Complaint on new movement system

[kicikici]

Firstly, big thanks for devs for restoring micro jumps!
After tests (so far) on new beta I must say that movement is almost perfect for me, except one thing explained by Viral in this topic: http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=43273.0

-when on a steep poligon, try holding to it with direction key only, then release it and after a split second ( when you notice you are starting to fall) try to jump away with the oposite direction key + W, if done correctly the gostek won't jump instantly like it used to, but after a "noticible while" (you can see him moving his legs in the air next to the poy, but he wont actually jump). This is even noticible on less steep polygons, but this is the worst possible scenario. Hard to explain but I'm sure you will notice it even if you do not follow these instruction, just jump on/off steep polies and you will surely notice it.

I made some demos - what I am doing on 166 and what (with poor result) I am trying to do on 167b1. This kind of jump is much much easier on 166.

[Lysy z Brazzers]

That fail at jumping from steep polygon, what viral explained in more details, is what HAS to be fixed. Maybe for nonclimbers it isnt even noticable, but for us climbers it is, and it f%$&# up climbing quite a lot.

[15th_account]

Thanks for the test map and demos. I think I know the changed mechanic that is messing you up in 167b1.

In 166 if you pressed both < and > (left and right) you would always move >. In 167b1 it works differently:

* If you press two directions at once you will start moving in the latest direction pressed. E.g. > + < will result in <.
* If you press a direction key, then jump, then the other direction key, you will continue moving in the first direction until either it or the jump key are released. E.g. > + ^ + < will result in >.

So as per your demo... if you move into the wall with > and then press < to prepare the jump you will start walking away from the wall, making you unable to wall jump. The solution here to jump the way you want is to either:

A) Don't at any point hold both direction keys pressed as you're about to jump off. Switch from side jumping right to side jumping left immediately.
B) "Roll" off the > direction by holding ^ in between the direction change. This way you can keep moving into the wall and jump off at the exact moment that the current > side jump animation ends. Do this thusly: > + ^ + < + !>

!> means releasing >

I don't think the new movement system has broken this situation as I just performed 20 of those jumps in a row on that map using technique A. It's just a matter of acclimatization.

[Viral]

If you think it's fine, try to perform this http://imgur.com/SqSrHMm jump on Adi$_Hardcore on 1.6.6. Now come to 1.6.7, and try to do it again, if your jumping technique isn't totally different, you will notice the change. In 1.6.7 its nearly impossible, and my ghostek even did some random breakedance moves i didnt even intended to do ( sth like: instead of jumping off the poly, jumps few px up and starts sliding or some shit, cant even describe it). Its clunky, and i even had problems with getting up there with godmode, because i couldnt perform this kind of jumps while getting there, lol.
The 2 solutions you mentioned (back to the sliding issue we were talking about):
A) You mean Hold >>, release, hold <<+ ^? If so, sadly it doesnt really work, or if it works, its like 2/10 tries - maybe i just do sth wrong.
B) Impractical - sounds like a way-around the problem, and is impossible to do while performing the sort of jumps i mentioned above (adis' map).

[15th_account]

Download link to the map?

[kicikici]

Only .pms file should be enough.

[Viral]

After some deeper tests we came to the conclusion, and possible fix:
In 1.6.6 you could do A/D + W combo on the steep polies without loosing ground under your legs. In 1.6.7 when you press A/D + W your character will move a little bit to the new direction, causing you to fall from the poly (thats why its so visible on steep polies) and THEN jump. So in 1.6.7 you have to do W+ A/D to not fall OR A/D + W simultaneously ( and i mean like very close to each other).

This caused the following problem, when you run up the steep poly, you have to D + W (running >>) rapidly to get speed, then when you jump back, you need to change the direction to the opposite, so
- you hit A + W, but you didnt hit it simultaneously, you loose your ground, and fail like a nub.
- you do W + A, like explained before, but you were running, and in most cases you will jump >> because you actually performed aother D + W jump

So right now you have to  D+W, get speed, release all button mid air, W+A (or A+W simultaneously). Very hard to not stop on the steep poly, when things are going very fast.
So the possible solution:
Make the A/D button + W connection gap like it used to be in 1.6.6, so you actually have time to add W to the direction key before the gostek starts moving. Right now he moves way further in between pressing the keys than he used to.

[Bistoufly]

I tried your map, Viral. I find it hard to get the jumps consistently.
I missed that issue when reviewing the build I received from skoskav for testing.


These kinds of jumps require you to be pretty precise with your key press, release and overlap timings.
It happens in a small time window, so you kinda do it by feeling more than by trying to consciously time anything.


Really a complex matter. I hope you can work with skoskav to find a solution. As I don't think I'm up to the task for this particular issue.

[Bistoufly]

This

- you hit A + W, but you didnt hit it simultaneously, you loose your ground, and fail like a nub.

and this

So right now you have to  D+W, get speed, release all button mid air, W+A (or A+W simultaneously). Very hard to not stop on the steep poly, when things are going very fast.

is what I observed yesterday as well when trying the jumps in 1.6.7b1

I think the timing skills required are too high.


 Maybe we need a solution that allows you to "buffer" ahead the direction key before you actually touch the polygon edge for the "away jump". While still moving towards the ramp. So for a ramp like " / " you should be moving > if you overlap right and left. That means the earliest pressed directional key should decide the direction.

The issue is that behavior is not suited for some other situations. For example when you want to start a flip with a an initial backjump.
 
I'm just throwing out a little idea. Here it goes:
 What if latest pressed key decides the direction when you are grounded. And earliest direction key decides the direction when you are airborne. Could that work somehow?

[homerofgods]

I made some gifs to explain the two issues

1:
My first attempt here is a success because I pressed A+W simultaniously.


2:
Fail:

Success:

[kicikici]

I just would like to ask if we can count on some changes with cases described in last posts. I read that 2 more beta version are planned, so now we have brilliant time to test new solutions before final new Soldat version.  Or maybe this topic should be closed?

[Viral]

1.6.7b2 (also b1)
Find a steep polygon (~45degrees). Now hold a movement key to UP the hill. While still holding the movement key TAP the opposite direction key.
Two results:
If you face the hill you are moving on you will bounce off the poly while taping the button.
However, if you face the opposite diretion, you wont notice the behavior i mentioned above.
So the problem with jumping off the polygons is hardly connected to this problem. Is it the ony reson the jumps got worse? I don't know but it would be a good way to start the fixes. It would be cool to see some changes before the new stable version :C

[Viral]

@UP
1.6.7 - still exists >.>

[homerofgods]

Not sure I understand, but could it be because the walking bacwards animation is different from the walking forward animation?

Like this?

[Moroes]

^Yea there's definitelly a difference between forward/backward. Well I guess it always was but now it's different in my view, can't explain how...

[Viral]

It's exactly this. Is you can see the gostek "jumps" up a little, and you can't perform a jump because you are not touching the ground. In earlier versions the direction change was working smoothly both ways, now its working only when facing the opposite direction you are heading.

[Moroes]

^ Yea that's how it works now.

[kicikici]

Yeah, finally someone discovered main point of this issue.
I believe that skoskav gets a huge headache when he see posts in this topic ;p

[dominikkk26]

Unfortunately, you can not play, it might be good for the climb but I wish zauwarzyć it is subgamemode.