Author Topic: Script Core Suggestions Flame war  (Read 2361 times)

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Offline soldat-game

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Script Core Suggestions Flame war
« on: February 15, 2016, 12:06:09 pm »
Then stop talking nonsense it all is hard to to make, everything is hard hard as you think so then give open source or leave the dev and check the possibility of another good programmer chances. Falcon nothing to you, but I do not annoy me is that every mistake I submit that there is a longer time than I hear it is very difficult to repair do not know how it works. akinaro as usual commented correctly

Offline Falcon`

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Re: Script Core Suggestions Flame war
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2016, 12:22:11 pm »
Finally got myself split topic permissions.

As for your comment: dear dominikk, you're completely free to join the devteam yourself and fix and add all the stuff you desire. If you can't or have no time or simply don't want to, then don't blame me for not adding your features. Maybe I can't, maybe I don't want to, maybe it is difficult for me because hell, maybe I am just a stupid programmer who knows shit about what's he doing. I never said I'm not.
The point is, if you want ME to add something and I say "No", then learn by now, discussion is over. A no is a no, how hard concept is that.
As for you Akinaro, I've said I don't want trash there and I meant it. Don't do that ever again.
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Offline Akinaro

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Re: Script Core Suggestions Flame war
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2016, 01:15:27 pm »
Or what you gonna cry because not only I dont understand why you act like kid with hammer?


My point is, that you have serious problems if you think that players cant manage 3 additional keys in menu that would have looots of use, and it would be used in future mods, IF you manage to make new menu system for Soldat in next 200 years.

Beside Its really so hard to eg, set keys 1-0 or numpad keys as a shortcut/function key that could be used by mods and scripts if you cant handle adding 3 buttons?

People actually laugh when they hear that you cant make simple auto-update for game or even set more frames for one animation. You can say: "eeee, join dev team to fix it if you are so smart"
No for fuck sake, dont throw that to players because YOU accepted to help and your name is on it.
Soldat is not only game made for free in free time, so dont even mention that, because half of indie/mobile games are made by one or two people from scratch and they manage in some way make auto update or put function keys that can be used in game.

And no Im not ""to serious about that"", because:
 A) for most of time when I write something here Im in bathroom taking a dump(free time for junk internet stuff)
and
B) Long time ago I realize that Soldat never gonna be something bigger or be again more popular, because people behind it dont threat it as a pass for future game work development in other projects, and they just dont want put work that they doing here in their Portfolio/CV if anyone of you have such thing. So Im here just for good fun.

Offline soldat-game

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Re: Script Core Suggestions Flame war
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2016, 01:34:41 pm »
falcon why, my challenge? I told you that nothing I do not have to you. Many of you helped me, but it upset me, the fact that I keep hearing is not on the things that are very easy to do from the old 1.7 beta asked to rewrite the soldat server, This would give a better tick and operation in the scripts to it with simple actions. You could finally fix many errors with netcode. I start adding useful functions that would be easy to add because you soldatserver core would be written by you. Not join you because as many people rightly says shit know.

Offline Falcon`

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Re: Script Core Suggestions Flame war
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2016, 01:37:19 pm »
Yes, I did accept to help, but that doesn't mean I accept to implement every feature you come up with, including menu buttons.
As for why do I find them hard to do: I've never coded GUI elements in pascal in my life, I know for a fact that soldat GUI code is a huge mess, it's during major refactor as we speak and i'm pretty sure no other dev will help me if i even consider doing that. That'd be most of contributing factors I think.
As for the difficulty of your example task of binding numpad keys: The code needed to handle it would be, roughly
  • Client interception code (easy, i think)
  • Internal variable storage and management (most likely shared)
  • Network packets + network transmission code (and netcode is a huge mess aka hard to work with it)
  • Server dispatch code
  • ScriptCore3 bindings
You see, even things you consider simple features are, in reality, often much harder than even we, developers, estimate. You reference other free indie games as example. Well, I don't know how to answer that. I have no idea if these people have either unlimited time or unlimited knowledge to code these things. One of two, I suppose. We don't. And we work with legacy mess. For one thing we try to fix, three other break. I thought you got used to that after all this time.
I also don't know what you have against my argument of "go help yourself if you want it so badly". We volunteered to help yes, but as I said, not with everything and we also have limited amount of time, and different focus and priorities than you seem to want us to have.
You're good with graphics, I actually did like your "girl gfx", even if she kinda looks like a bitch. But you clearly have no idea about programming. So does, unfortunately, dominikk. So please don't judge us here, you have no idea what're you talking about.

As for you dominikk, I think i have only two things to say: learn english finally and/or shut up finally. You also clearly have no idea what're you talking about. As if fixing netcode were done with a swing of a wand.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2016, 01:39:00 pm by FalconPL »
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Offline Monsteri

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Re: Script Core Suggestions Flame war
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2016, 02:28:15 pm »
Soldat is not only game made for free in free time, so dont even mention that, because half of indie/mobile games are made by one or two people from scratch and they manage in some way make auto update or put function keys that can be used in game.
Half of indie/mobile games are also made in extremely easy to use pre-existing engines with a lot of documentation and online support. Soldat, on the other hand, is built on an archaic language and its code was made by a college teenager who was just doing it for fun, i.e., it's pure spaghetti. I haven't looked at it and I can't even code, but I trust the devs when they say it's bad. Your childish comparisons are idiotic and benefit absolutely no one. If you want to argue for focus on major fixes like the netcode and GUI and future prospects, at least push for a new game with a new engine. Don't accuse the developers of incompetence, especially when they work with very little documentation and only out of goodwill.
Sorry if I'm insolent.

Offline Akinaro

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Re: Script Core Suggestions Flame war
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2016, 02:30:10 pm »
I dont need to know programing, I spend some time with people that make games or mods, and I know that Soldat have messy code.
But guess what? How many years Soldat had to fix it or at least prepare most simple things that are needed in game?

And you think that Im only one who talk about it? No, its a matter of go back few topic and go listen to players, and you gonna see that those are most simplest ideas that should be in game long time ago.

Because you want to tell me that Auto-update would not be handy? That for all those years you could not make it? Even external exe program that would just check and update game?

You want to tell me that for all those additional function keys would not be handy? even as a Tounts i numpad?

Or even just making animation with more frames so it would look nicer? For all those years it was not possible?

@Monsteri Half of them yes other half is in the same situation as Soldat or even worst... no point here.

Offline Monsteri

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Re: Script Core Suggestions Flame war
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2016, 02:38:03 pm »
I dont need to know programing, I spend some time with people that make games or mods, and I know that Soldat have messy code.
But guess what? How many years Soldat had to fix it or at least prepare most simple things that are needed in game?

And you think that Im only one who talk about it? No, its a matter of go back few topic and go listen to players, and you gonna see that those are most simplest ideas that should be in game long time ago.

Because you want to tell me that Auto-update would not be handy? That for all those years you could not make it? Even external exe program that would just check and update game?

You want to tell me that for all those additional function keys would not be handy? even as a Tounts i numpad?

Or even just making animation with more frames so it would look nicer? For all those years it was not possible?

@Monsteri Half of them yes other half is in the same situation as Soldat or even worst... no point here.
Those are all nice fixes and additions but nothing gamechanging. Don't shout from the rooftops for a big focus on big and shiny new things, then downgrade to minute fixes when called out on it. I'd also like you to show me a game that was an absolute mess but hobbyist developers working for free somehow brought it back to life and to modern standards. Go.
Sorry if I'm insolent.

Offline Falcon`

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Re: Script Core Suggestions Flame war
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2016, 02:54:53 pm »
Dude seriously, your attitude is not contributing to the solution. Comparing us to others is not gonna change anything, neither does pointing out that there are many great "features" that should be added "years ago", preferably by mm himself because screw it, why not. We're busy with making current soldat work semi-normally, so any new features will have to wait until we're done or we actually feel like doing it despite the current mess. Yes, we're cleaning that mess for years now, and yes, we're still not done, even if you might think it should be possible to write the game from scratch in that time. But guess what, n+1 soldat clones out there, somehow none made it.
Our attitude towards new features are not likely to change by your whines, neither does our pace of work. If you want to speed thing up, find someone to help us, preferably as smart as your people that make games or modes.
If you're not paying for something, you're not the customer; you're the product being sold.
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Offline soldat-game

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Re: Script Core Suggestions Flame war
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2016, 03:05:54 pm »
Dynamic light soldat be beautiful It was once a discussion that are on the internet simple engines of which quite easily could implement to soldat.
go back to the days of 1.5.0 a single person to modify soldat beyond recognition adding gigantic amounts of new things, worldtext (I had to convince 4 people and it was only under the pressure you decided to add)
radio, globalchat, interfacetext, playsound (unfortunately unfinished).
plese add the ability to download music next create module playback music then add this module to scriptcore and map editor.
falcon and do not think that I am enemy to you..

I do not want to falcon upset know that you strive but you and the team are just lazy. Maybe better to look for developers such as CD projects? try to write to them try try try

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: Script Core Suggestions Flame war
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2016, 03:12:53 pm »
go back to the days of 1.5.0 a single person to modify soldat beyond recognition adding gigantic amounts of new things
You mean days when it literally took over a year for an update to come out bringing barely anything new? :D

Maybe better to look for developers such as CD projects? try to write to them try try try
Oh, you mean those guys who actually get paid? What is it with these forums getting overrun by know-it-alls lately?
« Last Edit: February 15, 2016, 03:15:15 pm by L[0ne]R »


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Offline Akinaro

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Re: Script Core Suggestions Flame war
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2016, 08:15:28 am »
its not about know-it-all, but about people who "dont-get-it". Show me one thing that is not true here.
Its not my fault that its just look like you sit here like in cave, and you actually never had balls to push soldat to something bigger. MM dont give a flying fuck about Soldat, and you are here just because you always were here and now you can act like you doing something, good for you. Now after you posted something that have nothing to do about topic you can go back.


But beside that. Those are only small examples that I posted, that for you maybe are not that important but its a matter of just moving ass and listen and see what people need to stick to game.

But if you telling me that you could not make simple autoupdate external app that would not only be easier for users to update game(instead of looking for it on site, and asking people "there was update?") but also it would be easier for you devs, because you could update not whole game again and again, but just upload changed files, like graphic, maps, etc.
You want to tell me that im wrong and it would not be handy?
And its only one of many examples that would be good for you and for players, and compared to other things those are really small stuff that would be handy for scripts, players and moders.


We can drag that topic over and over, but I really got bored by it, You know better, I know better, he know better, MM dont give a shit, players dont give a shit, and someone created ZRPG server that is fucked up, because zombies have bows and guns, and you respawn in the same place over and over... And Im fucking sad because I was hoping for good old fun on zrpg :/

Offline daaw

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Re: Script Core Suggestions Flame war
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2016, 09:50:32 am »
, find someone to help us,

wondering.. did people ever tried to attract other external devs..programmers...

 like for example posting on http://www.gamedev.net/classifieds

..for all these huge things for Soldat to become something much more it will need more programming force....



Offline Akinaro

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Re: Script Core Suggestions Flame war
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2016, 10:20:18 am »
, find someone to help us,

wondering.. did people ever tried to attract other external devs..programmers...

 like for example posting on http://www.gamedev.net/classifieds
..for all these huge things for Soldat to become something much more it will need more programming force....


This is what Im talking about, none of them take working on soldat as a "work" that would give them access to other projects, something to show in CV/protfolio.
And gamedev is only one of many sites like that, and you can get help or some fresh ideas for fixes for free from people that also start their life with such work.

Or you can even sell not used graphic that you made working on soldat on some freelancer sites, because someone else could use it, especially in mobile gaming that is really strong right now. Monthly its less than 20-60 euro if you have luck with small graphic, but as a additional income its perfect, and you getting experience with work for other game developers, and you have comparison about soldat and other projects.

Offline urraka

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Re: Script Core Suggestions Flame war
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2016, 11:58:42 am »
wondering.. did people ever tried to attract other external devs..programmers...

 like for example posting on http://www.gamedev.net/classifieds

..for all these huge things for Soldat to become something much more it will need more programming force....

How would you even advertise that without it sounding like a joke? "Looking for programmers to work on this proprietary game. We're not paying and we're not sharing revenue."

Unlikely that anyone outside the soldat fan base would be willing to help.

This is what Im talking about, none of them take working on soldat as a "work" that would give them access to other projects, something to show in CV/protfolio.

You expect people doing free contribution to work as if it was a real job and that's just funny. Adding something to a CV isn't enough of a good reason to become a slave.
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Offline daaw

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Re: Script Core Suggestions Flame war
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2016, 12:41:40 pm »
...
How would you even advertise that without it sounding like a joke? "Looking for programmers to work on this proprietary game. We're not paying and we're not sharing revenue."

Unlikely that anyone outside the soldat fan base would be willing to help.
...

well duh..guess thats explains it...the odd soldat situation..

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: Script Core Suggestions Flame war
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2016, 01:10:59 pm »
You expect people doing free contribution to work as if it was a real job and that's just funny. Adding something to a CV isn't enough of a good reason to become a slave.

Seconded.

Not gonna lie, it does look good in a portfolio/resume and I actually feature a few examples in mine. Nonetheless, the reason I personally am doing this is simply because I love the game and want it to become better (or at least not die). Portfolio thing is just a bonus. If I didn't care much about Soldat - I would just look for contract work instead, because I can put it in my resume/portfolio AND get paid.

Yes, working on Soldat is rewarding one way or the other. But in the end it's the tasks that pay the bills or otherwise get you somewhere in life are the top priority. Most of those working on Soldat are in the same boat.

How would you even advertise that without it sounding like a joke? "Looking for programmers to work on this proprietary game. We're not paying and we're not sharing revenue."
Unlikely that anyone outside the soldat fan base would be willing to help.

I looked at some postings on gamedev.net/classifieds, and it looks like there's quite a few "I want to make a game but can't pay you" or "I'll share profits when the game is out". There's a slim chance Soldat will at least get some exposure since, unlike those other postings, it's actually a (technically) finished product with a great reputation behind it. Work experience and CV material may be good enough reward for some people who lack either or both.

Question is whether anyone wants to bother creating a posting there and managing applicantions. This would probably have to be Shoozza's job and he's already got enough on his plate. We're super lucky he's still sticking around as it is.

So IMO it's not worth it.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 01:56:55 pm by L[0ne]R »


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Offline urraka

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Re: Script Core Suggestions Flame war
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2016, 02:11:22 pm »
Not gonna lie, it does look good in a portfolio/resume and I actually feature a few examples in mine. Nonetheless, the reason I personally am doing this is simply because I love the game and want it to become better (or at least not die), both for myself and for others. The more players there are - the more modes and servers I can enjoy - personal benefit. Portfolio thing is just a bonus. If I didn't care much about Soldat - I would just look for contract work instead, because I can put it in my resume/portfolio AND get paid.

I would probably add what I did for soldat to a portfolio myself too. But like you say, it's just a bonus. If we help soldat it's because we like this game. The benefit we get is the changes we make and some appreciation from community, I guess (although that's usually quickly overshadowed by negative comments).

I looked at some postings on gamedev.net/classifieds, and it looks like there's quite a few "I want to make a game but can't pay you" or "I'll share profits when the game is out". Not saying they're getting much attention of course, but there's a slim chance Soldat will at least get some exposure considering it's actually a (kind of) finished product with a great reputation behind it. Work experience and CV material may be good enough experience for some people who lack either or both.

From time to time I see this kind of thing in some gamedev irc channels. I mean, people looking for programmer/artist help and offering revenue share. The reaction is usually that people laugh at them (because what are the chances that X random project makes any money). Of course Soldat is much more interesting than a random project that isn't even started and nobody knows about. But hey, there's not even any kind of revenue share being offered. It's not even open source. I think most people would just laugh twice as hard. Maybe these irc communities aren't the best example to judge. But really, it just doesn't sound like a good deal at all.
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Offline homerofgods

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Re: Script Core Suggestions Flame war
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2016, 02:30:22 pm »
I just want to back one thing up. We need more devs because the current ones don't have enough time to fulfill what I dream soldat will become. The hope that soldat will become something great is the very reason I stick around. I understand it's not easy, but I don't think we have tried hard enough to get more devs.

Offline soldat-game

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Re: Script Core Suggestions Flame war
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2016, 02:34:59 pm »
As an example here exhunter adds things that are simply convenient for the server, This is a funny ..