its been said few times already that enabling this wont bring back old scoreboard sorting.
that's not what they're whining about.

check the topic name and first post before actually replying to a thread
I started the fucking topic.

Offline Bonecrusher

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #62 on: November 01, 2011, 05:18:53 am »
hah and it looks like you dont know what we've been talking about in this thread


edit: ok someone from dev team please check this topic so we can get an answer if the scoreboard sorting will be brought back like it was in 1.5 or what


edit2:@down oh u ;]
« Last Edit: November 01, 2011, 10:28:02 am by Bonecrusher »

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Offline Mexer

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #63 on: November 01, 2011, 07:48:30 am »
hah and it looks like you dont know what we've been talking about in this thread


edit: ok someone from dev team please check this topic so we can get an answer if the scoreboard sorting will be brought back like it was in 1.5 or what

I hope they don't check this forum so they leave the scoreboard as it is  [retard]
/trollmode off
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Offline ginn

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #64 on: November 01, 2011, 01:29:17 pm »
hah and it looks like you dont know what we've been talking about in this thread


edit: ok someone from dev team please check this topic so we can get an answer if the scoreboard sorting will be brought back like it was in 1.5 or what


edit2:@down oh u ;]
You seem to be pretty clueless. They're talking about seperating teams as being a huge issue, while it isn't. Anything that is irrelevant should stay out of the thread.

Offline machina

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #65 on: November 01, 2011, 02:22:00 pm »
I hope they don't check this forum so they leave the scoreboard as it is  [retard]
/trollmode off
If they don't, Bone will talk them about it... I'm sure about it ;)

Offline Dusty

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #66 on: May 11, 2012, 08:22:21 am »
bump

hoping you could choose the sorting style you like the best or at least make the old scoreboard sort players by kills. the messiness has been bothering me since 1.6 came out.

Offline machina

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #67 on: May 11, 2012, 12:51:05 pm »
Oh, the topic has been revealed again.

So, I still vote for old sorting by kills from 1.5 - less messy...

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #68 on: May 11, 2012, 05:54:46 pm »
Once again, I think sorting by kills makes more sense even in CTF, because there already is a cap counter at the bottom right and shows the entire team's effort, while individual players should be sorted by kills in the player scoreboard.

But seeing how some people still disagree with that, both kinds of sorting should be included as a customizable option (regardless if the scoreboard STYLE is set to "old" or "new"). But then the question is, which sorting option should be default? I vote for kills of course.


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Offline Mexer

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #69 on: May 12, 2012, 03:02:23 am »
How about sorting by kills but divided by teams?
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Offline Bonecrusher

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #70 on: May 12, 2012, 05:34:39 am »
isnt there OldScoreboard option in soldat.ini, I think ive been using it this whole time cause my f1 menu is not separated by teams

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Offline homerofgods

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #71 on: May 12, 2012, 05:49:21 am »
Some of us, including me, think that K:D is somewhat irrelevant in ctf because it's about caps. And we think that getting a good K:D doesn't necessarely help your team.
Example: 2 guys stay in base and defend while 1 is constantly rushing to get flag. The 2 guys will pick up a good K:D while the one rushing will die all the time, but will get the team some important caps.

Then again.. you can't win the match if you don't kill enemies, and it's not allways the guy who got the flag who does the cap. So I understand both viewpoints.

Ultimatly, it's more when and where you kill enemies that counts, and you shouldn't look so much at scoreboard at all.
Even though, low K:D and no caps can be an indication of someone not playing very well.

- I think the most imortant reason why it was changed to sort by caps was that there was too many statswhores in ctf that verbally made fun of anyone with a low K:D

Offline Dusty

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #72 on: May 12, 2012, 07:19:52 am »
- I think the most imortant reason why it was changed to sort by caps was that there was too many statswhores

Having spent countless of hours on public CTF servers playing 1.6.2, I can say this hasn't changed at all.

Offline machina

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #73 on: May 12, 2012, 11:17:05 am »
Sorting by ratio! :D Then everybody has same chances... Even if someone joined when match was already finishing...

Anyway, I think those tables aren't making to me so big harm. But newbies may feel confused.

Offline Bistoufly

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Re: Scoreboard sorting
« Reply #74 on: May 12, 2012, 11:45:02 am »
- I think the most imortant reason why it was changed to sort by caps was that there was too many statswhores

Having spent countless of hours on public CTF servers playing 1.6.2, I can say this hasn't changed at all.

The point is that it would be even worse with the 1.5 scoreboard.


Now for my opinion on this matter:
1) Anything that can help diminish the amount of stats-whoring in CTF is good to take.
2) In CTF, the team with the most caps will win, not the one with the most kills or the best k/d.
Therefore it's nothing but logical that the scoreboard is sorted by caps.

=> I vote for the 1.6 scoreboard.