SOLDAT 1.6.4b4 public beta ready for testing!

[AdamD]

Can you give us some concrete reasons why the change is bad?

we have, multiple times now.

[Mittsu]

Well I suggest you read back then, there have been multiple answers given to your questions with explanations, can't believe you missed them really as they were the subject of this discussion.
enough said I think.. if these answers didnt satisfy you then i'm afraid you might aswell say: I dont care what you guys think or find about the change

Also you seem to be talking about the change as if it's almost nothing , I wonder if you actually tried it, if you really did then I really can't understand you being so simple about it besides that you just might not give a damn about it 

1. i clearly said ive read the arguments but they're not compelling and don't explain this panic
2. i clearly said i tried it, if you're still wondering if i did then you probably don't even read my posts

[AdamD]

if you don't think they're compelling enough then you should stop replying to them. i fully believe these are solid, concrete criticisms of the new knife and should be explored and actually considered, as opposed to just flat outright dismissal and conceit, which is exactly the position it has been met with by members of the beta team. you haven't made any compelling arguments that suggest our opinions are invalid either.

"lol stop being so dramatic, life isnt fair deal with it" this is all i've heard

[Seigen]

so far you've failed to present a compelling argument why this change is so horrible, in my opinion. You just spread panic throughout the players saying it ruins the knife. I'm not narrow-minded, i can see advantages and disadvanates of the change, but you guys are blowing this out of proportions and that's why i'm asking you what's behind this panic? I didn't get a satifactory answer yet. What i see is a slightly harder and less predictable knife to use which really shouldn't be a problem in a gamemode where everyone uses it (meaning it's fair for everyone). Every other weapon changes in each version and no one has risen so much trouble around them.

if you say the change is just unnecessery, i can understand
if you say it's going away from soldat's simplicity, i can understand
if you say it ruins your gamemode, that's going way too far

I don't think you can understand as well as a Knife Only(KO) player, which isn't your fault.

when I said before all the features of the knife must be exploited: - like if you quick step your soldat man and throw it it's a much more powerful throw; you can always kill if their are 2 knives on the floor and you quickly tap f twice throwing 2 knives at close range; the arc of the knife can be controlled by the timing of your knife, so throwing up onto a ledge at an enemy is possible, without the enemy throwing as effectively downwards because they have to throw it in a way that avoid's the 'ledge's edge' and the time it takes the knife to travel is longer therefore meaning a higher ground is not instantly advantageous; moving faster at an enemy whilst above them at a certain range means only the person above can attack effectively at all, but this comes at the cost of less accuracy since dodging on the ground is quite easy in these situations. (I could go on)

In these situations, the knife's ''unremarkable feature'' of controlled distance seems some-what more remarkable I hope; and I believe you can tell I'm a reasonbly experienced Knife only player.

Having had absolutely no problems over my years of play specific to the knife weapon, by this I mean eats and lags which occur for all players playing any weapon, it is a change that is unnecessary.

I believe Shoozza is a member of the dev team? I am surprised he did not see this coming, nor contact the active players of knife only community, despite himself having played knife previously.

The older members of the community is what has kept knifing at a high level, maintaining its standards of skill and experience, and not to mention the running of servers and clans and databases; only such a dramatic unnecessary and unfair change has meant that years of play and experience have been main redundant, which can only be the cause of such dramatization.

Has any knifer approved? Well any knifer worth listening to, that is played more than 3 years at least

[Mittsu]

"life isnt fair deal with it" this is all i've heard

no one said that and it wasn't my approach at any point

i'm mostly replying to opinions that "the knife is ruined" and that reverting the change "saves the community" which is definitely an overreaction and no argument so far has backed up this panic

@Seigen

why would the change need to be approved by knife players? i haven't seen devs asking AK users about the changes or any other weapon really. The weapons must be somewhat consistent and balanced to each other, asking specific weapon users for approval is not the way, otherwise we would have fighting groups of interests with weapon users trying to have their weapons better than the others.

[14th_account]

You could continue the knife discussion in this new topic dedicated to it:
http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=42341.0

This beta release topic is more intended for new bugs discovered. Thanks.

[Seigen]

Change is okay, if it's not so necessarily extreme.

No doubt all weapons have to have their balance, but what was so unbalanced in the first place?

It's fair to say you don't need the change approved by knife players, but now that you have changed it, can you consider the disapprovals.

What can you change so significantly about a gun such as the AK47, who plays Only AK47 anyway? Just because changes to other weapons have been less contested; this is probably because an AK47 will always have comparatively effective features relative to it's other weapons, plus an all weapons player will be able to alternate to other weapons.

[AdamD]

"life isnt fair deal with it" this is all i've heard

no one said that and it wasn't my approach at any point

http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=42258.msg509738#msg509738 i beg to differ. this post is exactly how people against the change have been treated.

[Rzaba]

[BUG]
- Bug #163 is not completely fixed as you can see in the first demo.
- When you are near a polygon and hold the grenade key, the grenade is not thrown, but the safety lever is released (see second and third demo).
- Create a map and record a demo on it. Edit the map (add new polygons for example) and recompile. Run the old demo (the demo will be played in the new map and it looks like when you join a server and have the wrong map version (players and objects flying around)).

Demos:
http://speedy.sh/nFdGr/bug1.sdm
http://speedy.sh/NpER3/bug2.sdm
http://speedy.sh/kZMSD/bug3.sdm

[Mittsu]

"life isnt fair deal with it" this is all i've heard

no one said that and it wasn't my approach at any point

http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=42258.msg509738#msg509738 i beg to differ. this post is exactly how people against the change have been treated.

my bad, missed that one, i don't like it but i can only speak for myself. I think the reason why you're being treated this way is a counterforce of how overdramatic you're being here. If you start with cliches like "we have to save our gamemode" and "it will ruin soldat for us" you can expect things like "shit happens" and "life isn't fair". Seems like what i said earlier was correct, you're not being treated seriously because the level of discussion you obtained doesn't look very serious. If we keep our cool and just discuss facts without going all emotional and threathening we might get somewhere.

[Seigen]

Okay back again, having tested and played on beta for more than 2 hours.

forget about nerfing, it's more powerful; like ridiculously?

Before you say chasing players leaving base was impossible (which wasn't anyway), now leaving base actually is impossible.

Dodgeball would be destroyed, and games would last roughly 10 seconds on average, it's simply a case of who can jet forward and place the cursor on enemy's head first, then a straight line knife is fired, at velocity 2nd to that of Barret bullets.

All it needs is some movement up or towards the enemy to gain so much range or power behind the knife.

Once this is mastered all CTF maps will have no tactical play, because it cuts out defensive playing (blocking and defending base for example), which cuts out more than half of CTF knifing scenarios.

Knife nerfed? not
It's much more "undodgeable", unpredictable, because it's easier to use.

Thanks for a well thought-out, unnecessary change to the knife which was perfect the way it was; which hasn't even served the purpose of devteam's intentions.

[Xdada]

Although noted as done in a previous beta thread, the game mode names are still not linked to the translations in server filtering options.

[Mittsu]

"recording autodemo" line goes over other lines in the F1 menu making it look ugly and messy when you have oldscoreboard on

http://i.imgur.com/hg0dd.png

[CheeSeMan.]

"recording autodemo" line goes over other lines in the F1 menu making it look ugly and messy when you have oldscoreboard on

http://i.imgur.com/hg0dd.png

yeah it also comes up when not recording a demo at all.

[NightKing]

Fixing the flag throw will cause a few servers to loose their players, since there were servers with flag-holding oriented polygons, which now will have no use, since you won't be able to throw the flags anymore.

Worthless change, which will just cause harm, nothing more.

[ExHunter]

Fixing the flag throw will cause a few servers to loose their players, since there were servers with flag-holding oriented polygons, which now will have no use, since you won't be able to throw the flags anymore.

Worthless change, which will just cause harm, nothing more.

this makes no sense at all. How is a polygon related to flag throw? And you still can throw the flag far, just not that easily anymore.

[Furai]

Fixing the flag throw will cause a few servers to loose their players, since there were servers with flag-holding oriented polygons, which now will have no use, since you won't be able to throw the flags anymore.

Worthless change, which will just cause harm, nothing more.

this makes no sense at all. How is a polygon related to flag throw? And you still can throw the flag far, just not that easily anymore.

Just use proper ways for throwing flag far - like spas boosting.

[Tehbugerz0r]

CreateBullet is broken on the client side, the bullets simply won't appear. Watch cbmalfunc.sdm as I use a command to spawn grenades but see nothing, walk forward and die for what looks like no reason. Also uploading nadeswork.sdm which shows the exact same script in 1.6.3(I didn't change OnPlayerDamageEx back so I didn't die when I ran into the grenades, but they still work fine).

Edit: ugh, I hate how people are reacting to this update, it's got problems, but there's no need to be rude about it. It's still in beta, and people are ignoring a lot of the good things about this version, if they get the bugs sorted out, it'll be the best update since years ago.

[McWise]

Throwing nades near to a "vertical wall" will invoke "detonator animation" but won't throw grenades.

I added a demo for clarification. First I try to throw a nade towards the "block flag polygon". You can see that it doesn't work until I move far enough away from the wall. Then I do the same with a usual polygon type, which shows same behaviour.

(I first thought this bug would only apply to those fancy new polygons but apparently it applies to every polygon).

Fryer believes this could be related to the recent "nade roof fix".

Map is ctf_Crucifix, server was soldat://jacobl.se:11113/514

[Hubiq]

When this version (1.6.4) will be released?