Author Topic: Petition to MM: Make Soldat Open Source  (Read 3580 times)

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helloer

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Petition to MM: Make Soldat Open Source
« on: September 25, 2017, 05:57:14 pm »
Hello,

After 15 years it's time to move on. Our proposal is to make soldat open source. This is necessary thing to do to keep this game alive for years to come.

Please read and sign the petition to Michał Marcinkowski: https://www.change.org/p/micha%C5%82-marcinkowski-make-soldat-open-source


Offline Nedi

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Re: Petition to MM: Make Soldat Open Source
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2017, 06:22:37 pm »
I totally agree with the idea and I hope it will succeed. Let's revive this game together.

Offline urraka

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Re: Petition to MM: Make Soldat Open Source
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2017, 07:05:30 pm »
I hope everyone joins this wagon. No good reason to keep it closed source and we've waited long enough for it.
urraka

Offline Savage

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Re: Petition to MM: Make Soldat Open Source
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2017, 07:45:09 pm »
Also agree.

Offline Irlandec

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Re: Petition to MM: Make Soldat Open Source
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2017, 10:09:46 pm »
I also agree with this decision. Let's make our game great again.

Offline Michal Marcinkowski

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Re: Petition to MM: Make Soldat Open Source
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2017, 05:18:05 am »
Hello :)
This has been discussed many times over the years. I was never against open sourcing. The problem is that it would be ILLEGAL.
Soldat uses certain libraries that can't be used in open source software. To address this we decided years ago (with Shoozza) to rewrite those libraries or replace them with open source alternatives. Unfortunately, this was a too big of an effort. If anyone feels like they can do this they are more than welcome on the dev team.
As for now we want to focus on releasing the game on Steam, so we can give it a breath of new air. We need more players. We need to make it alive again. Make it FUN again.

Official announcement: https://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=44966.new#new
« Last Edit: September 26, 2017, 05:29:01 am by Michal Marcinkowski »

Offline Irlandec

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Re: Petition to MM: Make Soldat Open Source
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2017, 02:44:08 pm »
Guys, if MM himself replied to this post it doesn't mean we should stop thinking about our game's future.
At the moment, we have reached 56 supporters of this idea already. Amazing job for a "dead" game, isn't it?
Let's make it to 100 and let MM see that we want a better future for us!

Offline jrgp

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Re: Petition to MM: Make Soldat Open Source
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2017, 05:53:19 pm »
Another point to consider: many times people will request something to be made open source, or will open source something they made which was closed for a while.

Sprinkling the "open source" fairy dust on a codebase does not guarantee progress or that meaningful contributions will come externally.
Careful with that axe, Eugene.

Offline homerofgods

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Re: Petition to MM: Make Soldat Open Source
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2017, 02:13:13 pm »
After a little chat with Helloer I am intrigued to ask what exactly is illegal in soldats repository? What actually is hindering us from at least having the possibility to make it open source?
Since MM is not against open sourcing, and Shoozza is a man of reason, let's find reasons why we should prioritize open sourcing!

It is easier to contribute to an open source project. Right now you need to sign a CLA and be a member of a team, which means commitment. With open source you can just download the source, fix something and send back as pull request that needs to be accepted by maintainer. A lot of developers would object to be working on a closed source commercial project for free. Look at https://github.com/ioquake/ioq3/graphs/contributors  All of those 1 commiters would not join the devteam only to commit one change.

Shoozza must have his reasons to object to open sourcing, and I would like to hear them as well. I understand if you can't go into detail on the code but could you please explain your thoughts to the community in as much detail as you are allowed to Shoozza?

I myself is concerned that it will lead to a divided community, any thoughts on that?
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 02:15:30 pm by homerofgods »

Offline Shoozza

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Re: Petition to MM: Make Soldat Open Source
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2017, 05:51:02 pm »
0) easier for cheater developers to create and update their cheats (olivers anti cheat would help here)
1) like jrgp said, it doesn't exactly mean we will get a lot of activity, most of soldats open sourced projects are inactive and don't get pull requests or commits (also only a hand full of people work on them), you cannot compare it with very popular open source projects, you might win the lottery but considering that is isn't everyone's favorite programming language we are already on a disadvantage
2) divided community due to forks, is a risk atm, there was a lot of drama the past 2 years in the dev team so it isn't unlikely to occur (i'd like to avoid more drama as it slows development down and can kill motivation), after x forks then in the end everyone looses motivation, you have x different soldat's and nobody knows where to pick up and so it dies
3) you have to take other people into account and if they would still help, monsteri has other plans and open sourcing would mean we 100% don't get his graphics revamp
4) we can open source at any time in the future some time after the graphics revamp maybe
5) the game needs a someone who merges the requests and moves it forward that isn't different from the current situation and
6) I just got soldat after nothing happened for a long time, i'd like to actually do something to restore the trust of the community in the dev team even if it is only me

In the past we had an autoupdater which was integrated into soldat and neccessary to compile which would prevent soldat from going open source, i removed it some time ago.
I think there might be one more library which could be a problem but im not sure (have to look) but i think it might not be a problem.

That said I'd like to make sure we don't close doors behind us which we cannot unlock anymore. That said I have a few open source projects on github so I'm not against it in general.

The most important thing is the game and that we move it forward - to get more players for the community so people can keep enjoy it, because it is damn fun and has always been that way.
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Offline soldat-game

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Re: Petition to MM: Make Soldat Open Source
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2017, 06:54:56 pm »
Too much, you spoiled this game with updates to update fewer and fewer players. After the last mod weapons broke me completely lost interest to play.
You destroyed the barrett and the way you move around the map, you adjusted a lot of things FOR OWN SERVERS!

Exhunter - kill move about
Shoozza - add new system movement and kill barrett
DarDar - kill weapons mod
falcon - development of their servers
Someone - create lags if there are many shots on the map

and .. Shoozza is old hacker :_)  (wEeEeDy :*)

Offline Moroes

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Re: Petition to MM: Make Soldat Open Source
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2017, 04:00:28 am »
Exhunter - kill move about
According to google translator you wanted to write "He killed himself" or maybe "Kill yourself"? What the fuck is that supposed to mean?
English, please, you lil piece of translator shite. I've got no idea what you're talking about. Wasn't it Ex who was the last person in dev team who cared about movement (I guess Falcon did too but I got it all mingled, it has been some time)? I kinda feel that without him we would end up with those broken backflips which were part of beta(maybe rc) versions. He did some cool SC3 stuff too and hosted pretty good running servers. He has unfortunately dissapeared  ::)
Shoozza - add new system movement and kill barrett
Dunno bout this, I guess you're just bitching like always.
DarDar - kill weapons mod
Heard that before. You might be right with this one. WM isn't top priority anyway.
falcon - development of their servers
That's what people do. They develop stuff. Oh wait, do you mean beta binaries of soldat servers? Yes, there are/were few of them but any decent and active scripter could get his hands on them. Which is not your case ofc. Afaik you might have them(no idea why). So what is this about? Poor english and lack of brain I'd say.
Btw: Falcon is the guy who created SC3. Don't forget that.
Someone - create lags if there are many shots on the map
I'd beat the shit out of that Someone guy. Someone gimme his address. Oh wait. What?
and .. Shoozza is old hacker :_)  (wEeEeDy :*)
Who's not? Many scripters/devs did shady stuff. I guess it was even profitable back in the day unlike being a dev. Don't act like a good guy, Dominik.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2017, 04:06:56 am by Moroes »

Offline daaw

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Re: Petition to MM: Make Soldat Open Source
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2017, 12:26:30 pm »
I still dont understand ..
..can someone explain to me like to a normal human being..
why exactly you can't open source it ..if you are not against it?

Offline Slasher

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Re: Petition to MM: Make Soldat Open Source
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2017, 07:40:07 pm »
Yo, Shoozza.
   The game is slowly dying and we do not have much time, hoping to improve the graphics will take a lot of time, in my opinion, the graphics are not bad.
   A good team needs a climate and all the members understand each other, so I see that the situation is not very good, try recruiting new members to help. Because until now you have not sought other people to help you?
   The time is passing and the soldat is late!       
                     
« Last Edit: September 28, 2017, 07:48:14 pm by Slasher »
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Offline Slasher

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Re: Petition to MM: Make Soldat Open Source
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2017, 07:54:57 pm »
Too much, you spoiled this game with updates to update fewer and fewer players. After the last mod weapons broke me completely lost interest to play.
You destroyed the barrett and the way you move around the map, you adjusted a lot of things FOR OWN SERVERS!

Exhunter - kill move about
Shoozza - add new system movement and kill barrett
DarDar - kill weapons mod
falcon - development of their servers
Someone - create lags if there are many shots on the map

and .. Shoozza is old hacker :_)  (wEeEeDy :*)
Do not talk nonsense and try to help in some way,idiot
Make love, not war.

Offline Akinaro

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Re: Petition to MM: Make Soldat Open Source
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2017, 06:25:00 am »
Do not talk nonsense and try to help in some way,idiot

Its funny that for all those years, Dominik is only person who actually tried to make something, he made, and most important, update, lots of scripts in this forum.
For all those years of making fun of him, he still here, updating his work, suggesting ideas... and people still would rather make fun of his English instead of looking at it in wider perspective. Picking just one or two post and focusing on them.

For example. What you did Slasher? Really?
What most of people did?

More than half of people here did something long time ago, and beside that nothing, rest of it, is never ending stream of useless talking. They have on this forum respect not for what they did overall, but because of time they spend here, others know them, and that is only thing that give them better place in ranking "who is right".
All people who had ideas, knowledge, and examples of all that where buried under all that discussion of forum veterans that never stop talking.... they talk, and talk, and talk, and nothing is made. And when someone show up with something real, already made or ideas that could be implemented where mocked and annoyed...


So yeah, before you open your mouth Slasher its good to look at something in wider perspective, because you can realize that some people and some things, are not like you though.

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: Petition to MM: Make Soldat Open Source
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2017, 01:12:37 pm »
Helloer makes a lot of good points. Especially his response to #0 - the "easier to develop cheats" argument just doesn't matter much at this point.

Instead of making Soldat 100% free I think "premium" version should remain too (or re-implemented in the future). King Arthur's Gold used a similar system which seemed to work well against cheaters and griefers - there was a free-to-play version of the game, and a paid version with an account system. From what I remember, server owners could set their servers to "unprotected" (which would allow anyone in), to "protected" (which would only allow players with no bans), to "gold" servers (which would only allow premium players). Something similar might work with Soldat, especially with more account-bound and/or paid features being added (like frequently requested stat-tracking, achievements, unlockable cosmetics, etc.) to discourage players from getting their account banned, and giving server owners protection against fresh "expendable" accounts.

I think as a long-term goal this might work better than maintaining an anti-cheat that adds no extra features for honest players.

Release what we have right now for free as the "lite" version, while the extra goodies implemented in the future could be made part of the new "premium".
« Last Edit: September 29, 2017, 01:16:08 pm by L[0ne]R »


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Offline Mokkun

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Re: Petition to MM: Make Soldat Open Source
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2017, 02:31:31 pm »
Helloer makes a lot of good points. Especially his response to #0 - the "easier to develop cheats" argument just doesn't matter much at this point.

Instead of making Soldat 100% free I think "premium" version should remain too (or re-implemented in the future). King Arthur's Gold used a similar system which seemed to work well against cheaters and griefers - there was a free-to-play version of the game, and a paid version with an account system. From what I remember, server owners could set their servers to "unprotected" (which would allow anyone in), to "protected" (which would only allow players with no bans), to "gold" servers (which would only allow premium players). Something similar might work with Soldat, especially with more account-bound and/or paid features being added (like frequently requested stat-tracking, achievements, unlockable cosmetics, etc.) to discourage players from getting their account banned, and giving server owners protection against fresh "expendable" accounts.

I think as a long-term goal this might work better than maintaining an anti-cheat that adds no extra features for honest players.

Release what we have right now for free as the "lite" version, while the extra goodies implemented in the future could be made part of the new "premium".

We could use VAC for people that are on steam but the problem would be for people that don't use steam, but yeah I agree, if we want to prevent cheating, some account system would make it easier

Offline %%%%%%%

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Re: Petition to MM: Make Soldat Open Source
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2017, 03:07:59 pm »
Make it open source, and still release it to Steam

Maybe rethink the release date if there's flexibility in that regard

Most importantly, though: make it open source

Anything short of open source at this point is, frankly, asinine

Offline Slasher

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Re: Petition to MM: Make Soldat Open Source
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2017, 05:23:21 pm »
Do not talk nonsense and try to help in some way,idiot

Its funny that for all those years, Dominik is only person who actually tried to make something, he made, and most important, update, lots of scripts in this forum.
For all those years of making fun of him, he still here, updating his work, suggesting ideas... and people still would rather make fun of his English instead of looking at it in wider perspective. Picking just one or two post and focusing on them.

For example. What you did Slasher? Really?
What most of people did?

More than half of people here did something long time ago, and beside that nothing, rest of it, is never ending stream of useless talking. They have on this forum respect not for what they did overall, but because of time they spend here, others know them, and that is only thing that give them better place in ranking "who is right".
All people who had ideas, knowledge, and examples of all that where buried under all that discussion of forum veterans that never stop talking.... they talk, and talk, and talk, and nothing is made. And when someone show up with something real, already made or ideas that could be implemented where mocked and annoyed...


So yeah, before you open your mouth Slasher its good to look at something in wider perspective, because you can realize that some people and some things, are not like you though.
You're right, but
Everyone knows what he did, not taking away his impotence, because no one can criticize him? He criticized 5 people and I can not criticize him? If he's criticizing, why does not he do better? rly
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