Author Topic: Realistic weapon's balance  (Read 6231 times)

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Offline NamelessWolf

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Realistic weapon's balance
« on: March 11, 2012, 04:22:50 pm »
Hey!

I just recieved a document from Kamiquasi Steve which basically proves that Spas and Ruger gets many more kills than any other gun, based on statistics recorded at Leo's Realistic Servers between 1st of November 2011 to 10th of March 2012 (the author is still recording stats). You can find it here:
http://html-bin.appspot.com/aghodG1sLWJpbnIMCxIEUGFnZRiBxxIM

With these facts pointed out I think it's obvious that Spas and Ruger are the weapons to power down, if any.

Offline NamelessWolf

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Re: Realistic weapon's balance
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2012, 04:23:22 pm »
My own recommendation would be to add bink for Ruger. It's not realistic to have perfect aim after being shot by an enemy and it gives Ruger users an unfair advantage.

For Spas I guess it should simply hurt less, so it doesn't kill in one shot unless really close to the target. Maybe also make "bullets" spread more at longer distances, so it's not as likely that one player gets hit by all of the burst.

Offline Xadhoom

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Re: Realistic weapon's balance
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2012, 05:16:48 pm »
Agreed.

Offline -Vis-

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Re: Realistic weapon's balance
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2012, 01:52:28 am »
My preference would be to nerf the fire rate on both guns, slightly more on the spas. Also, a small increase in reload time for the ruger. More aim, less spam, thanks.


Offline TheOne

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Re: Realistic weapon's balance
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2012, 04:10:14 am »
Looking at the raw range, spas might even fit in balance with other weapons.
However, not the range itself is most important, since you only see one screen. Spas can kill over a distance of one screen, which makes it unbalanced. Also I imagine a shotgun to have a harder recoil. There are no problems in the realistic mode, to aim very well in a short time between shots. I would increase the recoil and lower the damage over range/lower the range itself.
If spas was harder to aim with, the deagles could gain some importance again.

Ruger is often used for sit- or hide-camping, but many do well with it while running, too. The problem is: You can't stop a good rugerer with your weapon, except for a barret. He kills from a longer distance faster than your spas can reach, and your autos do no harm to him, as he still has a perfect aim after being shot. Annoying is a ruger out of a bush, as you can not spray him. Increase the bink a few steps, I say, so that ruger gets an enemy again - isn't it a weapon close to barret, except for the scope?

Offline machina

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Re: Realistic weapon's balance
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2012, 06:42:14 am »
Well, we speak about it for long time in "Spas is overpowered" but one more topic is a good idea. Next release have to make those two weapons balanced one many people will get feel fucked up in their asses, again...

Offline NamelessWolf

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Re: Realistic weapon's balance
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2012, 08:50:14 am »
The reason why I posted a new thread was to get a discussion based as much as possible on solid facts, rather than everyone's assumption of the weapon balance. You should click the link and read it all.

Offline Vucgy92

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Re: Realistic weapon's balance
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2012, 11:14:17 am »
For me balancing [REALISTIC] :

Spas  [Spas]
DMG: Same
ACC: Same
SPREAD: x2
Finito now it will be a "shotgun" not a long range weapon

Ruger  [Ruger]
DMG: Same
ACC: Same
ROF: +  x1.5 -> x2.0    Rate Of Fire should be greater cause it is a bolt-action rifle

My view  ;)

« Last Edit: March 12, 2012, 11:17:47 am by Vucgy92 »
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Re: Realistic weapon's balance
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2012, 01:59:38 pm »
I'll give the realistic WM some love based on your input as no one else in the developer or beta team seems to maintain it anymore. I'll cook up some nerfs for Spas and Ruger, but which weapons are in need of improving, and how? Unfortunately I can't rely too much on the stats provided since it's only from once source, it mixes stats from different game modes and has M79 disabled on some.

Offline Jerkington XIII

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Re: Realistic weapon's balance
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2012, 08:51:19 am »
I propose less ROF [rate of fire], more recoil, (less damage), and if possible, spread for the spas. For ruger I propose more reload, and less ROF.
which weapons are in need of improving, and how? Unfortunately I can't rely too much on the stats provided since it's only from once source, it mixes stats from different game modes and has M79 disabled on some.
I don't see any big flaws after spas and ruger are done (anyhow).  But if you really ask me, Desert eagles are underrated. Though I haven't played for ages, so don't count on me.
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Offline Mittsu

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Re: Realistic weapon's balance
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2012, 11:10:55 am »
nerf spas a lot, nerf ruger a bit, and it should be good. Changing other weapons may unbalance something again.

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Offline machina

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Re: Realistic weapon's balance
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2012, 12:47:14 pm »
Spas should have maximum 60% of its already power. The matters had gone to far. At this moment Spas is a weapon to spray enemy base from some very long range! This is ridiculous!

Offline Mittsu

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Re: Realistic weapon's balance
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2012, 03:51:28 am »
// Changes from 1.6.2 -> 1.6.3
// Deagles      recoil -4
// Spas         dmg -2, speed -1, recoil +11
// Ruger        bink +10
// Barrett      reload -100, moveacc -1
// Minimi       dmg -1
// Socom        recoil -4
// Chainsaw     fireinterval -1, reload -119, ammo +105, recoil -1

as numbers dont say much to me, i used this balance in soldat 1.6.2 and...

spas was still a long range spam gun that often kills with one hit (if attacking from above), it looked like it was nerfed a lot, but it seems like its efficiency didnt drop much

ruger is all about precision, so i dont know if adding bink to it is a good idea, it may kill the gun completely, either i sucked with aiming against the bots or the +10 bink really makes a difference. Again, good that it's nerfed but i think it's nerfed in the wrong direction. If ruger is not precise then it is useless.

the stats i would mess with for both guns are damage (more nerfing for spas), fireinterval/speed (whats the difference between these two?) and maybe adding recoil to spas was a good idea but i didnt feel much of a difference in gameplay
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Offline Vucgy92

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Re: Realistic weapon's balance
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2012, 04:53:32 am »
 [DE] Same                               My view of balance so right out of the head.
 [MP5] Same
 [AK74] Same
 [AUG] Same
 [Spas] Pellet spread + x2
 [Ruger] Recoil + +x1.5
 [M79] Reload + x1.3
 [Barret] Reload - x1.3
 [Minimi] Dmg + x1.1
 [Minigun] Dunno

 [socom] Reload + x1.4
 [knife] Same
 [saw] Same
 [law] Reload - x1.25
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Offline Mittsu

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Re: Realistic weapon's balance
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2012, 05:33:45 am »
recoil wouldnt change much for ruger

and i dont know is spas's spread is easy to change, since it's not in the .ini file
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Offline machina

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Re: Realistic weapon's balance
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2012, 10:43:50 am »
I think that it's all about Spas's speed. If the speed gets smaller, the overall damage that Spas can make for longer range will get smaller. Spas's Damage should be smaller too, because it shoots with 7 bullets. That gives over 700 damge points! And it will be balanced then. About Ruger, I think it shouldn't be able to shoot so often. This is a bullshit while Ruger users spray with them for lucky shots and they kill by one hit.

Offline Vucgy92

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Re: Realistic weapon's balance
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2012, 08:08:29 am »
Lowering Spas Dmg will make it worser on close combat and no one wants that , its better the spread increases so its damage at close will be great and on far its spread would not allow it to kill like you can now.
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Offline machina

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Re: Realistic weapon's balance
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2012, 10:37:20 am »
You better finding solutions those developers will include. Changing spread is impossible in weapons.ini... I don't believe that devs are going to care about realistic balance so much and get initiative to remake the code.

skoskav made some early updates for WM:
Code: [Select]
// Changes from 1.6.2 -> 1.6.3
// Deagles      recoil -4
// Spas         dmg -2, speed -1, recoil +11
// Ruger        bink +10
// Barrett      reload -100, moveacc -1
// Minimi       dmg -1
// Socom        recoil -4
// Chainsaw     fireinterval -1, reload -119, ammo +105, recoil -1

EDIT: My feelings:
-now Deagles are going to rule. mostly this weapon is able to kill by one shot and it kills maximum after 2 shots. For me Deagles were enough strong.
-Spas is still pwning. Recoil won't give anything because of long FireInterval. Speed is still to big and this weapon will be long range weapon again. We should not forget that Spas shoots with 7 bullets, not 1. So -2 for Damage don't change anything.
-Ruger should have bigger FireInterval. It's really annoying while enemies sprays with Rugers
-I see that Ak is not going to get lower Bink :| Bad info for me but not so bad as info about keeping Spas and Ruger with so overpowered settings
-4 for Socom's recoil is fine and Minimi's -1 is fine even it won't change so much
-I see the days for chainsaw users are aproaching

There's still work to do, but nice to see that changes begin. I hope everthing will be okay when it's finished.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2012, 10:55:34 am by machina »

Offline NamelessWolf

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Re: Realistic weapon's balance
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2012, 02:53:44 am »
One thing I would love to have changed about the Spas is to have the backward push taken away for the player who shoots with it. It's not reasonable that a Spaser can run with 150% speed of anyone else (except for minigunners) and still have a powerful weapon when he gets to the enemies.

I suppose this isn't as important for other gamemodes but in TW the Spas have other capabilities than just killing.

Offline Vucgy92

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Re: Realistic weapon's balance
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2012, 08:57:03 am »
No the   [Spas] 's  Backblast is something special about it and in most servers the only weapon that can you boost ( cause most dont allow minigun) And it's backblast prevents the  [Spas] 'er to run and gun everyone , Cause he gets slower by shooting at enemy's in front .
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