ctf_Voland2

[DarkCrusade]

I just looked at all the CTF-maps we had and picked the ugliest one waiting for a remake. ctf_Voland has been around for a long time now, and it was due to a visual over-work for a long time as well. The layout stayed the same, but I reduced the deadly area on top lane to increase the pace at which people can invade the enemy's base or get away from there.

As always: please report any bugs found. I have not tested it a lot yet, so your report will be of big help! Any other suggestions are welcome as well.

[CheeSeMan.]

nice but original is still sexier

[Bistoufly]

Did you use the latest revision of the map as a base?

[DarkCrusade]

No, the original one.

[Bistoufly]

That's a shame, we fixed many polybugs with Bullet and AdE.


Btw your bridge is sexy.
Not a fan of the tree scenery tho.

[DarkCrusade]

I completly recreated the map from a sketch. Any fixes to polybugs would have been deleted anyway the tree scenery is matter to change, because I am not fond of it either. Consider it a dummy

EDIT: I changed the scenery again. The looks were too plain for my taste after looking at it again, so I spiced things up a little.

[L[0ne]R]

I didn't play much CTF, but when I did - this map was one of my favorites. Gameplay-wise that is. Visually it was awful, and unfortunately it's one of the few maps that haven't been remade. It's great that you took the liberty of doing so.

Only a few complaints:
1) The entire map looks the same everywhere, and none of the areas really stand out. I would've liked to see some unique details and sceneries that differentiate left side from right, and maybe a bit more color variation in polygons too. But hey, even if it's left unchanged - I still like the remake a ton better than the vanilla.

2) The bits at the ends and the middle of the bridge look like colliders when they're actually not. You should make them look more different than the actual colliders. Make them a different color and/or more transparent, so it's more clear what's a collider and what isn't.

3) Make the tips of the spikes bright red, so they look extra-deadly, and not just a bunch of harmless sticks.

4)

You should color those bits at each base in a different color and maybe add some small spikes too, so it's visible that these are actually killer polygons and aren't safe to stand on.

I know that issues 3 and 4 don't seem like a big deal to players who already know the map, but keep in mind that we're trying to eventually attract more players to the game. And it'll only be frustrating for new players if they die by something they didn't expect to be deadly. So deadly polygons should be more obvious to avoid any frustrating deaths.

[DarkCrusade]

@Loner: I tried to differentiate the two sides from each other a little scenery and colour-wise. I also changed the bridge and the area below it to become more of an eye-catcher due to it being the focus of attention during games. The bridge on bottom route is what makes ctf_Voland unique actually, and my remake puts an emphasis on that now. I changed the colouring of the deadly polygons to make it more obvious for players that it is not a place to be considered safe and I also removed a few spikes, because it appeared to be too full with edges turned on. I agree with all 4 points you mentioned and hope that I covered them with my changes. Happy testing, the first post has been updated yet again

[L[0ne]R]

I think now the bridge is a bit too much of an eyecatcher. Overall it's a nice change, looks much nicer than before, just needs to be toned down a bit IMHO.
The map still looks very much the same everywhere in terms of scenery. I haven't really noticed anything too memorable aside from a couple unique sceneries which are barely visible. I think you should add a little more (things like piles of rubble, support beams, lianas, random spikes) and make it more visible.
To make it more visible but prevent it from being distracting - here are a few tricks that will help:
1) Try to keep most decorations away from high-traffic areas. Instead put them in hard-to-reach corners or on ceilings.
2) Paint background sceneries in very dark colors, so they appear as silhouettes without much detail.
3) Use 50-60% opacity for small sceneries, 30-40% for medium sceneries, 5-20% for large sceneries.

Here's an idea: how about some red/orange glowing tiki-torches or candles on the roof route, as a counter-balance to a giant glowing blue pit at the bottom?

Here are some good spots for "landmarks". This way no matter which route you'll take - you'll always see a thing or two that aren't perfectly symmetrical to the other side.



Though that's all just finishing touches. The map is already nice as it is, so really it's up to you whether you want to add more detail or not.





Good job with making the pillars at each base have red color on top, but the problem is that you also made the side red too which kinda defeats the whole point. The point is to differentiate a safe polygon from a deadly one, but in this case both the safe side and the deadly top are the same color.

I've made some further improvements (well, at least in my opinion they're improvements, sorry for being nitpicky ):
- Toned down the bridge effects by removing some of the particles that go above the bridge.
- Toned down the ends and middle sceneries of the bridge so they don't look like colliders.
- Changed pillars on each base to only have red top and normal sides + fixed one potential polybug in them.
- Replaced polygon spikes with scenery spikes instead. Now with 1000% more spike!
- Some colliders on the right side were badly offset for some reason, so I fixed that too.

There's two colliders that are not symmetrical on different sides of the map.
I'm not sure if it's intended for balance or if it's just a mistake, so I didn't touch it.








I've attached a .zip with the edited version of the map + spike sceneries:

[DarkCrusade]

Thanks for your input! I added lanterns and orange lights for contrast. I might change them to a green colour if I see it fits better, but I am quite satisfied with the visuals now.

[As de Espada]

this is amazing! if it's not laggy with some small fixes it could be default
one thing that I noticed that the external walls have an inclination that make it buggy. So you can be there without dying (you will be hidden lol)

[DarkCrusade]

I have not tried flying off the map yet. Could you point out where the failure lays? ;O

[L[0ne]R]

Good news. I found more flaws with the map.
You did a really good job with the sceneries by the way, the map looks a bit less repetitive now (though I still think it could use some scenery on the roof, but I can help with that later). For now I just want to point out a few bugs I found:



1) The walls of the entrance to the top route (directly above the flags on both bases) are not steep enough, so you can actually camp on the side of the wall. Change them to "ice" so it's impossible to stick to the wall, or if that doesnt work - make them a bit steeper.

2) A polybug, very easy to reproduce. It's present on both sides.

3) In the original, this ledge in both bases is supposed to regenerate health, but in the remake it's just a regular polygon.


Also, this is my personal opinion really, but the entrance to the middle route should be made a bit easier to access in my opinion. These polygons often cause you to polybounce or just miss the entrance to the middle route when coming in at a certain angle. Personally, I find this to be annoying and maybe they should be changed to something like this:

[DarkCrusade]

@Loner: That's really great news!

1) These polygons are already set to ice. I made them steeper and it would still let you camp there. I don't feel like "turning them over", though, and since I tested it and there is no possibility to backflip to get away faster, I will leave that as an option for sneaky tactics.

2) Fixed.

3) Fixed as well. Never really noticed it in the original version, but for the sake of it, I changed it as well.

I will not update the first post and instead just post the .pms here until we find no more issues with the map. I changed the roof as well as some spots on the map in terms of scenery-usage. I was really running out of ideas for the roof, because I do not really like using custom scenery for remakes, but since I already agreed to the spikes scenery, I used that.

[DarkCrusade]

Is there still interest in this map as a replacement for standard ctf_Voland? If so, I am willing to spend some more time working on a couple of flaws I found with the most recent version, and those you might have. The same counts for ctf_Dropdown3, ctf_Cobra2, and ctf_Hormone2.

[homerofgods]

I think we defenetly should try to make good remakes and replace them with defaults.
No mather how bad I like the old ones it's just a bout time to give people something new and refreshing.

If you want my opinion, here are some points to get you started:


Some more:

The reason why I felt something was missing with the lights was that I play with 'Render background scenery' off in soldat config. You should maybe bring the light-poles to the front or the light itself the the back

Other than that, maybe the middle route could be made a little more interresting. I would like to see something that differentiates from the default layout. Specifically theese parts could look different:



Also, missing scenery:
Spikes1.bmp
Spikes2.bmp
Spikes3.bmp

Good luck

[L[0ne]R]

This remake should definitely be revisited, now that background and platform polygons have been added. Bridge could be made into platform polygons, to allow for more ways to escape when recovering flag from the pit, such as grenade/M79 boosting directly upwards through the central shaft and into the upper routes. Something like that would certainly spice up the gameplay a bit.

Background polygons could also be used to add some variation and decoration to the background, and visually differentiate the routes some more. Maybe something like this: http://i.imgur.com/Kr5SPLG.gif (darkened parts are background polygons).


I also agree with most of homerofgods' points, except for removing the hiding place in the middle route (http://i.imgur.com/v4GopRX.png). I always found it a fun tactic which added some uniqueness to this map. Maybe make it look better but don't remove it.

[Bistoufly]

I had the pleasure to talk with DC about this map recently.


All I can tell you, is that we didn't forget about it.
And that he's cooking something up. So stay tuned!


PS: I agree with Loner's BG polygon suggestion.

[darDar]

Hope he won't waste his time on redesigning stuff and it won't be added to the next version 

I wish it will, but keep the polygons the same and I'm fine with everything.


Should stay though, replace it with some fancy sceneries then.

[DarkCrusade]

Thanks for the input, guys! I find the idea of utilising background polies a great one, and I will try my best to implement it.

[smiluu]

Not sure where you're at, but based on the screenshots scattered in this thread:

-Could use some team distinctive colours in bases, like those deadly walls at each side of the map. One red, one blue. Maybe some colour under the flag as well.
-Lanterns are a good touch, but could look better with 50% less of that bloom.

[DarkCrusade]

I'm working ~11 hours per day as of recently, so I have not been doing as much as I wanted to, but here's a screen of what I have right now. I believe this map will be quite gorgeous when it's finally done!

[Bistoufly]

I'm working ~11 hours per day as of recently, so I have not been doing as much as I wanted to, but here's a screen of what I have right now. I believe this map will be quite gorgeous when it's finally done!

I like these background structures. Looks pretty cool!

[darDar]

any news DC ?

[DarkCrusade]

I am still working on this map, and hope is not lost! It is a tough one, though, because I want to do so many things in regards to visuals.

[homerofgods]

Just an idea: Make it easyer to see where the deadly part starts and ends on the roof. Maybe you could make the whole roof deadly but have some platforms to land on on the way. In return maybe open up the roof some more? (wider opening from upper route to roof)

[DarkCrusade]

Spot on suggestion. I will have that changed! Hope to have a ready concept to show soon.

[L[0ne]R]

Just an idea: Make it easyer to see where the deadly part starts and ends on the roof. Maybe you could make the whole roof deadly but have some platforms to land on on the way. In return maybe open up the roof some more? (wider opening from upper route to roof)

I really love that idea too. I always thought the roof was a bit bland, and this sounds like it'll make it a more accessible route but at the same time more dangerous. Looking forward to the next version.

[Ricrylonten]

Really cool re-imagining, but please keep the "hiding" scenery near the entrance of each mid route!

Seriously though, good job. As I'm sure you're aware, it's very difficult to please Soldat players when anything is done to disturb "classic" maps, but I think this remake will be very well-received (by the SCTFL community, at least) if it were to replace the original.

[DarkCrusade]

Thanks for the input! It's nice to have such positive feedback.

I do not plan to continue on any of my past mapping projects, as none of the devs appear to be interested at all.

[nosejj]

This remake is quite outstanding if you ask me.

There's two things that I'd like to see in it however:
• Longer death polygon area in the roof section (meet half way with the original).
• Another hiding triangle polygon in mid section (here would be good).

Sides those, should definitely be an official.

I do not plan to continue on any of my past mapping projects, as none of the devs appear to be interested at all.

I think you should upgrade the map according to the suggestions people threw here regardless of the developers, because leagues such as SCTFL could use it.
It'd be super exciting to use this map. Just like old times!


Edit:
Also, could you upload the map including it's scenery-gfx? I'm getting some black squares above the re-spawn area.

[CheeSeMan.]

Thanks for the input! It's nice to have such positive feedback.

I do not plan to continue on any of my past mapping projects, as none of the devs appear to be interested at all.

I think unfortunately the only people capable of pushing new maps into default Soldat were zakath, Suow & fryer... who now are all quite inactive or no longer so interested in Soldat. Maybe Shoozza could shake up the map team?

For example I am sure DarkCrusade, Viral & Puuure could do some great work if they knew it was meant for something

[Ricrylonten]

Thanks for the input! It's nice to have such positive feedback.

I do not plan to continue on any of my past mapping projects, as none of the devs appear to be interested at all.

That's really a shame. Would you be interested in finishing this project if that were to change? We're very eager to feature this map in #gather.eu so it can get a lot of playtesting. Perhaps if the devs notice enthusiastic support for this map, they'll change their tune :^D

I also started a thread on SCTFL forums about this map

[DarkCrusade]

I might give it a go. I have my finals upcoming, so nothing's promised.

[ZdzichU]

I just looked at all the CTF-maps we had and picked the ugliest one waiting for a remake. ctf_Voland has been around for a long time now, and it was due to a visual over-work for a long time as well.

Ugliest one? Bitch please. Its one of 'good maps' in soldat. Will be better to remake something like ash, viet, blade.
Ps: this texture doesnt looks nice. orginal looks more better not even moded. btw. is it looks better with another textures?
http://screenshooter.net/100008044/jshsour
http://screenshooter.net/100008044/ygtsxeu
http://screenshooter.net/100008044/auxtwue

[DarkCrusade]

That moment when you don't know if someone's trolling or not.

[L[0ne]R]

Maybe we need a new map team with DarkCrusade being a part of it.

[nosejj]

Yeah, if the old team isn't functioning, sounds like a good idea. Or even as an addition.
Soldat needs new maps!

[Dusty]

lets just make all maps boring and dark like kampf already is

[Ricrylonten]

Epic. Don't worry; Blade, Death, and Triumph are still nice and garish.

[DarkCrusade]

@Dusty: my mapping style knows more than gray-scale. It just happens that most people love my dark maps. Like my ctf_Kampf remake. I have plenty of colourful rainbow maps to stuff your arse all nice and well, but you choose to ignore that and continue your butthurt rant on how everything is getting worse like an 80 years old Texan bum.

If you can do better, do it. If you cannot, everyone will be more than pleased if you have something constructive to add.

[Name]

One map like that would be great. I wouldn't want too many of them in that style, but I still think the critique is a bit exaggerated. Good job DC.

[CheeSeMan.]

Well it has been added to #gather.eu and it seems even easier to spawn people in their base especially from a distance with barrett, other than that it was great =)

[DarkCrusade]

Hey Cheeseman, sorry for not replying. Been so busy recently. We plan on using the original layout of Voland and my theming in combination. Should make no difference then.

Attachment for Bungle

[Bistoufly]

Thanks Man!


Love the new bg poly style!

[L[0ne]R]

Any update on the remake's status? I've been looking forward to it from the start, and 1.7 makes me want it even more.

[duz]

Awesome. But you could add the blue and red colors that were the Voland signature. Maybe few details with these colors.
Everytime you touch a map, is a good work but I miss the colors. If you had a chance to remake all the maps, we would be playing on black polygons, doesn't matter the map hahahaha

[DarkCrusade]

@Loner: I had passed the map to Haste, and from what I know he has made some good progress (although he has changed a lot of what I intended for the map). Maybe he can drop a line or two on the status here.

@duz: Haha, thank you for the feedback, mate! It is true, I have a thing for dark maps. If I get my hands back on the remakes, I'll try and follow your suggestion.

[CCalp]

@Loner: I had passed the map to Haste, and from what I know he has made some good progress (although he has changed a lot of what I intended for the map). Maybe he can drop a line or two on the status here.

I don't intend to annoy anyone but I really like the look of that remake and would love to see that included as default map. So, has there been any progress on it? (same with the DD remake)