Author Topic: Tw_Borderwars  (Read 2270 times)

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Offline Monsteri

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Tw_Borderwars
« on: December 20, 2011, 02:08:02 am »
Tw_Borderwars
-By Monsteri-
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I am back..kinda. I didn't want to try anything too hard, so I made a basic TW mudmap with a basic TW layout.
In 10 hours :P
Waypoints are poor, but they exist.
So yea, enjoy the map!

Feedback will be very much appreciated


(^Click To Enlarge The Boner^)

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Hosted by jrgp's Soldat Mapping Showcase.
Sorry if I'm insolent.

Offline machina

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Re: Tw_Borderwars
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2011, 08:11:04 am »
Looks simple - looks very playable... Troll Leo's ass a little and maybe he will upload it on TW...

Offline Leo

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Re: Tw_Borderwars
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2011, 02:18:21 pm »
It's on TW server already ;)

Offline NamelessWolf

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Re: Tw_Borderwars
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2011, 03:51:23 pm »
I know that you're much more experienced as a map maker than me and it should make you quicker, but I still think 10 hours is very little time to put into a map before public release. You just can't think of enough stuff to fill a map in that time (well, unless you're very imaginative) and I think it shows.

Map structure is very simple. First a side bunker, then flat ground and a bunker in the middle. I'm not so keen on the flat ground, with so few obstacles, but in contrast to tw_desertlake at least this map have bunkers. That's something.

I'm not sure how much you tested the windows of the bunkers. They're very tight and the wall is fairly thick. At the sidebunkers it might work -  as long as you pick Ruger or another straight shooting weapon - because the window is located at ground level and you don't have to shoot anywhere else than just straight across the ground (which says a lot about how flat and plain the terrain is).
At the middle bunker it's a real problem though. I like the idea about some good windows for sniping at the top floor, but the windows must either be rotated to point slightly downwards or simply be enlarged (maybe both) to make them useful from the inside of the bunker. The map is very small and the bullets doesnt drop quick enough if you use something like Barret or Ruger.
I tried MP5 but it only kills the enemies who are stupid enough to stay in the trenches, in belief that those will provide shelter from shots dropping in from above.

Further on, you might want to make the doors bullet colliding. There is a small balcony on the first floor, so it would still be useful as a place to stay and shoot from.
Also I personally would have made the 1st floor easier to access from the outside. As it is now you have to use that small hill as a ramp and the jump is still so hard that more than 90% of players will take the lowest door. That will make the gameplay very simple and repeative.

As far as I could see there was no healing polygon in the middle base and there was only ever a medikit. Is that intended, I wonder..?

Then to the visuals. I like the environment you created in the background. I'm not good at backgrounds myself so I'm a bit impressed by this. You're also good at shading the polygons with different colors.

Some details are strange though. I don't see how there can be so much light shining into the bunkers from the windows when theres no light outside. No daylight but still there's daylight pouring in through the windows ???
Unless you put some lamps in there you should probably make the background inside bunkers really dark. Also you should add some lighting to the siren thing that you actually did put into the middle bunker.

One more thing:
I think you should add some wooden planks to the trenches. It's pretty much standard for TW and it does make the trenches look better.

Edit:
One small thing I really liked is that the attacking team can't enter the other team's spawnbunker. In this map it wouldn't serve any other purpose than spawnkill.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 05:18:08 pm by NamelessWolf »

Offline Monsteri

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Re: Tw_Borderwars
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2011, 06:04:31 am »
Quote
I know that you're much more experienced as a map maker than me and it should make you quicker, but I still think 10 hours is very little time to put into a map before public release. You just can't think of enough stuff to fill a map in that time (well, unless you're very imaginative) and I think it shows.
Yes, my first map actually took like 3 days to make (After them I wondered for two days how to insert images), experience has its role in that. But I like to work straight, as long as I can, as it is very hard to get in the mood afterwards. I plan them before beginning to draw the polygons though. Also I kind of got bored to mapping last time, because I tried too hard, so I decided to make a basic, mainstream map :)
Quote
I'm not sure how much you tested the windows of the bunkers. They're very tight and the wall is fairly thick. At the sidebunkers it might work -  as long as you pick Ruger or another straight shooting weapon - because the window is located at ground level and you don't have to shoot anywhere else than just straight across the ground (which says a lot about how flat and plain the terrain is).
At the middle bunker it's a real problem though. I like the idea about some good windows for sniping at the top floor, but the windows must either be rotated to point slightly downwards or simply be enlarged (maybe both) to make them useful from the inside of the bunker.
How so? I think they are fine, in the middle bunker top you can shoot to trenches, and to the side bunker. With barret and ruger too, you just gotta prone. I may still enlarge them a bit, future will show if there is any need.
The underground side bunker has a good line of shooting also, even with auto weapons. It is planned that it's easy to massacre enemies from there, that's why the terrain is relatively flat. But you can't spray straight into the door, the hill stops that.
Quote
I tried MP5 but it only kills the enemies who are stupid enough to stay in the trenches, in belief that those will provide shelter from shots dropping in from above.
What's wrong with it then? You can't shoot there with stronger autos if the target's laying down, but with MP5 you can. And yeah, with explosives too.
Quote
Further on, you might want to make the doors bullet colliding. There is a small balcony on the first floor, so it would still be useful as a place to stay and shoot from.
The middle bunker is very strong already, open middle is a good nerf to it, which I like a lot. There is so little distance between the big and strong middle bunker, and small side bunkers that they have to be open. Also it is just delicious to throw a nade in there before rushing in.
Quote
Also I personally would have made the 1st floor easier to access from the outside. As it is now you have to use that small hill as a ramp and the jump is still so hard that more than 90% of players will take the lowest door. That will make the gameplay very simple and repeative.
I don't see how it will make the gameplay simple and repetive any more than it would be if everyone was able to access the balcony :) Even though I agree, it is very hard to get in there. Maybe I will enlarge the balconies a bit.
Quote
As far as I could see there was no healing polygon in the middle base and there was only ever a medikit. Is that intended, I wonder..?
It is intended, but TW has medics, and healing there would be only harmful to you, as the distances are so short.
Quote
Some details are strange though. I don't see how there can be so much light shining into the bunkers from the windows when theres no light outside. No daylight but still there's daylight pouring in through the windows ???
Heh, there is a bright, shiny and gloomy full moon out there, don't you see? :D
The lighting in the ground bunkers is quite hard though, since I made those before I decided I'd make it nighttime instead of daytime. Not a big concern.
Quote
One more thing:
I think you should add some wooden planks to the trenches. It's pretty much standard for TW and it does make the trenches look better.
Yyeah I was originally going to place them into the field trenches too, I don't know why I didn't.

Thanks for the feedback, it's been long since I was last time rewarded with a wall of text :)

It's on TW server already ;)
Thanks to you, too.
Sorry if I'm insolent.

Offline smiluu

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Re: Tw_Borderwars
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2011, 09:13:54 am »
You two seem to be into creation of TW much recently so I suggest this to both of you. Let your creative side loose, try creating sceneries and textures from scrap, make your own bunker layouts and designs, don't always depend on reference or especially reuse those already reused VTT vegetation sceneries. They look good and we all have used them sure, yes, but in all reality that's adds zero value to YOUR visual creativity. Take your skills in mapping as a chance to practice your artistic skills, make art and let people feel and see it. Start with fresh things, score big later.

Offline NamelessWolf

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Re: Tw_Borderwars
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2011, 04:48:51 pm »
How so? I think they are fine, in the middle bunker top you can shoot to trenches, and to the side bunker. With barret and ruger too, you just gotta prone. I may still enlarge them a bit, future will show if there is any need.
The underground side bunker has a good line of shooting also, even with auto weapons. It is planned that it's easy to massacre enemies from there, that's why the terrain is relatively flat. But you can't spray straight into the door, the hill stops that.
The thing is that you can't shoot at the area close to your own position. If an enemy decides to just run for it then you will only have time to hit him with one or two shots from an auto before he's on safe ground. Of course you can still blind spray enemies before they eneter your screen but the landscape isn't great for that either, as the sidebunker is only slightly out of sight (and that door actually does stop bullets).

The windows work in a strange way though. Because you didn't put any "Only Player Collides" polygons it is possible to access the windows from the outside. In the middle of the wall is a much better position than inside the bunker. Only problem is that it's not as easy to go into the bunker from there if you're being gunned down (it takes some struggle with the polygons to go through the small passage that leads inside the bunker).
Also I really wonder if you intended to make the outside of the window a better place to shoot from than the inside. Seems strange to me.

It's not just me thinking the windows are kind of useless. Many players on Leo's made the same remark.

You two seem to be into creation of TW much recently so I suggest this to both of you. Let your creative side loose, try creating sceneries and textures from scrap, make your own bunker layouts and designs, don't always depend on reference or especially reuse those already reused VTT vegetation sceneries. They look good and we all have used them sure, yes, but in all reality that's adds zero value to YOUR visual creativity. Take your skills in mapping as a chance to practice your artistic skills, make art and let people feel and see it. Start with fresh things, score big later.
I see your point.

So far I didn't have the ambition to create art, rather than just a nice map to play. Much of what I needed for tw_Plateau was already invented and made in a better way than I would have done it, at least unless I would've put down a lot more work in it than I already did. But.. some day my ambition might be higher.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2011, 05:02:34 pm by NamelessWolf »

Offline Monsteri

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Re: Tw_Borderwars
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2011, 05:06:22 pm »
Hmh. I will try to play it on Leo's a little more, I'll see then what I think about it.

@smiluu: I've got few ideas. I have just yet to make them ;)
Sorry if I'm insolent.

Offline TheOne

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Re: Tw_Borderwars
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2011, 04:16:03 am »
There is.. kind of a polybug in the left base. Step out of your door a few times, out and back in, and you might split into pieces. This reminded me of quantum mechanics.

Offline Monsteri

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Re: Tw_Borderwars
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2011, 05:43:52 am »
There is.. kind of a polybug in the left base. Step out of your door a few times, out and back in, and you might split into pieces. This reminded me of quantum mechanics.
Uhhhh, really? The Blue/Red team only polygons may cause that, I'll take a look into it.
Sorry if I'm insolent.

Offline TheOne

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Re: Tw_Borderwars
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2011, 06:13:01 am »
Alas, isn't every bravo a bit alpha at heart?...

Offline NamelessWolf

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Re: Tw_Borderwars
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2011, 12:59:48 am »
I'm not sure that bug is really something bad as you have to be wasting a lot of time, running back and forth in your own base, to get killed by the door.

Kind of funny though. Never seen such a polybug before.