Author Topic: Textures Limits  (Read 2792 times)

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Offline Akinaro

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Textures Limits
« on: April 17, 2014, 04:16:53 am »
Texture for polygons have any limits? size? weight?

I ask, because for now my Ash remake is based on sceneries graphic, and I dont want to use standard multitextures, because map gonna lost all that details and overall look, so I was thinking about using textures just like on typical 3D model, where you have all detailed graphic i one file and you just adjust it to polygons.
Texture would have size of almost 900x500px size and(because of bmp file) weight of 1.2mb indexed is less than 400KB

I dont want to start working on it if its gonna be useless...


EDIT: something like that.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2014, 04:42:35 am by Akinaro »

Offline Adam

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Re: Textures Limits
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2014, 06:27:07 am »
I think ant'bazz tried to do the same thing, but polyworks didnt support it or whatever.

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Offline Akinaro

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Re: Textures Limits
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2014, 07:26:05 am »
heh... I get original Ash, and changed to my texture and after first test its look pretty good...
[with original polygons]

Without background scenery of wall its look bad tho xD xD





But I used smaller indexed texture... Now time to test 900x700... Hope it gonna work...
« Last Edit: April 17, 2014, 07:27:50 am by Akinaro »

Offline smiluu

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Re: Textures Limits
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2014, 04:30:38 pm »
Ash_texture_indexed.png in terms of it's structure looks a lot like a texture set I used in my map DM_Negligence. I never really understood how the texture selection tool worked or if it did work at all in the first place, so I deviced another technique which just simply requires more patience. I'm not sure if others use this technique or if it's common knowledge, I didn't watch any tutorials due to my anxiousness to get it over with it spontaneously. Looking at the current state of polygon trickery in maps today, I come to a doubtful conclusion.

Draw polygons that cover the entire texture pattern.
Use that as a "base" to draw polygons inside the multitexture variations.
Separate the polygon structures.
And do whatever role everything in the texture had.

Do note that using "Fix Texture/CTRL+F" to dragged out pieces will make them misaligned, and you will have to start over if they were rescaled/stretched from original size. The textures of the "base" if I remember correctly, gets misplaced every time you open the map file, so you have to draw it again at the beginning of every session. Planning your texture, I recommend leaving out small distinctive details (such as the door and bullet decals) and make them as separate sceneries. With patience and precise planning you can get very good quality with this technique, without depending on huge over-poly sceneries.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2014, 04:35:47 pm by smiluu »

Offline Akinaro

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Re: Textures Limits
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2014, 05:08:23 pm »
Well this topic is w bit outdated. Max texture that i used for testing was 2048x2048, didnt saw reason to test bigger ones.

Your idea looks good but i have way easier way for this, that can be used for any map without touching existing polygone or playing with new ones. Just make texture in selected % scale. Eg 40 select all polygons, resize it to 40% fit texture to every part of map. Resize it back to 100%. Of course its only for big part of maps and textures that are too big to use 100% if you have 100% texture you iuet need to fit texture to polygons.

Using this technique is way better than standard multitexture because you can use minimum of polygons and you can have way better details in map without using loots of polygons or sceneries.

Ps if you know about this trick why you dont make any new maps? Its take half of normal time to make it and still i see only discussion in map section about older maps that are not visible in any servers... I need to annoy you all a bit about that, maybe then you gonna stop talking and remembering old times and few maps from the past and make something new and fresh  :)
« Last Edit: April 22, 2014, 05:11:09 pm by Akinaro »

Offline smiluu

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Re: Textures Limits
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2014, 06:39:11 pm »
Your idea looks good but i have way easier way for this, that can be used for any map without touching existing polygone or playing with new ones. Just make texture in selected % scale. Eg 40 select all polygons, resize it to 40% fit texture to every part of map. Resize it back to 100%. Of course its only for big part of maps and textures that are too big to use 100% if you have 100% texture you iuet need to fit texture to polygons.
You mean making textures out of an entire map and it's details? It's not a bad idea especially when you can photoshop all other kinds of shit in it afterwards. However, the more details you put in the textures, the more mistakes you are likely to do on the progress and you won't have any room for improvisation. Unless of course you go back a few steps in the project ("I don't like that shade in the polygon, shit I can't change the polygon colour because it's in the texture", "oh, that corridor needs to go, jesus.. I don't have the textures to do that").

In the end, you would only be doing the same thing as you've been doing with sceneries so far, just with the texture this time. Skipping the hard work with methods inconvenient for editing, that increase file size and potentially disturb the performance. I don't actually even know what happens technically when you use large textures in maps and play them, whether Soldat crashes or gets a tremendous fps drop due to the texture's filesize or resolution. I didn't need to find out, because my technique works sufficiently with reasonably sized multifunctional multi-textures.

Ps if you know about this trick why you dont make any new maps? Its take half of normal time to make it and still i see only discussion in map section about older maps that are not visible in any servers... I need to annoy you all a bit about that, maybe then you gonna stop talking and remembering old times and few maps from the past and make something new and fresh  :)
It's always been an experiment of different gameplay scenarios and artistic practice for me. I've been mapping since at least 2003 and needless to say, tried it all.. or seen others try and not been genuinely intrigued. Soldat doesn't support features like teleporters, moving/rotating polygons, liquids or triggers. Soldat also lacks an arena shooter-like static and timed item/weapon/powerup pickups which cuts off a lot of map layout and balance experimentation. I'm happy to share tips and tricks, but I'd rather be spending my creativity on my own projects.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2014, 06:41:41 pm by smiluu »

Offline Akinaro

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Re: Textures Limits
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2014, 02:49:16 am »
Well its good for making remakes, when you dont want to move any polygons.
When I make new maps, I make everything from polygons and after I finish map I just save it as a texture and just fit it to polygons, and I can always modify every part of this texture, don't see the problem here.
Its way better that typical multitexture because without using loots of polygons I can get the same effect, and at the end, texture for all map would still take less space than 500-600KB I'm not saying that is awesome-super-duper style, its just good for remakes and for making detailed texture with using more than half of polygons :]


And sorry for that PS, it wasn't targeted directly to you, but to ALL old map makers :]
I just would like to some remakes made by other, because I see only discussion, no real work. I would really love to see amazing remakes made by others, not just discussion...
i every few h check forum and I see who is online and how much time they spend here... one-two weeks and you could spend this time on something awesome
« Last Edit: April 23, 2014, 02:55:32 am by Akinaro »

Offline smiluu

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Re: Textures Limits
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2014, 02:48:21 pm »
Looking at your Viet remake, it's an exaggeration to say that you got the same results. The texture details don't really stand out as much as they arguably did before you turned them into a single pixel compressed mega texture, it looks all very blurry and the scaling of some parts such as the mountains in the sides shows the result of unintended texture usage. It' a convenient way to retexture maps, but for actual remaking* I'd rather recommend traditional multitextures that can repeat better quality seamlessly. *There should also be a distinction to be made whether you're retexturing, remaking or remixing the maps. I don't think the copyright issues really matter here since this is a very carefree and ignorant community and we're fine with it, but it would serve as a formal indication for what the map actually is.

With my reply to your PS I'm probably talking for most of the creative mappers from the past like Viggolo, VirtualTT and Avarax. Same goes for modders and script people, they are either trying to make something on their own or just are too busy to stick around anymore.

Offline Akinaro

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Re: Textures Limits
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2014, 02:24:03 am »
I know that quality is worst that I had in first version of Viet, but no one care about that in actual game. And why you dont make remake of viet using normal multitexturing? just to compare it.
And also you could read what I write in viet topic... I dont like this map, I uploaded it only because "maybe" I would fix it in the future, because if I would leave it in my folder I would forget about it.

Beside i would use 100% textures that are sharp like my first version, but Soldat, even if its 2D game have loots of problems with performance, even if 1.6.7 is way better than 1.6.6 So I had to choose to use big graphic and nice sharp sceneries or make everything smaller so it would be faster and map would take less than 1.7MB

I can upload there original 100% map that I have, but it take almost 3MB.

Offline smiluu

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Re: Textures Limits
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2014, 10:59:57 am »
I know that quality is worst that I had in first version of Viet, but no one care about that in actual game.
And the point of retexturing a map with this mentality, is what exactly?
And why you dont make remake of viet using normal multitexturing? just to compare it.
It's more time consuming and I would rather spend that time on an original map. Either way, proving a logic-supported fact is not worth my time.

Beside i would use 100% textures that are sharp like my first version
I take back my approval, your method sounds just plain silly now.

Offline Akinaro

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Re: Textures Limits
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2014, 11:18:20 am »
Because I'm still looking for best size for texture, that why texture for viet remake have less details. For now I'm testing bigger size, almost 80% and with size of 980KB and 20 bots there is no lags(took some time to fit every part and indexing everyting).

And why this type of texture? Because it would be easier to make map: you would just made it in graphic program: photoshop/GIMP or even paint, and then you would need to just ad polygons.

It would be way easier to make map for people that have problems with polygons: draw map and then add polygons. Simple and faster than connecting polygons and stretching textures, and also you use less polygons.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2014, 11:20:29 am by Akinaro »