Ruger

[DarkCrusade]

What's the status on Ruger? What do people think about it? I noticed that it is a fairly overlooked weapon (which is exactly why I'm playing it; true hipster) both on public servers and on Soldatforums, but I am by no means an expert at gathers or the SCTFL scene of course, so let us hear the opinion on some of the people that appear to matter.

[15th_account]

It's been brought to my attention during the current SCTFL playoffs that it has barely seen use at all.

When I asked and read some of the players' thoughts they said it was too inaccurate. Though this boggles me as the Ruger has had the current amount of accuracy for a decade, and was at some points considered overpowered. Personally I like how it requires a cool-headed person that can let go of the movement keys and jets before firing.

For the upcoming 1.6.7 release I expect an indirect buff due to other weapons being nerfed, as well as a +1 dmg to make 2-hit kills a wee bit more common.

[DarkCrusade]

I play on public servers only, but maybe my opinion will help with the current situation. Ruger is often compared to the Desert Eagles, because both weapons are semi-automatic. The main difference though is that the rifle has but 4 rounds while the pistols have 7. And that's the main problem actually! Deagles kill in two headshots at mid range while Ruger does that at all ranges. But the pistols have a much higher cadence, lower reload time and more ammo while it is quite difficult to time shots right when both you and your opponent move into different directions.The curved line of the deagles is a great advantage in that matter, because it covers more area, thus is more likely to hit.

I do not believe that the rifle needs more ammunition. I believe it would already be in a far better place if the damage was increased a little and the reload time decreased a little. The numbers, I don't know. I am no expert after all and that is yours to ponder.

[zakath]

It's been brought to my attention during the current SCTFL playoffs that it has barely seen use at all.

When I asked and read some of the players' thoughts they said it was too inaccurate. Though this boggles me as the Ruger has had the current amount of accuracy for a decade, and was at some points considered overpowered. Personally I like how it requires a cool-headed person that can let go of the movement keys and jets before firing.

For the upcoming 1.6.7 release I expect an indirect buff due to other weapons being nerfed, as well as a +1 dmg to make 2-hit kills a wee bit more common.

It hasn't really been op ever imho its only a handful of ppl that has been able to pull off ruger ever, like huudi and magorko. Rugers main problem is that its only got high damage and isn't very useful for spraying, as it only has 4 bullets so you cant use it in a suppressing way. So therefor it isn't as useful in clanwars.

[15th_account]

Ehh, I recall it being overpowered in 1.4.1 and 1.4.2. Though I don't think it has ever been particularly overused due to its difficulty to learn. Though that should be a moot point when talking about SCTFL players, which are supposedly the best of the best of the best.

You didn't really propose any solution though, unless you're acquiescing to the idea that spraying should be the only viable strategy in Soldat.

[Bistoufly]

Ehh, I recall it being overpowered in 1.4.1 and 1.4.2. Though I don't think it has ever been particularly overused due to its difficulty to learn. Though that should be a moot point when talking about SCTFL players, which are supposedly the best of the best of the best.

You didn't really propose any solution though, unless you're acquiescing to the idea that spraying should be the only viable strategy in Soldat.

Reduce slightly the push power of automatic guns (against players. not flags) => problem solved.


Oh btw don't try to hard to make everything perfectly balanced, skoskav.

1) No one on earth can achieve that, even if he was helped by a team from the nasa and had access to super computers. And even the most skilled players who played for more than ten years are far from the level of understanding of the game required to accomplish such a feat.

2) Perfect balance isn't a pertinent goal in itself. Figuring out which weapon to use is part of the experience players expect in such a video game.


Hope this helps.

[zakath]

Ehh, I recall it being overpowered in 1.4.1 and 1.4.2. Though I don't think it has ever been particularly overused due to its difficulty to learn. Though that should be a moot point when talking about SCTFL players, which are supposedly the best of the best of the best.

You didn't really propose any solution though, unless you're acquiescing to the idea that spraying should be the only viable strategy in Soldat.

I am not saying that ruger should be boosted or something, I am just saying its not a viable choice for competitive ctf. imho its fine for dm and the like, a bit like barret is the choice for 1on1 but not that useful(at least universally) in competitive ctf.

[jrgp]

I've personally felt like it's the most powerful but hardest to use gun in the game. It's a two shot one kill weapon but sometimes can kill in one shot if you hit the head properly or if they're already half dead. Its quick-ish reload makes it better than the baret/barret/barett. Aiming it is a challenge and makes it hard to master. Once you master that you can kill more people in the same amount of time compared to the other weapons (excluding m79/grenades)

Isn't it really popular in realistic mode as there it's generally one shot one kill when used right?

[elMorvano]

I've personally felt like it's the most powerful but hardest to use gun in the game. It's a two shot one kill weapon but sometimes can kill in one shot if you hit the head properly or if they're already half dead. Its quick-ish reload makes it better than the baret/barret/barett. Aiming it is a challenge and makes it hard to master. Once you master that you can kill more people in the same amount of time compared to the other weapons (excluding m79/grenades)

Isn't it really popular in realistic mode as there it's generally one shot one kill when used right?

Deagle also can kill on 2 shoots and are so much easier to aim. Has more ammo and push flag

Deagle >>> Ruger

Ruger was a great weapon in 1.6.3 or 1.6.5? Don't remember but there you could aim so much easier than now. I swapped Ruger on Deagle :/

[BKT]

It's been brought to my attention during the current SCTFL playoffs that it has barely seen use at all.

When I asked and read some of the players' thoughts they said it was too inaccurate. Though this boggles me as the Ruger has had the current amount of accuracy for a decade, and was at some points considered overpowered. Personally I like how it requires a cool-headed person that can let go of the movement keys and jets before firing.

... Though I don't think it has ever been particularly overused due to its difficulty to learn. Though that should be a moot point when talking about SCTFL players, which are supposedly the best of the best of the best.

You didn't really propose any solution though, unless you're acquiescing to the idea that spraying should be the only viable strategy in Soldat.

The 'best of the best' are using the supposedly slower-killing autos (and unsurprisingly, Steyr is usually the weapon of choice) to spray because of practicality. ... How ironic. 

As long as you and/or whoever in charge of wm balance kept basing their changes on statistics and playing theory fighter* and do not understand how the game actually play in real life, spraying remains the dominant choice in Soldat, at least in the realm of 'the best of the best'.



** a term in fighting game community referred to a discussion about which character/move is better over the other, usually with overtly simplistic claims and rationals in their argument.

[15th_account]

The 'best of the best' are using the supposedly slower-killing autos (and unsurprisingly, Steyr is usually the weapon of choice) to spray because of practicality. ... How ironic. 

Indeed. Any potential advantage offered by the Ruger is outweighed by it's unreliability in achieving it. Getting 3-hit kills and misses are punished much more than when using e.g. Steyr. Autos have additional benefits such as knocking back enemies, boosting team mates and flags, and can take out low-health enemies with high reliability. Whether Ruger was more difficult or not would be irrelevant if there wasn't much lure in using it.

As long as you and/or whoever in charge of wm balance kept basing their changes on statistics and playing theory fighter* and do not understand how the game actually play in real life, spraying remains the dominant choice in Soldat, at least in the realm of 'the best of the best'.

Hmm, that's quite a bold statement. Don't be coy about your ideas though - enlighten us; how should we best subdue the viability of spraying?

[15th_account]

Reduce slightly the push power of automatic guns (against players. not flags) => problem solved.

It seems I had missed or forgotten to respond to your post. Pardon.

1) Sure, that would reduce one advantage of spraying, though I wouldn't claim for it to solve the problem of spraying in general.
2) That probably wouldn't seem very intuitive to have this different mechanic only be applied on certain weapons.

I would rather generalize your idea and just make bullet push affect flags a bit more than they currently do. Then the autos' push could be lowered through the weapons.ini.

Oh btw don't try to hard to make everything perfectly balanced, skoskav.

1) No one on earth can achieve that, even if he was helped by a team from the nasa and had access to super computers. And even the most skilled players who played for more than ten years are far from the level of understanding of the game required to accomplish such a feat.

2) Perfect balance isn't a pertinent goal in itself. Figuring out which weapon to use is part of the experience players expect in such a video game.

As I said regarding a similar topic recently on the SCTFL board:
Having perfectly equal distribution is an unattainable goal. But it doesn't have to be this lopsided, and knowing that shouldn't be used as a throw-away excuse for not trying.

[Adam]

The 'best of the best' are using the supposedly slower-killing autos (and unsurprisingly, Steyr is usually the weapon of choice) to spray because of practicality. ... How ironic. 

Indeed. Any potential advantage offered by the Ruger is outweighed by it's unreliability in achieving it.

false.

[15th_account]

That's not an argument. Stay in school.

[DarkCrusade]

Different weapons should serve different purposes. Why would I choose Ruger over an automatic gun for pushing flags? I pick the rifle to kill targets from a safe distance, potentially with one shot if they are already hurt. The problem is that it cannot reliably do that for me. I will soon switch over to Deagles and start spraying like every other random noob on public servers. The Ruger being the gun with the smallest capacity for ammunition, the shots that do hit must hit hard. At times, I need three hits to kill a target and that's bullocks if you ask me.

So instead of assimilating the 'spray guns', buff the rifle. More damage or more munition, the choice is yours.

[Akinaro]

I will soon switch over to Deagles and start spraying like every other random noob on public servers.

Good one!
Nice way to boost your ego. So if someone use Ruger, he is "Pro", and if someone kick your ass using Deagles he is noob... xD

[BKT]

As long as you and/or whoever in charge of wm balance kept basing their changes on statistics and playing theory fighter* and do not understand how the game actually play in real life, spraying remains the dominant choice in Soldat, at least in the realm of 'the best of the best'.

Hmm, that's quite a bold statement. Don't be coy about your ideas though - enlighten us; how should we best subdue the viability of spraying?

My statement is less about making people spray less and more about demonstrating my point that the 'best of the best' is still human, not some magical being that able to delivered a 100% headshot from every angle of engagement at full-screen range to a moving target like how some people make it out to be.

Keep in mind that despite all the whining about Ruger being OP, which was true at some point a long time ago, but still, as you said yourself, it never really have been overuse, even in a public DM, and spraying tactic was as old as Soldat itself and is nothing new (although what gun is the most popular choice does change over the years).


On a sidenote: trying to change how people behave by messing around with WM first is a bad start IMO.

[DarkCrusade]

@Akinaro: I meant that I'm playing Ruger on public servers. I put myself at a disadvantage by choosing it against the lot that plays one shot weapons or spray guns and thus switch over to the other semi-automatic gun, the Deagles. That's what I meant. No need to ad hominem me for not understanding what I state.

[Dusty]

Though this boggles me as the Ruger has had the current amount of accuracy for a decade

The accuracy, as far as I recall, was hugely nerfed. I don't remember exactly when it happened but hitting with it became much more random if you were flying.

e: wasn't so far in the past, I found my message about it.

[darDar]

As I've said in the sctfl.net post it's a bad idea to 'balance' the weapons with a feature which is not really related to the weapons settings. (Flag Boosting)
We have different weapons for different styles of playing the game. AK / Ruger is a weapon used for mid - far range combats and it wouldn't make a lot of sense to add a higher push amount to weapons like ruger / barret and expect ppl. to play them more, since people who are in the charge of taking the flag and boost it somewhere, wouldn't pick those weapons in the most cases anyway since they are not good for that situation.
Also, why should a single shot weapon have the 'same' boosting effect on an object like an auto weapon. That's against my physics knowledge..

I vote for either:

1. add another bullet to the ruger clip

or

2. Deal like 30% more damage in close combat situations


Ruger ist still a pretty good weapon by the way.
It just seems that people are just too lazy to learn it.