Author Topic: Current WM  (Read 14864 times)

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Offline ginn

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Current WM
« on: December 12, 2017, 12:13:18 pm »
Why haven't you responded to my PM about weapon balancing? And fixing nade/med kits?

I've spent several hours on making a weapons mod, I've had private and public servers, hosted by Helloer an Azwraith, and even a gather channel (I tried to get it into the official channel, but I was ignored by Falcon and darDar for months, until I gave up). I even tried to set up an unofficial weapons balance team, which consisted of people I didn't particularly like, simply because I still respect their ability in their game and that they can provide valuable input.
I've put in time to try to get people to test out the WM I created, which most of them actually liked it, making them feel like they're back to 1.4.2.
I haven't done the balancing by simple inaccurate maths, I've tested it, on moving dummys/shooters, and in "competitive" play.

I'm experienced in soldat with knowledge about how the game works ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8q-VM9410U , how old bink worked), I've CHANGED THE SOLDAT META ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxaH8dxk-Kw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYKYD1YITZ0 ), which sparked some discussion about banning/making it impossible to use movement techniques (no I didn't invent them, but I made them work in CTF).

I was seemingly one of the only people who even noticed that nade/med kit spawns changed, a change much for the worse.

YET... You ignore me and my input.
I'm guessing you're still going to let naive darDar do the WM... Who already completely botched it once. His wm isn't just simply bad, it's laughably bad, it looks like a joke. AK having bink making it practically useless, because darDar isn't knowledgeable enough about the game to know how old and new bink works.
On his naivety, he believes mp5 should be rewarded for HSes, despite the fact that you can't aim for headshots with the inaccuracy the gun has. He doesn't account for the eating and inaccuracy in the netcode when he's hypothesizing for a WM. HE IS NAIVE. He's even a newbie to the game.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 07:54:54 am by darDar »

Offline homerofgods

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Re: Re: Devlog update (2017-12-10) Steam release moved to January, flood fixes
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2017, 01:34:55 pm »
Getting your points across by talking negative about others isn't exactly helping your cause.

Can't you upload some demos of people playing with your WM?

Offline ginn

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Re: Re: Devlog update (2017-12-10) Steam release moved to January, flood fixes
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2017, 11:58:40 pm »
Getting your points across by talking negative about others isn't exactly helping your cause.

Can't you upload some demos of people playing with your WM?
I don't care anymore if the game dies. It would be nice to be able to play the game again, but this is ultimately for the game, not for me.
If they want it dead, with shit tier balancing, then they can go ahead. They should however at least reply and tell me that they want a shit WM.

I don't save some demos for over a year.

This same shit has happened multiple times, where I had a high quality stream, but they choose a 20p streamer instead (you literally couldn't see the soldats on it).
Some time later, I had to step in for some finals game, and so I provided a high quality stream, with all the layouts necessary. People actually liked it, even though they were so hostile against it before that.

Pretty much everyone who works with soldat, who actually has power, never do anything properly, they half-ass everything. I don't like half-assing, and I guess that's why they don't like my prepositions, because they're of higher quality than they want.
That's what they want, a half-assed game. I'm sure there were plenty of more people like me, and helloer, who would do a lot of work for the game, but the "leaders" just don't want that kind of effort put into the game.

You're in the beta team, but I'm sure you've really never done anything for the game, so you have no idea how stuck up these shitheads are.

Offline Mayhem

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Re: Re: Devlog update (2017-12-10) Steam release moved to January, flood fixes
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2017, 04:10:07 am »
ginn, where can I download your WM? I would like to test it, probably never did it before

Offline Raged`

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Re: Re: Devlog update (2017-12-10) Steam release moved to January, flood fixes
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2017, 08:53:17 am »
Getting your points across by talking negative about others isn't exactly helping your cause.

Can't you upload some demos of people playing with your WM?
I don't care anymore if the game dies. It would be nice to be able to play the game again, but this is ultimately for the game, not for me.
If they want it dead, with shit tier balancing, then they can go ahead. They should however at least reply and tell me that they want a shit WM.

I don't save some demos for over a year.

This same shit has happened multiple times, where I had a high quality stream, but they choose a 20p streamer instead (you literally couldn't see the soldats on it).
Some time later, I had to step in for some finals game, and so I provided a high quality stream, with all the layouts necessary. People actually liked it, even though they were so hostile against it before that.

Pretty much everyone who works with soldat, who actually has power, never do anything properly, they half-ass everything. I don't like half-assing, and I guess that's why they don't like my prepositions, because they're of higher quality than they want.
That's what they want, a half-assed game. I'm sure there were plenty of more people like me, and helloer, who would do a lot of work for the game, but the "leaders" just don't want that kind of effort put into the game.

You're in the beta team, but I'm sure you've really never done anything for the game, so you have no idea how stuck up these shitheads are.
i've talked about this with Shoozza couple months ago actually.I agreed all you've said.Ithink he could do some changes about it

Offline darDar

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Re: Re: Devlog update (2017-12-10) Steam release moved to January, flood fixes
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2017, 11:12:40 am »
@qb` pm me on IRC or Discord

regrding the trailer: we should really reach out to Tito/Control - he's probably the best and knows how to present soldat well. He can record in 4K and has great knowledge about soldat in general.
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Offline ginn

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Re: Re: Devlog update (2017-12-10) Steam release moved to January, flood fixes
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2017, 11:29:46 am »
ginn, where can I download your WM? I would like to test it, probably never did it before
I've pasted it a few times, but I can do it again

Code: [Select]
[Info]
Name=Default mod
Version=1.7.1

[Desert Eagles]
Damage=1.65
FireInterval=24
Ammo=7
ReloadTime=70
Speed=19
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.0
BulletSpread=0.0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0176
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[HK MP5]
Damage=0.905
FireInterval=6
Ammo=32
ReloadTime=105
Speed=18.9
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0.09
Recoil=0
Push=0.0112
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[Ak-74]
Damage=0.95
FireInterval=12
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=165
Speed=27
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.01615
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.95

[Steyr AUG]
Damage=0.615
FireInterval=7
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=125
Speed=26
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.006
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.254
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.95

[Spas-12]
Damage=1.05
FireInterval=34
Ammo=7
ReloadTime=165
Speed=14
BulletStyle=3
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0.8
Recoil=0
Push=0.015
InheritedVelocity=0.588
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[Ruger 77]
Damage=2.185
FireInterval=42
Ammo=4
ReloadTime=90
Speed=33
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=12
MovementAcc=0.0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.012
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.245
ModifierChest=0.84
ModifierLegs=0.84

[M79]
Damage=1550
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=178
Speed=10.7
BulletStyle=4
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.036
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=1

[Barret M82A1]
Damage=4.45
FireInterval=180
Ammo=10
ReloadTime=70
Speed=55
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=19
Bink=65
MovementAcc=0.05
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.018
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[FN Minimi]
Damage=0.82
FireInterval=9
Ammo=50
ReloadTime=250
Speed=24.6
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.015136
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.95

[XM214 Minigun]
Damage=0.333
FireInterval=3
Ammo=100
ReloadTime=360
Speed=29
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=15
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.0
BulletSpread=0.3
Recoil=0
Push=0.0104
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.85

[USSOCOM]
Damage=1.15
FireInterval=10
Ammo=12
ReloadTime=60
Speed=19
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.02
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.95

[Combat Knife]
Damage=2150
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=3
Speed=6
BulletStyle=11
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.12
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Chainsaw]
Damage=50
FireInterval=2
Ammo=200
ReloadTime=110
Speed=8
BulletStyle=11
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0028
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=0.9

[M72 LAW]
Damage=1550
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=300
Speed=23
BulletStyle=12
StartUpTime=13
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.028
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Punch]
Damage=330
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=3
Speed=5
BulletStyle=6
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Grenade]
Damage=1500
FireInterval=80
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=20
Speed=5
BulletStyle=2
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0
InheritedVelocity=1
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[Stationary Gun]
Damage=1.8
FireInterval=10
Ammo=100
ReloadTime=366
Speed=36
BulletStyle=14
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0088
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.85

[Flamer]
Damage=19
FireInterval=6
Ammo=200
ReloadTime=5
Speed=10.5
BulletStyle=5
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.016
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Rambo Bow]
Damage=12
FireInterval=10
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=25
Speed=21
BulletStyle=7
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0148
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Flamed Arrows]
Damage=8
FireInterval=10
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=39
Speed=18
BulletStyle=8
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9
Replace weapons.ini with that, but back up your original weapons.ini

Offline Shoozza

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Re: Re: Devlog update (2017-12-10) Steam release moved to January, flood fixes
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2017, 02:34:59 pm »
@duz I remembered there is a new manual on github: https://github.com/Soldat/manual maybe look into that first
@Nedi you are playing with fire. Working in a toxic environment isn't something appealing to new and current devs.
@ginn if i don't reply after a few days it is always recommended to just send another pm. I might have planned to reply later but then forgot about it. No need for drama or to get angry about it. That said I cannot rate any WMs (maybe changes to knife if anything) and I need some help here. Since I heard complains about the current WM I'd like to know what should be done to make the community happy. darDar has probably some opinion on that as well. If I'd like to not be the person people go to and ask about WM changes. What I expect is that the person who handles the WM should have no bias and handles the WM in an understandable and calm way. If there is a need for better tooling to understand and/or test WM better that would be the point I would be contacted.
@CheeSeMan. I asked evhO if he could do a trailer because i liked one of his previous trailers and he was so kind to agree. Assuming that you need to know a lot about the game to make a good trailer is probably not correct. Like I wrote: MM wanted to do an competition, I'll ask him again if he could post it.
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Offline Mayhem

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Re: Re: Devlog update (2017-12-10) Steam release moved to January, flood fixes
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2017, 03:02:56 pm »
Thanks ginn. I've just tested it and I have to say that I have mixed feelings. All autos except minimi looks fine (maybe people will start using AK again). Minimi is still OP imo. Ruger looks like totally useless weapon - I know that it is OP atm, but killing with 3 bullets is just too slow compared to the rest of the weapons. And making barret even better? Don't know how to nerf it, but with this situation at pubs would be even worse than it is now. All the others looks good - pm me if you need people for tests.
Btw, I miss good old times when bink existed and you had to push up finger to aim properly, that was game for real men.

Offline paintZoom

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Re: Re: Devlog update (2017-12-10) Steam release moved to January, flood fixes
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2017, 05:59:10 pm »
wth!
no insta law???
the time window betwen takin out law and firin is too high
by the time the law fires the enemy is already 1 cannonball away .. totally not fun brah

Offline ginn

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Re: Re: Devlog update (2017-12-10) Steam release moved to January, flood fixes
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2017, 11:00:48 pm »
@ginn if i don't reply after a few days it is always recommended to just send another pm. I might have planned to reply later but then forgot about it. No need for drama or to get angry about it. That said I cannot rate any WMs (maybe changes to knife if anything) and I need some help here. Since I heard complains about the current WM I'd like to know what should be done to make the community happy. darDar has probably some opinion on that as well. If I'd like to not be the person people go to and ask about WM changes. What I expect is that the person who handles the WM should have no bias and handles the WM in an understandable and calm way. If there is a need for better tooling to understand and/or test WM better that would be the point I would be contacted.
I've been trying to get this WM somewhere for over a year, it's tested and mostly done. At this point I felt like Spas was the only thing that could be too weak, the rest of the weapons seemed very balanced.

Thanks ginn. I've just tested it and I have to say that I have mixed feelings. All autos except minimi looks fine (maybe people will start using AK again). Minimi is still OP imo. Ruger looks like totally useless weapon - I know that it is OP atm, but killing with 3 bullets is just too slow compared to the rest of the weapons. And making barret even better? Don't know how to nerf it, but with this situation at pubs would be even worse than it is now. All the others looks good - pm me if you need people for tests.
Btw, I miss good old times when bink existed and you had to push up finger to aim properly, that was game for real men.
AK and minimi had their bullet speeds swapped. Minimi I remember was on my watch list, but it seemed to play out fine, it was a bit difficult to wield. AK should have the fastest TTK, possibly together with Steyr (but steyr requires HSes, look damage modifiers), this was about a year ago though.
Ruger was tested to be fine, since it has no movement acc you can fire accurately. It kills in 2 headshots, like it was in the past. From what I remember, in testing it was very strong, so I had to tone it down a bit.

The barrett is underpowered, so whatever little tweak to make it more competitive is good. Publics will just have a script to set a maximum on amount of barrett users.
I think I buffed M79 in reload/interval too.

This MIGHT not be the final version, I've moved computer, and HDDs, and the servers I had the wm on are also down so I can't double check on there.

wth!
no insta law???
the time window betwen takin out law and firin is too high
by the time the law fires the enemy is already 1 cannonball away .. totally not fun brah
I actually experimented with instant law, which was a little bit fun... But, it was a little bit awkward, so I changed it back to default.
One of my main purposes was to avoid that annoying "law no fire" bug.

Offline Furai

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Re: Re: Devlog update (2017-12-10) Steam release moved to January, flood fixes
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2017, 02:21:22 am »
I've been trying to get this WM somewhere for over a year, it's tested and mostly done. At this point I felt like Spas was the only thing that could be too weak, the rest of the weapons seemed very balanced.
Why not get in touch with gather staff and get your WM on servers? At least few of them? Get feedback there?
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Offline ginn

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Re: Re: Devlog update (2017-12-10) Steam release moved to January, flood fixes
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2017, 06:23:56 am »
I've been trying to get this WM somewhere for over a year, it's tested and mostly done. At this point I felt like Spas was the only thing that could be too weak, the rest of the weapons seemed very balanced.
Why not get in touch with gather staff and get your WM on servers? At least few of them? Get feedback there?
What about you actually read what you comment on first?

Offline Mayhem

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Re: Re: Devlog update (2017-12-10) Steam release moved to January, flood fixes
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2017, 01:13:02 pm »
Ok, I get it. I thought that these headshot settings don't work properly but if so, positions of players on map would be important again, which I like. I hope someone will take this WM into consideration while relasing next version - it seems to be a small fix which can make gameplay more interesting.

Offline ginn

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Re: Re: Devlog update (2017-12-10) Steam release moved to January, flood fixes
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2017, 02:18:22 pm »
Ok, I get it. I thought that these headshot settings don't work properly but if so, positions of players on map would be important again, which I like. I hope someone will take this WM into consideration while relasing next version - it seems to be a small fix which can make gameplay more interesting.
They don't work properly, and some hitboxes are broken. The feet hitboxes, for example, hitting at the right angle, can make you go unharmed or survive even barrett shots. The feet hitboxes are also tiny, which is why I've set damage modifiers to be body+feet, and only head. The head hit box is actually quite large, almost covering half the torso, iirc.
With ruger, and possibly steyr, you can head shot when you shoot from straight below, that I believe having to do with bulletspeed. However, a bullet can't register twice at least, or so I think, i.e. it can't register as a feet shot and then also as a head shot.

Falcon said wm had to wait because he was gonna remake the weapon system, around a year ago, but that never happened.

Offline machina

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Re: Re: Devlog update (2017-12-10) Steam release moved to January, flood fixes
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2017, 06:42:44 pm »
wth!
no insta law???
the time window betwen takin out law and firin is too high
by the time the law fires the enemy is already 1 cannonball away .. totally not fun brah
This actually makes a lot of fucking sense because LAW is not for killing at a fucking melee distance! Because wait time to fire was reduced LAW become OP deadly on every distance. You wanna kill a guy with a knife? Well, fuck you because he has a god damn LAW and ain't have to wait to throw a knife powerfully enough to hit you.

Offline duz

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Re: Re: Devlog update (2017-12-10) Steam release moved to January, flood fixes
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2017, 01:32:57 pm »
USSOCOM is the biggest joke of these 'new' WMs (after 2012).
Barrett has become n00b friendly a lot time ago even not being OP. You should stop adding weird specs to it and remove the delay, add inaccuracy while in the air, bink and aimpunch. You shouldn't be untouchable with it.

Ruger always shows how nonsense the WM and the community is (soldatforums guys, not the SCTFL people). If there's any power, It's OP, if you remove this power, it's useless. The same goes for Barrett without delay. You can't leave it without delay because a standard sniper rifle is too strong for the newbies to deal with.


This actually makes a lot of fucking sense because LAW is not for killing at a fucking melee distance! Because wait time to fire was reduced LAW become OP deadly on every distance. You wanna kill a guy with a knife? Well, fuck you because he has a god damn LAW and ain't have to wait to throw a knife powerfully enough to hit you.
Actually the LAW wasn't OP without delay (earlier versions). It takes a time to stop, crouch and fire. This is time enough to someone throw a knife precisely. No one plays crouched and not flying, all the time. There's no such advantage.


regrding the trailer: we should really reach out to Tito/Control - he's probably the best and knows how to present soldat well. He can record in 4K and has great knowledge about soldat in general.
'Anyone' can record in 4K using the NVidia DSR Factor (there's an AMD similar feature).
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Offline jrgp

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Re: Re: Devlog update (2017-12-10) Steam release moved to January, flood fixes
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2017, 02:26:45 pm »
Barrett has become n00b friendly a lot time ago even not being OP. You should stop adding weird specs to it and remove the delay, add inaccuracy while in the air, bink and aimpunch. You shouldn't be untouchable with it.

This would largely make it unusable.
There are other worlds than these

Offline duz

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Re: Re: Devlog update (2017-12-10) Steam release moved to January, flood fixes
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2017, 05:44:49 pm »
This would largely make it unusable.
Certain inaccuracy, not completely inaccurate.
Just make it harder while you're in the air.

Nowadays you're a lot more untouchable with Barrett than before where you had bink and maybe a less accurate Barrett.
I remember v0r and {EF} Sneaky Bastard (one of the best Soldat player ever), both europeans, playing TM+Survival (main brazilian gamemode) against brazilian teams, 2006 or 2007. 3 Barretts or 2 Barretts and 1 M79 against them using automatic weapons. It was for sure easier to kill the Barretts than nowadays because you were less untouchable. Now you're the one hit one kill god with it. Keep adding delays, you won't fix anything, just ruining the fun, the game.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 05:57:13 pm by duz »
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Offline ginn

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Re: Re: Devlog update (2017-12-10) Steam release moved to January, flood fixes
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2017, 03:23:49 am »
This would largely make it unusable.
Certain inaccuracy, not completely inaccurate.
Just make it harder while you're in the air.

Nowadays you're a lot more untouchable with Barrett than before where you had bink and maybe a less accurate Barrett.
I remember v0r and {EF} Sneaky Bastard (one of the best Soldat player ever), both europeans, playing TM+Survival (main brazilian gamemode) against brazilian teams, 2006 or 2007. 3 Barretts or 2 Barretts and 1 M79 against them using automatic weapons. It was for sure easier to kill the Barretts than nowadays because you were less untouchable. Now you're the one hit one kill god with it. Keep adding delays, you won't fix anything, just ruining the fun, the game.
The game was dominated by Barrett, and only heavy spray and hard work could beat it, and obviously only on open maps.
Nowadays barrett is way less useful, it actually almost never see any use. Most of the time an M79 can do the job that you'd consider picking barrett for.

If you could not shoot mid air, which you by the way have to prone to be accurate for, barrett would be completely useless. You'd have to pray for good RNG every shot, and every kill you got wouldn't be based on your skill, just RNG.

I assume you think you can just lay down and camp with barrett? Nah, that makes you largely worthless for your team.

Offline Viral

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Re: Re: Devlog update (2017-12-10) Steam release moved to January, flood fixes
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2017, 05:48:54 am »
You don't need to lie down to shoot mid air with barrett, just the firing angle is different - I remember being pretty consistent with it when i played weapons regularly.
I don't know about inaccurcy, but i don't think being able to shoot pinpoint shoots when getting sprayed already for x seconds is fair. You should be in a bigger disadvantage if u let auto-users get that close to you

Offline Akinaro

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Re: Re: Devlog update (2017-12-10) Steam release moved to January, flood fixes
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2017, 06:17:28 am »
Heh... typical conversation about WM made by few hard-headed "pros", that can spend days and days stripping any WM suggestion to tinny little parts that at the end have no F connection to actual WM...

There is no such force on earth that would make you all happy. If one guy suggest something, you can be sure that 2 people behind him will be triggered like feminist in some demonstration. Shouting and telling you that you dont know anything and give you 1000 examples why their opinion is better than yours.

Not to mention that its obvious that WM is crappy if you always choose person/team that is biased as F in terms of some gun and game tactics. If you really want balanced WM choose two people that have opposed suggestions regarding balance. Or you know, stop nursing old players like little kids, and just focus what typical players in public servers want...
Because when you look at it from the side, you totally dont give a flying crap about fun that game need to give, and you focus stricte on specific scenarios that YOU personally play in specific gather sessions with people that have similar taste like you... How the hell you could make good WM in such conditions?
Because maybe you forgot, but game dont end at gathers where bunch of oldfags plays. You dont want to think about future players and public games where people play, you know, for fun? Because they are "noobs", and their skill end mostly at knowing basic game mechanic, map layout and observation of other players movement. Gun is just a tool.

So yeah, you can spend rest of your life discussing about every changes anyone suggest. That just show that your game skill are purely based on habits. Your brains just can handle idea of "refreshing" memory and adapting to new settings, because you know, "skilled" person would deal with it and learn how to be good with those new settings. Its like you would be afraid that you would suck in game after changes, but you forgot that EVERYONE else would need to get used to it so "there would be balance in the force".

Not to mention that people who cry most about WM dont really play in public so, you know when you play in gathers or your own servers, what is stopping you from getting your own WM?
Make some separated standardized WM for gathers, where you can keep all settings that you like.



As for mentioned suggestion them self:

1. No, LAW is not OP, as Duz said, you need to stop and crouch to shoot it, and for most of time its "shoot and forget" weapon that you can use just once, because you need to wait long time to reload. And f you compare it to knife(jezus...) you can pick it up and use it again in less than second. So you see, there is nice balance here. No need to cry about anything.

2. No Barret would not be useless if it would have crappy stats at mid-air. This is actually how it should always work. And just because of that it doesnt mean that all you can do with it is camping, its really crappy reasoning, because no matter how it work, that type of weapon will always be used for camping by some people, that the feature of Sniper rifle in any game(even if Barret is more of anti-material rifle rather than sniper rifle, but that not the point)
If Barret would be nerfed down in mid air, it would not be used so often in every game, because right now no matter where someone is(air ground) he can nail you down and it dont need any skill to do that.
If Barret would be grounded, you could not just fly back from enemy waiting for reload to shoot him again, you would need to land to actually have chance to hit him, where any spray gun would balance that by being able to shoot you down when you are flying. Simple and efficient balance.

3. Ruger was always broken because it sit between sniper rifle and spray gun. If you make it more OP people will cry that there is no point of Barret, if you make it too week people start crying that its too week. There is no real "middle ground" for that gun.
All you can really do is just keep it less deadly than Barret, because keeping it weaker is only way to keep it at all without removing it totally.
For me best balance would be: Two-three shoots to kill(in normal scenario head shoot should not kill you, but seriously bleed you out), good amount of recoil to compensate this high damage, tad longer reload than all spray guns and small nerfing aim in mid-air so it will not end as replacement for Barret there.

Offline duz

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2017, 04:31:26 pm »
The game was dominated by Barrett, and only heavy spray and hard work could beat it, and obviously only on open maps.
Nowadays barrett is way less useful, it actually almost never see any use. Most of the time an M79 can do the job that you'd consider picking barrett for.

If you could not shoot mid air, which you by the way have to prone to be accurate for, barrett would be completely useless. You'd have to pray for good RNG every shot, and every kill you got wouldn't be based on your skill, just RNG.

I assume you think you can just lay down and camp with barrett? Nah, that makes you largely worthless for your team.

I can't remember that dominance. Not on TNL, ESL, SCTFL and famous public servers like U13. Not even ESL 1v1 was dominated by Barretts.

I don't know if it sounds different in english but (again):
Quote
Certain inaccuracy, not completely inaccurate.
Just make it harder while you're in the air.

plus #1: think about this situation and REMOVE the delay.
Looks like an useful weapon to me, without weirdness.

+

plus #2:
Again and again. I was playing today on Zabijaka! CTF server, testing a new interface and all I said about being untouchable happend a lot of times.
People with Barrett losing their hats in mid-air and being able to hit me with an incredible precision. IT IS A J-O-K-E.


Suggestions:
1. Remove the Barrett delay. Add bink and makes it a little bit harder in mid-air. Not impossible to master, just harder to get the right 'alignment' to shoot precisely.
The game already have a crosshair precision indicator (it should be an indicator :D), so it won't be random.
You can also add another image to the crosshair to indicate precision, like a red point or red overlay over your crosshair (it would be customizable), I don't know, just an idea.
2. Or you can keep the delay in mid-air and remove it if you're on the ground. Just don't forget the untouchable thing.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 04:55:15 pm by duz »
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Offline ginn

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2017, 05:13:52 pm »
Unless you prone in mid air your shot won't be accurate, you'll have to rely on RNG to hit anything at longer ranges. It is fine as it is now, having now delay would make it real cancer, with really no way beating it in 1v1.
If they were binked and still hit, they were either lucky, or cheating. Then there's obviously also ping to take into account, they won't be affected by bink until after the ping delay.

Offline duz

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2017, 06:58:02 pm »
Unless you prone in mid air your shot won't be accurate, you'll have to rely on RNG to hit anything at longer ranges. It is fine as it is now, having now delay would make it real cancer, with really no way beating it in 1v1.
If they were binked and still hit, they were either lucky, or cheating. Then there's obviously also ping to take into account, they won't be affected by bink until after the ping delay.

vs

The game was dominated by Barrett, and only heavy spray and hard work could beat it, and obviously only on open maps.
Nowadays barrett is way less useful, it actually almost never see any use. Most of the time an M79 can do the job that you'd consider picking barrett for.

If you could not shoot mid air, which you by the way have to prone to be accurate for, barrett would be completely useless. You'd have to pray for good RNG every shot, and every kill you got wouldn't be based on your skill, just RNG.

I assume you think you can just lay down and camp with barrett? Nah, that makes you largely worthless for your team.

I think you just hate this weapon and that's it.  ::)
Your posts simply don't make any sense.

'it actually almost never see any use. Most of the time an M79 can do the job that you'd consider picking barrett for'

but if you change it: (I'm talking about a NERF not a BUFF. LOL)

'would make it real cancer'

I don't know if you think Barrett is OP or useless and what's your suggestion to improve it.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 07:03:10 pm by duz »
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Offline ginn

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2017, 01:21:52 am »
Barrett is underpowered, but removing start up time would make it terribly OP in publics, and in the competitive scene.
It used to be OP when it had no start up time, that's why it got start up time.

Offline duz

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2017, 02:17:31 am »
Barrett is underpowered, but removing start up time would make it terribly OP in publics, and in the competitive scene.
It used to be OP when it had no start up time, that's why it got start up time.

Looks like I'm saying 'remove the delay and it's ok'. But that's not true.
I agree that removing the delay would add a lot of power to nowaday's Barrett, that's why I've suggested other things to balance.

First of all. Why I suggest removing the delay? Because it's weird for a Barrett. You shouldn't see it like a monster.
The combination of these things should provide a good balance.

You were talking about ping. Dude... So let's consider the ping and rebalance M79?
The weapon that provides the strongest peekers advantage in Soldat.
Everybody uses it and makes a huge advantage on short maps.
People are killing others even after dead. All the time. It's the same for the bink. 100ms changes everything.
Maybe add delay? :) Nah.

« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 02:24:07 pm by duz »
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Offline CheeSeMan.

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2017, 06:53:21 am »
I really have never understood why we can not just have a WM intended for 3v3 and a WM mode intended for public servers... hell you could even have one for 1v1 if you really wanted.

Sure this is more for league/gather admins or server admins to decide but it removes a lot of headache from shoozza... in any case whatever the WM changes I hope dardar will add them to gather servers and ask for feedback.
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Offline paintZoom

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2017, 09:51:22 am »
MR.negative on visuals of the WM:

-socom has too many bullets  (looks like a machinegun)
-firin the law takes too much time  (hinders the combo capability) (less epicness)(weak against spawners)
-airborne player with Barret looks too "sharp" (example: visually no bink / moveacc plus "lucky")  fix: add ton of moveacc
-shotgun fire rate a Little too fast (reduces the "ohshitohshit" when u clickin and its not firing)
-AK (cmon its the good ol AK) it needs love  (maybe make it deal lot of damage and pierce a Little)  movielike
-minimi its lookin too "acurate" for a big gun

picky mode off- i really enjoy the WM these days and i see newer players do good with it so keep up on keepin up

Offline CheeSeMan.

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2017, 01:07:38 pm »
There is currently a new WM on gather servers, you can play gathers via joining soldat discord here: http://gather.soldat.pl/discord

I recommend anyone to join and give some feedback to dardar after you have played a few games!

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Offline machina

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #30 on: December 27, 2017, 04:02:12 pm »
There is currently a new WM on gather servers, you can play gathers via joining soldat discord here: http://gather.soldat.pl/discord

I recommend anyone to join and give some feedback to dardar after you have played a few games!
Is changelog for this "new" WM available anywhere? I want to compare constants.

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #31 on: December 29, 2017, 08:01:36 am »
There is currently a new WM on gather servers, you can play gathers via joining soldat discord here: http://gather.soldat.pl/discord

I recommend anyone to join and give some feedback to dardar after you have played a few games!
lmao
It's just damage numbers gone down, as if everything else was fine. AK still has bink, and it got more spread.

Shoozza has blindly given full control to darDar, like an idiot. I wish Falcon had stepped up his devving, because he was way more competent.

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #32 on: December 29, 2017, 02:27:23 pm »
WM 1.4.2 please

Offline Shoozza

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #33 on: December 29, 2017, 08:22:35 pm »
There is currently a new WM on gather servers, you can play gathers via joining soldat discord here: http://gather.soldat.pl/discord

I recommend anyone to join and give some feedback to dardar after you have played a few games!
lmao
It's just damage numbers gone down, as if everything else was fine. AK still has bink, and it got more spread.

Shoozza has blindly given full control to darDar, like an idiot. I wish Falcon had stepped up his devving, because he was way more competent.
I told you to discuss the matter with darDar. Someone has to do the WM.
You can vent your anger for not getting the lead position but insulting people isn't exactly the best way to show compentence.

@machina not sure if there are final numbers yet but there are tests pm darDar about it if you want to try stuff out.
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Offline darDar

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #34 on: December 29, 2017, 11:30:22 pm »
There is currently a new WM on gather servers, you can play gathers via joining soldat discord here: http://gather.soldat.pl/discord

I recommend anyone to join and give some feedback to dardar after you have played a few games!
Is changelog for this "new" WM available anywhere? I want to compare constants.

I'm not really a fan of having people discuss or debate a WM based on raw 'numbers' for various reasons. I'll announce and share the 'final' WM after testing was completed.

You can however test the current beta WM on our gather servers at: http://gather.soldat.pl/discord/
The WM is in place for 7 days now. There were 5 small updates made on the WM in that period. We got a channel on Discord to discuss. Anyone who's interested may join us there (pm me for access).

General Changes:


- overall lower damage
- remade the  ([AK74] AK-74)
- remade the ([Minigun] Minigun) from scratch

Most mechanics on the weapons remain the same.

I will post a full and detailed thread in a while including all changes.  [Bravoguy]

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Offline machina

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2017, 12:59:25 pm »
You can however test the current beta WM on our gather servers at: http://gather.soldat.pl/discord/
So the only way to try this WM out is to enter a gather where you get instantenously flamed by other players who gonna bitch about your skills?

I used to be voiced on #lrs and #soldat.realistic gathers but normal mode gathers are not within my cup of tea despite the fact I'm doing somewhat fine on publics. The thing is that realistic WM is made good as well for publics as for gathers. Normal mode WM isn't.

- overall lower damage
Does it mean Barret won't foot-kill anymore? Does it mean Ruger will require 3 shots to kill?

Offline ginn

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2017, 01:36:44 pm »
lmao
It's just damage numbers gone down, as if everything else was fine. AK still has bink, and it got more spread.

Shoozza has blindly given full control to darDar, like an idiot. I wish Falcon had stepped up his devving, because he was way more competent.
I told you to discuss the matter with darDar. Someone has to do the WM.
You can vent your anger for not getting the lead position but insulting people isn't exactly the best way to show compentence.

[/quote]
As I already told you, I've tried to work with darDar in the past, but that didn't work out. Also the fact that he wouldn't allow me to put in wm servers into the gather channel doesn't make it any better.
Just looking at the previous wm, you should know he's not competent enough.

Of course you could give me the leader position just like that, since I've already put in a lot of effort on a wm.

I made this wm suggestion over a year ago, and I had a wm gather open and a public open for a while (until I got tired of trying to drag people into it, and warnings for not being allowed to "advertise" about it in #soldat irc channel). That's plenty enough to show "competence", and plenty enough of work to get the leader position.
How did darDar get the leader position anyway? Payed his way into it by hosting servers? I mean it's good that somebody is willing to spend money on servers, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to give them power over the game development.

You too have already showed your "competence", as you've already been kicked out of the dev team once, that tells us a lot about it.

I'm not really a fan of having people discuss or debate a WM based on raw 'numbers' for various reasons. I'll announce and share the 'final' WM after testing was completed.
I've joined a server to see already. It's just lower damage numbers, even though spread is a pretty huge issue and changed how the game plays. You've even increased the spread, and AK still has self-bink.
Self-bink does no longer work like before, so you cannot put in self-bink into the game, since there's no way to control it other than simply stop shooting for a while (it also sets on really quickly).

I didn't look at ruger, but I assume it's even more broken OP now. You're legit going to kill the game by doing the wm this poorly.

The game had a total rework of the gun mechanics, and some of it was good, but a lot of it was bad. It needs a rework of gun mechanics, you cannot simply lower some damage numbers and believe it's going to be good.

Offline darDar

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #37 on: January 01, 2018, 02:04:21 am »
Quote
I didn't look at ruger, but I assume it's even more broken OP now. You're legit going to kill the game by doing the wm this poorly.

Everything you say is based on random allegations, coming from a biased POV. Being obsessed by ranting about the wm for the past 5+ years isn't helpful at all.

Quote
The game had a total rework of the gun mechanics, and some of it was good, but a lot of it was bad. It needs a rework of gun mechanics, you cannot simply lower some damage numbers and believe it's going to be good.
can you elaborate... which changes were good and which were bad and why? There weren't only 'damage numbers' lowered. You should actually test it and give feedback as many others did if you want your opinion/feedback to be taken into account.

I'm also not going to waste my time arguing with you if you keep your discussions on such a low level. FYI.

Ontopic;
There were already 6 revisions made on the new WM and it's pretty close to being done.
I'll make a post (probably this weekend) including the final  weapons.ini + changelog and be available for Q&A, testing and discussion there.
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Offline Shoozza

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #38 on: January 01, 2018, 02:41:42 pm »
You too have already showed your "competence", as you've already been kicked out of the dev team once, that tells us a lot about it.
Not sure why i need to repeat myself: Attacking people doesn't improve your standing here.

The fact that you always need to push back just shows that you cannot deal with criticism properly.
Somebody like that will not be able to handle community feedback in a useful way.

More so, if you believe that I'm incompetent you probably should just leave (why would you want to work for someone who is incompetent?).
But maybe you are just out of ideas for proper arguments and ranting is all that is left.

Either way just like darDar said ranting isn't helpful.
As you can see darDar will take your feedback into account.
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Offline ginn

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #39 on: January 01, 2018, 07:09:21 pm »
Everything you say is based on random allegations, coming from a biased POV.
No, it's not.
Everyone knows I was not allowed to get the wm servers onto #soldat, and you started hiding away and ignoring my pms after a while.

The fact that you always need to push back just shows that you cannot deal with criticism properly.
What?
Telling you that you, and darDar are incompetent is just telling the truth. It's really bad for soldat that you two have any power over the development of soldat.

Somebody like that will not be able to handle community feedback in a useful way.
Except I've already done it, and taken suggestions and feedback into account, over a year ago. That was how the wm I made became so fine tuned.
Of course I ignored suggestions and feedback that was somewhat non-sensical... Like adding self-bink to autos, because they wanted it to work like it did in the past. Movement acc and bink have changed, so you can no longer use it.

Also darDars naivety to believe headshots should be rewarded despite the fact that the game has excessive rng spread.

More so, if you believe that I'm incompetent you probably should just leave (why would you want to work for someone who is incompetent?)
You think you have that much influence on people? No wonder nobody wanted to work with you. What kind of logic are you using to believe I'd be working "for you" if I did the wm? You seem to have a huge ego.
IF the game was in a playable state I'd continue to play, but the game has already been broken past to point of being playable, by a horrible wm, and change in spawn mechanics.

I haven't played the game in a long time, and only occasionally played a few matches over the last few years, mostly out of nostalgia (and wanting to play in the last SCTFL).

But maybe you are just out of ideas for proper arguments and ranting is all that is left.
Exactly, there's no reasoning with you two. Ignoring PMs for weeks. Asking to be contacted on a certain platform, to then proceed with ignoring.
Communication has been impossible, and you may proceed with killing soldat.

As you can see darDar will take your feedback into account.
I can say that I'll spend ?1mil into soldat development, that doesn't mean it's true. I wont. The difference here is, I guess, that darDar is a liar, while I don't feel the need to lie in this conversation.
I've had this conversation with darDar in the past, and he has his mind set, and his idea of the wm is very naive. Just look at how AK still has/had self-bink. He'll basically "work with me", and take my feedback, if I echo exactly what he wants.

What's a little weird, is how there was no wm "builds" before I messaged Shoozza telling him that darDar does not take wm seriously, since if he did, there'd be wm servers. Obviously I got no response from that pm, per usual.
Suddenly, a few days later, there's this "experimental wm" on the servers... I wonder what happened.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2018, 08:08:28 pm by ginn »

Offline Shoozza

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #40 on: January 02, 2018, 01:16:33 am »
@ginn: I see no value in further continuing this discussion either.

Therefore: A reminder for anyone posting after this post:
Any attacks on people will result in a ban. Such ill behavior has no place in this community.
Posts with attacks as well as offtopic content will get deleted.

Please discuss the changes to the wm in a objective and productive way.
Avoid allegations and do not derail this thread by posting off topic content.
The wm lead position is not up to discussion and considered off topic.

Please refrain from posting if your post would get deleted anyways.

@darDar please excuse me for not defending the attacks on you and ignore the post above instead (it is off topic anyways).
Thanks
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Offline CheeSeMan.

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #41 on: January 02, 2018, 06:14:34 am »
@Machina

Yes some older players do get mad, but with the way the gather admins have made the discord gather that it attempts to balance the teams it is a good time to try. The gather admins have been open to newer players and have been giving cooldowns in the range of 3 to 4 days to players who whine or insult people due to skill. Also I do not see another way to test a new WM, if it was on a public server no one would provide feedback. Here you can test and pm darDar immediately.

@Everyone

darDar has been very open to feedback, he has already made several adjustments that were pushed mostly from the feedback. Yes, he does have an overall goal in mind for the WM but I think if you do not have an idea that you stick to then you can't really make a good WM.
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Offline ginn

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #42 on: January 03, 2018, 12:28:37 am »
@Everyone

darDar has been very open to feedback, he has already made several adjustments that were pushed mostly from the feedback. Yes, he does have an overall goal in mind for the WM but I think if you do not have an idea that you stick to then you can't really make a good WM.
Lets put that to the test.


one thing to keep in mind, is that some weapons may need some more distinct features, where damage modifiers can be seen as a weakness or a strength.
Pretty much I'll just be repeating myself for like the 5th time.

I'll start with the autos

mp5 is so inaccurate that it makes no sense to reward headshots. though the damage modifier is quite similar for head/body+feet shot, which does appropriately makeup for that inaccuracy. The extra head damage modifier may be beneficial to when you attack from above. Weirdly enough, despite losing 19% damage, it's not gotten increased clip size.
It's weakness is it's range, to punish it further with a 1.0 damage modifier across all parts of the body may be too much.

Ak-47 Is not making much sense. There's no way to control self-bink, other than to stop shooting for a while. Bink and movement acc does not work like this anymore https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8q-VM9410U , you cannot reset the bink between shots.
Within 10 bullets it's as inaccurate as mp5, which means it has to significantly lower it's rate of fire. Basically, AK is a close combat weapon, since it cannot compete at longer ranges due to how slow it's rate of fire has to be to be accurate.
I cannot see where it fits in, it's so niche that it's obsolete.
It even has movement acc, which means it cannot be used well while moving. That means it cannot be used for ranged (steyr beats it), and cannot be used for close ranged.

Steyr
It's the most accurate weapon, and seemingly has the shortest TTK, without any real disadvantages. It's clip size has been increased by more than it's damage has been decreased. Previous version it was already overpowered, with these changes it must be even more dominant.
It has minimal movement acc, which means it's dominant in all aspects. I do not believe mp5 has a shorter TTK, which means it's effectively making mp5 obeslete.
The damage modifier differences are a bit bigger than that of mp5 (but same as AK), but it's inaccuracy even when standing still means you can't actually aim for a headshot, it's up to RNG if you hit a headshot or a bod/feet shot.

Minimi
It's accurate if you're standing still, or proning mid air. However, there's no place in soldat where you can stand still and shoot, you're at a terrible disadvantage.
It's yet again a mp5, or it's competing with AK and mp5 for the close combat weapon. It doesn't belong in long range due to it's accuracy being that of the mp5 if you're moving. It doesn't belong as a weapon choice.

Basically, Steyr is the clear winner, it's better than all the other guns in all situations.

For the semi automatics.

Ruger is a very strange gun. It still has drastic movement acc, which means you cannot move while using it, or you have to prone in the air. Camping doesn't have a place in soldat, so it really doesn't make any sense. It also has damage modifiers closer to each other than mp5 has, which is quite weird.
Ruger is supposed to be a long range, highly accurate, gun with great 1v1 capabilities, but suffer immensely if the users aim isn't quite where it needs to be, or ends up too close to the opponent. It doesn't even have bink, so it's not weak against being rushed down, it should be very strong in close combat... Actually stronger in close combat than it is at range, but if you do prone mid air it should be able to deal with range as well.
However, with it's severe movement acc penalty, it's an RNG weapon, even at close combat.

Deagles They'll still unreliable. They are fairly accurate, but their rng bullet spread is the same as steyr. Unlike steyr however, they're punished much harder for a missed shot, while I expect the TTK to be about the same between the guns.
Additionally, deagles have bad hit reg, I wouldn't be surprised if their bullets work the same as spas (spas pellets client side and server side are not the same, everyone sees a different rng pattern, while the servers uses it's own rng pattern).

Spas Haven't looked into it much, but it's probably fine. It's advantage is the self-boosting, even if it turns out a bad killer, it's strengths makes up for it.


MY SUGGESIONS
Each weapon needs it's own place, with it's own disctinct characteristics. Weapons should be controllable, and minimizing RNG involved.

Here is my wm, which has been tested. I really suggest that darDar should put this on the gather servers and see if it's received well or not. Why not try it out? Out of spite?
Code: [Select]

[Info]
Name=ginn wm
Version=1.0

[Desert Eagles]
Damage=1.65
FireInterval=24
Ammo=7
ReloadTime=70
Speed=19
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.0
BulletSpread=0.0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0176
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[HK MP5]
Damage=0.905
FireInterval=6
Ammo=32
ReloadTime=105
Speed=18.9
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0.09
Recoil=0
Push=0.0112
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[Ak-74]
Damage=0.95
FireInterval=12
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=165
Speed=27
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.01615
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.95

[Steyr AUG]
Damage=0.615
FireInterval=7
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=125
Speed=26
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.006
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.254
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.95

[Spas-12]
Damage=1.05
FireInterval=34
Ammo=7
ReloadTime=165
Speed=14
BulletStyle=3
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0.8
Recoil=0
Push=0.015
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[Ruger 77]
Damage=2.185
FireInterval=42
Ammo=4
ReloadTime=90
Speed=33
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=12
MovementAcc=0.0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.012
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.245
ModifierChest=0.84
ModifierLegs=0.84

[M79]
Damage=1550
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=178
Speed=10.7
BulletStyle=4
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.036
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=1

[Barret M82A1]
Damage=4.45
FireInterval=210
Ammo=10
ReloadTime=70
Speed=55
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=19
Bink=65
MovementAcc=0.05
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.018
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[FN Minimi]
Damage=0.82
FireInterval=9
Ammo=50
ReloadTime=250
Speed=24.6
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.015136
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.95

[XM214 Minigun]
Damage=0.333
FireInterval=3
Ammo=100
ReloadTime=360
Speed=29
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=15
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.0
BulletSpread=0.3
Recoil=0
Push=0.0104
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.85

[USSOCOM]
Damage=1.15
FireInterval=10
Ammo=12
ReloadTime=60
Speed=19
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.02
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.95

[Combat Knife]
Damage=2150
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=3
Speed=6
BulletStyle=11
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.12
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Chainsaw]
Damage=50
FireInterval=2
Ammo=200
ReloadTime=110
Speed=8
BulletStyle=11
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0028
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=0.9

[M72 LAW]
Damage=1550
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=300
Speed=23
BulletStyle=12
StartUpTime=13
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.028
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Punch]
Damage=330
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=3
Speed=5
BulletStyle=6
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Grenade]
Damage=1500
FireInterval=80
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=20
Speed=5
BulletStyle=2
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0
InheritedVelocity=1
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[Stationary Gun]
Damage=1.8
FireInterval=10
Ammo=100
ReloadTime=366
Speed=36
BulletStyle=14
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0088
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.85

[Flamer]
Damage=19
FireInterval=6
Ammo=200
ReloadTime=5
Speed=10.5
BulletStyle=5
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.016
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Rambo Bow]
Damage=12
FireInterval=10
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=25
Speed=21
BulletStyle=7
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0148
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Flamed Arrows]
Damage=8
FireInterval=10
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=39
Speed=18
BulletStyle=8
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

The points I've made with this wm are the following.

  • Feet modifier has made the same as a body shot, because it's hit box is incredibly tiny, hitting a foot shot is completely RNG.
  • Weapons are highly accurate, rewarding actual aim, spread is basically not used
  • Weapons like steyr are highly rewarded for hitting headshots, while punished for hitting feet/body shots
  • Unreliable weapons such as mp5 and deagle have a uniform damage modifiers (head/body = same), which makes them reliable, but don't get an advantage when shooting from above
  • Ruger is competely accurate even while mid air, due to that it's required to hit 2 heat shots to do a 2 hit kill, it also has bink, so a missed shot or a rush down will counter it
  • Minimi has taken the AK bullet speed, and is now a rushing mid range weapon, with higher reliablity due to it's high mag capacity, fires a bit faster than previously
  • AK has a slow rate of fire, but has the shortest TTK if you hit every shot as a headshot. Due to it's lower rate of fire, a missed shot is punished harder than with other guns
  • Barret only has a tiny bit shorter fire interval, to buff it slightly. Otherwise you still need to prone mid air to be accurate
« Last Edit: January 03, 2018, 12:52:01 am by ginn »

Offline duz

  • Flagrunner
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  • Posts: 586
  • Old nick: HunterZ
Re: Current WM
« Reply #43 on: January 03, 2018, 07:04:59 pm »
Ak-47 Is not making much sense. There's no way to control self-bink, other than to stop shooting for a while. Bink and movement acc does not work like this anymore https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8q-VM9410U , you cannot reset the bink between shots.

This is interesting because after some years away I just can't understand the Weapons.ini anymore.
There's movacc, bink, spread, recoil and looks like these vars are badly used.
Almost no weapon use some of these vars, then I read this part of your post and I thought: what tf is going on ??? !!!

You seem engaged to improve the WM. Is it true that there's some variables being horribly used?
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Offline ginn

  • Camper
  • ***
  • Posts: 479
Re: Current WM
« Reply #44 on: January 03, 2018, 08:07:49 pm »
Ak-47 Is not making much sense. There's no way to control self-bink, other than to stop shooting for a while. Bink and movement acc does not work like this anymore https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8q-VM9410U , you cannot reset the bink between shots.

This is interesting because after some years away I just can't understand the Weapons.ini anymore.
There's movacc, bink, spread, recoil and looks like these vars are badly used.
Almost no weapon use some of these vars, then I read this part of your post and I thought: what tf is going on ??? !!!

You seem engaged to improve the WM. Is it true that there's some variables being horribly used?
So, recoil is strictly a realistic mode variable, it's the weapon kick, how your mouse moves upwards.

Movement acc is inaccuracy caused by using jets, holding movement keys, or being in the air. The only way to shoot accurately if the gun has movement acc is to either stand firmly on the ground, or to prone mid air. With Barrett, if you hit prone just before you start holding your fire key, you should have entered prone by the time you fire, resulting in a perfectly accurate shot (personally I think this is a good mechanic, because you need to be aware when to prone, and for example, somebody attacking from above/below means they can run past resulting in the barretter needing to unprone).

Now, bink is when the cursor gets bigger, either from shooting (self-bink), or by being hit by bullets (bink). This works like a gauge, it fills up by the self-bink/bink value everything you shoot/get hit, and then falls down during the time you're not.
Previously, the bink mechanic worked differently. You could imagine this as a guage, it fills up whenever you're firing your weapon, we'll call this the "stored bink"... However, everytime you release your fire key, the bink build up resets, this we can call the "building bink". So essentially after you've released and started holding fire key, even if it's 1/10th  of a second (required for steyr), the building bink gauge will start at zero.
You'd still be affected by bink, because your inaccuracy would be determined by your "stored bink" would have a higher value than your "building bink". The "stored bink" will however continue to decrease until the "building bink" value became equal or greater than the "stored bink".
With that, you could "abuse" bink. By never building up your "stored bink" high, always resetting your bink and keeping it at a very low value, resulting in minuscule inaccuracy.

Now, movement acc and bink had a different interaction between each other. As long as there was any bink active, such as 1 (not noticable), it would overried a any value of movement acc. This meant that you could move with a gun that had high movement acc without being affected by it, because your handling of bink would over ride it.

The way bink works now is that there's no "building bink", the stored bink is always the active bink, and whenver you fire your gun it adds bink to the stored bink. By letting got of the fire key to then start holding will not cause it to reduce, it will continue to build as if nothing happened. This means the only way to minimize the bink is to shoot slower than the bink value (if your bink is lower than your fire rate, it will never build up bink, despite having bink).

Additionally, movement acc is no longer overridden by bink, it only adds to the inaccuracy caused by bink.

Spread is a new thing added in, it's purspose was mostly to override bink, and the animation bug. Previously, the inaccuracy in mp5 was because of the "fire animation" was longer than the fire interval, making the gun become inaccurate. You could notice this on the first bullet of steyr too (first bullet was true to aim, the others shot above your crosshair).

I've been fairly engage with the WM, talking with Falcon about it, who were seemingly fairly positive to it. I also had help with servers from Helloer and Azwraith. I did run a gather server for testing, and I put together a "weapons balance team", of tanaka (good player over all), huudi and kenix (strong ruger and deagle players - I have poor "relations" to these players, but personal opinions of somebody shouldn't hinder the development of the wm), and some others who seemed eager to help out in the wm making.
That's why this is so frustrating, since I was told that if I did a good job with the WM, it would be used. That changed when the lead programmer changed, now darDar has full power over wm.

I do not understand why my wm couldn't be used. If people prefer my wm over darDars wms, then why not use mine? Is it a fear that people would actually prefer mine over his? I don't know, and I don't understand.

Offline ginn

  • Camper
  • ***
  • Posts: 479
Re: Current WM
« Reply #45 on: January 03, 2018, 11:54:50 pm »
I've changed some stuff on mine, AK now shoots faster since some felt the fire rate was too slow (altered damage too ofc), however the bullet speed remains to be of the original minimi (and minimi bulletspeed is still original AK).
AK (40% of previous version), Steyr and Minimi (35% of previous version) have a tiny bit of movement acc, since some players felt it was too accurate. I am aware that players have become used to very inaccurate weapons, so a tiny bit of movement acc may make players feel more comfortable (even though I still would argue no movement acc is better).
Some modifications to DEs, 9 bullets, shoots faster, 4 hit kill. Maybe be UP, but it seemed a bit OP.

Code: [Select]
[Info]
Name=Ginns WM
Version=1.02

[Desert Eagles]
Damage=1.2
FireInterval=21
Ammo=9
ReloadTime=70
Speed=19
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.0
BulletSpread=0.0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0176
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[HK MP5]
Damage=0.905
FireInterval=6
Ammo=32
ReloadTime=105
Speed=18.9
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0.09
Recoil=0
Push=0.0112
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[Ak-74]
Damage=0.76
FireInterval=10
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=165
Speed=27
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.0045
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.01615
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.95

[Steyr AUG]
Damage=0.615
FireInterval=7
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=125
Speed=26
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.0045
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.006
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.254
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.95

[Spas-12]
Damage=0.95
FireInterval=34
Ammo=7
ReloadTime=165
Speed=14
BulletStyle=3
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0.8
Recoil=0
Push=0.015
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[Ruger 77]
Damage=2.185
FireInterval=42
Ammo=4
ReloadTime=90
Speed=33
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=12
MovementAcc=0.0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.012
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.245
ModifierChest=0.84
ModifierLegs=0.84

[M79]
Damage=1550
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=178
Speed=10.7
BulletStyle=4
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.036
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=1

[Barret M82A1]
Damage=4.45
FireInterval=210
Ammo=10
ReloadTime=70
Speed=55
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=19
Bink=45
MovementAcc=0.05
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.018
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[FN Minimi]
Damage=0.82
FireInterval=9
Ammo=50
ReloadTime=250
Speed=24.6
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.0045
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.015136
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.95

[XM214 Minigun]
Damage=0.333
FireInterval=3
Ammo=100
ReloadTime=360
Speed=29
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=15
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.0
BulletSpread=0.3
Recoil=0
Push=0.0104
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.85

[USSOCOM]
Damage=1.15
FireInterval=10
Ammo=12
ReloadTime=60
Speed=19
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.02
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.95

[Combat Knife]
Damage=2150
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=3
Speed=6
BulletStyle=11
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.12
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Chainsaw]
Damage=50
FireInterval=2
Ammo=200
ReloadTime=110
Speed=8
BulletStyle=11
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0028
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=0.9

[M72 LAW]
Damage=1550
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=300
Speed=23
BulletStyle=12
StartUpTime=13
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.028
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Punch]
Damage=330
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=3
Speed=5
BulletStyle=6
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Grenade]
Damage=1500
FireInterval=80
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=20
Speed=5
BulletStyle=2
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0
InheritedVelocity=1
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[Stationary Gun]
Damage=1.8
FireInterval=10
Ammo=100
ReloadTime=366
Speed=36
BulletStyle=14
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0088
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.85

[Flamer]
Damage=19
FireInterval=6
Ammo=200
ReloadTime=5
Speed=10.5
BulletStyle=5
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.016
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Rambo Bow]
Damage=12
FireInterval=10
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=25
Speed=21
BulletStyle=7
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0148
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Flamed Arrows]
Damage=8
FireInterval=10
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=39
Speed=18
BulletStyle=8
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

Another version which may fall into dardars taste more, this one is essentially the same as the first one I suggested, but AK has a little bit of spread, while minimi has some movement acc, also AK now has it's standard bullet speed (no longer minimis), and minimi has it's standard bulletspeed (no longer AKs)
Code: [Select]
[Info]
Name=Ginns WM
Version=2.00

[Desert Eagles]
Damage=1.35
FireInterval=24
Ammo=7
ReloadTime=70
Speed=19
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.0
BulletSpread=0.0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0176
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=0.9
ModifierLegs=0.9

[HK MP5]
Damage=0.875
FireInterval=6
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=105
Speed=18.9
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0.09
Recoil=0
Push=0.0112
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[Ak-74]
Damage=0.82
FireInterval=10
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=165
Speed=24.6
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.0
BulletSpread=0.04
Recoil=0
Push=0.01346
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.9
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Steyr AUG]
Damage=0.525
FireInterval=7
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=125
Speed=26
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.006
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.254
ModifierChest=0.85
ModifierLegs=0.85

[Spas-12]
Damage=0.875
FireInterval=34
Ammo=7
ReloadTime=165
Speed=14
BulletStyle=3
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0.8
Recoil=0
Push=0.015
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[Ruger 77]
Damage=2.185
FireInterval=45
Ammo=4
ReloadTime=90
Speed=33
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=14
MovementAcc=0.0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.012
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.245
ModifierChest=0.84
ModifierLegs=0.84

[M79]
Damage=1550
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=178
Speed=10.7
BulletStyle=4
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.036
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=1

[Barret M82A1]
Damage=4.45
FireInterval=210
Ammo=10
ReloadTime=70
Speed=55
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=19
Bink=45
MovementAcc=0.05
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.018
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[FN Minimi]
Damage=0.747
FireInterval=9
Ammo=50
ReloadTime=250
Speed=27
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.00725
BulletSpread=0.0
Recoil=0
Push=0.015136
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.9
ModifierLegs=0.9

[XM214 Minigun]
Damage=0.333
FireInterval=3
Ammo=100
ReloadTime=360
Speed=29
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=15
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.0
BulletSpread=0.3
Recoil=0
Push=0.0104
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.85

[USSOCOM]
Damage=1.15
FireInterval=10
Ammo=12
ReloadTime=60
Speed=19
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.02
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.9
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Combat Knife]
Damage=2150
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=3
Speed=6
BulletStyle=11
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.12
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Chainsaw]
Damage=50
FireInterval=2
Ammo=200
ReloadTime=110
Speed=8
BulletStyle=11
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0028
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=0.9

[M72 LAW]
Damage=1550
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=300
Speed=23
BulletStyle=12
StartUpTime=13
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.028
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Punch]
Damage=330
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=3
Speed=5
BulletStyle=6
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Grenade]
Damage=1500
FireInterval=80
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=20
Speed=5
BulletStyle=2
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0
InheritedVelocity=1
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[Stationary Gun]
Damage=1.8
FireInterval=10
Ammo=100
ReloadTime=366
Speed=36
BulletStyle=14
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0088
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.85

[Flamer]
Damage=19
FireInterval=6
Ammo=200
ReloadTime=5
Speed=10.5
BulletStyle=5
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.016
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Rambo Bow]
Damage=12
FireInterval=10
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=25
Speed=21
BulletStyle=7
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0148
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Flamed Arrows]
Damage=8
FireInterval=10
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=39
Speed=18
BulletStyle=8
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

It can be tested at IP: node-de4.gshost.us Port: 25460 Pass: 123 (continuously restarting atm, dunno why)
It's EU based server. If there's people wanting to play 3v3, then make room for them.

You can use !wm 100/101/102/200/201 to switch between the different versions, and only "!wm" to load the default 1.7.1(c) wm.
I've added !w 0-16 0-16 to select your weapons, use !help to figure out which number is which secondary.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 06:48:02 am by ginn »

Offline duz

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #46 on: January 04, 2018, 07:24:44 am »
Oops, sorry about the "recoil". I'm not playing since the SWC 2011, just few matches on pub servers, I forgot that this var even existed in the past.
I'm used to the movacc mechanics. I was just confused because it was really easy to know how each thing worked and now there's all this mess (looks a mess to me), a var that override other etc.

In your opinion, there's a better way to handle all these things, maybe with less vars or something? Is it a good system to you?
The dmg modifiers looks like an improvement, but I can't say the same about the rest.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2018, 07:26:58 am by duz »
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Offline ginn

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  • Posts: 479
Re: Current WM
« Reply #47 on: January 06, 2018, 08:59:34 am »
For unfortunate reasons, I can't have my wm server on the official gather discord channel.

You can join at soldat://node-de4.gshost.us:25460/123 to test my wm out (use !wm 219 to enable it while in the server). To add to a gather you use !add, to remove you use !remove, to see who's added use !who.
From previous versions, current wm has less damage.

Code: [Select]
[Info]
Name=Ginns WM
Version=2.19

[Desert Eagles]
Damage=1.55
FireInterval=24
Ammo=7
ReloadTime=70
Speed=19
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.0
BulletSpread=0.0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0176
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.10
ModifierChest=0.9
ModifierLegs=0.9

[HK MP5]
Damage=0.75
FireInterval=6
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=105
Speed=18.9
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0.11
Recoil=0
Push=0.0112
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[Ak-74]
Damage=0.95
FireInterval=11
Ammo=35
ReloadTime=165
Speed=24.6
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=-12
MovementAcc=0.0015
BulletSpread=0.0
Recoil=0
Push=0.015136
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.9
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Steyr AUG]
Damage=0.58
FireInterval=7
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=125
Speed=26
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.005
BulletSpread=0.02
Recoil=0
Push=0.0084
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.9
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Spas-12]
Damage=0.95
FireInterval=34
Ammo=7
ReloadTime=165
Speed=14
BulletStyle=3
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0.8
Recoil=0
Push=0.022
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[Ruger 77]
Damage=2.1
FireInterval=45
Ammo=4
ReloadTime=90
Speed=33
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=14
MovementAcc=0.008
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.012
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.245
ModifierChest=0.8
ModifierLegs=0.8

[M79]
Damage=1550
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=178
Speed=10.7
BulletStyle=4
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.036
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Barret M82A1]
Damage=4.45
FireInterval=210
Ammo=10
ReloadTime=70
Speed=55
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=19
Bink=55
MovementAcc=0.05
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.018
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[FN Minimi]
Damage=0.65
FireInterval=9
Ammo=50
ReloadTime=250
Speed=27
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.0
BulletSpread=0.06
Recoil=0
Push=0.0128
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.9
ModifierLegs=0.9

[XM214 Minigun]
Damage=0.5475
FireInterval=6
Ammo=100
ReloadTime=365
Speed=29
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=19
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.025
BulletSpread=0.04
Recoil=0
Push=0.00125
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.00
ModifierChest=0.9
ModifierLegs=0.9

[USSOCOM]
Damage=1.1
FireInterval=11
Ammo=12
ReloadTime=60
Speed=19
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.02
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.9
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Combat Knife]
Damage=2150
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=3
Speed=6
BulletStyle=11
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.12
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Chainsaw]
Damage=50
FireInterval=2
Ammo=200
ReloadTime=110
Speed=8
BulletStyle=11
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0028
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=0.9

[M72 LAW]
Damage=1550
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=300
Speed=23
BulletStyle=12
StartUpTime=13
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.028
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Punch]
Damage=330
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=3
Speed=5
BulletStyle=6
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Grenade]
Damage=1500
FireInterval=80
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=20
Speed=5
BulletStyle=2
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0
InheritedVelocity=1
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[Stationary Gun]
Damage=1.8
FireInterval=10
Ammo=100
ReloadTime=366
Speed=36
BulletStyle=14
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0088
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.85

[Flamer]
Damage=19
FireInterval=6
Ammo=200
ReloadTime=5
Speed=10.5
BulletStyle=5
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.016
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Rambo Bow]
Damage=12
FireInterval=10
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=25
Speed=21
BulletStyle=7
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0148
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Flamed Arrows]
Damage=8
FireInterval=10
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=39
Speed=18
BulletStyle=8
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

This is using dardars idea for the minigun, but because of how the game handles fire intervals below 6, it's fairly useless for surfing, here's an exampe. https://my.mixtape.moe/tjmnaf.webm
You need to update your position to be able to change where the server registers your aim, when your fire rate is below 6.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 05:00:01 pm by ginn »

Offline Petterkowski

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #48 on: January 15, 2018, 08:08:40 pm »

General Changes:


- overall lower damage
Okay, i played few games and i stand behind my words. I don't think that the "damage" itself is a problem. So, realistically I believe the current problem is that there's just too far a gap right now between newbies and somewhat experienced players. When pros get a lead, it creates problems for the rest of the players because of the massive difference. Youngsters/unskilleds die far faster than they should be able to only because pros obviously become unkillable machines for them. People tend to pin point this as a "high damage problem", and it is.. but there's no way to simply lump it all into one category like that.

The real problem at hand is more or less a lack of "scaling/matchmaking/classes" issue and with the insane amount of experienced players. There are just too many different factors that you would need to consider to effectively solve the issue. At any rate, lowering damage output across the board won't solve anything. If that happened, pros will be more unkillable than ever before and basically every skilled player will become an unbearable task for any beginner, due to how hard they'll be to take down. In my opinion, a good starting point should always be to increase the chances on early games, to encourage new players to invest more into the game.

But that's just me speculating.

Just simply tuning down the overall damage might not actually accomplish much other than give a placebo effect for a short while if the actual cause of the damage creep isn't narrowed down. If you recall former minimi 1.5 reduced damage masteries and a few days after that patch there was a quarrel about how fights seemed to last longer. That's the type of placebo effect I'm refering to. Could just be that damage feels high because the level progression is so fast and the skill gap is so deep, but that's not the damage problem.

And once again:

Long, in-depth explanation why the current weapon mod is good

Why it's good to have low TTK nowadays. High TTK vs Medium TTK vs Low TTK

In-depth clarification; LOW TTK vs HIGH TTK

Lower damage makes pro games less interesting to watch, and let's be honest, many beginners want to continue their journey with the game because they watched a cracking top tier game and they have a vision that one day they'll be playing like that. It's a fast paced game. Watching someone whittle down their opponent by consistently performing dull shots over the course of 2 minutes, and then finally going in for the risky kill isn't exciting. Playing with balls, going hand in hand and diving a pro at 100% health off position is.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 10:32:07 am by Petterkowski »


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Into the last good fight I'll ever know.
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Offline ginn

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #49 on: January 16, 2018, 02:00:00 pm »
"pro play" has devolved into DM. Tactics and strategy is practically void, because there's no point in defending because of how quick and easy you can kill. The messed up med/nade-kit plays a large role in that though.

Offline urraka

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #50 on: January 16, 2018, 03:26:14 pm »
If we get significant changes in WM I hope we get a beta for long enough so we, the common public folks, get a chance to bitch about it before it's made official. I'm all for having it more newbie friendly (is that even possible?), but lower damage seems all the opposite to that and it would suck if the game starts feeling slower. I don't suppose gather players would fuck that up, though. But still would be nice to see it for myself in public servers. Also, how about adding something to such beta version to encourage players to come here and give their opinion on it? It would help to see the overall reaction to these changes.
urraka

Offline machina

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #51 on: January 16, 2018, 03:38:50 pm »
If we get significant changes in WM I hope we get a beta for long enough so we, the common public folks, get a chance to bitch about it before it's made official.
Having public beta would be real nice