Author Topic: Removal of excess DM/+ maps.  (Read 11859 times)

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Offline Dusty

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Re: Removal of excess DM/+ maps.
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2016, 11:43:49 am »
out of the 14 maps you named to be removed i loved 9 and here is the problem; different strokes for different folks. who are you or anyone to say which maps should stay and which should go?

besides arena2 and other cramped as hell maps i really can't name any that feel "too similar" - every map you named has plenty of differences in both the layouts and strategies.

also not to mention a TON of the maps you named are real classics and removing them kinda feels like a big fuck you to the vets.

Offline Petterkowski

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Re: Removal of excess DM/+ maps.
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2016, 12:28:35 pm »
First of all, we at new soldat mapping team very much appreciate the support that all players that have played the game for so long have given Soldat. Without you guys, your love of the game and how you spread the word around you, things would clearly not be the same.

Devs are currently making some pretty neat changes to the game. I do have to agree that I, as a veteran player, am feeling increasingly unimportant to them. But it is just a feature patch. Perhaps they do have plans to introduce significant, permanent content updates for veteran players to enjoy, and it'll just take a little more time than first update because Soldat is super great and important and unique and it's the only thing anybody wants right now, right? In order to interest newbies we need those changes

Today's and upcoming big changes will not have as many visible effects to you specifically as it would have for a brand new player, that knows very little about the game. The new direction system should help you get a clearer and more useful top-tight UI and a map-pool, but also give you better learning process. We aim the changes at new players while preserving the absolute classics with a bit of necessary tweaks that wouldn't affect the gameplay. The list that you saw in this post is not a definite change. We talked things over and based our decisions on statistics. You'll be able to see them in the upcoming release. I can assure you that Soldat will not lose its old flow. Each map from the map-pool will be well-themed and receive a top notch remake that will not hurt the historical part of the play. Stay tuned for the names.

While, as a veteran player, I'm only vaguely interested in new map improvements, I don't think it would make a lot of sense to leave these improvements sitting on the table if they're 80% complete already and will be 100% complete by the 1.8 big release.

As you noted, it is mainly targeted at new players, those that need it the most. We want their learning experience to be better so that they, too, can become veteran players of Soldat one day! Learning to play a brand new game, and movements can be a daunting and hard task.

We want more people to be able to walk this path we walked and this is why we implemented the new maps system with tutorials on the way, to create a route that new players can walk and feel rewarded along the way. Let us do what's the best for the game because we do believe that Soldat can be saved! We can still have thousands of players every day, but if we change nothing, nothing will change. It's good to have maps that play out in different ways. And I think we could do with a little more variation than the scene currently has. I think a lot of people are being overly conservative for no good reason. Again, thanks for your support!
« Last Edit: September 12, 2016, 05:25:17 pm by Petterkowski »


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Offline duz

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Re: Removal of excess DM/+ maps.
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2016, 09:20:32 am »
I'm talking about this for ages.
Here's a topic with some suggestions: https://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=44223

For me, doesn't matter which map gonna be removed, almost every TM/DM map is a piece of shit in terms of design and the spawns scheme.
I'm gonna post a little feedback based on almost 10 players playing TM as my main gamemode and a lot of DM championships including ESLs etc.

You can remove or not, doesn't matter, but these maps already have a very well established theme and this could be availed:
MrSnowman - The only ice map available, the snowman is a good thing to work with.
Jungle -  Vietnam (or something like that) theme and the helicopter...
Bridge - Refers instantly to the London bridge.

Just one more thing...
Avoid a common mistake: Please, don't choose/make maps that can't be used on all these gamemodes. Here's an example: Aero. The TM gameplay on this map is a mess, looks like a random DM with teams. You basicaly can't organize your team, they're playing solo even in a team and this is not a good thing for a team based mode.

And please, don't consider jrgp's opinions. ::)
« Last Edit: September 13, 2016, 09:22:32 am by duz »
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Offline machina

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Re: Removal of excess DM/+ maps.
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2016, 08:01:31 am »
Hey, I actually liked Airpirates. Maybe instead of removing it entirely, we could fix it a bit. For example that stupid machine gun. Make it useful by lowering the tower and giving one greater angle so it could fire at grass to its right hand side?

Offline Monsteri

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Re: Removal of excess DM/+ maps.
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2016, 10:58:17 am »
We have chosen the 15 DM maps that will be included by default. More details in the future.
Sorry if I'm insolent.

Offline homerofgods

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Re: Removal of excess DM/+ maps.
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2016, 12:11:30 pm »
We have chosen the 15 DM maps that will be included by default. More details in the future.
Great! If we continue to debate nothing gets done! You have my support

Offline Seth Gecko

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Re: Removal of excess DM/+ maps.
« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2016, 03:28:19 pm »
Hey, I actually liked Airpirates. Maybe instead of removing it entirely, we could fix it a bit.

Maybe the phrasing was not optimal when Monsteri spoke of removal.
There is no intention of removing a map completely since it is each server owner's responsibility to select a map pool.

The mapping team is looking for a minimal set of popular maps which are going to receive a makeover (aka "default/official map pool").

Offline You Got Served!

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Re: Removal of excess DM/+ maps.
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2016, 06:21:21 am »
Oh wow. This post makes me nauseous. Sweaty palms. Why? PLEASE WHY?

How about instead of shitting on the work of others and unilaterally taking the decision to remove what is essntially the last 14 years of my gaming life, you create your own viable solution to the problem and make new maps which the community enjoy. If you don't have the creativity to produce content which rivals the status quo then what makes you think you are in any position to make the decision of removing maps on "our behalf".

Maybe there is a reason that people still play "ugly, boring" maps. Maybe the community's opinion differs from that of your own! Maybe you should be respectful of the fact that there are still Soldiers supporting this game, and have done for many years. Maybe it's bullsh!t like this which alienates the dedicated playerbase in turn driving down activity. Maybe you're being fatuous and counterproductive in your endeavours. Though, I do appreciate the efforts being made by the development team it seems somewhat misguided.

Look at what happened to Chernobyl and ctf_Crashed_Bridge. I happened to like both of those map, as did many. Where are they now? Yes the onus is upon server owners to create a map list that's reflective of their particular communities interests, but how many admins/hosts do you think are going to take the time to rummage through the internet to find maps which aren't included in the default download so that they may continue to host these treasured maps. How many gems will be lost in the process??? And how do you think it will affect the map rotation across all servers by limiting choices? Welcome to Soldat 2016!! Identical map lists across the board.

Leaving the maps in the zip does no damage to the game whatsoever. As mentioned, it is the server hosts who select which maps are in rotation and that would usually be reflective of the communty it serves. Take for example, a server which I admin'd for a few years, (Which is set for a return soon for those who are wondering, the K!ngs shall reign again!), we had a relatively small map rotation list, but added many maps to the server so that people are able to vote their favourite maps. We would add maps by request, even CS maps which I loathe, in order to serve the community.

I KNOW! Why don't we just remove jets? Bear with me here.. Jets provide greater mobility to Soldiers which stands to prolong gameplay by avoiding being killed, thus extending the time Soldiers have to look at these "ugly, boring" maps. And WTF this is 2016 and we're here promoting gun violence through the medium of what is ultimately a childs play thing! Can't we just have water pistols and run around wearing hula skirts and skinny jeans, because Soldiers are so 2002. While we're being progressive, when do you plan on adding some banging One Direction tunes to the music file list so as to be inclusive to all the young Soldiers you hope to recruit by removing "ugly, boring" maps. Because let's face it no-one presses F6 anymore, and nobody even likes Necromancide, right? RIGHT? - Yes. We can all make fatuous suggestions.

Yes, you are insolent. Apology not accepted.

You Got Served!

P.S. Don't you dare touch Tropiccave or Bridge. Rok = forgettable/ugly? Flashback less interesting blah blah blah? DesertWind frustrating? Bridge uninteresting? Arena3 boring? DO YOU EVEN SOLDAT, BRO???

Your reasoning seems biased and fallacious.

Offline Seth Gecko

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Re: Removal of excess DM/+ maps.
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2016, 08:16:59 am »
...
...
Yes the onus is upon server owners to create a map list that's reflective of their particular communities interests, but how many admins/hosts do you think are going to take the time to rummage through the internet to find maps which aren't included in the default download so that they may continue to host these treasured maps. How many gems will be lost in the process???
...
...

Instead of taking your time to write this wall of hate, you could have spent a moment thinking about a good solution for your problem.

For example, you could have created an archive containing all current DM maps which are not going to be considered "default" in the future, and offered this archive as download in a fitting section of this forum.
I assume, somebody hosting a DM server would take the time to download and extract this archive if he wants these maps to be played.

I like your English skills though, nice use of vocabulary.  :)

Offline machina

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Re: Removal of excess DM/+ maps.
« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2016, 10:28:24 am »
For example, you could have created an archive containing all current DM maps which are not going to be considered "default" in the future, and offered this archive as download in a fitting section of this forum.
jrgp's web would do I bet i.e. http://tms.jrgp.org

Still, in my opinion, maps once added to Soldat should remain there forever. Not just for diversity, particular players' sentiment but also as gratitude for map makers those spent a lot of time to create them. Seriously, there's always been a team to decide whether map should be included or not (except from vanilla perhaps).

Offline You Got Served!

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Re: Removal of excess DM/+ maps.
« Reply #30 on: September 15, 2016, 12:15:18 pm »
Hello, Seth.

I appreciate your advice, however, I would not have pointed out the shortcomings of others had I not been in a position to pass judgement myself. I'm currently hoarding 424 Soldat maps. As you rightly say I can just upload them to a server job done, right? Wrong.

The issue I have is not solely a personal one but one for the entire communty. One of the arguments put forth by people in favour of this stance is that there is a need for greater variety, but they say this without realising that they are countering their own argument. There would in fact be less variety in the map pool as a direct result of this development. Now how does that translate in practice? More servers with less maps! Which will only lead to further stagnation of the game. Hurraaaa???

Should I or others be confined to one server in order to play the maps we like just because some guy who happens to be on the development team deems them ugly and boring? They're pretending to be giving us something when the reality is they are taking away from us.

I do appreciate the time and effort the dev team offer and although I don't personally think that the maps need HD remakes I understand that some people feel there is a need for change over time and I will respect that if it is a majority opinion, irrespective of my strongly held conservative beliefs. What I fail to grasp is why they would remove maps that they have no intention of developing (fortunately), in spite of there being many who have supported the game for a very long time primarily because of this content. To reduce the zip by a couple of MB? I see it as akin to book burning. It's an absolute nonsense.

Furthermore, it should not be upon the end user to have to safeguard core components of a product they paid for. Will I get a refund if the content I supported is removed? Many of the textures and sceneries are used for mulitple maps meaning that if these files are updated to be in HD it would generate conflicts with the "ugly boring" maps. So I am now expected to not only compile an archive of said maps but also test and resolve ID conflicts for each individual file? Sod that for a game of Soldiers.

It is not my intention to come across as hateful. On the contrary. I am passionate about Soldat and I expected people would appreciate that having invested so much time and a bit of money on this game, that it might give rise to a few heated words when such drastic changes are proposed. I do appologise to anyone who has taken personal offence to my comments and hope that those people realise that this very topic is offensive to me.

A good solution to my problem would be if there was a compromise where the development team agreed to leave intact the maps which aren't going to be updated.

You seem like a pleasant person. Thank you for engaging me in a civil manner.

Offline Hubiq

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Re: Removal of excess DM/+ maps.
« Reply #31 on: September 15, 2016, 03:43:58 pm »
Quote
Aero
Airpirates
Arena
Arena2
Arena3
Bigfalls
Blox
Bridge
Bunker
Cambodia
CrackedBoot
Daybreak
DesertWind
Factory
Flashback
HH
Island2k5
Jungle
Krab
Lagrange
Leaf
MrSnowMan
Ratcave
Rok
RR
Shau
Tropiccave
Unlim
Veoto

The maps to be removed:

This is a joke right? If not, I have one question. You're sick or just stupid?

Offline machina

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Re: Removal of excess DM/+ maps.
« Reply #32 on: September 15, 2016, 05:27:32 pm »
Quote
Aero
Airpirates
Arena
Arena2
Arena3
Bigfalls
Blox
Bridge
Bunker
Cambodia
CrackedBoot
Daybreak
DesertWind
Factory
Flashback
HH
Island2k5
Jungle
Krab
Lagrange
Leaf
MrSnowMan
Ratcave
Rok
RR
Shau
Tropiccave
Unlim
Veoto

The maps to be removed:

This is a joke right? If not, I have one question. You're sick or just stupid?
The quoted text in your post makes me actually super confused about that what you're relating to.

If you were asking if this is a list of maps those are currently available in Soldat then it's not a joke.

Offline You Got Served!

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Re: Removal of excess DM/+ maps.
« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2016, 08:45:40 am »
Official maps? Such a travesty.

As for the insults, there were none. Insolent is an accurate description of your current position.

You said yourself in a previous post on this thread that the original maps conflict with the HD (HugelyDisappointing) re-skins. So don't lie to me. So yes I will be expected to do a lot of legwork in order to play content which has been the standard for well over a decade. Cool story, bro.

What you fail to understand is that the mainstay of Soldat's community are people who are highly dedicated, and will play for hours upon hours, most days a week. Just because you're likely some poser who sets up the odd 30 minute private game once every other week doesn't mean there aren't people who need a wide selection of maps so that the game doesn't become monotonous. I played twenty-odd DM maps yersterday alone.

No, you're not going to remove all 29 default DM maps. But you've suggested to remove up to 18 of them. Simply because you're not dedicated enough re-skin the "excess" maps. I dread to think what bounty you will squander when you start culling CTF maps.

Just because a plan is 80% in completion isn't to say that it should go ahead regardless. Hitler almost had his way but that doesn't mean he should have finished what he started because he was already a percentage complete. Nazi's were also known for book burning. & mass depopulation... The pattern emerges!

It would appear that the time has come for England to once again help Poland safeguard her assests.

Offline duz

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Re: Removal of excess DM/+ maps.
« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2016, 10:01:50 am »
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Offline Monsteri

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Re: Removal of excess DM/+ maps.
« Reply #35 on: September 17, 2016, 10:48:55 am »
No, you're not going to remove all 29 default DM maps. But you've suggested to remove up to 18 of them. Simply because you're not dedicated enough re-skin the "excess" maps. I dread to think what bounty you will squander when you start culling CTF maps.
Dedicated? You know what? Pay me 2900€+ wages monthly, and I'll gladly re-skin all the maps, every single one.
Sorry if I'm insolent.

Offline Fale

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Re: Removal of excess DM/+ maps.
« Reply #36 on: September 18, 2016, 11:56:32 am »
Just leave everything as it is, people have and want to play their favourite maps. Stop constantly destroying this beautiful game with pointless updates/features or focus on fixing bugs instead. Soldat is what it is and we like it that way!

Offline darDar

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Re: Removal of excess DM/+ maps.
« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2016, 12:09:06 pm »
Just leave everything as it is, people have and want to play their favourite maps. Stop constantly destroying this beautiful game with pointless updates/features or focus on fixing bugs instead. Soldat is what it is and we like it that way!
And they'll be still able to do so after the update. Just that non-official maps will no longer be updated and supported and are nothing we want to sell players as an official part of Soldat.

"Leave everything as it is" - Yeah, well that's exactly why Soldat isn't as good as it could be.
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Offline You Got Served!

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Re: Removal of excess DM/+ maps.
« Reply #38 on: September 18, 2016, 02:40:33 pm »
Soldat is worse now than it ever was. In almost every aspect. "Leave everything as it is" is pretty extreem, but I'd go one further and say revert to a previous version. (I hear some already do.)

Nobody kills Kakarot while I'm around! Destiny has reserved that pleasure for me.

Fale is a well respected, dedicated player. Type of guy who will wait around in empty servers for people to join, and then still be there hours after many have been and gone. You know, the type of guy you really should want to keep on board. He helps keep this game alive. There are increasinly fewer people of this type. A little appeasment wouldn't go amiss.

I don't want to take a sour tone here but it strikes me odd that every time a disgruntled Soldier expresses their thoughts they are immediately shot down.

Seriously, it's a good job FF isn't on. Us guys are on your team. It's small wonder so many have gone awol.

You could actually suggest to make some small concessions or something idk. Maybe add a prefix to the "boring ugly" maps & not update them. I know.. Next map: boring_ugly_Arena

You can't be so out of touch to actually think the GFX hurt the game THAT much. My 8 year old son enjoys 8bit Mario. 16bit Zelda. Many people are into retro things these days. And you're seriously not dumb enough to deny a game its legacy? Don't mutilate Soldat on its death bed because of a minority opinion please. Really, these brighter colours aren't all that much to some people. :)

I can identify your reasoning, and let me tell you its madness. You hope to make this shiny new release which will wow the masses and make Soldat popular again so you can all dance around singing "We did it!". It won't happen like that. Promotion is key and without that you're doomed. - I have never seen Soldat promoted anywhere.

Monsteri: I would sooner pay you that amount NOT to update these maps.

Soldat is still a great game. Let's not plunder it's potential.

Offline Slasher

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Re: Removal of excess DM/+ maps.
« Reply #39 on: September 18, 2016, 02:51:23 pm »
Krab <3  :D
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