Devlog update (2012-12-10) Finishing touches

[14th_account]

As the release approaches we've given the beta team an early build to find any new bugs, test the netcode and sew on some ribbons, all while singing their merry work song.

This has been done since the previous devlog:
* Fixed bug #270
* Keyboard number shortcuts were added to the Esc menu
* Fixed bug #271
* Fixed the script event OnWeaponChange sometimes not being triggered
* Added helpful error messages when loading broken bots or weapon mods
* Fixed two polybugs on ctf_Kampf
* Fixed some weapons not expelling an empty magazine on reload
* Fixed not being able to move while proned and changing or throwing weapon
* Modified dropped weapons to be thrown in the direction you aim, and to inherit the player's velocity
* Fryer I decided to also modify the thrown knife to also inherit the player's velocity, completely changing its range and the how it aims. I told him he was mad, but he didn't listen.

[Dusty]

not really sure if the knife should be modified now that so many of the bugs were fixed. of course the beta is for making sure things work but if people pay too much attention to the knife the real problems might remain unnoticed. why not try it a bit later instead of messing with a good release that soldat really needs?

[Fryer]

* I decided to also modify the thrown knife to also inherit the player's velocity, completely changing its range and the how it aims.

There, fixed it for you! (And don't you dare editing my post again! )
Yup, because I hate all knifers! :-D

[Adam]

* Modified dropped weapons to be thrown in the direction you aim, and to inherit the player's velocity
* Fryer I decided to also modify the thrown knife to also inherit the player's velocity, completely changing its range and the how it aims. I told him he was mad, but he didn't listen.

sounds cool

[Mighty]

Fryer I decided to also modify the thrown knife to also inherit the player's velocity, completely changing its range and the how it aims. I told him he was mad, but he didn't listen.

Really bad idea IMO. Will see how it turns out but... Yea after knifing for years it's gonna be hard, I can see many oldfags leaving soldat now...

[TheOne]

I hope that you have at least one knife-loving member in the testing team to get some honest feedback. If you're no knife user yourself I disagree making that decision on your own.

[Furai]

Shoozza loves knives.

[Irlandec]

I decided to also modify the thrown knife to also inherit the player's velocity, completely changing its range and the how it aims

I think this won't be so successful as far as I understood. But we will see what this brings us,little knifing community.

[themangokid2]

Please do not change the knife. I have JUST NOW learn't the new one.

[Vos]

The knife modification would be very bad idea imo, might aswell say that you would instantly lose another 50ish players of soldat, don't forget that there is still a knife only community around 

Besides that good job on the rest.

[Bonecrusher]

I hope that you have at least one knife-loving member in the testing team to get some honest feedback

Im beta too and strongly disagree with any combat knife changes.

[Vucgy92]

I would like to see something changed at the minigun , its a dead/noob weapon.

[14th_account]

It was mentioned in some previous devlogs how Minigun got improvements in its netcode, and some hours with the beta team seems to confirm the effects so much that it's blatantly overpowered.

If you had some other ideas for it then that's what the suggestion board is for.

[Mittsu]

undo the autodemo changes!

[DorkeyDear]

I'm not much of a knifer, but I do think it would add an interesting element of new gameplay for knife throwing (Of course people will be upset).

Pretty exciting times for Soldat, huh? Almost at a release it seems. I'm getting excited!

[As de Espada]

good job devs! and I also suggest that the knife gameplay change is postponed because you changed a lot of (non gameplay) stuff on this patch.

[L[0ne]R]

It seems a lot of players are against knife changes (I'm not a "pr0 knif3r" so it's hard for me to tell why), but I'd like to at least give the new knife a try before (and if) it's changed back. Maybe make it a server option?

[iAmBullet]

Changing the knife to react based on your velocity would make the game realistic but I don't think that's why people play KO. Maybe you could add it to r/s but in KO, many people have their own knifing/playing styles with the foundation of how the knife is thrown atm, and changing the knife would mean everybody adjusting to a new style. As people have said before, the knifing community would lose even more people..

[L[0ne]R]

Maybe you could add it to r/s but in KO, many people have their own knifing/playing styles with the foundation of how the knife is thrown atm, and changing the knife would mean everybody adjusting to a new style.

What's so bad about discovering a new style?

[Mexer]

I agree with Loner. Best thing right now would be to get a beta version of this so we can try it out first. It IS quite a risky move...

As a side note, I'm really happy to see that work is still being done for soldat... I thought it reached its EOL or even EOS from the previous update.

[BukkaS]

I decided to also modify the thrown knife to also inherit the player's velocity, completely changing its range and the how it aims

The knife shouldnt be changed at all,many of us still play knife only with clan wars everyday,so we kinda have our little community and a forum: http://kosoldat.forumer.com/index.php ,so changing the knife velocity,it would change the way people played knife only,and would definitely be weird :/ So I think the idea of knife change isnt a good one,but you really did a good job with everything else,keep up the good work

[CheeSeMan.]

Can we get a HURRRYY SHOOZZZAAAA gj again DEVS great to hear beta is out! Can't wait!

[Denacke]

Good work devs!

Knife change sounds interesting to me. Can't wait to give it a try!

[iAmBullet]

Maybe you could add it to r/s but in KO, many people have their own knifing/playing styles with the foundation of how the knife is thrown atm, and changing the knife would mean everybody adjusting to a new style.

What's so bad about discovering a new style?

As far as I see it, there's nothing wrong with discovering a new style but think about it, if somebody is extremely good at knifing the way THEY knife, then the knife gets modified so they had to readjust their style, they'd probably try to for a while then quit. They expect to be the best knifer in an instant but when that doesn't happen, they're probably going to quit knifing. I agree with testing it in beta though.

[Vos]

I think people should reconsider their answer here really.
For the people in the knife only community it's their one and only weapon being modified, I would absolutely be excited about that.... if I were a gunner that occasionally picks the combat knife as secondary weapon.

But people should move theirself into our position, how would you guys feel when your favourite main weapon whatever weapon that is would be changed (you dont know how it would be changed) and with the meaning that you have to relearn using that weapon which used to be your favourite one.

I'm against this whole idea not because I dislike the idea, the idea is great for the general crowd at soldat but i'm against it because of the fact that this little community might die because of such change

[Biscuiteer]

I feel like chiming in here. I understand that it can be difficult to accept your favorite weapon be changed so utterly, but if you think about it, the knife was a bit of an outlier in terms of how the physics affected projectiles. Somewhat recently, soldat has been incorporating more and more physics in terms of ragdolls, projectiles, and now coming up even the weapons themselves. So you could say that the style of soldat is to have a bit more unified physics properties. And then there's the knife, where it almost as seems as if it travels faster and farther if you threw it backwards - or conversely, it seems to travel the slowest and shortest if you were trying to throw it forward, seemingly ignoring your forward momentum. Wouldn't it make more sense to unify the knife physics to go along with your movements? We all know soldat is a mobility-based game, so i feel that the proposed knife change would be a beneficial one - you would simply have to keep aware of your movements to make the best out of your knife, which any good player of soldat should already be doing - instead of having the knife act with its own absurd physics.

I'll go ahead and answer Vos' question up above as well, how would i feel if my favorite weapon or weapons were changed so much that i'd have to relearn them? For me, i'd look beyond myself and see it from a broader perspective - as in all other players. Then i ask myself, is this change going to be for the better? Maybe it would relieve a sort of tense balancing issue where it would have to be remade in order to properly add in other balance points. Or perhaps some other reason, there could be many legitimate ones. In that case, if it does seem to be for the better - no matter how much it would change, and no matter if i were to miss the old weapon (which i would!) - then i would say i'm all for it.

I will end on a note that, i do agree with Loner in that it might be best to have the old knife setting be incorporated to facilitate the change from the old to the new, as we are a pretty small community as is. Just like how we can keep old weapon.ini balances, we should also keep the old knife physics as well.

[BukkaS]

You're not the one to say whether its a good or a bad idea since you do not play knife only nor you know how many years some players played the way it is now. So you dont really realize the situation about changing something which was the same for so many years. 50+ players who play knife only are against this and probably would stop playing if these kind of changes were made. Its like you've been working on something for many years,and some1 just tells you to do it all over again. You shouldnt really be the one saying whats best for the knife.

[As de Espada]

I remember when they added delay on barret... and the game got more dynamic, with more weapon variety
sometimes changes are good. I just wouldn't join with so many other updates

[14th_account]

You're not the one to say whether its a good or a bad idea since you do not play knife only nor you know how many years some players played the way it is now.

Neither are you to say it. The knife being balanced the way it is affects both the people throwing the knife and the ones getting hit by them. This change wouldn't be performed if we didn't have a decent level of confidence in it improving the overall weapon balance, intuitiveness of the controls and gameplay. So you don't want to relearn aiming; what can be done about that? Well, nothing. Life isn't supposed to be fair. You're going to have to relearn the aim. And if the Knife Only community is a bona fide community who are in it for the fun they're having and the people they're having fun with, and not just a loose collection of people who gathered around a glitchy behavior in one of the weapons, then they'll survive this.

[BukkaS]

So you would change this even tho most people dont want it to be changed? Brilliant And another thing,you would lose many soldat players,is this your goal? Knife change isnt necessary and I dont see any smart reason in changing it,if you want to make it more realistic put it in the realistic mode. I rest my case.

[Furai]

Change it.

[zakath]

So you would change this even tho most people dont want it to be changed? Brilliant And another thing,you would lose many soldat players,is this your goal? Knife change isnt necessary and I dont see any smart reason in changing it,if you want to make it more realistic put it in the realistic mode. I rest my case.

ppl always resist change its in their nature. and your failure too see the reason is based on ur own desire to resist change.

[AdamD]

there isn't enough reason to just completely change the knife. changing things for the sake of changing them is not a very good reason, especially when it's pretty great as it is!

if you want soldat to be more 'realistic', maybe you should go back and read MM's blog about what made soldat fun in the first place:

http://mm.soldat.pl/development-log/triple-a-the-story-of-kag-and-link-dead

[As de Espada]

maybe the DAMAGE shouldn't be affected, since it will be almost impossible to kill someone when trying to escape

[CheeSeMan.]

People have spent years practicing all the weapons in CTF... that does not stop the weapon mod changing every version. Why should the knife be any different?

[Adam]

YES,PLEASE CHANGE THE WEAPON MOD

[iAmBullet]

IMO, changing the knife isn't under the same terms as changes to other weapons. The knife is in its own category because it's not a gun where you can spray or reload. It's a one-time weapon until you pick it up again so ultimately, it's harder to get adjusted to and would also be more frustrating to play with at first.
Guns don't really get exponential changes as the one that's about to be affecting the knife. Most of the time, the gun gets improved but in the case that a gun does get nerfed, its because devs think that the gun is too OP in the previous version. If that's the case, do the devs think that the knife is a OP secondary weapon in Soldat 1.6.3? If the answer is no (which I think it is), I don't see a reason why it should be changed. I'd argue that the change is a nerf rather than an improvement to gameplay.
A suggestion for the KO community who is arguing against the change of the knife: You guys could just play under the weapon mod of 1.6.3 so the knife would still remain the same in your KO servers.

[DutchFlame]

be quiet and wait to see how it goes.

its not like your life is in danger here

[iAmBullet]

i would say that soldat is the life of some players

[DutchFlame]

well be aware that no one crashes your computer then, your life would be at an end.

[L[0ne]R]

i would say that soldat is the life of some players

I'm not usually the one to say it but: It's their problem. If they chose to get so attached to a single feature in a video game - they should also be aware and ready to accept the fact that nothing is set in stone and is subject to change.
If they'd said they don't like the change because it makes overall gameplay worse - I'd understand. But quitting the game just because they don't like the change? I can only say I won't miss them.

[BukkaS]

Give me a good valid reason why the knife needs a change? You dont read well if you havent noticed us saying that it would definitely affect the gameplay. Since noone knows a good reason of why it NEEDS to be changed,why then ? If it really needs to be done,could it be done after this big patch,not in this specific one...

[Adam]

Give me a good valid reason why the knife needs a change? You dont read well if you havent noticed us saying that it would definitely affect the gameplay. Since noone knows a good reason of why it NEEDS to be changed,why then ? If it really needs to be done,could it be done after this big patch,not in this specific one...

uhmm wait till open beta then judge?

[Mighty]

Give me a good valid reason why the knife needs a change? You dont read well if you havent noticed us saying that it would definitely affect the gameplay. Since noone knows a good reason of why it NEEDS to be changed,why then ? If it really needs to be done,could it be done after this big patch,not in this specific one...

uhmm wait till open beta then judge?

Question != Judgement

[14th_account]

It's a bit of an argument from personal incredulity though to state that the knife doesn't need to be changed because he can't see why.

Short reason for the change: It's being re-balanced to be a better offensive weapon and worse as a defensive weapon.

[Vos]

I'm wondering if starting any petition for people that disagree with the knife modification would help, just for the sake of our little community

Kind of hoping any developer responds especially Shoozza

[Denacke]

I'm a bit disappointed in all the conservative comments this thread has been getting. These devs are improving soldat and testing some changes.

Instead of threatening to quit we should be encouraging this behavior! This is how we get forward instead of standing in place. (which for soldat means going backwards compared to other indie games out there!)

You have to keep in mind that the changes they are testing are not final. It will be up to us all to test them and give feedback. Feedback can only be given when either properly tested or if you give sufficient arguments to base your assumptions on. Threatening to leave helps nobody at all and gives a really bad vibe towards the devs that are working so hard to give us a new version.

[CheeSeMan.]

I'm a bit disappointed in all the conservative comments this thread has been getting. These devs are improving soldat and testing some changes.

Instead of threatening to quit we should be encouraging this behavior! This is how we get forward instead of standing in place. (which for soldat means going backwards compared to other indie games out there!)

You have to keep in mind that the changes they are testing are not final. It will be up to us all to test them and give feedback. Feedback can only be given when either properly tested or if you give sufficient arguments to base your assumptions on. Threatening to leave helps nobody at all and gives a really bad vibe towards the devs that are working so hard to give us a new version.

denacke ftw!

[ljpiano]

Guys just make it an option, to enable or disable in servers. You might play realistic, non realistic, survive mode, dm etc... Instead of making that knife thingy a unique feature, make it a possibility, so you may activate it or not.

[Shoozza]

Guys just make it an option, to enable or disable in servers. You might play realistic, non realistic, survive mode, dm etc... Instead of making that knife thingy a unique feature, make it a possibility, so you may activate it or not.

While options sound good they really aren't most of the time.

Let me show you why:
Each option introduces another part which needs testing
Each option introduces more code which can contain bugs
Each option requires time to update when things change
Each option requires you to check if the server has it enabled (waste your time you could already play)

It's better to pick the right thing (if that only would be easy...)

[Vos]

While options sound good they really aren't most of the time.

Let me show you why:
Each option introduces another part which needs testing
Each option introduces more code which can contain bugs
Each option requires time to update when things change
Each option requires you to check if the server has it enabled (waste your time you could already play)

It's better to pick the right thing (if that only would be easy...)

So judging from 3 of the 4 points u stated, you might aswell say that not updating or creating something new is the right thing to do?
Isn't it kind of obvious that new updates would need time and testing and whatsoever? So a at first pointless update for me (knife change) needs testing & time but an extra modification to the change (the option to turn it on or off) is pointless because it would take time and testing and might have even more bugs? Yeah that's the spirit!

[Furai]

I love back seat developers. Let Shoozza do his job. He's the best with it.

[iAmBullet]

To the entity of the Knifing Community lurking in these forums:
What's wrong with just giving the new knife a try? I know that the current knife is the one that you've all been playing with for years but sometimes a gamemode needs a well-deserved change. It's kinda unfair that all other weapons have had modifications (some had several) over the past versions but knife never has never gotten one. Try something new for once and if you want to quit because of this small change go ahead, but you all won't quit because you've played Soldat for so many years and such a little change won't make a difference! It's not in human nature to respond to change positively, but just give it a try. If you look at it from a larger scale, you'd see that it's a small change to a small game that really won't affect gameplay much. Hell, it might end up benefitting gameplay more. Changes always take time to get adjusted to so don't shoot this out of the sky like America did to Japan in World War I.
lul

[Vos]

I agree to you iambullet about the fact that most of us havent tried the actual knife change yet, but we do have people in the community that are beta users and from their explanations and opinions we're judging already.

I think anyone would be open to changes, as long as they are nessecary... i guess... but this seems to most of us a very unnessecary modficication which requires us to relearn to use the only weapon we have, which is a pretty hard slap in the face no matter how big the modification is.

And people from this specific community tend to quit allot quicker because of our small community that has been trying to stay alive now and then. so our moral is basically just a tad lower as any regular player i guess.

but after all we'll see what happens once the beta is released to us all.

[iAmBullet]

Well I'm glad to know that you're open to see how this change turns out and in my opinion, that's all that the devs are asking for. It's recognizable that the knife does have sentimental value to the KO community, however I'm pretty sure a LOT of testing is going to be done for the knife to be enjoyed by the majority of Soldat. After all, these changes are being made to benefit Soldat as a WHOLE, not just single communities!
Also a quick question for you:
What's wrong with having to re-learn the knife? I mean sure you could look at it from the perspective that all the years that you've put into this weapon has gone to waste but it really hasn't.
If you look at the statistics (feel free to disagree), wouldn't you say that KO is more or less:
-30% Movement
-20% Strategy
-20% Teamwork
-30% Aim
However, with the upcoming knife change, the only thing that you have to relearn is your aim. You still preserve 70% of the things that you've learned. It's not so much as remastering rather than relearning.
If you follow through till the end, who knows? Maybe you'll end up as a better player than before.

[Mittsu]

if i was in KO community i'd be rather excited and since the only weapon you guys use is knife, the change is fair to everyone.

[TheOne]

I haven't experienced the modified knife myself. I'm willing to try out in the next version, but I fear that if the change will stay then many tricks won't really be possible anymore. It's not only about relearning. In TTW, the knife is pretty important as well. I use to jump off the roof of a bunker, backflip when falling and throw a knife through the window. Or throw a knife far behind me when breaching to hit a spawning enemy exiting the bunker to run after me.

Let's wait and see.

[Mighty]

if i was in KO community i'd be rather excited and since the only weapon you guys use is knife, the change is fair to everyone.

Well, just wanted to say that since you haven't been in KO community, you can have no idea whether you'd be excited or not.

[Mittsu]

if i was in KO community i'd be rather excited and since the only weapon you guys use is knife, the change is fair to everyone.

Well, just wanted to say that since you haven't been in KO community, you can have no idea whether you'd be excited or not.

i play with several specific weapons and i would have no problem with them being changed in their gameplay mechanism

[Mighty]

have you played for 5 years with one and only one weapon that got a critical change after? I highly doubt that.
I also wouldn't have any problem with it if the knife was playable, but it's not. That's why I'm fighting so hard and waiting for a fix.

[Bonecrusher]

More bugfixing less changing please

[Mittsu]

have you played for 5 years with one and only one weapon that got a critical change after? I highly doubt that.
I also wouldn't have any problem with it if the knife was playable, but it's not. That's why I'm fighting so hard and waiting for a fix.

change itself isn't bad, but if you're claiming it makes it unplayable then alright, i'm just talking about a general attitude towards changes

i have to admit though that i don't really understand why someone decided to make this change right now

[Seigen]

Kind of getting off topic.

change for the sake of changing is rather pointless, and like all the people are saying, guns have individual characteristics relative to each other, so any changes in guns can never be as extreme as this is to knives; a change in barret's delay for example hardly affects gameplay, it's still a one shot weapon, but to change completely the way a knife moves through the air is the same as changing a barret bullet to move in the same way as an M79's.

@Mittsu

if i was in KO community i'd be rather excited and since the only weapon you guys use is knife, the change is fair to everyone

Yeah

IF

, please don't just assume; how can so many players of knife only be against this change and then you, one who does't play have any idea.

@iAmBullet

Well I'm glad to know that you're open to see how this change turns out and in my opinion, that's all that the devs are asking for. It's recognizable that the knife does have sentimental value to the KO community, however I'm pretty sure a LOT of testing is going to be done for the knife to be enjoyed by the majority of Soldat. After all, these changes are being made to benefit Soldat as a WHOLE, not just single communities!
Also a quick question for you:
What's wrong with having to re-learn the knife? I mean sure you could look at it from the perspective that all the years that you've put into this weapon has gone to waste but it really hasn't.
If you look at the statistics (feel free to disagree), wouldn't you say that KO is more or less:
-30% Movement
-20% Strategy
-20% Teamwork
-30% Aim
However, with the upcoming knife change, the only thing that you have to relearn is your aim. You still preserve 70% of the things that you've learned. It's not so much as remastering rather than relearning.
If you follow through till the end, who knows? Maybe you'll end up as a better player than before.

Another person assuming knowledge of knife game-play when in fact has comparatively negligible experience to Knife Only players.

This change WILL affect Movement, Strategy, Teamwork and Aim.... AND For No Reason

Things like

Maybe you'll end up a better player

are really useless, whats wrong with getting better at the knife now? If anything new players looking at how the best do it now is the best way to get better, new players will watch and add their own styles constantly improving it.

@Denacke

Neither are you to say it. The knife being balanced the way it is affects both the people throwing the knife and the ones getting hit by them. This change wouldn't be performed if we didn't have a decent level of confidence in it improving the overall weapon balance, intuitiveness of the controls and gameplay. So you don't want to relearn aiming; what can be done about that? Well, nothing. Life isn't supposed to be fair. You're going to have to relearn the aim. And if the Knife Only community is a bona fide community who are in it for the fun they're having and the people they're having fun with, and not just a loose collection of people who gathered around a glitchy behavior in one of the weapons, then they'll survive this.

Any change of any weapon affects every player, just because this happens doesn't make it fair; it's unfair because there has been no such drastic change since the inception of Soldat. Clearly some members of the "devteam" are against this change, and you still believe you have a decent level of confidence? How is the dev team even selected?

Life isn't supposed to be fair

Yeah because Soldat is life isn't it? or just yours.

[DutchFlame]

Yeah because Soldat is life isn't it? or just yours.

just deal with it.

your life is soldat, otherwise you wouldn't argue so much about this

[Seigen]

Yeah because Soldat is life isn't it? or just yours.

just deal with it.

your life is soldat, otherwise you wouldn't argue so much about this

"just deal with it" is the reply from supposedly Soldat devteam member

"your life is soldat" now you think you know me

[DutchFlame]

Yeah because Soldat is life isn't it? or just yours.

just deal with it.

your life is soldat, otherwise you wouldn't argue so much about this

"just deal with it" is the reply from supposedly Soldat devteam member

"your life is soldat" now you think you know me

No one is going to take you seriously if you just keep spamming that it sucks blabla, why don't you have a go at it first for a longer time then max 5 minutes to an hour.

People are so stickied to their ''weapons'' yet the game is not even made by them and they expect that THEIR KNIFE or THEIR ak74 is never going to change.

You didn't even applaud for the devs once that they did a good job by fixing all these bugs etc.

How do you suppose I should act to you my friend?

Please stop whining about how bad it is and instead give some useful advice on how it would be better or try it for a few months, maybe you are really good at the new velocity change who knows!

[Mittsu]

@Mittsu

if i was in KO community i'd be rather excited and since the only weapon you guys use is knife, the change is fair to everyone

Yeah

IF

, please don't just assume; how can so many players of knife only be against this change and then you, one who does't play have any idea.

i already replied to this kind of accusation:

if i was in KO community i'd be rather excited and since the only weapon you guys use is knife, the change is fair to everyone.

Well, just wanted to say that since you haven't been in KO community, you can have no idea whether you'd be excited or not.

i play with several specific weapons and i would have no problem with them being changed in their gameplay mechanism

besides, as far as i know, every other weapon has velocity addition and i don't complain even though i use them

[Vos]

Yeah because Soldat is life isn't it? or just yours.

just deal with it.

your life is soldat, otherwise you wouldn't argue so much about this

"just deal with it" is the reply from supposedly Soldat devteam member

"your life is soldat" now you think you know me

No one is going to take you seriously if you just keep spamming that it sucks blabla, why don't you have a go at it first for a longer time then max 5 minutes to an hour.

People are so stickied to their ''weapons'' yet the game is not even made by them and they expect that THEIR KNIFE or THEIR ak74 is never going to change.

You didn't even applaud for the devs once that they did a good job by fixing all these bugs etc.

How do you suppose I should act to you my friend?

Please stop whining about how bad it is and instead give some useful advice on how it would be better or try it for a few months, maybe you are really good at the new velocity change who knows!

You're pretty big mouthed for someone stepping in to the discussion,
he actually did give the devs credit for everything but the change earlier, funny how some people get into this conversation without actually knowing shit, just like you now.
Neither of us knifers have posted spam here, we have given dozens of reasons & arguments why this modification should not take place
anyways I can't be bothered to explain everything once again, there is a poll running and another discussion in the beta discussion forum

[Seigen]

Yeah there's more than one thread going on about this particular topic

I quote myself from Topic: SOLDAT 1.6.4b4 public beta ready for testing!

I agree with the above, why has there been such a significant change to knife now, when there wasn't anything wrong before? Maybe this is a case of fixing something that's not broken.

This being said, all the other work regarding bug fixes are fully appreciated and thanks for the continuous good work from dev team.

Yeah.... think again "soldat dev member".. I wonder if it was the opinion of just one dev member to "completely change the way a knife is thrown" and anyhoo "Democracy is.........." yeah I think you know what I'm on about.

Comments like that already mean this knife business wasn't worth debating about, so why pretend to start a separate topic up that supposedly takes players opinions into account.

No one like YOU is going to take me seriously; that's disappointing really, since you're... well a member of the devteam of my favourite game.

And I don't think there's much more people worth listening to about knife changes than the ones who use it the most; and an overwhelming majority in that position have already expressed themselves in perfectly acceptable fashion.

I'm treating some members of the dev team with far too much respect.

Just because you've already replied to an accusation just makes it the more important to take heed of it.

[Mittsu]

who exactly was that directed at? ive got an impression you mixed several different people

[DutchFlame]

Seigen this is not the show your emotions about your lovely knife /thread

This discussion just leads into your **hole waiting for something to change unfortunately that won't happen after a gameplay test of 1 hour.

What did you say when you first played soldat?  O M GEE THIS KNIFE SO GOOD? THIS IS MY PRECIOUS!!

You're seriously starting to sound like smeagol/gollum of lotr

Im going to start talking to you, because you're obviously too stubborn to take a good view at this.
My advice to you = Test it for more then a few weeks, and then review your OWN opinion.

Good luck!

[Seigen]

good luck indeed, thanks for a waste of time, now labelled as stubborn; by giving good arguments over separate threads, then getting replies as "Just deal with it".

These arguments will go round in circles; I just feel it a responsibility to express the collective views of KO community. As I expect you've seen our forum?; so actually it's not just my emotions.

you're seriously sounding like you know anything at all from I dunno... the Matrix kkkkkk

I'm not taking this seriously any more.

Bye

[L[0ne]R]

Bye

[Vos]

doesnt matter whether you test it for an hour or a day or month, stays the same really, anyways I think the poll says enough in the beta discussion

[DarkCrusade]

Too much crying. Too. Much. Get over it guys.

[DutchFlame]

doesnt matter whether you test it for an hour or a day or month, stays the same really, anyways I think the poll says enough in the beta discussion

If you can get good at something after a while I don't think it stays the same.

The obvious point here is that you guys are not good at the new knife mechanics and just deny the fact that it's actually a really nice balance change according to other secondaries.

Im not going to shout at you to give it atleast a chance for a longer time, but I honestly think that we all should be mature and be positive to the new changes.

[Mighty]

The obvious point here is that you guys are not good at the new knife mechanics and just deny the fact that it's actually a really nice balance change according to other secondaries.

After we've given you numerous tactical disadvantages of the new knife and nobody actually saying anything close to "I can't aim now, change it back", all I can reply to that is: bullshit.

[Vos]

doesnt matter whether you test it for an hour or a day or month, stays the same really, anyways I think the poll says enough in the beta discussion

If you can get good at something after a while I don't think it stays the same.

The obvious point here is that you guys are not good at the new knife mechanics and just deny the fact that it's actually a really nice balance change according to other secondaries.

Im not going to shout at you to give it atleast a chance for a longer time, but I honestly think that we all should be mature and be positive to the new changes.

gotta agree with mighty on this one..
Bullshit

[Seigen]

doesnt matter whether you test it for an hour or a day or month, stays the same really, anyways I think the poll says enough in the beta discussion

If you can get good at something after a while I don't think it stays the same.

The obvious point here is that you guys are not good at the new knife mechanics and just deny the fact that it's actually a really nice balance change according to other secondaries.

Im not going to shout at you to give it atleast a chance for a longer time, but I honestly think that we all should be mature and be positive to the new changes.

If you knew anything of the knifing community, you would know who we are.

The obvious point that such a drastic change and that humans take time to adjust to any change and then making this natural human limitation a reason for our dislike despite providing many sound reasons and arguments regarding this unnecessary mod, yes absolute bullshit.

[DutchFlame]

You guys play a selfmade mod, what did you expect that everyones going to make balances for your mod. No.

[Seigen]

You guys play a selfmade mod, what did you expect that everyones going to make balances for your mod. No.

Well apparently it's not a balance since the Soldat developer who made this change, and I quote:

voted no, it would make atleast half of the throws useless.

You're looking at it all wrong. Though it will worsen some of the throws possible in 1.6.3, it will enable new ones in 1.6.4. This change isn't at all a nerf, it just requires you to change to a more aggressive play style if you want to stay proficient.

It's not a nerf at all; so clearly you hardly know anything about why this change is going about, nor how it will affect the game, when experienced players have played this game giving numerous sound arguments against it.

modify - @Dutchflame, you are full of shit

2nd modify -

make balances for your mod. No.

I don't think this mod is intended for us to be honest, if it was for us and we're saying there was nothing wrong why change it? - p.s. you're even more full of shit

[DutchFlame]

no its not intended for your mod, neither for knife only players, its a balance for the whole game according to other weapons.

And all i see here is that 4 people from your community keep whining about it, while you could just adjust to it.

and insulting me is not going to make your argument any better, keep your toung down my friend.

[Seigen]

no its not intended for your mod, neither for knife only players, its a balance for the whole game according to other weapons.

And all i see here is that 4 people from your community keep whining about it, while you could just adjust to it.

and insulting me is not going to make your argument any better, keep your toung down my friend.

Do I need to re quote the soldat developers quote saying it's not a nerf, i.e. changed not because he wants it to be more balanced?

Here it is anyway, I'll take out the parts of the quote you don't need to read: -

Quote from: 14th_account on January 04, 2013, 07:51:09 am

This change isn't at all a nerf, it just requires you to change to a more aggressive play style if you want to stay proficient.

If it's nothing to do with balancing the knife out, then actually it's just the selfish intentions of one developer to make using knife more aggressive.

All you see are the people who are representing the KO community, if we were all to post from our community, it would be exactly the same thing; not to mention the poll votes in favour of the old knife physics; not to mention SCTFL players' are also of the opinion that knife changes are unnecessary.

modify - you are full of shit, still...

[DutchFlame]

Dude you honestly think there was no discussion about the knife velocity in the beta team?

Can you just calm down..

And no not everyone in the sctfl community says that, can you please get proof of that.

[Seigen]

Dude you honestly think there was no discussion about the knife velocity in the beta team?

Can you just calm down..

And no not everyone in the sctfl community says that, can you please get proof of that.

I think I know Mighty, Bonecrusher and Bistoufly, to say the least; and there involvement in beta testing, but so what? You're discussing a reason you guys came up with to cover up for One dev team members sole intention of making the knife more agressive...

I also did not say everyone in sctfl disagrees, I said

not to mention SCTFL players' are also of the opinion that knife changes are unnecessary.

and I will quote some here from their topic: Knife velocity change

dicko
SCTFL Helper
Event Administrator
   
Re: Knife velocity change
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2013, 10:25:50 AM »
voted no, and implore you all do the same!

Quinoman
   
Re: Knife velocity change
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2013, 04:53:03 PM »
hell, vote no!

Dusty
   
Re: Knife velocity change
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2013, 01:29:12 AM »

i don't like the knife myself. i have played some beta gathers and it just sees limited compared to what it used to be. what i really dislike is the way the beta team is handling the whole situation; nobody was asked anything and they make changes to things that never needed such a drastic change. and surely it's not the first case. see aim-lag and the map renovations for example.

something i find even more rediculous is that people in charge, mostly shoozza and skoskav, don't even play the game much and i believe shoozza even has admitted this himself. i wish the people in charge were active and respected members of the competitive ctf scene but of course this is only my opinion and obviously invalid. now it just seems that the beta crew is a circle jerk of people who are active on the official soldat forums


cause most of the devs don't play competitive ctf actively. same goes for the maps and why sctfl should have its own map pool.

sumich
   
Re: Knife velocity change
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2013, 02:47:01 AM »
WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU FUCKIN NERDS RUIN THE KNIFE DID THE COMMUNITY ASK FOR THIS? YOU DUMB FUCKS.

Yeah I think this is proof enough.

How can people who don't play the game have any idea of how it is in gameplay, therefore to make the decision based on his assumptions that the knife needed to be more aggressive is completely ridiculous reason for this knife mod.

[DutchFlame]

thats 4 players of the 200.

[Vos]

Dude you honestly think there was no discussion about the knife velocity in the beta team?

Can you just calm down..

And no not everyone in the sctfl community says that, can you please get proof of that.

No discussion regarding the intention to change, that's for sure.
Also I think you need to read properly, but no worries i will quote the exact sentence for you to read!

not to mention SCTFL players' are also of the opinion that knife changes are unnecessary.

Where does it say everyone??

[Seigen]

thats 4 players of the 200.

and what of the 4 out of 91 members in our knife community you so claim isn't enough for explaining why changing the knife is a bad thing?

I have already explained we represent the overwhelming majority vote because we quite literally run/manage competitive KO community. I am not going to get quotes from all of them expressing the same view, derp.

[Mighty]

And all i see here is that 4 people from your community keep whining about it, while you could just adjust to it.

If you included me, which I suppose you did, you're wrong. Since the inherit % has been lowered I'm not so sure this change is so bad, however, when I see something I strongly disagree with in the discussion, I simply join in and say what I have to say. Still my last major post has been left unanswered.

[DutchFlame]

thats 4 players of the 200.

and what of the 4 out of 91 members in our knife community you so claim isn't enough for explaining why changing the knife is a bad thing?

I have already explained we represent the overwhelming majority vote because we quite literally run/manage competitive KO community. I am not going to get quotes from all of them expressing the same view, derp.

gl then