Author Topic: Movement which works consistantly  (Read 1511 times)

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Offline Name

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Movement which works consistantly
« on: February 05, 2016, 11:11:48 am »
Old soldat versions had a system for movement which was extremely sensitive in regards to the outcome of what millisecond you pushed certein buttons. As an example backflips had different trajectories and you could use it either to brake, speed up, change direction mid-air and everything was very, very arbitrary. Also you could cancel many movements halfway simply by repeatedly pushing crouch. Controling movement to perfection was such a fine art that even after years of playing there would be considerable skill differences between players.

It seems to me that the hidden intention behind many Soldat updates was to remove some of the hundreds of variations which there was to one kind of movement, cause the more updates we had the more did the game refuse to obey the precise buttons you pushed and at what precise timing. Sometimes I had the feeling that someone was watching me play and just guessing what my next move would be, forcing my player to go that way regardless of what I did. Especially annoying in combat situations, where you generally want the opposing players to think you're going in one way, then switching something to evade bullets or grenades coming at you.

What I suggest is restoring Soldat so that every movement once functional will be functional once again. It should work consistantly and NEVER fail due to some idiot thinking that a certein move is overpowerd or funny looking.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2016, 11:18:11 am by Name »

Offline Bistoufly

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Re: Movement which works consistantly
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2016, 11:29:32 am »
I'm pretty knowledgeable about soldat moves and I have frankly no idea what you are talking about.

Offline Viral

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Re: Movement which works consistantly
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2016, 12:54:17 pm »
I can safely say climb is my main mode now and I'm up to date with all possible movements in soldat also due to the fact I'm and active climb mapper and if there is antyhing I can say about the 1.7 movement compared to the previous versions it would be:
- semi-cbs are easier to perform
- W jumps can reach different hights depending on the hold duration
- the jumping-off the platforms has changed becasue of the A/D priority changes

Except form the last point i would say that the movement is more various and "key-perfect" than it was before. If anything - you are complaining about the changed key priority, but then I'd say you just didn't get used to it yet.

Offline duz

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Re: Movement which works consistantly
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2016, 01:02:13 pm »
Are you talking about the movement keys responsiveness affecting the tricks?
I know that there's something different that affects the friction (and I don't like it), specially when you're running on a ramp, but I don't know what it is. Maybe the A/D thing mentioned by Viral?
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Offline Viral

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Re: Movement which works consistantly
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2016, 01:10:54 pm »
It's exactly the think i mentioned. There was a topic or two where me and my fellow brothers were fighting against that change, where we were proving the change causing this behavior on the ramps. But we had to surrender under the pressure of "we won't change it back, even tho noone complained about it in the first place" argument, then they stabbed us with "get used to it". Some of us addapted, some hid in the shadows. I still shed a tear from time to time tho :'C

Offline Bistoufly

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Re: Movement which works consistantly
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2016, 01:17:06 pm »
I took me some time to adapt to the new left/right priority.


But I'm happy with current behavior as it allows to do complex jumps both ways easily. Before it was only possible in one way. No tear shed here.


btw to clear any confusion, all the changes mentioned by viral happened before 1.7 (1.6.8/1.6.9)

Offline Akinaro

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Re: Movement which works consistantly
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2016, 01:35:25 pm »
I'm pretty knowledgeable about soldat moves and I have frankly no idea what you are talking about.
As a really average climber that actually dont like climb(and still for past few weeks spend there 90% of playing time) I can say that I also have no idea what you are talking about. Movement is really awesome and most of time its matter of polygon bug or small lag(easy to recognize).



Actually I think Soldat beside action game should be advertised as a one of best arcade game, because of climb and how its work. It should be default game style instead of rambomatch, that even with recent one zabijaka server is just... meh.. for almost all of players.

Movement maybe its not perfect, but because of climb community Soldat get more life for all those years, and I could ensure you that Soldat would be WAYYYYY more dead without it than its now. For most of time beside AUS7 and zabijaka servers you can find players only on climb.
Climb still have soldat vibe in it, but it doeasnt need other players to play so its still fun to play it

Offline Moroes

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Re: Movement which works consistantly
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2016, 01:39:31 pm »
^+1, good point Akinaro

Yea, jumping off slopes feels different but nothing got really broken and movement is still complex and variable. Tbh it's pretty hard to do miniflips now because of the priority/timing change.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2016, 01:41:27 pm by Moroes »

Offline darDar

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Re: Movement which works consistantly
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2016, 01:49:57 pm »
Quote
- W jumps can reach different hights depending on the hold duration
- the jumping-off the platforms has changed becasue of the A/D priority changes
these are changes from 1.6.7/8, I believe.
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Offline Name

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Re: Movement which works consistantly
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2016, 01:56:25 pm »
Are you talking about the movement keys responsiveness affecting the tricks?
I know that there's something different that affects the friction (and I don't like it), specially when you're running on a ramp, but I don't know what it is. Maybe the A/D thing mentioned by Viral?
Responsiveness is indeed what I'm talking about. I can hardly think of any game which was as responsive as Soldat in the old days and it basically blew everything else away. I could have played major FPS titles but with Soldat I just knew that if I could just get past those first millions of deaths I would get to reap what I'd sown. The learning period was about 8 years. Then I thought ready to dominate for centuries within my chosen area and I will not forgive being robbed of it.

Offline Viral

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Re: Movement which works consistantly
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2016, 02:05:38 pm »
Quote
- W jumps can reach different hights depending on the hold duration
- the jumping-off the platforms has changed becasue of the A/D priority changes
these are changes from 1.6.7/8, I believe.

Name was refering to his overall soldat career and so did I. AFAIK there weren't any noticable changes in the movement in the recent version

Offline Name

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Re: Movement which works consistantly
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2016, 02:24:50 pm »
Accepting the contemporary is EXTREME.

Offline Wes

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Re: Movement which works consistantly
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2016, 05:57:01 pm »
Regardless of the past controls,

I love what Name is talking about. We need options to stop movement, or change direction. Pressing crouch in air to stop yourself sounds awesome. Another one would be "fast fall", like in any smash game in which pressing down makes you fall a bit faster.

It would be cool too, if jetting during prone gave you a little extra boost at the start of your movement. Things like that are fun to think about for sure.

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Offline Name

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Re: Movement which works consistantly
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2016, 06:54:32 am »
Regardless of the past controls,

I love what Name is talking about. We need options to stop movement, or change direction. Pressing crouch in air to stop yourself sounds awesome. Another one would be "fast fall", like in any smash game in which pressing down makes you fall a bit faster.

It would be cool too, if jetting during prone gave you a little extra boost at the start of your movement. Things like that are fun to think about for sure.

-Wes (dustydisk)
Just to make things clear, I don't think you should be able to disregard your current momentum. Rather you should have all the possibilities of using your momentum in various ways which were once possible. As an example there are ways to poly bounce and build up thrust so that you quickly after that can change direction and use the thrust to jump very high without the need for jet pack. Even such advanced moves, built on very complex colliding forces, used to have a consistant way of functioning which a player could learn to use to his or her advantage. Since years however more and more such moves have been messed up and wether you make it or not often does no longer depend on knowledge of the game and actual skill.

As an easy example of something you used to be able to cancel much more instantly I would name a simple backflip. That can be used to stop moving forward and instead turn a bit upwards. However you will be spinning and while spinning all hits you would take would count as headshots, thus taking more damage. The start of the backflip could well be made with short enough notice to avoid one bullet or even more which was coming at you. Especially if you had high speed, which you could turn upwards. You used to be able to keep more of that momentum with your turns.
Then you could press crouch to cancel the spinning instantly, likely to avoid another bullet or turn a headshot into a body hit. After that you could press crouch again to rise up in the air if the next bullet coming at you would go low or do "superman" to thrust yourself forwards and downwards if the next bullet coming at you would be directed towards you're head as you had an upright position. These small movement adjustments used to be much quicker than they have become through later versions and bullet deviation also worked in a way which was easier to calculate, so that you could fire with a certein accuracy while doing these little tricks.

Basically I think devs tried to remove all the little things which defined Soldat as a game, streamlining things and as a result playability was destroyed.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 07:02:59 am by Name »

Offline Mojonized

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Re: Movement which works consistantly
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2016, 09:01:11 am »
...
Rather you should have all the possibilities of using your momentum in various ways which were once possible
...
Basically I think devs tried to remove all the little things which defined Soldat as a game, streamlining things and as a result playability was destroyed.

Name, can you please record some of these (nowadays impossible) movement tricks in older Soldat versions? Frankly I have no idea what are you talking about and as I highly respect your CTF + TW skills, I would like to know what am I missing. Thanks

Offline soldat-game

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Re: Movement which works consistantly
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2016, 02:36:37 pm »
The fact that once movement was much different it was hard to get into many buildings in maps tw. Now is extremalnie easily download versions 1.5.0 and see...
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https://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=45068.0), about deleting this message in this topic.
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"So nothing was done hahahahahaha" Rekt admins remove this all time why? It does not break the rules.

Offline Name

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Re: Movement which works consistantly
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2016, 01:29:43 pm »
If you seriously can make things work like they used to please give me a link and the ability.. cause I know I was on the right path until about five years ago and everything was just flushed away with nothing coming in its' place.

Offline machina

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Re: Movement which works consistantly
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2016, 02:29:10 pm »
I played latest version of Soldat only a little bit but I didn't notice anything annoying with movement at all. Everything feels all same good as since 1.3.0.

Offline Wes

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Re: Movement which works consistantly
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2016, 12:06:42 am »
What you describe sounds pretty cool Name, wow. I'd love to see that, or at least see soldat with more options for mind games.