Author Topic: Soldat PolyWorks 2 (WIP)  (Read 12910 times)

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Offline As de Espada

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Re: Soldat PolyWorks 2 (WIP)
« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2012, 08:41:49 am »
know what would be nice? to be able to create polys and compile them to .pms.
I know it's a WIP, but a minimum functionality would be appreciated.

(...)
Component/Shape lib: Round islands and curves may take a while, to be able to define your own shapes would be nice.
Online mode: There is a willing of most mappers I know to co-work, and to be able to just SEE another mapping doing his job and maybe commenting at the same time is a tremendous incentive for the mapper. I think it will make mapping scene more active.
Views: I believe that the main use would be that you can also zoom the views, so you can keep track of the big picture as you map.

Hopefully mapping will be a lot easier, specially the polygon drawing stuff, and more players will become mappers.

I think that automatic overlap will be also possible, because the rules to overlap are quite known.

Following the idea of in-game map making, a polybug tracker would be nice, a player would be able to identify a polybug and register it. Later that polybug point would be visible to the mapper.

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Offline Fryer

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Re: Soldat PolyWorks 2 (WIP)
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2012, 10:41:02 pm »
Following the idea of in-game map making, a polybug tracker would be nice, a player would be able to identify a polybug and register it. Later that polybug point would be visible to the mapper.
I think it would actually be easier to just fix the whole cause of polybugs, than to make tools to handle them. :P
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Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: Soldat PolyWorks 2 (WIP)
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2012, 12:22:11 am »
I know that you can group them (mentioned it in my last post in a similar way).
The idea is that users could add their own tools to the tools menu via scripting/plugins.

But i guess grouping could work out well.
Oh, I didn't realize more tools can be added.. But I think you're idealizing this a bit. In reality it'll take a long time before there will be so many contributors who'd make so many new tools that it'd be impossible to fit them in a single toolbar. So I wouldn't worry about this for now. Should the need arize - then additional functionality can be added to the toolbar, but chances are - there will never be a need for that.

The config menu button was inspired by Chrome. The other idea was to have a tab with config like you can see in mockup 6.
The menubar could have the same settings so you have two ways to reach it.
Eh, I think you've forgotten that titlebars are also used to drag windows around, and people often click on them to bring a window to front if it's not currently in focus. So first of all it may be better to move all the tabs to a separate row. :P And once again, user shouldn't have to see config each time he works in PW2. Like I said, most people set up the program the way they want and don't mess with the settings after that, so there's no need to expose user to unnecessary buttons and options when he doesn't want them. I still think a simple Edit/Preferences or even a button-in-the-corner would be more reliable solutions.

Map settings somehow don't work yeah. Any idea where to put them in the map tab?
Why not just do it like in current polyworks? (Edit/Map Settings)
I think it's simple, it works, and makes the most sense to both new and experienced Polyworks users.

Welcome page would get displayed when you run PW2 it would show the last opened maps and other information and links to other stuff like help so you could get started easily.
It could be placed in the background of blank tabs like, for example, Speed-Dial appears in blank tabs in Opera or Firefox.

I personally find Mirandas Config is just confusing and forces you to search stuff. Too many options and a inconsistent GUI.
But I thought about a tree like structure and i have ideas how to make it work - if we really need it.
I hope we don't need it though. There is enough space in the right side in the config to show all settings IMHO.
Yeah, Miranda's config is extremely messy even with just core plugins. I was referring more to the fact that parts of config are divided into groups and sub-groups, which makes it easier to look through it and find the settings you want. Maybe you're right, there aren't that many buttons (at least on the mockup) so that might not be needed after all.

I'm not sure were else the texture stuff should go and i think it's currently ok it was there in PW and no one complained ;D.
If then it has to get yet another sidebar.
Eh yeah, it's not that big of a deal, and perhaps there may be more menus that will go well with it. Nevermind what I said then.. for now. ;)



Following the idea of in-game map making, a polybug tracker would be nice, a player would be able to identify a polybug and register it. Later that polybug point would be visible to the mapper.
I think it would actually be easier to just fix the whole cause of polybugs, than to make tools to handle them. :P
My thoughts exactly. :P                        ...now get to work!





Online mode
I agree with Tehbugerz0r that this feature isn't worth the effort. It sounds like a great idea, but in reality it may not be as effective as you think. Multiple people working on the same map would require a LOT of coordination in order to keep visual style, layout, polygon structure and many other things consistent across the whole map. I doubt a lot of mappers have what it takes to successfully achieve that.
IMHO in-game map editor would be just the solution if multiplayer is added to it. This way multiple people will be able to work on a map if they want to, but it'll also open up huge possibilities for new gamemodes with destructible/buildable terrain.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2012, 12:31:30 am by L[0ne]R »


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Offline Shoozza

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Re: Soldat PolyWorks 2 (WIP)
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2012, 05:39:42 am »
Ok so how about this:
When you run PW2 or open a new tab you get the Speed-Dail where you can choose if you want to create a new map or open an existing one or go to map settings or config.

The config tab will stay:
It functions as Window title (so you know what tool you use) and
it doesn't eat up a lot of space as it gets smaller when you have lots of tabs open (like you can see in the mockups).

The menu can be hidden:
It will be visible by default it will have all the stuff you need to work but there are more ways to do stuff (via the menu/hotkeys/other gui stuff).

The titlebars are visible (see google chrome) you can click on them and move/focus the window so no problem there (if you meant that).

Other stuff I want to do is:
Make everything more or less popup free.
Opening files and choosing folders will happen in the current tab and you will be able to switch to another tab while the other tab displays the file chooser.
Error messages and info messages get displayed via inwindow notifications (growl like just inside the same window) or alternatively via an external notification tool.
They are showed per tab so each tab has it's own notifications.

I noticed that PWdoesn't care about alt+f (to open file menu) but instead uses the key for additional options. I would like to use alt for the menu though.
Maybe replacing alt (which is currently used in PW) with shift+ctrl is a good solution to this problem.
Alternatively changing states would work: tab ctrl -> mode1, tab crl again -> mode2, and press it again -> mode3.
But that could confuse users as they are suddenly in another mode (remember how you accidentally pressed shift+alt which changes your keyboard layout the first time?).

Online mode will be added very late (if it will be added at all).
It could help people to discuss maps and show polybugs or flaws in maps (could be done with soldat but thats more work for the mapper ;)

Adding tools to the tools menu will be not much of a problem:
Make people drag them out of the current dock and build own tools docks with stuff.
Make docks grow till they don't fit into the screen then add >> arrows which can be used to show more buttons
Make it possible to move docks and change them to vertical/horizontal.

I'll do a few mockups for that stuff if I have the time.

@As de Espada It will take some time till I have a working version I want to try to get it done in 2 months. But it depends on the time I have for it.
Views can also be useful for stuff like viewing what the other mapper is working on in online mode :D

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Offline As de Espada

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Re: Soldat PolyWorks 2 (WIP)
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2012, 10:03:42 am »
Something useful: categorizing/organizing polygon types.
Right now is just a list of all the types. I talked to fryer a while ago, and some check-boxes and 2 sections would do:
What collides: players, bullets - then you can choose alpha, bravo, charlie, delta (default is all),  if players is set, flagger option appears
How it collides (only for players): ice, hurt, regen, explode, etc
« Last Edit: July 02, 2012, 11:53:49 am by As de Espada »
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Offline As de Espada

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Re: Soldat PolyWorks 2 (WIP)
« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2012, 07:24:30 pm »
3 tool suggestions to make mapmaking quicker:
Smooth edit - it is avaliable in most (polygon) editors, the idea is that when you move one vertices, the vertices near it will also be affected (let`s say by gaussian function).
Another idea popped into my mind: the gravity tool. It would modify all the vertices near your mouse, approaching them towards your mouse. It would be a way to easily modify your map (to create hills, or whatever). Of course you will be able to control the force of it.
The third idea is the quick split. It would be almost like the split of the old mapmaker: if you select a vertice and split, the opposite side of the polygon split and the new vertice is in your mouse. There is, however, a tweak to that: if no vertice is selected, then the nearest side of a poly will split. As it is now, the split shortcut is ctrl+L, so the quick split would be shift+ctrl+L. And finaly, when you split, the new vertices should be automatically selected

I would post this in the PW2 pad, but I don`t have the link right now
It is in the PW2 pad
« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 06:25:03 pm by As de Espada »
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Offline Shoozza

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Re: Soldat PolyWorks 2 (WIP)
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2012, 11:07:53 pm »
Yeah the polygon type stuff sounds good.
I'm currently interested in the general stuff not so much into the advanced stuff ;)

I added two new mockups (mockup 7 and 8)
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