Complaint on new movement system

[BlindMan]

I wanted to upload an attachment to avi, but I had problems with the line. I apologize if my posts appear double.
I allowed myself to record kici demo and I've uploaded on youtube.
I hope that this will be of help. It is visible in 1080HD
Greetings
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pERaNsJ4s0A&feature=c4-overview&list=UUKWqof9rbZqaGxCMDC_deLg

[KwazaR]

To clarify what you can see on this video: it was until release of 1.6.6 that you could jump just a little straight up - obviously thanks to the move we all are talking about. Not only that. I made use of it a loot while I was rushing through maps because it greatly confined the distance of your jumps. I'm not sure if anyone used this in a similiar way but nonetheless, this whole situation considerably makes climbing more difficult and well, annoying.

[Arishi]

Dear Soldat Community

I don't really want to tell you guys the same story all over again, but it's not necessary because most of the guys on this thread share my oppinion on the new version 1.6.6 that was currently released. I was really impressed by the names i read going through this thread, because it really seem to influence the gameplay of most of the climbpros. For me too it was like i joined my preferred climb-server and just felt like a total noob where i had some of my best climbs 2 days ago. With this patch climbers lost like 2 years of climbing practise.

I mean.. don't get me wrong, i don't want to blame anyone for developing one of my favourite games and try to make it better, but this patch really was against the climbing part of our community. Btw i read the rules and know that you don't want to accept climbing as an official mode of Soldat, which i partly can understand. The other side is that i see climbers knowing so much more about the movement system than lots of non-climbers. I mean.. if you had the luck to observe one of the best climbers in a good shape yet, then you just have to appreciate what u saw.

What i think is, that THIS:

Quote from: homerofgods on October 16, 2013, 07:36:14 pm

    Would it be any better if you moved in the direction of the LAST key hitted instead of the FIRST? I'd have to check how that would work with everything else

would solve all climbers problems.(Need to ensure this.)

I hope we all can solve this problem together, because i personally lost my motivation to improve all over again in climbing. And if i don't play Climb-Mode i don't play Soldat.

Cheers
Arishi

[rOy]

In my opinion changes in movement system are the beginning of the end climb mode. When I turn on 1.6.6 first time I felt like an amateur which start climbing yesterday. After this all years pressing both [ left ] and [ right ] movement keys is not a bug, but feature. So I fully agree with the creator of this topic.
Also, I would like to introduce demo which show very useful jump used by many people. After changes it is impossible to do. This jump lets fully control of behaviour and now its gone I called this "minijump with possibility to do backflip". Demo was recorded on 1.6.5 version. I attach a map with modificated alpha spawn. This jump is helpul in many other situations. If someone tells me that this jump can be replaced by, for example miniflips, isnt a real climber.

I Agree!

Now climbing isn't great (1.6.5 was good)

Shitty,fuck system now!

FIX IT !

[Shoozza]

Please don't waste my time with content free "yeah I have it too - and it also hurts a lot really deep down" posts.

I was playing looking at the demos and the current solution for 1.6.6 is to tap <- and press -> if you want to do some the 1.6.5 jumps.
As for what will happen in 1.6.7 with this behavior I'll have to think about some solutions.
The main reason why this move was changed was because of consistency reasons (you always moved ->).
So if there is a way to make this behavior consistent and still allow players to do their jumps then it's good.

[NamelessWolf]

I can't seem to get the installation of the game to work but if things are really changed to:
"pressing both [ left ] and [ right ] movement keys should move you in the first direction pressed "

Then I think you could just aswell kill the game. There's no use in playing Soldat without the basic Soldat movements and I can't honestly believe that anyone could think that this would only destroy the climb game modes. You need to be able to use backflips with chosen speed, direction and height in all game modes. Also mid air direction changes and cannonballs to increase your speed. It takes skill to fully control all these movements but they are all extremely well integrated parts of ordinary gameplay and this change alone would effectively destroy the gameplay in most, if not all game modes.

Perhaps you could find some obscure sub game mode like Steyrs and Soccoms which would still work in the current Soldat 1.6.6, as how it's been described, but that'd be only because in that mode movement is done by firing a gun with reverted and increased push back - thus pushing your gostek forwards. Sub game modes with that kind of movement are however played on extremely rare occasions and only by very few Soldat players. To get them played at all they're usually crammed together with other small sub game modes and put into Multi Mode, which even even as a package isn't all that widely recognised by the Soldat community (which in turn has also shrinked to a small part of the former player base, much due to other malfunctions introduced in earlier updates).

[TheOne]

I do climb a lot and I believe this is not as serious an issue as players take it. Jumps are still possible, only a little harder to perform.
Consistency might help new players to learn the movement faster.

[kicikici]

More players left this game after modifications than started play so I don't think it was a way to increase number of players.

[Dusty]

-- and this change alone would effectively destroy the gameplay in most, if not all game modes.

What?

Strangely enough I didn't even notice this game destroying change and to be honest, I still don't after all these complaints.

I <3 the way many of you exaggerate the issue. It was the exact same case with the running community and some changes that I've forgot already. You keep claiming this and that will kill the game, yet apparently in this case too, you can still do everything you could before.

[BlindMan]

Hi, I have read the messages where you ask us to not flood the board with empty messages.
I apologize in advance if this message will be considered as such.

I do climb a lot and I believe this is not as serious an issue as players take it. Jumps are still possible, only a little harder to perform.

We have known several years ago, in the Last Stand mode.
In short, you know me and you know that I've never been a cheater or a troller or other unpleasant.
And so I want to tell you without offend you that the fact that you're dedicated to climbing does not coincide with what you have written.
The jumps are no longer the same as before, this can be easily confirmed by all the pros in this mode.
I find it useless and not very constructive to say that we can do the jumps as before, because this is not true!

As regards the comment of Dusty, it makes me laugh.

Strangely enough I didn't even notice this game destroying change and to be honest, I still don't after all these complaints.

I <3 the way many of you exaggerate the issue. It was the exact same case with the running community and some changes that I've forgot already. You keep claiming this and that will kill the game, yet apparently in this case too, you can still do everything you could before.

He speaks because he has so many stars under the nick or because it is a climber?
A climber who has not noticed differences is not a climber.

I would like to know if I have hope in a new version or if i must stop play.
I do apologize again if now you are reading you are wasting your time, but these things in my opinion went said.
Greetings.

[NamelessWolf]

I don't know exactly how the new movement works since I can't even seem to install this version of the game. I might have misunderstood what was changed, but I'd still like to point out that movement in Soldat is and must be very complex.

As an example you don't just move left by pressing A. You press A, while pushing and releasing W (if using standard keys). This makes you jump forwards, which is much faster than just "walking". Then you might move your cursor with the mouse right, thus changing direction, press W to jump and hold D (the key for moving backwards, relative to where you were going) for a short moment, quickly turn again and push A instead of D while releasing W. You may also change direction once more by moving your cursor. This should perform a backflip with a specific speed and angle, depending on your timing for the different actions (which are all performed within less than a second, unless holding the backflip until you've dropped some height). You use different variants of backflips while moving around the map in pretty much all game modes, both as brakes, to accelerate or just to change direction.
It can actually happen in some moments (with standard keys) that D is the key to press if you want your gostek to go left as fast as possible. At first I thought that'd be changed in this version and if so it would inflict in a negative way on all major game modes.

What I'm trying to say is basically that the refined movements which are necessary to play climb maps are also featured in the gameplay of CTF, TW, DM and other game modes where combat takes place. Changing the ways of movement is generally not a good idea, although I specifically do understand idea behind the roll out of prone thing.

[Dusty]

He speaks because he has so many stars under the nick or because it is a climber?
A climber who has not noticed differences is not a climber.

Sorry but I didn't quite catch your drift. Is my opinion less valid because:
a) I have been posting actively on the forums, hence the stars
b) You think I'm a climber, yet not a real climber because I haven't noticed a difference
c) something else, please explain

Just to make it clear to you, I'm not a climber and to be honest I find climbing a waste of time as it won't improve you as a vanilla player as much as by playing vanilla itself, and vanilla CTF/DM is all I (used to) care about. This said, I was also speaking only about the vanilla game when I said I haven't noticed the change during the few rounds I have played after the release.

What I'm trying to say is basically that the refined movements which are necessary to play climb maps are also featured in the gameplay of CTF, TW, DM and other game modes where combat takes place. Changing the ways of movement is generally not a good idea, although I specifically do understand idea behind the roll out of prone thing.

Some people prefer consistensy over complexity. I personally don't think the change in question affects the vanilla gameplay at all in the larger scale. There might be a trick or two that are now broken but the usefulness of these tricks in the first place is questionable at least.

[NamelessWolf]

In this case both consistency and complexity seems to be in favour of the old ways of Soldat movement. I don't plan to go much further in this debate since I haven't had the chance to test the changes (and I don't really know if it's as bad as I first thought) but if there's a trick affecting your movement which has been lost I'd say that's definatly something useful being lost.

As an example, would you define dodging a bullet as something "useful"? I would definatly. Same goes for any other motif behind changing your speed and direction in game. Whatever ways there are a good player will find a way to use such tricks in his favour and as long as it's not something incredibly overpowerd those are often the moments which makes the game better.

What could still be positive is the added "roll out of prone" movement. That's an added trick rather than something removed, although I'm used to being a sitting duck if prone without sliding.

[TheOne]

heh, thanks for your politeness BlindMan. not feeling offended in any way, I know I'm not a pro climber and perhaps I miss seeing the tragedy because of that

[2FastRealMaaan]

I 100% agree with you. Its a complete suffer to get over these changes.
Also these issues have taken effect on other modes.
When movement matters, a mistake cannot be acceptable.

[dead_pizza]

Ok, the following text is not meant to be a "pure" logical argumentation, but rather an emonional feedback for a game i do care for:

Don't know if my name means something to someone anymore (m79_climbing records anyone?  ),
but:
-with years of soldat gameplay (since 2006) including all kind of mods,
-having written tons of mods and scripts for soldat,
-and not only having administrated our own JYPD M79-Servers but also many soldat servers for many years,

i can only say:
-this movement change is terrible and sad 
-every single person claiming this change isnt an issue and/or a total complexity downgrade, has no idea about professional soldat gaming

Even if i have never time to play, I - for sure - won't play soldat until this is fixed... but who cares if I play or not, right?

Sorry everyone, for wasting your time   

best regards
JYPD | DeaD_pIZZa

[homerofgods]

It irrirates me that you claim to care about the game, but instead of contribute to finding a solution, you seam more focused on explaining your feelings.

[NamelessWolf]

My suggestion would be to revert the game version to the last one made by Michal.

[Falcon`]

there you go. Happy playing!

[NamelessWolf]

Thanks, though it would take for everyone else to do it aswell.