Author Topic: Complaint on new movement system  (Read 12900 times)

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Offline NamelessWolf

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Re: Complaint on new movement system
« Reply #40 on: December 26, 2013, 03:42:56 pm »
After playing some I can conclude that this change is a complete disaster to the game. You often can't prepare backflips in the way you should (by holding both left and right in a jump until you reach the point where you want to backflip) and it makes a lot of jumps completely impossible. You have to stop in many situations and waste time before you're even able to change direction, which means that there are less situations where you can choose reasonably between two different routes. It also removes one way of dodging bullets.
There are absolutely no benefits in the particular change which makes your character keep running in one direction when holding both left and right, instead of stopping his movement, preparing a backflip. If I wanted to keep running left or right in the air and if I didn't want to prepare a backflip I wouldn't have pressed both keys. I would have pressed just one of the keys.

I wonder just how you got the idea to make the gostek run left when holding the key to run right and vice versa. It makes no sense at all apart from the fact that it partly removes an important way of moving in Soldat.


Although there seems to be a lot of other changes made just now which were absolutely essential to making the game playable again. So many things have been broken before that I don't know where to start and in the last game I played most of those issues actually seemed to be gone. For years we've been stuck with a game which wasn't really functional at all, but removing all those errors doesn't make it a good idea to add others.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2013, 04:03:26 pm by NamelessWolf »

Offline Boots

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Re: Complaint on new movement system
« Reply #41 on: December 27, 2013, 02:18:42 am »
If you guys all actually cared about the welfare of the game you would have been around for the beta tests in previous version before this "bug" was fixed. Not joining up on the forums yesterday and preaching about the game being ruined for ever.


My suggestion would be to revert the game version to the last one made by Michal.
You obviously have no idea!

i can only say:
-this movement change is terrible and sad  :'(
-every single person claiming this change isnt an issue and/or a total complexity downgrade, has no idea about professional soldat gaming
I actually laughed at this post, thank you.  [pigtail]
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Offline Mittsu

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Re: Complaint on new movement system
« Reply #42 on: December 27, 2013, 05:51:09 am »
i have absolutely no problems making backflips, nor do i have any problems with the movement whatsover. I'm loving the roll-out-of-prone addition :D


actually, the thing about not moving right while still pressing left, and vice versa, seems to help with backflipping :D
« Last Edit: December 27, 2013, 05:53:48 am by Mittsu »
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Offline Bonecrusher

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Re: Complaint on new movement system
« Reply #43 on: December 27, 2013, 06:45:41 am »
It made some of the easiest climb maps into try and fail type of jumps. As for beta testing ive never seen beta climb server
« Last Edit: December 27, 2013, 06:50:32 am by Bonecrusher »

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Offline CheeSeMan.

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Re: Complaint on new movement system
« Reply #44 on: December 27, 2013, 12:16:08 pm »
If you guys all actually cared about the welfare of the game you would have been around for the beta tests in previous version before this "bug" was fixed. Not joining up on the forums yesterday and preaching about the game being ruined for ever.


My suggestion would be to revert the game version to the last one made by Michal.
You obviously have no idea!

i can only say:
-this movement change is terrible and sad  :'(
-every single person claiming this change isnt an issue and/or a total complexity downgrade, has no idea about professional soldat gaming
I actually laughed at this post, thank you.  [pigtail]

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Offline NamelessWolf

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Re: Complaint on new movement system
« Reply #45 on: December 29, 2013, 01:10:59 pm »
That boot could be returned by a nice new trainer.

Offline TheOne

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Re: Complaint on new movement system
« Reply #46 on: December 29, 2013, 03:01:20 pm »
There are still players around playing the old versions of Soldat. Feel free to install one of them instead of the current version...
That's a curse with a game being untouched for such a long time. We got accustomed so much, not only to the controls but also to the bugs. That's why you hardly see the improvements but only negative changes.

Offline Bistoufly

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Re: Complaint on new movement system
« Reply #47 on: December 29, 2013, 04:21:55 pm »
There are still players around playing the old versions of Soldat. Feel free to install one of them instead of the current version...
That's a curse with a game being untouched for such a long time. We got accustomed so much, not only to the controls but also to the bugs. That's why you hardly see the improvements but only negative changes.

On the other hand, it's hard to find any improvement in the new left/right key overlap behavior.
I just can't think of any practical benefit in day to day practice of Soldat movement or climbing with the new system.


- If the goal was to make the left and right behave the same: => Congratulation. It is a success.

- If the goal was to improve the movement mechanics: => You failed. There are no advantages to be found in the current behavior.
And it came with a cost: It made a bunch of movements less forgiving timing-wise than they used to be. 


To sum up the opinon of your local Soldat movement nerd:

It looks good on paper.
...but
It doesn't have actual benefits.
...and
It made things harder for most climbers.


I hope that clear things up for anyone wondering what the hell is this issue about.

Offline NamelessWolf

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Re: Complaint on new movement system
« Reply #48 on: January 02, 2014, 11:30:36 pm »
I still don't understand how you can make it out as a problem only or to the most part for climbers. The movements used by climbers are the same movements which you use normally to move around a map and during combat. All players, in all major game modes and sub game modes, lose from not being able to hold the gosteks leg movement in a jump.

I also don't understand how you can define the old working functions of the game as 'bugs', while the destruction of Soldat during the last few years have been categorised as "updates" and "changes".
« Last Edit: January 02, 2014, 11:33:12 pm by NamelessWolf »

Offline homerofgods

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Re: Complaint on new movement system
« Reply #49 on: January 06, 2014, 07:24:30 am »
I'm not a climber or runner, but I want to understand something

In older versions of soldat you had different behavior in different directions. If you were going Left, then start to press right, you would change directions and go right. (The last button you pushed was the direction you would go in, let's call this behavior A.) But if you were going right, then start to press left, you would continue to go right. (The first button you pushed was the direction you would go in, let's call this behavior B.)

Then we found out that we should have the same behavior in both directions, for consistancy. We found out that behavior A was the best one and got that implemented in 1.6.6Beta1.
There was some issues with backflipping that got fixed with 1.6.6Beta2.

I thought we had a very good movement system now and I was happy. But then people complained and there was another change:
So in 1.6.6 (current version) we implemented behavior B in both directions instead.

Now I see people complaining again.
I really can't see why the first fix wasn't perfect, and I want to get to the bottom of it. Can anyone give me some examples or explain why 1.6.6Beta2 wasn't the perfect solution?
« Last Edit: January 06, 2014, 07:28:15 am by homerofgods »

Offline Kabuto

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Re: Complaint on new movement system
« Reply #50 on: January 06, 2014, 08:35:53 am »
The movements used by climbers are the same movements which you use normally to move around a map and during combat.

lol. Really, it is funniest thing I read in this forum xD

The same like in CTF? Go to climb server and watch how many jumps you can make in soldat :]

Offline NamelessWolf

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Re: Complaint on new movement system
« Reply #51 on: January 06, 2014, 10:59:36 am »
The many different jumps are exactly what gives the game potential. The more you perfect your skill - not XP or any of that bullshit but really skill - the more ways you get to handle different situations which you stumble upon in game. That sparks a will to improve and that it takes so long to master all the different variations effectively keeps the game from being getting boring. To keep players from leaving Soldat the game needs to fun not only the first times you play it, but also in the long run.
Climb maps may have parts where you simply must do a specific jump in order to make it through, but to me the most fun for me personally comes from actually using the movements in CTF, TW or TTW in an improvised way and as a means of dominating the battlefield.

The roll out of prone thing might've been a good add. The air surfing thing while kneeling was a really, really bad one - but what troubles me even more are all the tiny variations in backflips which have been effectively removed. It clearly has an effect on the game.

I don't quite recognise that the movements ever did work differently depending on directions. I suppose I could've missed that version. The only problems I can remember complaining about was changes to the movement which made it less agile and simplified it in a way which could only cause problems.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2014, 11:17:47 am by NamelessWolf »

Offline Bonecrusher

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Re: Complaint on new movement system
« Reply #52 on: January 28, 2014, 01:29:00 pm »
Some basic kick jumps in climb are still ridicolously painful to perform unless you have some initial velocity.

Im chill like that

Offline homerofgods

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Re: Complaint on new movement system
« Reply #53 on: January 28, 2014, 05:15:30 pm »
Some basic kick jumps in climb are still ridicolously painful to perform unless you have some initial velocity.
Here's the ticket on movement system: http://bugs.soldat.pl/view.php?id=380
If you can find specific examples on what moves are difficult I'd like to add them to the ticket. You can use <>^ to explain or take a demo of the move.

Btw, I hear that skoskav has fixed crouch-bug / Aladdin for 1.6.7 so you won't need that script :P
I'll be trying to put some more climbing bugs in mantis and get the developers to fix them.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 05:19:01 pm by homerofgods »

Offline kicikici

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Re: Complaint on new movement system
« Reply #54 on: January 29, 2014, 01:26:58 pm »
I also heard about few new fixes in new version. But its hard tell about anything when we dont have access to newest version. I suppose that new version will bring also new bugs, so i dont understand so big delay beetwen versions. When we want to fix this quickly , we should test first, then talk, not like now when we talk and nobody cares this topic.
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Offline Irlandec

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Re: Complaint on new movement system
« Reply #55 on: February 05, 2014, 03:45:28 am »
Quote
On the modes like CTF, DM, Knife etc. its not noticeable
Your words hurt me much..
It is noticeable, we(knifers) already were discussing about new movement system for next Soldat version.
It made some of the easiest climb maps into try and fail type of jumps. As for beta testing ive never seen beta climb server
This brings the idea of making one of the experienced and Soldat-dedicated climber to test new versions, especially movement system. In my opinion, climbers know better about how to move over, perform jumps and all what is connected with moving around. We can also discuss this, since this game is based on community-oriented suggestions, right?

P.S.: Notice the bold points please.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 03:54:05 am by Irlandec »

Offline Moroes

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Re: Complaint on new movement system
« Reply #56 on: February 05, 2014, 05:16:44 am »
Quote
On the modes like CTF, DM, Knife etc. its not noticeable
Your words hurt me much..
It is noticeable, we(knifers) already were discussing about new movement system for next Soldat version.
It made some of the easiest climb maps into try and fail type of jumps. As for beta testing ive never seen beta climb server
This brings the idea of making one of the experienced and Soldat-dedicated climber to test new versions

Well I guess many people noticed the change but the movement in soldat is really complex and hard to explain everything in detail. People have their own playing styles and some of them didn't even notice the change or they just don't have problems to get used to new movement system.

As for the climber to test new versions I believe we've already got one (Bistoufly). He's even runner and knows all the movements well. It got better in 1.6.7a according to him, we will see when beta comes out.

Offline Bonecrusher

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Re: Complaint on new movement system
« Reply #57 on: February 05, 2014, 11:24:06 am »
Yea but limiting alpha phase to a few selected climbers/runners might cause some trouble simply cause of tiny nuanses every other soldat player developed over the years. For all i know he might be using different set of keys and some moves might be easier/harder to perform depending on the settings.

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Offline Irlandec

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Re: Complaint on new movement system
« Reply #58 on: February 05, 2014, 11:30:56 am »
Well I guess many people noticed the change but the movement in soldat is really complex and hard to explain everything in detail. People have their own playing styles and some of them didn't even notice the change or they just don't have problems to get used to new movement system.

As for the climber to test new versions I believe we've already got one (Bistoufly). He's even runner and knows all the movements well. It got better in 1.6.7a according to him, we will see when beta comes out.

I guess experienced climber knows 90% or more about movement than anyone else. If this beta tester as good as he has this position and being competent about this question, then I must say that it's simply not enough - this topic is a pure evidence. Since you claim that "soldat is really complex and hard to explain everything in detail" for most of the people it means that this system needs more specialists than one. For example, climber can test all the possibilities of the system while runner can use this more practically and common for players.

Quote
Yea but limiting alpha phase to a few selected climbers/runners might cause some trouble simply cause of tiny nuanses every other soldat player developed over the years. For all i know he might be using different set of keys and some moves might be easier/harder to perform depending on the settings.

That's why you have OBT for. Plus, player own settings are not that vital for a game, if you ask me. If I understood this right, we are developing the core here, not the "cosmetics" or "additions".

For those, who think that I am offending someone, it's a constructive critics with direct suggestion. Don't take this as a holywar.

Offline Shoozza

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Re: Complaint on new movement system
« Reply #59 on: February 16, 2014, 02:53:44 pm »
Please test the latest beta. It hopefully fixes your problems.
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