Author Topic: WtF happend to the Spas?! // Weap-Balance of older versions  (Read 4669 times)

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Offline Dr.Penicz

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WtF happend to the Spas?! // Weap-Balance of older versions
« on: August 31, 2014, 04:30:57 pm »
Hello guys,
I finally made my way to this forum! I started playing Soldat at ~v1.3.1 I think, then had a break. And now I play it again since 1.6.x...

To cut it short: What then Fuque happend to the Weapon-Balance??? If u say, now they are balanced, I wonder what was the case in earlier versions, and why few ppl complained back then..?!
I know there is the possibility to do some WM, but seriously no regular server does so. And having each server have its own weapon-balance is no good practice. How shall one compare with eachother then?? If it was like that, that would ultimatively mean, one would have a "Spas-Server", a "Deagles-Server", a "Sniper-Server" and so on, right?! Noone wants that I guess!
And I can hear the people say: "Oh ure just so good cos of the wm!" - "Cry more!" ...

I only really use the Spas, so I can't really tell about other weaps. It feels they changed alot!
Esp. compared to the Deagles, the Spas is relly underpowered!!!! I always compare them, because I think of the Deagles as a kind of Sniper-Spas. (Told Fryer earlyer.)
So what's the drawback of using Deagles in comparison to Spas?? Is there any?

Let me get it togehter as I see it:
Deagles:
-reload faster // If Spas is empty, you are dead.  Reloading one round (+-) takes as long as reloading deagles
-have higher fire-rate
-bullets fly faster
-bullets don't spread // I have never seen one dieing fron like 1 or 2 Spas-pellets.
-bullets are less affected by movement (??) ...because they fly faster...
-bullets are less affected by gravity // Esp. shooting upwards with the Spas makes it weak.
-need 3 hits to kill // Spas is eaten so badly, that one usually need 3+ hits to kill
  I remember when 2 hits usually were enough. One could fire 2 loads, and take care of something else. Now I always have to wait, and see if the opponent needs some more. That really sucks, cause it slows me down alot!!!
- + lots of things that don't come to my mind right now.

Just tell me if I'm wrong, but I think weapons that are harder to master should do more dmg!?! Deagles and Spas are comparable. That's why I focus on them. But I think Spas is still a little harder to control, isn't it (see above)?!



Soooooooooooo, enough talking! I'd like to have some facts!
I would like to see how the weapons changed over time.
Could you PLEASE give me some weapon-stats of older soldat-versions!?!?!?!?!?
Something that I could put insinde a graph and look at it, cause that's what I usually do when not playing Soldat!
Fryer told me that the weapon-balance now rather is dependend of the one devs mood (my words), than on facts. Maybe one could learn something from comparing the weapon-balances of the different versions..

Offline Blacksheepboy

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Re: WtF happend to the Spas?! // Weap-Balance of older versions
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2014, 12:17:03 am »
That is a wall of text, and I believe either the Soldat versions aren't out there (and/or people just don't know the stats off-hand).

Hope you like being back though.

Offline Dr.Penicz

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Re: WtF happend to the Spas?! // Weap-Balance of older versions
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2014, 12:44:38 am »
Here I am again...
I couldn't fine much either. So I hope some devs could provide some weapon-stat-files of older versions..!?
..Any dev reading this???

Or maybe the hard way. Is there someone having old versions around on some rusty harddrive? If so, maybe you could copy and paste the relevant parts in here?!..
I'd really like to do some analysis on that data!

Offline kicikici

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Re: WtF happend to the Spas?! // Weap-Balance of older versions
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2014, 12:59:02 am »
You can download each Soldat version from here
http://static.soldat.pl/downloads/
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Offline homerofgods

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Re: WtF happend to the Spas?! // Weap-Balance of older versions
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2014, 03:13:07 am »
We have fixed many bugs on the spas gun, but the main reason why spas and the other guns feels different is I think the addition of inherited velocity. Basicly you get 50% of the speed of wich you are moving forward added as dmg, when we did this change it seamed like all guns killed faster (too fast some may argue).

You can find the releast topic of each version in the news section: http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?board=2.0 and look at the changelog of each version if you want to see what has happend.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 03:15:45 am by homerofgods »

Offline 15th_account

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Re: WtF happend to the Spas?! // Weap-Balance of older versions
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2014, 01:19:08 pm »
homerofgods: The inherited velocity change was made back in version 1.2.0 though.


Dr.Penicz: The Spas has been relatively untouched stat-wise since 1.3.1. These are the archived WMs: http://skoskav.org/etc/soldat/wm/

The other changes since then to Spas are bug fixes, net code tweaks and general gameplay speed-ups (which benefit close-combat weapons more than long-range weapons). Then there's factors like smaller maps being more popular nowadays, which also benefit close-combat weapons.

Offline Dr.Penicz

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Re: WtF happend to the Spas?! // Weap-Balance of older versions
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2014, 06:12:44 pm »
Hey,
THANKS! That link is just what i needed! I already saw myself installing and uninstalling every version just to get those inis..
Incidentally I just had a talk to someone from the map-team on a soldat-server. And he told me that beside the changes in the inis, also all those bugfixes might have lots of influence on the weapons... That makes it harder to compare, but anyways Im opitimistic..
It is said that the total dmg is "velocity*hitmask*weap.dmg". Does anyone now what velocity?! I hope its "velocity_players + velocity_bullet" as one would expect..
And does someone now how exactly the bullets slow down over time?!

Offline CheeSeMan.

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Re: WtF happend to the Spas?! // Weap-Balance of older versions
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2014, 07:14:17 am »
I think the problem with the spas currently is something due to lag/rendering with client+server side, for example you see a full hit on your side but for the enemy maybe only some of the spas pellets hit him. This is very easy to see in realistic mode where full on hits should pretty much kill them in one shot but for some reason it deals minimal or no damage.
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Offline Dr.Penicz

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Re: WtF happend to the Spas?! // Weap-Balance of older versions
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2014, 10:10:14 am »
Quote
I think the problem with the spas currently is something due to lag/rendering with client+server side
That's definitly the case. Fryer and me have done some test once.. One shoots, otherone moves, both sides count hits/misses and compare afterwards.
Oh yeah realistic mode: I've noticed that the sniper nearly never gets eaten, while spas is eaten alot.

But I think that's not the only cause for eats.
One can see it best with explosives: The eater sometimes gets hit and is pushed back by that, but simply does not lose hp...