Author Topic: Normal mode, barret got gangbanged, any fixes planned?  (Read 16427 times)

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Offline Gdynia

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Normal mode, barret got gangbanged, any fixes planned?
« on: October 17, 2013, 07:09:45 am »
Hello everybody, i guess there are couple butthurt threads about barrets already and i am sorry for creating another one, but this had to be said.

Ive spent around 10 years of playing soldat (ive been changing my name quite often so dont even ask me about my old one, I dont lie) and usually i played with barret and knife at public ctfs... (zabijakas, one shots (there were a lot of them before), other ctfs (bad memory))
i was gettin better and better but recently barret got nerfed in any possible ways. maybe it was OP before, but i guess it was quite hard to master it (except the camping)

and now it became weakest weapon in whole game, these are the reasons:
- mainly this, everytime someone shots you, you get dazzed as damn, no matter where you aim it will shot in some random direction... in previous versions you had to JUMP and it got fixed usually, now its no way to fix it.
- overall damage became DAMN BIGGER, usually when a sniper missed before (because somebody shot him) he has enough time to throw some grenades at the enemy, or a knife, or other secondary weapon, or anything he picked up on his second hand, or even run. Now, once sniper misses with barret hes dead cuz there is no enough time to switch for second weapon cuz ur hp goes like crazy under any of those spraying rifles (ruger, diggles etc too). Dmg increase patch wouldnt be that bad for snipers if not that one thing i mentioned above.

ive explained main problem on image


and this is what is going to happen usually:
1. sniper gets shitload of dmg caused by a weapon that used to have long range (and lot of ammo) but weak damage itelf
2. sniper gets dazed
3. sniper shots not even in dirrection of his enemy caused by being dazed (sniper misses)
4. sniper thinks of throwing a grenade or knife at the enemy but no matter how close he is its still too far cause dmg is too big
5. sniper dies

Yeah, and thats what often happens (not always, of course) to experienced snipers vs majors with low dmg weapons, now think of snipers less experienced countering experienced players with stronger rifle than fn minimini

the thing that hurts me the most is the first reason i mentioned (second is discused in different thread already). I think every sniper would be happy if jump would save him like it was before.

If anyone knows if is going to be changed back or something.. tell me so I know if i should start learning playing with other weapon or not  ;D

greetings and sorry for poor english skill

@edit
oh i realised u call it "bink"
so lets see

summa sumarum

1.6.3 patch:
// Barrett      bink -25
1.6.4 patch:
Barrett      bink -5, moveacc -1
1.6.6 patch:
Barrett      dmg -50(495), bink -5(65)

ive checked the patchnotes from 1.6.3 to 1.6.6 only.

it makes barret quite weak...
another thing is that it the bink doesnt reset anymore when you jump as i said
and another one is increased damage of other weapons

(just wanted to rewrote anything i explained above in smaller amount of words)
« Last Edit: October 17, 2013, 07:37:43 am by Gdynia »

Offline Dusty

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Re: Normal mode, barret got gangbanged, any fixes planned?
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2013, 10:17:49 am »
Your main problem is using the barrett as any other than mostly a situational weapon, especially against players who are using autos. Of course you are getting raped by spray cause that's how it's intended to work.

another thing is that it the bink doesnt reset anymore when you jump as i said
Sounds like a bug fix really, the bink was never supposed to be resettable.

1. sniper gets shitload of dmg caused by a weapon that used to have long range (and lot of ammo) but weak damage itelf
2. sniper gets dazed
3. sniper shots not even in dirrection of his enemy caused by being dazed (sniper misses)
4. sniper thinks of throwing a grenade or knife at the enemy but no matter how close he is its still too far cause dmg is too big
5. sniper dies
You should be taking cover if you die too quickly to respond. If there are no covers nearby you've probably chosen the wrong gun for the situation.

and now it became weakest weapon in whole game
It's still a strong gun, it just requires some game sense and thinking in general. In my opinion the gun is now much closer to what it's supposed to be.

Offline 14th_account

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Re: Normal mode, barret got gangbanged, any fixes planned?
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2013, 10:21:25 am »
Hello everybody, i guess there are couple butthurt threads about barrets already and i am sorry for creating another one, but this had to be said.
This is actually the first one for version 1.6.6.

i was gettin better and better but recently barret got nerfed in any possible ways. maybe it was OP before, but i guess it was quite hard to master it (except the camping)
The nerf I think you're talking about was a change to the inaccuracy system introduced in 1.6.4. In versions before that it was frustratingly unintuitive and difficult to noticeably bink a Barrett user without also killing him. Even if you did bink him, he would never have less than a 33% chance of shooting perfectly straight anyway. Now the inaccuracy accumulated grows logarithmically, meaning the Barrett user gets noticeably inaccurate from the first hit, and inaccuracy added by further shots diminish as he gets more and more inaccurate.

and now it became weakest weapon in whole game, these are the reasons:
- mainly this, everytime someone shots you, you get dazzed as damn, no matter where you aim it will shot in some random direction... in previous versions you had to JUMP and it got fixed usually, now its no way to fix it.
That was a bug that got fixed. Basically inaccuracies from moveacc and bink/selfbink would override each other and make it behave inconsistently. Now the inaccuracies add together correctly.

- overall damage became DAMN BIGGER, usually when a sniper missed before (because somebody shot him) he has enough time to throw some grenades at the enemy, or a knife, or other secondary weapon, or anything he picked up on his second hand, or even run. Now, once sniper misses with barret hes dead cuz there is no enough time to switch for second weapon cuz ur hp goes like crazy under any of those spraying rifles (ruger, diggles etc too). Dmg increase patch wouldnt be that bad for snipers if not that one thing i mentioned above.
Technically the overall damage is at an all-time low right now. Versions 1.1.5 could be considered to have had less damage, but the physics was completely different back then. Though there have been changes to gameplay speed, net code and hit detection that could make it feel as if the damage was increased.

and this is what is going to happen usually:
1. sniper gets shitload of dmg caused by a weapon that used to have long range (and lot of ammo) but weak damage itelf
2. sniper gets dazed
3. sniper shots not even in dirrection of his enemy caused by being dazed (sniper misses)
4. sniper thinks of throwing a grenade or knife at the enemy but no matter how close he is its still too far cause dmg is too big
5. sniper dies
Well Barrett isn't meant to be a solely defensive weapon in this game. In the right hands it's supposed to be great for offense too, which means you should get the jump on enemies as often as they get the jump on you. Fighting effectively with Barrett since 1.6.4 puts a lot more importance on shooting them before they can hit you, and making your first shot count - especially when the enemies use autos.

1.6.3 patch:
// Barrett      bink -25
1.6.4 patch:
Barrett      bink -5, moveacc -1
1.6.6 patch:
Barrett      dmg -50(495), bink -5(65)

ive checked the patchnotes from 1.6.3 to 1.6.6 only.

it makes barret quite weak...
Barrett did get worse in 1.6.4, but has since then gotten better both directly (less bink) and indirectly (most of the other weapons generally got weaker).

If anyone knows if is going to be changed back or something.. tell me so I know if i should start learning playing with other weapon or not  ;D
It's not going to be "changed back" because the old behavior was completely glitchy, unintuitive and unfair. But if you or anyone else have any concrete suggestions then please state them; e.g. "Barrett needs less startup time because I often can't fire my shot before I get hit and binked," or "It takes too long to wait for the bink to reset, so I rarely get another chance to shoot," or "Make inaccuracy obtained through moveacc increase the cursor size like bink does, that way I can better predict my inaccuracy."

Offline Swazo

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Re: Normal mode, barret got gangbanged, any fixes planned?
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2013, 01:00:01 pm »
Quote
Though there have been changes to gameplay speed, net code and hit detection that could make it feel as if the damage was increased.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by gameplay speed changes making it seem like damage was increase? I'm just returning to Soldat after a seven year hiatus and it definitely feels like people die faster (regarding autos at least, one shots, deagles and ruger seem pretty similar). I wasn't sure if it just my memory being cloudy however.

Offline Bistoufly

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Re: Normal mode, barret got gangbanged, any fixes planned?
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2013, 01:46:00 pm »
Quote
Though there have been changes to gameplay speed, net code and hit detection that could make it feel as if the damage was increased.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by gameplay speed changes making it seem like damage was increase? I'm just returning to Soldat after a seven year hiatus and it definitely feels like people die faster (regarding autos at least, one shots, deagles and ruger seem pretty similar). I wasn't sure if it just my memory being cloudy however.


Between 1.6.3 and 1.6.4 there were many fixes and changes (net code and hit detection) that made the weapon hits register way better.
As a result in online mode, you indeed die significantly quicker than before. I'd say it feels to me you die between 10 and 20% faster!

This has nothing to do with the usual little tweaks that are made each versions to the damage attribute in the weapon.ini
These are insignificant. To give you an idea the current damage attribute of the Desert Eagles is 181.
It went from 184 in previous Soldat version  to 181 for the current version.
That's a change of 3/184*100% ~ 1, 63%
This is probably not noticeable even for the competitive players.

Yes, many weapons are way more powerful now. It's not your memory being cloudy.

Offline Bistoufly

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Re: Normal mode, barret got gangbanged, any fixes planned?
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2013, 02:01:45 pm »
The changelog in the 1.6.4 release post lists these fixes/tweaks which probably explain the significant increase in weapon efficiency:

- Added wait time for bullet and explosion push to avoid eating #234

- Modified Desert Eagles' and Spas' networking by re-creating the same pseudo-random pellet spread on all machines #260

- Modified bullet collision checks to scale their granularity proportionally with the bullet's current speed

- Modified client and server to use packet rate adjusting based on current player count by default

- Modified client-server sync method for bullets to be a bit more accurate

- Fixed PacketRate_Adjusting=1 not adjusting much at all and making you lag worse for everyone

- Fixed bullet collision checks assumed the bullet's speed was the same as that of the equipped weapon

- Fixed possible hit detection issue for Desert Eagles due to server slightly misrepresenting one bullet's horizontal speed

- Fixed second Desert Eagle bullet not synchronized properly between clients

- Fixed some hit detection issues due to bullets from certain angles being able to slink through and miss every hitbox

- Fixed bullets fired immediately after grenade boosting not registering




Offline Adam

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Re: Normal mode, barret got gangbanged, any fixes planned?
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2013, 02:10:17 pm »
Quote
Though there have been changes to gameplay speed, net code and hit detection that could make it feel as if the damage was increased.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by gameplay speed changes making it seem like damage was increase? I'm just returning to Soldat after a seven year hiatus and it definitely feels like people die faster (regarding autos at least, one shots, deagles and ruger seem pretty similar). I wasn't sure if it just my memory being cloudy however.


Between 1.6.3 and 1.6.4 there were many fixes and changes (net code and hit detection) that made the weapon hits register way better.
As a result in online mode, you indeed die significantly quicker than before. I'd say it feels to me you die between 10 and 20% faster!

This has nothing to do with the usual little tweaks that are made each versions to the damage attribute in the weapon.ini
These are insignificant. To give you an idea the current damage attribute of the Desert Eagles is 181.
It went from 184 in previous Soldat version  to 181 for the current version.
That's a change of 3/184*100% ~ 1, 63%
This is probably not noticeable even for the competitive players.

Yes, many weapons are way more powerful now. It's not your memory being cloudy.
the netcode feels worse now then the versions before

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Offline 14th_account

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Re: Normal mode, barret got gangbanged, any fixes planned?
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2013, 03:05:08 pm »
Quote
Though there have been changes to gameplay speed, net code and hit detection that could make it feel as if the damage was increased.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by gameplay speed changes making it seem like damage was increase? I'm just returning to Soldat after a seven year hiatus and it definitely feels like people die faster (regarding autos at least, one shots, deagles and ruger seem pretty similar). I wasn't sure if it just my memory being cloudy however.

Sure. To calculate the final damage for a bullet the game uses this formula:
[Damage] * [CurrentSpeed] * [HitboxModifier]

The [CurrentSpeed] is the bullet's speed when it hits. When a player fires his weapon the bullet will have a base muzzle velocity as well as inherit 50% of the player's own velocity. So if you're moving toward the direction you're firing in you'll be adding speed to the bullet, and the opposite if you''re moving away from the direction you're firing in.

In 1.6.4 and 1.6.6 there were a lot of fixes, tweaks and additions that in various ways made it easier to move faster, be more agile and maintain your speed. This in the end translates to bullets dealing more damage, especially the ones fired with a low base muzzle velocity (Deagles, MP5, Spas, Soccom).

Offline CheeSeMan.

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Re: Normal mode, barret got gangbanged, any fixes planned?
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2013, 04:32:24 pm »
I like how the barret works at the moment, easy to use if your not getting sprayed. But seeing as public is just filled with Minigun spray at the moment... I can understand this guy is getting mad.
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Offline ginn

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Re: Normal mode, barret got gangbanged, any fixes planned?
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2013, 02:52:31 am »
I like how the barret works at the moment, easy to use if your not getting sprayed. But seeing as public is just filled with Minigun spray at the moment... I can understand this guy is getting mad.
Barrett was bad before, and now it's essentially useless. Any movement makes it shoot into a completely random direction, you have to stay absolutely still to have any accuracy at all.
Edit: Actually, it's pretty ok to move around with.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 09:28:31 am by ginn »

Offline 14th_account

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Re: Normal mode, barret got gangbanged, any fixes planned?
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2013, 12:47:08 pm »
I like how the barret works at the moment, easy to use if your not getting sprayed. But seeing as public is just filled with Minigun spray at the moment... I can understand this guy is getting mad.
Barrett was bad before, and now it's essentially useless. Any movement makes it shoot into a completely random direction, you have to stay absolutely still to have any accuracy at all.
Edit: Actually, it's pretty ok to move around with.

You're so fickle... If it suddenly went from essentially useless to OK in a matter of six hours for you, then you probably still haven't had enough time to form a decent opinion on the matter.

Offline ginn

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Re: Normal mode, barret got gangbanged, any fixes planned?
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2013, 02:53:37 pm »
You're so fickle... If it suddenly went from essentially useless to OK in a matter of six hours for you, then you probably still haven't had enough time to form a decent opinion on the matter.
Barrett is pretty random, it's probably more luck to it than there's skill. It's to a point where it's playable in non-serious matches, but a serious match movement acc, needing to load the first bullet and it you needing to hit that one bullet, it's not very useful (other than specific scenarios). I don't think it should be a highly viable weapon though, because it's a 1 hit kill, so it's all good, though removing the movement acc while adding more start up time and possibly more bink would maybe be better.

@Gdynia
You're probably playing barrett wrong, it's weapon you need angles cover with, though also very good in 1v1 close combat, and can be used for rushing (but very unreliable... still probably better to rush with than def with). It's a high threat weapon, socom will basically be your main weapon, think of it as an improved law.

I could see that you get frustrated while playing in publics, because it's 6v6+, play gathers instead (tougher opponents, but a lot more controlled and less spammy).
Played 2 gathers yesterday with it, which I suppose you could use to get a better idea of how it'd be used. Camping really isn't viable, because your team kind of needs you to do other things than just sit in base.

First gather
Ctf_Rotten http://youtu.be/ajFiGg-Mytc
Ctf_Guardian http://youtu.be/cXsf-ab78a0
Ctf_Division http://youtu.be/PLvTZqP8Jrw
Second gather
Ctf_Ash http://youtu.be/MXMpXiPuavw
Ctf_Dropdown http://youtu.be/Gg6Ep5prtnA

Hm, actually, I think that the 50% movement speed inheritance is a thing that screws it a lot, it's just way too unintuitive (I guess with experience you kind of learn it, but I have no idea why I hit some shots, or why I aim where I do, because it should miss or go off).
« Last Edit: October 26, 2013, 03:01:01 pm by ginn »

Offline 14th_account

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Re: Normal mode, barret got gangbanged, any fixes planned?
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2013, 03:53:25 pm »
I completely agree that the Barrett's moveacc can make it feel random and unintuitive at times. It's not the 50% velocity inheritance, that's dwarfed by the massive muzzle velocity. It's something I'll be toying around with for 1.6.7.

Offline ginn

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Re: Normal mode, barret got gangbanged, any fixes planned?
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2013, 04:01:03 pm »
I completely agree that the Barrett's moveacc can make it feel random and unintuitive at times. It's not the 50% velocity inheritance, that's dwarfed by the massive muzzle velocity. It's something I'll be toying around with for 1.6.7.
Maybe, though, say your falling down (vertically) and shoot straight forward (horizontally), wouldn't that actually make the shot go off, because of the inheritance?

Offline 14th_account

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Re: Normal mode, barret got gangbanged, any fixes planned?
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2013, 04:13:02 pm »
Of course it goes off, but not by a noticeable amount. Even at a screen's distance it would only be off by about the size of a healthkit.

Offline Gdynia

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Re: Normal mode, barret got gangbanged, any fixes planned?
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2013, 05:38:35 am »
Thanks for answers.

1. I wasnt talking only about 6v6 public ctfs... it happens on 2v2/3v3 too, maybe it seems for you like barret is better there than at public, cause there are less people (less chance to get binked, thats logic), but players at 3v3/2v2 are better, so its same sh*t.

2. I hoped more people will agree with me, i often see mad barret players in game because of all that stuff.

3. yeah you lowered overall weapon damage, but only by a small%, its still 2times higher than couple patches before, making almost unable to switch weapons to kill pro sprayer with second weapon after miss, but thats not the point, i dont care about that, cause the bink is main problem

4. okay, i just wanted to know if bink will be removed or lowered, these arguments were just to quote how barret works right now, i never thought u will do what i want, thats obvious, its your game. no need to flame

5. I am not camping, i am rushing (yeah, its rarely possible, but before if you had skill you could do it) or half-camping between 2 bases (e.g. nuubia) (by half-camping i mean moving nonstop and watching whole area waiting for your teammate to come and then bomb their base together)

6. I hate barret campers but i thought u want to eliminate them. these changes made barret way rather usable in camping (and 1v1 games, but nothing against that), so if u wanted to eliminate campers i dont think it was right thing to do.

7. Yeah, couple patches before (1.6.2 ? or smthing like this) (it lasted for maaany years, not like it was implemented, it was always like this) you could run fast with barret and even if sombody shot you, you just had to jump (while running fast) and shoot, it removed bink, that wasnt that BIG anyway...
@@@@@@@@@14th_account
--------- Playing barret wrong? For me camping always was wrong, and rushing fast while watching the further area in the direction where i run was the right thing to do. It was hard, because you needed to run FAST (to not get killed from down/up/right (if ur going left)). and you needed to watch if nothing blocks you from shootin. I played barret like this through 10 years. If i killed someone or i missed i used knife and nades, and this is how i could get double/triple kill pretty often (of course because of skill).

You may say this is how i could kill more experienced players but thats not true, experienced sprayers (and all weapons pro players, not barret only) always move fast and watch the further possible area on their monitors, so nope, barret wasnt overpowered.

--------- And its not butthurt thread only for 1.6.6, its rather butthurt thread for last patches.

--------- you said it wasnt possible to bink barret player before without killing him before, but yeah it was possible, bink was lower, of course, but if a player is on the same experience level as sniper, he watched THE FURTHEST POSSIBLE AREA in direction he was running. So, if there are 2 pro players (1 barret, 1 sprayer) and they all moved fast while watching the further area, barret player would be shot first because it takes short time to shot with barret (u need to hold mouse button for a while)
so yeah,
- the sniper was binked cuz he got shot before shooting with barret, yeah barret player should shots first against noob player, but not against a player on his level.
- sniper couldnt avoid bink in air (you cant jump in air)
- the sprayer could avoid barret player bullet... sniper has only 1 chance, and sprayers always do that gay trick (prone, then stand up, then again prone, in the air) or they could just avoid it by moving fast on the ground or moving tricky (u know what i mean)

So, even if bink was low, pro player could get sniper binked because the barret player could get 10 bullets before he shoots, as i explained before, so even if 1 bullet didnt add bink, there were another 9, depending on weapon.

----- You explain barret being weak that you implemented new aim weapon physics, but in effect barret its just weak as hell now and other weapons (except m79?) are wayy stronger, even if it got lowered by a little %.



Quote
Well Barrett isn't meant to be a solely defensive weapon in this game. In the right hands it's supposed to be great for offense too, which means you should get the jump on enemies as often as they get the jump on you. Fighting effectively with Barrett since 1.6.4 puts a lot more importance on shooting them before they can hit you, and making your first shot count - especially when the enemies use autos.

Yeah, i explained it before, Pro Sprayer shots Pro Sniper before sniper shots sprayer. Because it takes up to 2sec or somthin like this to shot with barret. Plus, he can easily miss if hes moving and his target is THAT FAR. Lets add that, the sprayer can do some tricks to avoid it.



Quote
Barrett did get worse in 1.6.4, but has since then gotten better both directly (less bink) and indirectly (most of the other weapons generally got weaker).

Really? Again saying that weapons overall damage got lowered and barret got stronger? Come on, Overall damage got lowered by a LITTLE %, not even noticeable (i know its noticeable, just wanted to use a strong word there). And same for barret, bink got lowered by unnoticeable amount.


Quote
It's not going to be "changed back" because the old behavior was completely glitchy, unintuitive and unfair. But if you or anyone else have any concrete suggestions then please state them; e.g. "Barrett needs less startup time because I often can't fire my shot before I get hit and binked," or "It takes too long to wait for the bink to reset, so I rarely get another chance to shoot," or "Make inaccuracy obtained through moveacc increase the cursor size like bink does, that way I can better predict my inaccuracy."

My only one suggestion is to lower the barret bink. Dont care about the other weapons being op, if barret becomes playable its enough. Ive said that overall damage is too big, but if bink wouldnt be that big, it wouldnt matter. (or it would, but barret would be way more usable than its now)


Your only one argument is that sprayers had no chance to kill barret player before... But thats not d4mn true. As i explained before:
-avoiding
-other reasons
-overall weapon increased damage
-watching map as far as sniper
-not possible to switch to second weapon after miss(no time)
-big amount of other reasons ive said here or in my 1st post
These and more are MY ARGUMENTS to make you think about lowering or even removing the barret bink by noticeable amount. Come on, ive thought about it more than you did.


Sorry for english and sorry if I offended somebody. This post was not only directed to 14th_account, it was directed to anybody who thinks barret bink should stay as it is.

Offline ginn

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Re: Normal mode, barret got gangbanged, any fixes planned?
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2013, 07:04:31 am »
You seem to be wanting to have barrett as a viable weapon like autos. Don't you realize how shit the game becomes then? If everyone plays barrett it becomes a 1 hit kill fest.
Barrett is just a weapon you use in special situations, or for fun in not too serious games (it's a disadvantage to have a player main barrett all the time).

You really just have to adapt, you can play barrett in certain situations, but it's not intended to be a viable weapon for every situation.

Offline Adam

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Re: Normal mode, barret got gangbanged, any fixes planned?
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2013, 03:03:38 pm »
Thanks for answers.

1. I wasnt talking only about 6v6 public ctfs... it happens on 2v2/3v3 too, maybe it seems for you like barret is better there than at public, cause there are less people (less chance to get binked, thats logic), but players at 3v3/2v2 are better, so its same sh*t.

2. I hoped more people will agree with me, i often see mad barret players in game because of all that stuff.

3. yeah you lowered overall weapon damage, but only by a small%, its still 2times higher than couple patches before, making almost unable to switch weapons to kill pro sprayer with second weapon after miss, but thats not the point, i dont care about that, cause the bink is main problem

4. okay, i just wanted to know if bink will be removed or lowered, these arguments were just to quote how barret works right now, i never thought u will do what i want, thats obvious, its your game. no need to flame

5. I am not camping, i am rushing (yeah, its rarely possible, but before if you had skill you could do it) or half-camping between 2 bases (e.g. nuubia) (by half-camping i mean moving nonstop and watching whole area waiting for your teammate to come and then bomb their base together)

6. I hate barret campers but i thought u want to eliminate them. these changes made barret way rather usable in camping (and 1v1 games, but nothing against that), so if u wanted to eliminate campers i dont think it was right thing to do.

7. Yeah, couple patches before (1.6.2 ? or smthing like this) (it lasted for maaany years, not like it was implemented, it was always like this) you could run fast with barret and even if sombody shot you, you just had to jump (while running fast) and shoot, it removed bink, that wasnt that BIG anyway...
@@@@@@@@@14th_account
--------- Playing barret wrong? For me camping always was wrong, and rushing fast while watching the further area in the direction where i run was the right thing to do. It was hard, because you needed to run FAST (to not get killed from down/up/right (if ur going left)). and you needed to watch if nothing blocks you from shootin. I played barret like this through 10 years. If i killed someone or i missed i used knife and nades, and this is how i could get double/triple kill pretty often (of course because of skill).

You may say this is how i could kill more experienced players but thats not true, experienced sprayers (and all weapons pro players, not barret only) always move fast and watch the further possible area on their monitors, so nope, barret wasnt overpowered.

--------- And its not butthurt thread only for 1.6.6, its rather butthurt thread for last patches.

--------- you said it wasnt possible to bink barret player before without killing him before, but yeah it was possible, bink was lower, of course, but if a player is on the same experience level as sniper, he watched THE FURTHEST POSSIBLE AREA in direction he was running. So, if there are 2 pro players (1 barret, 1 sprayer) and they all moved fast while watching the further area, barret player would be shot first because it takes short time to shot with barret (u need to hold mouse button for a while)
so yeah,
- the sniper was binked cuz he got shot before shooting with barret, yeah barret player should shots first against noob player, but not against a player on his level.
- sniper couldnt avoid bink in air (you cant jump in air)
- the sprayer could avoid barret player bullet... sniper has only 1 chance, and sprayers always do that gay trick (prone, then stand up, then again prone, in the air) or they could just avoid it by moving fast on the ground or moving tricky (u know what i mean)

So, even if bink was low, pro player could get sniper binked because the barret player could get 10 bullets before he shoots, as i explained before, so even if 1 bullet didnt add bink, there were another 9, depending on weapon.

----- You explain barret being weak that you implemented new aim weapon physics, but in effect barret its just weak as hell now and other weapons (except m79?) are wayy stronger, even if it got lowered by a little %.



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Well Barrett isn't meant to be a solely defensive weapon in this game. In the right hands it's supposed to be great for offense too, which means you should get the jump on enemies as often as they get the jump on you. Fighting effectively with Barrett since 1.6.4 puts a lot more importance on shooting them before they can hit you, and making your first shot count - especially when the enemies use autos.

Yeah, i explained it before, Pro Sprayer shots Pro Sniper before sniper shots sprayer. Because it takes up to 2sec or somthin like this to shot with barret. Plus, he can easily miss if hes moving and his target is THAT FAR. Lets add that, the sprayer can do some tricks to avoid it.



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Barrett did get worse in 1.6.4, but has since then gotten better both directly (less bink) and indirectly (most of the other weapons generally got weaker).

Really? Again saying that weapons overall damage got lowered and barret got stronger? Come on, Overall damage got lowered by a LITTLE %, not even noticeable (i know its noticeable, just wanted to use a strong word there). And same for barret, bink got lowered by unnoticeable amount.


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It's not going to be "changed back" because the old behavior was completely glitchy, unintuitive and unfair. But if you or anyone else have any concrete suggestions then please state them; e.g. "Barrett needs less startup time because I often can't fire my shot before I get hit and binked," or "It takes too long to wait for the bink to reset, so I rarely get another chance to shoot," or "Make inaccuracy obtained through moveacc increase the cursor size like bink does, that way I can better predict my inaccuracy."

My only one suggestion is to lower the barret bink. Dont care about the other weapons being op, if barret becomes playable its enough. Ive said that overall damage is too big, but if bink wouldnt be that big, it wouldnt matter. (or it would, but barret would be way more usable than its now)


Your only one argument is that sprayers had no chance to kill barret player before... But thats not d4mn true. As i explained before:
-avoiding
-other reasons
-overall weapon increased damage
-watching map as far as sniper
-not possible to switch to second weapon after miss(no time)
-big amount of other reasons ive said here or in my 1st post
These and more are MY ARGUMENTS to make you think about lowering or even removing the barret bink by noticeable amount. Come on, ive thought about it more than you did.


Sorry for english and sorry if I offended somebody. This post was not only directed to 14th_account, it was directed to anybody who thinks barret bink should stay as it is.
Stop whining, barret is way easier then it was in 1.5.1. I could use rett right now and get at least 80% of my shots in....
« Last Edit: November 01, 2013, 05:47:04 pm by Adam »

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Offline 14th_account

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Re: Normal mode, barret got gangbanged, any fixes planned?
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2013, 04:40:16 pm »
Your only one argument is that sprayers had no chance to kill barret player before... But thats not d4mn true.

I never made that argument. I said it was glitchy, unintuitive and unfair.

Unintuitive because one would think that shoting the Barrett user more would result in a greater chance of him missing, but that's not how the old system worked. The amount that the bullet could sway would increase, but there was always a 33% chance for the bullet to go exactly where aimed - making little difference between being hit by two or ten shots. Players would get outraged or call cheats on players that could take a handful of hits and still shoot perfectly straight.

Unfair because this made the opposing player have little influence on the outcome on any encounter. All he could do was to apply some bink on the Barrett user and hope the dice would roll in his favor.


My only one suggestion is to lower the barret bink. Dont care about the other weapons being op, if barret becomes playable its enough. Ive said that overall damage is too big, but if bink wouldnt be that big, it wouldnt matter. (or it would, but barret would be way more usable than its now)

Hmm... Well I'm not convinced that the bink needs lowering or any major altercations. I think doing something about the remaining unintuitiveness regarding moveacc would be a bigger priority, because currently players are getting punished by quirky inaccuracies for moving around and playing offensively.

Offline ginn

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Re: Normal mode, barret got gangbanged, any fixes planned?
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2013, 07:14:43 am »
The test shows that when falling down your shot will go more straight when you have 50% inherited velocity.
Technically that shouldn't be true, with 0% it should go exactly where you're aiming, no matter your velocity, like with knife. With 50% it should go off some and feel unintuitive. And with 100% it would be perfectly intuitive, and be the same every time you shoot no matter the velocity, like with nades.