Author Topic: Devlog update (2017-10-08) poll, soldat banner, background discussions..  (Read 1846 times)

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Offline Toxic Avenger

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Re: Devlog update (2017-10-08) poll, soldat banner, background discussions..
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2017, 09:53:34 am »
I get that the game needs to evolve, so you're wrong there. I'd love some relevant improvement. The gfx never was a problem.

You're simply wrong about graphics. Graphics are not important, that's that. It will not be the basis of attration for new players and I'm astounded that you cannot realize this  :-\
Instead of presenting the possible Steam-players with "HD graphics" you could present them a decent "retro-design" instead.

The menus could use some improvement, sure. But again, gfx itself is not the problem. Move around some menus and buttons and it'll be fine, no artist required here.


I don't really cry over the change in graphics, I'm not sentimental. I just don't want devs precious time to be wasted on shit when they could actually improve the game instead.
And this is one whining player you won't lose no matter what, but you can definitely forget those 10 new ones if you follow the gfx-track.

Offline Akinaro

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Re: Devlog update (2017-10-08) poll, soldat banner, background discussions..
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2017, 11:09:15 am »
Again, look at that problem from wider perspective, not just your personal preferences.

If you would spend some time actually checking gaming industry, marketing and average player needs/likes you would understand what I was writing.
Especially take in to the account current market of indie games. Trend for that type of games i long time gone. People again moved to mmo.
And if you, AGAIN,  look at this problem from wider perspective you would know that Soldat dont have any marketing or capabilities to advertise game just by showing  "retro-design" old school shooter. Most of people have no idea about Soldat, so you need to treat opportunity of releasing game on steam to get new players, and just look at any statistic and trends of players, you have lots of sources to see that starting from steam it self ending in site that gather such statistic, or just looking at other forums and players.

Soldat can aim to get older players to play again but not without a reason those players stopped playing. It can aim for this small percentage of players that still prefer old school 2d shooters, but most of them knew Soldat and know why no one play it. Or it can fit to market and interest new players by presenting proper visual style, global statistic system and proper customization, because those things are "must have" for any multiplayer game today. And as far as stats and customization need to be done in game it self by programmers. Graphical aspect can made without touching game it self, because soldat fortunately is somehow "modular" and graphic of maps or menu could be done without too much "under the hood" work.

And its obvious that you dont really get it, because its not like ALL of devs would work on graphic, its a matter of finding few graphic artist to do it, but sadly dev team have no idea how to use community and external help(because they would use it long time ago), so for most of time they try to put all work on one man shoulder(for example Monsteri). They have no idea that you can actually separate that problem to parts and just ask around the internet to get help with that, there are lots of people who would love to help and get this work on their portfolio. Because if you dont have proper dev team and resources, you look for help in community. Its a matter of spending some time searching on services/forums that gather artist/programmers.

Also no one say that graphic need to be in the first place. Of course its important to fix problems and implement other "must have" features(eg statistics system, proper customization), because stats are one of most important things in today online games. But unification and improving visual aspect of the game should have priority over other things.
If you not get it just do simple test, show random players on forums/sites typical soldat screenshot of menu and game, and check their reaction, or better just give them game and see how long they gonna play it. You would understand that today players are caressed by games, there are millions of them and because of that if player dont like something he move to other product.

As I said soldat dont have any advertising capabilities, it cant get players by just saying how cool gameplay is, and its history and few remaining players would probably scare away new players, so its need something to keep players, and one of this thing is proper, unified graphic. its just a part of bigger plan but its easiest to make right now and no matter of changes in game core, all that work can be used anyway. There are only pluses here.

Offline duz

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Re: Devlog update (2017-10-08) poll, soldat banner, background discussions..
« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2017, 06:46:15 pm »
And its obvious that you dont really get it, because its not like ALL of devs would work on graphic, its a matter of finding few graphic artist to do it, but sadly dev team have no idea how to use community and external help(because they would use it long time ago), so for most of time they try to put all work on one man shoulder(for example Monsteri). They have no idea that you can actually separate that problem to parts and just ask around the internet to get help with that, there are lots of people who would love to help and get this work on their portfolio. Because if you dont have proper dev team and resources, you look for help in community. Its a matter of spending some time searching on services/forums that gather artist/programmers.

This.
All you have to do is: take a look at the old SoldatForums and how the community was engaged.
Anyone's work was important. Looks like nowadays even if you have some abilities or good ideas... it doesn't matter.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 01:31:47 am by duz »
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Offline Sipar

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Re: Devlog update (2017-10-08) poll, soldat banner, background discussions..
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2017, 07:57:32 am »
Speaking of gfx/game design. I think the graphics (and the game itself) needs to get more edgy, cheeky and controversial (sigvatr style). Soldat for sure has the potential.

ie less this


more this


I am glad the development still keeps going btw. Thanks for info.

Offline Akinaro

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Re: Devlog update (2017-10-08) poll, soldat banner, background discussions..
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2017, 09:17:43 am »
So you basically want to force on game your preferred style.
Because its a matter of looking for your previous post to see that you are biased toward candy-pixelated style.

I hope you know that its public game, played by lots of people, and I can ensure you that not so much people would like that pixel-chaos that you like so much. Someone could actually say that it would be huge downgrade that could broke game and scare away any new player.

Of course that pixelated style have its own charm, but I personally think that you would not only dont get new players, but scare way old players.

As often as I mention need for change I didnt suggest anything because Its not one man decision. For that you doing market research, few concept arts and show them as many people as you can. It dont cost ANYTHING beside some time, and after that you would get basic idea of what people need.

Also honestly, this pixelated style that you are so fond of, can be actually be made as a mod... its a matter of downgrading everything to just bunch of pixels... so its not really development of game.

Offline Sipar

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Re: Devlog update (2017-10-08) poll, soldat banner, background discussions..
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2017, 09:43:04 am »
"market researching, asking people what they want, evaluation, ..." usually never leaded to interesting results. It leads to game without balls.
The real gems with soul are crafted by strong stubborn artists/developers with opinion, driven by intuition, randomness and spontaneity, with sense for experiment.

Edit:
Quote
I hope you know that its public game, played by lots of people, and I can ensure you that not so much people would like that pixel-chaos that you like so much. Someone could actually say that it would be huge downgrade that could broke game and scare away any new player.

Soldat was never meant for pussies.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 09:51:36 am by Sipar »

Offline Akinaro

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Re: Devlog update (2017-10-08) poll, soldat banner, background discussions..
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2017, 10:57:29 am »
Your post just prove sad thing that not only you live in your own world not really compatible with reality, and your lack of imagination end in mumbling about pussies...
What graphic style of game have to do to game it self: its gameplay, hardness and features? You think that creating 8bit pixel style make Soldat for "Real men", and unifying it and polishing it to other style make it for "pussies"?
What retarded reasoning is that?!

But in the same time you also weirdly pointed something that I mentioned few times in recent years: No one in dev team have balls to push Soldat further.
Because yes, game need heavy hand, especially in such times where game literally dying, but that heavy hand need to know what its doing.

Good developer do his job as he like, but it know what people need, know how to advertise game. Because you can create game that is perfect in your opinion in every way... but no one gonna play it.

Oh yeah, you would have the balls to make pixelated heaven with lots of action, but without proper preparation you will shoot and miss market and your game will be just another drop in the sea.

You see, this is difference between summer friend project where bunch of guys make a game, and proper game project that aim to gather as many players as possible and in the same time earn money, or fame(depending what you want).
You can spend years creating game "not for pussies", and no one gonna even look at it because you F up its marketing, you would create your own toy and hope that you gather players with similar taste like yours.


Because you see WE HAVE your mentioned ""real gems with soul"", its called "Soldat". But to give it attention it deserve you need to somehow fit it to market. Soldat already have what good game need, right now all you need do to is polish it, make it appealing for average player, put inside some features that modern player need and learn to advertise it.

Approach like you have is not helping at all, and just prove the point that most of remaining players are old morons who just want toy for them self that will remind them old times.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 11:00:49 am by Akinaro »

Offline machina

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Re: Devlog update (2017-10-08) poll, soldat banner, background discussions..
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2017, 04:29:21 pm »
more this

Are you drunk?

I am glad the development still keeps going btw.
Due to the recent "break" in releasing new dev logs it's a bit debatable.

Focus on graphics iz like pearls before swine.

What's wrong with you who think that what Soldat needs are better graphics.
Well, it's not just him: https://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=44967.0

Besides, what makes you believe that other things are gonna get fixed real time soon if ever? I don't think we're going to have an anti-cheat any time soon. Eats have not been fixed since ever. Is this suddenly gonna change? No. Matchmaking/in-game gather system is a lot of work and there's like one dev to deal with all of it.

Today's gamers give a lot of shit about the gfx. The thing is to make them at least try to play Soldat. They may find out it's a bit buggy in many ways but at least they will give it a shot.

It'll change nothing except maybe in adding performance issues for some players.
What?! How could that possibly happen? It's a damn 2D game. A set of pictures those change their orientation. Besides, what do you want to keep it compatible with? Soldat eats like 65 MB RAM. A random smarthphone has 2 GB of RAM. PCs have at least 512 MB and if the trend continues in next 2 year they will extinct. Should we really targeting these people? Less than 0.02% of all Steam players?



Offline scarface09

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Re: Devlog update (2017-10-08) poll, soldat banner, background discussions..
« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2017, 10:47:04 pm »
gg to deathdat
Football is the other face of the world. If you don't like it, then you can get the hell out!

Offline Mittsu

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Re: Devlog update (2017-10-08) poll, soldat banner, background discussions..
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2017, 09:17:16 am »
goddamn Akinaro, even if you have a point I would suggest you work on how you get that point across, the "you are retarded, i know everything, you know nothing, do as i say" attitude never convinced anyone
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Offline Akinaro

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Re: Devlog update (2017-10-08) poll, soldat banner, background discussions..
« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2017, 05:09:47 am »
Go check old forum post, you will find people who say what they think by licking dev ass prising everything they say, people who say what they think by presenting concepts, mockups and other assets, people who say what they think by shouting with CAPS, people who say what they think by posting plain, robotic text.

No matter how you write that no one give a crap. You could post here, right now, whole project structure with graphics, code, ideas, detailed informations and plan for advertising... and still no one would give a crap, and actually most of people would whine that you "did that wrong", you "change that, so its now suck", bla bla bla...

As for me, yes, I have a point, and its actually funny that some of you cant understand that some people actually know some stuff, even if its basic stuff.
Life is not end on Soldat, some people actually help with other games with similar situation, some of us actually make game by our self, some of us actually work for money creating game assets. Im spending lots time helping smaller devs with stuff, especially in android app/games. Im doing my own stuff too, I spend lots of time helping running my father workshop that, trust me, its harder than making a game. I had with me few courses of marketing and planing, mostly because I want to finish few of my projects. Its not much, its not stricte related to games, but it helped me a lot for past years.

So yeah, I dont mind having such attitude, because I think I know what Im talking about, especially when we talk here about basic stuff, that you dont really need any course, its a matter of backing up few steps and see this situation from other, wider perspective.

Also Im not forcing anyone to do anything, that the difference, Im not trying to put on anyone my ideas. Im repeating the same thing over and over: Make a proper plan, make it public to community to discuss, ask for community help, look for help in other places, focus on getting new players, not petting old ones, unify and polish look of game, implement basic stats system that every multiplayer game today need. The End.

Im not even forcing devs to use any specific graphic style, Im not forcing on them anything, Im just pointing obvious things that everyone see but no one want to talk about, is it rude? F yeah, but its not my fault, Im just saying what they did/didnt do, everyone can see that, but no one give a crap.

Offline SneS

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Re: Devlog update (2017-10-08) poll, soldat banner, background discussions..
« Reply #31 on: December 03, 2017, 01:02:57 pm »
Release date is still December 21?

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: Devlog update (2017-10-08) poll, soldat banner, background discussions..
« Reply #32 on: December 03, 2017, 02:52:18 pm »
goddamn Akinaro, even if you have a point I would suggest you work on how you get that point across, the "you are retarded, i know everything, you know nothing, do as i say" attitude never convinced anyone

Heh, I've been ignoring his posts entirely for a while now. Way too much effort to filter wheat from the chaff, which is unfortunate because it does seem like there are some good points buried in there somewhere.

Release date is still December 21?

I've asked Shoozza about this earlier and he hasn't given a straight answer yet, though at least he's aware of the concerns about releasing on that date.


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Online Mayhem

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Re: Devlog update (2017-10-08) poll, soldat banner, background discussions..
« Reply #33 on: December 07, 2017, 05:07:40 pm »
Any news? It's 2 weeks till deadline and we still didn't get any significant information. Don't treat this community like a shit.

See you next year.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 05:10:00 pm by Mayhem »

Offline Toxic Avenger

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Re: Devlog update (2017-10-08) poll, soldat banner, background discussions..
« Reply #34 on: December 08, 2017, 10:33:00 am »
Akinaro, your posts are too long. Wtf man.
"It's obvious you don't rly get it". Oh please, you're full of shit. Of course devs don't put 100% time on graphics, but even 10% would be too much. It's obvious you're just a silly child fascinated by colours, glitter and confetti  [pigtail]

What?! How could that possibly happen? It's a damn 2D game. A set of pictures those change their orientation. Besides, what do you want to keep it compatible with? Soldat eats like 65 MB RAM. A random smarthphone has 2 GB of RAM. PCs have at least 512 MB and if the trend continues in next 2 year they will extinct. Should we really targeting these people? Less than 0.02% of all Steam players?
You assume everyone has a decent computer and a smartphone. Meh. Let's disregard poor people!

I'm sure it's been mentioned; modding and mapmaking is harder since the resolution-upgrade.

Offline Moroes

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Offline paintZoom

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Re: Devlog update (2017-10-08) poll, soldat banner, background discussions..
« Reply #36 on: December 08, 2017, 05:16:46 pm »
nuclear war is gonna take place before we see the next soldat  release lol

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: Devlog update (2017-10-08) poll, soldat banner, background discussions..
« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2017, 08:23:56 pm »
Posting this mini-"devlog" here on behalf of Shoozza (talked to him on Discord):

Little progress is being made at the moment for a number of reasons, so there isn't enough to write a devlog about. A devlog will be posted whenever there is some progress. Though there was work done to fix some of the server-side exploits, and he also "played with team mute commands". So there's that.


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Offline Nedi

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Re: Devlog update (2017-10-08) poll, soldat banner, background discussions..
« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2017, 11:56:02 am »
I think it's high time to have a proper countdown
http://soldatonsteamitsreallyhappening.soldat.space/

Offline SneS

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