So here we go again

[NamelessWolf]

I think devs should use this guide: ( http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=37000.0 ) on movements as a guide as to what movement in Soldat should be like.

[Bistoufly]

I think devs should use this guide: ( http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=37000.0 ) on movements as a guide as to what movement in Soldat should be like.

Don't worry. The devs have access to a much more comprehensive collection of movement gifs that I provided with the collaboration of Bullet.

[NamelessWolf]

Yes, that movement guide was just an example, but I think it's important that they consider the knowledge within the community of players and let it live. If I could speak to God after humans invented their own ways to make fire I'd advice him not to take wood away from the living world.

[Bistoufly]

Yes, that movement guide was just an example, but I think it's important that they consider the knowledge within the community of players and let it live. If I could speak to God after humans invented their own ways to make fire I'd advice him not to take wood away from the living world.

Wise words. Fortunately it is the philosophy and view of Shoozza. But it obviously isn't shared by everyone in the team. Let's hope the team can at some point make its auto-critique and recenter their goals. Improving net-code and rendering-code should be a nice place to start.

[CheeSeMan.]

I really think there is nothing wrong with the current movement system, I feel if anything it has become easier to move quicker throughout maps as now you don't need to master prone-cancels and other bug slides. I have not seen it causing any problems in the vanilla Soldat game modes and I really can not agree that official game-mode servers are "emptier" just because of v1.6.6(possibly the FPS problems but not movement changes.) ; the player base has been dwindling for some time now, just keeping some bugs here and there to keep a handful of players happy is not going to do the game any favours. Fixing bugs and making the game easier to setup and jump into will help attract some new players. It would be nice to have a DEV log soon but I think it is going in a great direction and we should keep giving support.

[NamelessWolf]

The working state of a game is not a bug. Bugs are things which cause problems and really needs to be fixed.

One example of something I really do consider a bug is the so called "alladin jump" where you first jump up in the air, then kneel down and just slide away, flying long stretches even at maps without jet pack. That one is new for this version and I suppose the name derives from flying carpets in the disney movie.

[homerofgods]

The working state of a game is not a bug. Bugs are things which cause problems and really needs to be fixed.

One example of something I really do consider a bug is the so called "alladin jump" where you first jump up in the air, then kneel down and just slide away, flying long stretches even at maps without jet pack. That one is new for this version and I suppose the name derives from flying carpets in the disney movie.

Demo it!

[Bistoufly]

The working state of a game is not a bug. Bugs are things which cause problems and really needs to be fixed.

One example of something I really do consider a bug is the so called "alladin jump" where you first jump up in the air, then kneel down and just slide away, flying long stretches even at maps without jet pack. That one is new for this version and I suppose the name derives from flying carpets in the disney movie.

Demo it!

No need for a demo. It has already been reported and fixed for the upcoming version. It's the old crouch-bug. It made its way back in 1.6.6. It's fairly easy to replicate and abuse. I won't describe how tho as I don't want more player to abuse it.

[CheeSeMan.]

Yeah this is the crouch bug and has existed in Soldat since the stone age.

I don't see how prone-cancels and insta-prones etc are a "working state of the game", maybe you do not see it as much when you are playing run/climb/HnS modes but when you had to shoot at players doing these movement techniques in the last versions you find that they seemed to get more eats/warps. It may be of course that on the players screen who were doing these buggy movements he was dodging the nades/bullets but because of the bad net-code nobody sees it like this, most times it looks like someone warping around eating nades. Some animations also just seemed to disappear which caused some people to just be accused of speedhacking, I don't think the server code was ever built to try and keep everyone in-sync for those sort of movements as they were not intended. Now that the movement animations seem to have become a lot smoother, these problems do not seem to happen as often, if it is the result of removing those movement bugs then I believe it is a good trade off.

[NamelessWolf]

Personally I think it used to work just fine. I never could do all the advanced movements, like nade-tapping to rise up faster etc, but just the easier things such as crouch spamming to evade bullets, late backflips, cannonballs etc made this game more sofisticated than any other 2d game I've ever played. Just pushing your crouch key at the right times (and jet) is actually enough to do some sliding and that can't be too hard to learn.

I used to love the flow of the game. Always doing various actions simultaneously or in a rapid pace, ready to change with just about every bullet coming towards me and on public games that was enough. Just running, doing a cannonball here and there and to be alert always was enough to keep up on the pubs and it doesn't hurt if you can take it to another level once you learn the basics.

The thing I personally thought most people seemed to lack on pubs was awareness of the bigger picture. Which route where they were needed the most, where the flaggers were etc. A suggestion to help with that is to make minimap come up automatically unless you deactivate it manually (as it's now the opposite and many might not know which button to push). Of course it only shows teammates, but that can often tell you much. That and to put some useful taunts in the taunts file on default.

[Bistoufly]

Some animations also just seemed to disappear which caused some people to just be accused of speedhacking, I don't think the server code was ever built to try and keep everyone in-sync for those sort of movements as they were not intended.

The animation that is missing the most often in Soldat multi-player is the backflip one. I'm not sure where you got the idea the backflip was "not intended" since it was implemented by Michal himself.

Now that the movement animations seem to have become a lot smoother, these problems do not seem to happen as often, ...

Not sure either where you got that idea that the animation missing problems "do not seem to happen as often". From my experience, it didn't change since I started playing this game (1.4.2) (minus one regression fix but that's anecdotal)

if it is the result of removing those movement bugs then I believe it is a good trade off.

What are you talking about? Which "movement bug" got removed?

I'm sorry but I think you'd be better off taking a bit of your free-time educating yourself about these subjects. Maybe learning some movement tricks, play in climb servers, make some tests, ...

That way you'll have a more educated opinion. + You might have a blast discovering some amazing stuffs about the possibility of the game. I know I did. 

[Dusty]

Cheese it's no use trying to bring up 3v3 ctf here. Soldat is all about movement and fixing some of the bugs might cause some people to become suicidal.

[CheeSeMan.]

Look Bistoufly I do not claim to know the ins and outs of the movement system or what was removed or fixed or not, sorry if some of my statements are wrong but they are how I feel about it and I believe a lot of the community reacts the same. Do not tell me you have never been votekicked off a public server because people thought you were speedhacking? I think the first time that Bullet guy joined a gather there was a 6 page topic in sctfl in the hack accusation section, sure if you knew what he was doing then it looked fine but if you didn't well it just looked damn strange and not normal at all.

I have dabbled in climb/run mode but never really had the patience to master the "hidden" techniques. And why should I have to? Soldat's movement system should not have hidden bug techniques, it should simply be laid out in front of us, accessible to all. Why should players have to go into climb/run servers to find out how to do a prone cancel? And to claim that they are not bugs is ridiculous, just think about the default Soldat controls they are not really set up to perform these movement techniques easily are they? I believe the DEVs are ironing out these sort of things to make Soldat easier to jump into from a new players perspective and that is why I support these decisions... but then again they have not really said anything themselves.

From my playing experience, v1.6.6 seems way smoother and with the new prone-roll it makes fast movement more accessible to every player which I think is positive. Anyhows really I don't want to get in a fight, this is my opinion on the matter that's all

[Bistoufly]

Fair enough. I'm happy you responded positively to my post. I understand your opinion. I just see things from another perspective.

I don't believe removing movement tricks can have a positive effect on newcomers. Since mastering them isn't a requirement for CTF, even at high level. You can easily compensate with other skills such as aiming accuracy, reaction time, positioning, game sense, ...
If anything can scare newcomers, it would be getting consistently killed by players who never miss a god damn shot.

Soldat is far more than a simple shooter, the endless movement possibilities add a whole extra dimension to the game. Many players cherish that and several successful and creative communities are based on it. (Who would have thought the climbing community would create over 3000 maps!)

On top of that, there are bridges between the movement based modes and traditional CTF. A player can create his own game-style by learning new skills from sub-game modes. This can spice things up! Think about some great rushers in competitive CTF like Stachu or Fexxy.

It's in the best interest of the community that the developers acknowledge and preserve this aspect of the game.

[NamelessWolf]

Fair enough. I'm happy you responded positively to my post. I understand your opinion. I just see things from another perspective.

I don't believe removing movement tricks can have a positive effect on newcomers. Since mastering them isn't a requirement for CTF, even at high level. You can easily compensate with other skills such as aiming accuracy, reaction time, positioning, game sense, ...
If anything can scare newcomers, it would be getting consistently killed by players who never miss a god damn shot.

Soldat is far more than a simple shooter, the endless movement possibilities add a whole extra dimension to the game. Many players cherish that and several successful and creative communities are based on it. (Who would have thought the climbing community would create over 3000 maps!)

On top of that, there are bridges between the movement based modes and traditional CTF. A player can create his own game-style by learning new skills from sub-game modes. This can spice things up! Think about some great rushers in competitive CTF like Stachu or Fexxy.

It's in the best interest of the community that the developers acknowledge and preserve this aspect of the game.

I agree completely with this.

By the way I noticed tonight that crouching is suddenly much slower than before. The animation looks better, but it affects the game in a very negative way. Bullet evading gets harder and you can't slide as long and as fast as you could before, just by using jet and crouch on normal polygons. While I agree that the animation should look natural, it should be faster and more efficient than it is now.