Soldat Fans > Developers Corner
Soldat Server Source + Node.JS
strack:
--- Quote from: jrgp on August 14, 2013, 12:21:17 pm ---
--- Quote from: strack on August 14, 2013, 12:01:02 pm ---Oh you want me to build a clone of Soldat? From scratch?
Ok. Sit and wait. I'll not waste my time on that.
--- End quote ---
So you'd rather we waste our time instead? Rewriting either the client or server in node mostly still constitutes a clone from scratch even with access to the source as you can't use any of it except as reference.
--- End quote ---
No, don't waste your time, too. Continue where it is. Just bug fixing.
With the original source would not be a waste of time.
Shoozza:
Ok now that i have time to reply (not really):
Soldat already uses a unhyped programming language, replacing parts of it with javascript will not make much difference as you still need Object Pascal/Delphi to do the real stuff.
For us it really doesn't matter how much opensource support javascript has. If you are really into coding Soldat you will have no issue learning Object Pascal/Delphi.
Besides that I'm not really convinced that using the C++ plugin feature and Node.js is the way to go for the server.
First it will require us to work in yet another language which in addition has a functional/prototype based concept.
A lot of people misunderstood what javascript is because of the similar syntax.
Second javascript is less efficient than Object Pascal/Delphi.
While this might not be such a big issue there is still the question why we should make the server less efficient.
Third it would introduce another level of indirection which would make debugging more complicated (in addition to the problems the language itself adds).
Then there is the issue with installation which will require server hosts work more to get soldatserver up and running (no more unzip, chmod and run).
The update procedure will require some thinking and the hosts will need some way to restrict any access to the js files for their customers.
Since we use Object Pascal/Delphi and not c++ creating a plugin for Node.js isn't that easy. It probably requires C++ and Object Pascal/Delphi code compilation with some manual linker calls among other conversion steps.
I don't believe the dev environment setup needs to be more complicated.
Over all I think this doesn't sound like a great idea.
strack:
--- Quote from: Shoozza on August 14, 2013, 12:56:12 pm ---Soldat already uses a unhyped programming language, replacing parts of it with javascript will not make much difference as you still need Object Pascal/Delphi to do the real stuff.
For us it really doesn't matter how much opensource support javascript has. If you are really into coding Soldat you will have no issue learning Object Pascal/Delphi.
--- End quote ---
The idea of using javascript on the soldatserver project is the same as the Node.JS development
Part of the Node.JS source is written in javascript and that fact made the development Node.JS faster and better.
--- Quote from: Shoozza on August 14, 2013, 12:56:12 pm ---Besides that I'm not really convinced that using the C++ plugin feature and Node.js is the way to go for the server.
First it will require us to work in yet another language which in addition has a functional/prototype based concept.
A lot of people misunderstood what javascript is because of the similar syntax.
--- End quote ---
Why not? Performance?
--- Quote from: Shoozza on August 14, 2013, 12:56:12 pm ---Second javascript is less efficient than Object Pascal/Delphi.
While this might not be such a big issue there is still the question why we should make the server less efficient.
--- End quote ---
Could be a little less effecient but could be better on production and scalability.
--- Quote from: Shoozza on August 14, 2013, 12:56:12 pm ---Third it would introduce is another level of indirection which would make debugging more complicated (in addition to the problems the language itself adds).
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: Shoozza on August 14, 2013, 12:56:12 pm ---Then there is the issue with installation which will require server hosts work more to get soldatserver up and running (no more unzip, chmod and run).
The update procedure will require some thinking and the hosts will need some way to restrict any access to the js files for their customers.
--- End quote ---
You could embed Node.JS inside soldatserver's directory. With that you have the same procedure.
I think there's no problem with the update procedure.
Hosts restrictions? Would be much better!
The host would be able to configure each server the way it wanted, with the restriction it wanted.
--- Quote from: Shoozza on August 14, 2013, 12:56:12 pm ---Since we use Object Pascal/Delphi and not c++ creating a plugin for Node.js isn't that easy. It probably requires C++ and Object Pascal/Delphi code compilation with some manual linker calls among other conversion steps.
I don't believe the dev environment setup needs to be more complicated.
--- End quote ---
Will continue to need Object Pascal/Delphi?
Shoozza:
--- Quote from: strack on August 14, 2013, 01:38:25 pm ---
--- Quote from: Shoozza on August 14, 2013, 12:56:12 pm ---Soldat already uses a unhyped programming language, replacing parts of it with javascript will not make much difference as you still need Object Pascal/Delphi to do the real stuff.
For us it really doesn't matter how much opensource support javascript has. If you are really into coding Soldat you will have no issue learning Object Pascal/Delphi.
--- End quote ---
The idea of using javascript on the soldatserver project is the same as the Node.JS development
Part of the Node.JS source is written in javascript and that fact made the development Node.JS faster and better.
--- End quote ---
Not really convinced that it would speed up development. Node.js might be a special case here. Soldatserver has also scripting support with pascalscript.
Might be better to use that instead of JavaScript. That would make it look more like the node.js case, don't you think?
--- Quote from: strack on August 14, 2013, 01:38:25 pm ---
--- Quote from: Shoozza on August 14, 2013, 12:56:12 pm ---Besides that I'm not really convinced that using the C++ plugin feature and Node.js is the way to go for the server.
First it will require us to work in yet another language which in addition has a functional/prototype based concept.
A lot of people misunderstood what javascript is because of the similar syntax.
--- End quote ---
Why not? Performance?
--- Quote from: Shoozza on August 14, 2013, 12:56:12 pm ---Second javascript is less efficient than Object Pascal/Delphi.
While this might not be such a big issue there is still the question why we should make the server less efficient.
--- End quote ---
Could be a little less effecient but could be better on production and scalability.
--- End quote ---
Because of the different concepts of the language and the difficulties in debugging and building it. It will be a pain to work with. Node.js uses C++ but we don't.
Also duct-taping that stuff together will be an horrible job.
--- Quote from: strack on August 14, 2013, 01:38:25 pm ---
--- Quote from: Shoozza on August 14, 2013, 12:56:12 pm ---Then there is the issue with installation which will require server hosts work more to get soldatserver up and running (no more unzip, chmod and run).
The update procedure will require some thinking and the hosts will need some way to restrict any access to the js files for their customers.
--- End quote ---
You could embed Node.JS inside soldatserver's directory. With that you have the same procedure.
I think there's no problem with the update procedure.
Hosts restrictions? Would be much better!
The host would be able to configure each server the way it wanted, with the restriction it wanted.
--- End quote ---
Sure they could but it requires them to modify the server js code or us to implement the most common solution as each update could break their customization.
My concern was that the js files can be overwritten via ftp and then the customer could do weird stuff.
--- Quote from: strack on August 14, 2013, 01:38:25 pm ---
--- Quote from: Shoozza on August 14, 2013, 12:56:12 pm ---Since we use Object Pascal/Delphi and not c++ creating a plugin for Node.js isn't that easy. It probably requires C++ and Object Pascal/Delphi code compilation with some manual linker calls among other conversion steps.
I don't believe the dev environment setup needs to be more complicated.
--- End quote ---
Will continue to need Object Pascal/Delphi?
--- End quote ---
Yeah we will have to use Object Pascal/Delphi in the future as the client is written in that language and we want to share code.
Porting anything to another language means more work.
Let's say this is not an option and move on. If we finally manage to make soldat opensource you are free to fork and try your changes (as long as the license allows it ofc but I don't think that will be an issue).
xmRipper:
NodeJS is available for different purposes. The main goal is creating web sites with push capabilities (thats why it is Javascript).
There is no point rewriting soldat server in NodeJS. It will be just waste of time.
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