Author Topic: A few ideas (from other games)  (Read 1164 times)

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Offline Fujifabric

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A few ideas (from other games)
« on: December 22, 2012, 12:34:35 am »
A few ideas (from other games)

I've been wanting to make this topic for a while, and I might extend a little but please check it and share your thoughts. :)

There's a game I've been playing for a while ago called Tribes Ascend (T:A) which has become quite popular and if I had to pick for a 3D version of Soldat this would be it, it has a really fast gameplay and similar gamemodes to Soldat, but of course, Soldat it's very unique as it is.

I don't think Soldat should change all that much, but in recent years there's a lot that has evolved besides just modern graphics, and I definitely think Soldat could implement those... although maybe not now, it'd be good to consider for the future... I understand it's hardly fair comparing a newer game developed by a game studio to our beloved Soldat that has been around for so long and it's being kept alive but some awesome dedicated people who really try to make it good for the rest of us, but still it's worth discussing about features that can drastically improve the experience, so here's a few of those:

Friend's system

A while ago when Soldat's public servers were filled with people who discovered the game or even old players who just wanted to play around, it was common seeing new clans being created, and with time some of those clans got so good that they managed to become well known and even win some tournaments...  some weren't as successful but launched many of the good players that are on the competitive scene now, some didn't get any of those things, except maybe something more important and meaningful, friends.



My point is that you need to start somewhere, and getting good at game modes like CTF is accomplished by playing as a team, so why not make it easy for those who want to start their own clans, even with skill and awards aside, sometimes you just want a team of buddies to play with and having the possibility of getting new ones. A friend system would be ideal to keep in touch with those who you think might be good for your clan, with the chance of going to their server to play with them, or randomly joining your friend/clanmate to the server they're currently in, making servers in general fill a lot more and being it much better than skimming thru empty ones and if you're lucky, find someone you know. Xfire did it for a while in version 1.3 (when some of those good clans came up) but couldn't keep up, so I think it's worth considering.

There's a feature in T:A where you can 'follow' players and keep track of them without them necessarily adding you back, which is good for all those celeb players who are well known and are not really that interested in friending people. It is quite easy to do too, just clicking the player's name and you can be able to follow them, if they want, they can do it back.

Right now the closest thing to that in Soldat is IRC, but it's not nearly as accessible or intuitive.

Ranks



This is a tricky one, I know not everyone is a fan of them but reality is that they work at keeping people interested at playing, for what other reason players in CoD 'prestige' over and over other than for the status it gives to them, having a higher rank than the rest, or simply to just show off the progression they had during all those hours playing, getting a sense of achievement and not simply closing the game and starting over like nothing happened keeps people interested and active, and in the current state of things, it's a good move.

Ranks can also become useful, with the possibility of limiting servers for certain ranks you can put the newest players in a server so they can match with players of the same skill, giving all those majors a chance and not getting destroyed by all the experienced soldiers, making them not give up on the game early; or a server for experienced players which can work like a gather skill-wise, just in a more casual way...  and of course  servers for all! the possibilities are very interesting.
When it comes to unlocking things I think that wouldn't be so practical for Soldat, maybe give a custom gear if you reach certain point, but that's about it... and that brings me to my next point.

Customizing



Even if it's just a bunch of pixels, you want your soldier to be unique and stand out... why not give players that possibility? So far you can achieve that through modding, but that would only change things as you see them. I'd like to be able to have exclusive things that everyone else can see, maybe something that you can get by reaching a high rank or even paying for it, as long as it doesn't change the gameplay at all, it can help monetizing the game a bit, helping the Devs in the process.

The range of things to customize it's quite big, for example, skins, voices, gear, hats! and people love having those things and would be more likely to pay for them rather than for a registration that doesn't do much at the moment.

Accomplishments



Let's face it, not everyone can win SCTFL, and when a game like Soldat that has all that many gamemodes and ways to play, even in vanilla CTF you can excel at some particular thing or just do really awesome plays either at capping, being fast, doing long killstreaks or getting lucky with a shot... having that one reward for accomplishing things makes players more engaged in the game and makes them try to develop other skills that they might not even be aware of. Also it'd be interesting having custom accomplishments like 'SCTFL champion', 'Mapper', or something relevant to what happens outside the servers, that distinction could be something new players can look up to.

Movement



Tribes, as Soldat, features jets and crazy fast paced action, and part of that is that skills like speed are taken into account, it is measurable and while everyone can be fast, only with more experience you become faster and more precise. Soldat could use some of that, right now with prone cancel and climbing experience you can move thru maps quickly, but the fact that doing that by mastering a 'bug' says a lot. I believe mastering movement should be something within the game that everyone can use and master.

Community Links in splash screen (Tutorials, news, etc)

This part is really important in my opinion, most new players have no idea of what tournaments are going on except if they randomly decide to check the forums, which haven't been quite active lately. This space can also be used for news about the game itself, upcoming versions, basic and advanced tutorials (that already exist but can be gathered into one place), etc.

If these links are put together with a new menu and start screen, that alone can make Soldat feel a lot more modern, and less "old" which is something that drives people away right from the start, and it can increase the participation in said leagues or cups because everyone would be able to see them.

A story

Most real games have a story behind them, and I believe Soldat it's worth having one, even flash games do. The point of just jumping to the action and killing it's fun but getting in a story increases the engagement of players. Soldat was born because of MM's fascination for Rambo, Terminator and those crazy action packed hero movies, It'd be cool using some of that, even if it's just for a trailer, it gives the game a little more status.

What do you think? Would you like to see something else added in Soldat?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2012, 12:36:17 am by Fujifabric »

Offline Mittsu

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Re: A few ideas (from other games)
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2012, 03:58:00 am »
i agree, as much as some hardcore soldat oldies would see these changes as blasphemy, if we want to improve the playerbase count we need to accept that shit like ranks and achievements have a significant influence on it
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Offline zakath

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Re: A few ideas (from other games)
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2012, 04:44:51 am »
All these stuff are generally great the problem lies in the logistics and cost, having the needed servers to supply all these systems and without a revenue stream I dont see how we can finance it.

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Offline smiluu

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Re: A few ideas (from other games)
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2012, 09:02:36 am »
Movement

Tribes, as Soldat, features jets and crazy fast paced action, and part of that is that skills like speed are taken into account, it is measurable and while everyone can be fast, only with more experience you become faster and more precise. Soldat could use some of that, right now with prone cancel and climbing experience you can move thru maps quickly, but the fact that doing that by mastering a 'bug' says a lot. I believe mastering movement should be something within the game that everyone can use and master.

Some bugs are actually left in to be within the game. Most developers of "competitive" games don't seem to get that limiting the ability of your players to be creative greatly reduces the appeal of the game. Rocket jumping in Quake series weren't originally intended. Somebody play testing an early build of Q1 wanted to commit a suicide with a rocket launcher, but was sent off flying instead. ID software thought it was a cool "bug" and actively chose not to get rid of it. And voila, decades later it turned out to be a major element in game history. I believe the backflips in Soldat has a similar story, they weren't originally intended, somebody discovers it, community notes it as awesome and whoever responsible at the time decided not to patch it out. It's a simple design decision, players become faster and nimbler the more they spend time exploiting these features. Why shouldn't or wouldn't skill be involved in this? Imagine Quake series without rocket jumps, strafe jumps and circle jumps. You could also imagine Soldat without prone cancelling, cannonballs and backflips. What's the point in being good at movement if it's too easy and obvious to master? And what's the point in movement at all if you can't improve using a technique or two? A resounding none.

Offline Bistoufly

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Re: A few ideas (from other games)
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2012, 09:24:13 am »
^
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Offline Fujifabric

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Re: A few ideas (from other games)
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2012, 11:07:06 am »
Some bugs are actually left in to be within the game. Most developers of "competitive" games don't seem to get that limiting the ability of your players to be creative greatly reduces the appeal of the game. Rocket jumping in Quake series weren't originally intended. Somebody play testing an early build of Q1 wanted to commit a suicide with a rocket launcher, but was sent off flying instead. ID software thought it was a cool "bug" and actively chose not to get rid of it. And voila, decades later it turned out to be a major element in game history. I believe the backflips in Soldat has a similar story, they weren't originally intended, somebody discovers it, community notes it as awesome and whoever responsible at the time decided not to patch it out. It's a simple design decision, players become faster and nimbler the more they spend time exploiting these features. Why shouldn't or wouldn't skill be involved in this? Imagine Quake series without rocket jumps, strafe jumps and circle jumps. You could also imagine Soldat without prone cancelling, cannonballs and backflips. What's the point in being good at movement if it's too easy and obvious to master? And what's the point in movement at all if you can't improve using a technique or two? A resounding none.

That's a good point, however in Soldat for the other player you'd look like warping when you're actually just moving fast (unless that has been fixed).
When you said they chose not to get rid of that "bug" it in Quake, that's what I'd like with Soldat too, just that it gets properly done now so people can use it but it won't be unfair for the other player.
The comparison I made with the other game was that speed there had a significant value, and that added a little something to the game, and in a fast paced shooter like Soldat it should be taken into account too.

All these stuff are generally great the problem lies in the logistics and cost, having the needed servers to supply all these systems and without a revenue stream I dont see how we can finance it.

Definitely, this was more of a Santa's wish list than anything, I know there isn't plans of anything like this being done in the short term but I wanted to brought up that they actually "work" when it comes to getting new players and keeping them, even if they look like gimmicks or silly stuff... and the part of customization in free games like TF2 or the one I posted really it's a big source of monetization for the game. It is a big effort however for Devs to implement that, as you said, more servers will be needed, perhaps an account system, web interface and all, but there's other things to do first.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2012, 12:12:26 pm by Fujifabric »

Offline iAmBullet

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Re: A few ideas (from other games)
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2012, 11:55:41 am »
Movement

Tribes, as Soldat, features jets and crazy fast paced action, and part of that is that skills like speed are taken into account, it is measurable and while everyone can be fast, only with more experience you become faster and more precise. Soldat could use some of that, right now with prone cancel and climbing experience you can move thru maps quickly, but the fact that doing that by mastering a 'bug' says a lot. I believe mastering movement should be something within the game that everyone can use and master.

Some bugs are actually left in to be within the game. Most developers of "competitive" games don't seem to get that limiting the ability of your players to be creative greatly reduces the appeal of the game. Rocket jumping in Quake series weren't originally intended. Somebody play testing an early build of Q1 wanted to commit a suicide with a rocket launcher, but was sent off flying instead. ID software thought it was a cool "bug" and actively chose not to get rid of it. And voila, decades later it turned out to be a major element in game history. I believe the backflips in Soldat has a similar story, they weren't originally intended, somebody discovers it, community notes it as awesome and whoever responsible at the time decided not to patch it out. It's a simple design decision, players become faster and nimbler the more they spend time exploiting these features. Why shouldn't or wouldn't skill be involved in this? Imagine Quake series without rocket jumps, strafe jumps and circle jumps. You could also imagine Soldat without prone cancelling, cannonballs and backflips. What's the point in being good at movement if it's too easy and obvious to master? And what's the point in movement at all if you can't improve using a technique or two? A resounding none.
Plus this "bug" has been used by a wide variety of soldat players for YEARS. The knifing community started prone cancelling 4 years ago, HnS community 3 years, and all the other gamemodes are just starting to pickup now. If anything, prone cancelling enhances gameplay as it allows to more gameplay experiences that could otherwise not be possible without the prone cancel. Prone cancelling is an invaluable skill to have in Soldat. When people watch runners like me and HaSte do it to perfection, they seem to think they're able to do it easily however the knowledge me and HaSte have behind how to use it to the best it can be used makes us have an advantage. Like any other movement trick, prone cancelling takes a long time to master. The timing to do it perfectly is just as hard if not harder than a real cannonball. Truthfully, the technique itself isn't hard, but the way you apply it to your gameplay is. In my honest opinion, I think that the prone cancel is no different in terms of heightening gameplay versus cannonball or backflipping. In fact, a cannonball actually makes a player accelerate MORE than prone cancelling does (tested by HaSte and I) PLUS it uses up less jet. A regular backflip increases your player's velocity momentarily to go to higher places. All that prone cancel does is that it speeds up your player by diminishing the time it takes for your gostek to get out of prone and it makes it instant. To conclude, I think that prone cancelling complements gameplay by making your player more versatile and nimble, allowing for new gamemodes like Hide n' Seek and Runmode to branch out of this game, increasing the variety of gamemodes in Soldat, thus inviting more players to play Soldat.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2012, 12:10:01 pm by iAmBullet »