Author Topic: Current WM  (Read 13273 times)

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Offline Viral

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Re: Re: Devlog update (2017-12-10) Steam release moved to January, flood fixes
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2017, 05:48:54 am »
You don't need to lie down to shoot mid air with barrett, just the firing angle is different - I remember being pretty consistent with it when i played weapons regularly.
I don't know about inaccurcy, but i don't think being able to shoot pinpoint shoots when getting sprayed already for x seconds is fair. You should be in a bigger disadvantage if u let auto-users get that close to you

Offline Akinaro

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Re: Re: Devlog update (2017-12-10) Steam release moved to January, flood fixes
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2017, 06:17:28 am »
Heh... typical conversation about WM made by few hard-headed "pros", that can spend days and days stripping any WM suggestion to tinny little parts that at the end have no F connection to actual WM...

There is no such force on earth that would make you all happy. If one guy suggest something, you can be sure that 2 people behind him will be triggered like feminist in some demonstration. Shouting and telling you that you dont know anything and give you 1000 examples why their opinion is better than yours.

Not to mention that its obvious that WM is crappy if you always choose person/team that is biased as F in terms of some gun and game tactics. If you really want balanced WM choose two people that have opposed suggestions regarding balance. Or you know, stop nursing old players like little kids, and just focus what typical players in public servers want...
Because when you look at it from the side, you totally dont give a flying crap about fun that game need to give, and you focus stricte on specific scenarios that YOU personally play in specific gather sessions with people that have similar taste like you... How the hell you could make good WM in such conditions?
Because maybe you forgot, but game dont end at gathers where bunch of oldfags plays. You dont want to think about future players and public games where people play, you know, for fun? Because they are "noobs", and their skill end mostly at knowing basic game mechanic, map layout and observation of other players movement. Gun is just a tool.

So yeah, you can spend rest of your life discussing about every changes anyone suggest. That just show that your game skill are purely based on habits. Your brains just can handle idea of "refreshing" memory and adapting to new settings, because you know, "skilled" person would deal with it and learn how to be good with those new settings. Its like you would be afraid that you would suck in game after changes, but you forgot that EVERYONE else would need to get used to it so "there would be balance in the force".

Not to mention that people who cry most about WM dont really play in public so, you know when you play in gathers or your own servers, what is stopping you from getting your own WM?
Make some separated standardized WM for gathers, where you can keep all settings that you like.



As for mentioned suggestion them self:

1. No, LAW is not OP, as Duz said, you need to stop and crouch to shoot it, and for most of time its "shoot and forget" weapon that you can use just once, because you need to wait long time to reload. And f you compare it to knife(jezus...) you can pick it up and use it again in less than second. So you see, there is nice balance here. No need to cry about anything.

2. No Barret would not be useless if it would have crappy stats at mid-air. This is actually how it should always work. And just because of that it doesnt mean that all you can do with it is camping, its really crappy reasoning, because no matter how it work, that type of weapon will always be used for camping by some people, that the feature of Sniper rifle in any game(even if Barret is more of anti-material rifle rather than sniper rifle, but that not the point)
If Barret would be nerfed down in mid air, it would not be used so often in every game, because right now no matter where someone is(air ground) he can nail you down and it dont need any skill to do that.
If Barret would be grounded, you could not just fly back from enemy waiting for reload to shoot him again, you would need to land to actually have chance to hit him, where any spray gun would balance that by being able to shoot you down when you are flying. Simple and efficient balance.

3. Ruger was always broken because it sit between sniper rifle and spray gun. If you make it more OP people will cry that there is no point of Barret, if you make it too week people start crying that its too week. There is no real "middle ground" for that gun.
All you can really do is just keep it less deadly than Barret, because keeping it weaker is only way to keep it at all without removing it totally.
For me best balance would be: Two-three shoots to kill(in normal scenario head shoot should not kill you, but seriously bleed you out), good amount of recoil to compensate this high damage, tad longer reload than all spray guns and small nerfing aim in mid-air so it will not end as replacement for Barret there.

Offline duz

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2017, 04:31:26 pm »
The game was dominated by Barrett, and only heavy spray and hard work could beat it, and obviously only on open maps.
Nowadays barrett is way less useful, it actually almost never see any use. Most of the time an M79 can do the job that you'd consider picking barrett for.

If you could not shoot mid air, which you by the way have to prone to be accurate for, barrett would be completely useless. You'd have to pray for good RNG every shot, and every kill you got wouldn't be based on your skill, just RNG.

I assume you think you can just lay down and camp with barrett? Nah, that makes you largely worthless for your team.

I can't remember that dominance. Not on TNL, ESL, SCTFL and famous public servers like U13. Not even ESL 1v1 was dominated by Barretts.

I don't know if it sounds different in english but (again):
Quote
Certain inaccuracy, not completely inaccurate.
Just make it harder while you're in the air.

plus #1: think about this situation and REMOVE the delay.
Looks like an useful weapon to me, without weirdness.

+

plus #2:
Again and again. I was playing today on Zabijaka! CTF server, testing a new interface and all I said about being untouchable happend a lot of times.
People with Barrett losing their hats in mid-air and being able to hit me with an incredible precision. IT IS A J-O-K-E.


Suggestions:
1. Remove the Barrett delay. Add bink and makes it a little bit harder in mid-air. Not impossible to master, just harder to get the right 'alignment' to shoot precisely.
The game already have a crosshair precision indicator (it should be an indicator :D), so it won't be random.
You can also add another image to the crosshair to indicate precision, like a red point or red overlay over your crosshair (it would be customizable), I don't know, just an idea.
2. Or you can keep the delay in mid-air and remove it if you're on the ground. Just don't forget the untouchable thing.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 04:55:15 pm by duz »
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Offline ginn

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2017, 05:13:52 pm »
Unless you prone in mid air your shot won't be accurate, you'll have to rely on RNG to hit anything at longer ranges. It is fine as it is now, having now delay would make it real cancer, with really no way beating it in 1v1.
If they were binked and still hit, they were either lucky, or cheating. Then there's obviously also ping to take into account, they won't be affected by bink until after the ping delay.

Offline duz

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2017, 06:58:02 pm »
Unless you prone in mid air your shot won't be accurate, you'll have to rely on RNG to hit anything at longer ranges. It is fine as it is now, having now delay would make it real cancer, with really no way beating it in 1v1.
If they were binked and still hit, they were either lucky, or cheating. Then there's obviously also ping to take into account, they won't be affected by bink until after the ping delay.

vs

The game was dominated by Barrett, and only heavy spray and hard work could beat it, and obviously only on open maps.
Nowadays barrett is way less useful, it actually almost never see any use. Most of the time an M79 can do the job that you'd consider picking barrett for.

If you could not shoot mid air, which you by the way have to prone to be accurate for, barrett would be completely useless. You'd have to pray for good RNG every shot, and every kill you got wouldn't be based on your skill, just RNG.

I assume you think you can just lay down and camp with barrett? Nah, that makes you largely worthless for your team.

I think you just hate this weapon and that's it.  ::)
Your posts simply don't make any sense.

'it actually almost never see any use. Most of the time an M79 can do the job that you'd consider picking barrett for'

but if you change it: (I'm talking about a NERF not a BUFF. LOL)

'would make it real cancer'

I don't know if you think Barrett is OP or useless and what's your suggestion to improve it.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 07:03:10 pm by duz »
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Offline ginn

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2017, 01:21:52 am »
Barrett is underpowered, but removing start up time would make it terribly OP in publics, and in the competitive scene.
It used to be OP when it had no start up time, that's why it got start up time.

Offline duz

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2017, 02:17:31 am »
Barrett is underpowered, but removing start up time would make it terribly OP in publics, and in the competitive scene.
It used to be OP when it had no start up time, that's why it got start up time.

Looks like I'm saying 'remove the delay and it's ok'. But that's not true.
I agree that removing the delay would add a lot of power to nowaday's Barrett, that's why I've suggested other things to balance.

First of all. Why I suggest removing the delay? Because it's weird for a Barrett. You shouldn't see it like a monster.
The combination of these things should provide a good balance.

You were talking about ping. Dude... So let's consider the ping and rebalance M79?
The weapon that provides the strongest peekers advantage in Soldat.
Everybody uses it and makes a huge advantage on short maps.
People are killing others even after dead. All the time. It's the same for the bink. 100ms changes everything.
Maybe add delay? :) Nah.

« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 02:24:07 pm by duz »
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Offline CheeSeMan.

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2017, 06:53:21 am »
I really have never understood why we can not just have a WM intended for 3v3 and a WM mode intended for public servers... hell you could even have one for 1v1 if you really wanted.

Sure this is more for league/gather admins or server admins to decide but it removes a lot of headache from shoozza... in any case whatever the WM changes I hope dardar will add them to gather servers and ask for feedback.
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Offline paintZoom

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2017, 09:51:22 am »
MR.negative on visuals of the WM:

-socom has too many bullets  (looks like a machinegun)
-firin the law takes too much time  (hinders the combo capability) (less epicness)(weak against spawners)
-airborne player with Barret looks too "sharp" (example: visually no bink / moveacc plus "lucky")  fix: add ton of moveacc
-shotgun fire rate a Little too fast (reduces the "ohshitohshit" when u clickin and its not firing)
-AK (cmon its the good ol AK) it needs love  (maybe make it deal lot of damage and pierce a Little)  movielike
-minimi its lookin too "acurate" for a big gun

picky mode off- i really enjoy the WM these days and i see newer players do good with it so keep up on keepin up

Offline CheeSeMan.

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2017, 01:07:38 pm »
There is currently a new WM on gather servers, you can play gathers via joining soldat discord here: http://gather.soldat.pl/discord

I recommend anyone to join and give some feedback to dardar after you have played a few games!

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Offline machina

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #30 on: December 27, 2017, 04:02:12 pm »
There is currently a new WM on gather servers, you can play gathers via joining soldat discord here: http://gather.soldat.pl/discord

I recommend anyone to join and give some feedback to dardar after you have played a few games!
Is changelog for this "new" WM available anywhere? I want to compare constants.

Offline ginn

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #31 on: December 29, 2017, 08:01:36 am »
There is currently a new WM on gather servers, you can play gathers via joining soldat discord here: http://gather.soldat.pl/discord

I recommend anyone to join and give some feedback to dardar after you have played a few games!
lmao
It's just damage numbers gone down, as if everything else was fine. AK still has bink, and it got more spread.

Shoozza has blindly given full control to darDar, like an idiot. I wish Falcon had stepped up his devving, because he was way more competent.

Offline psy.

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #32 on: December 29, 2017, 02:27:23 pm »
WM 1.4.2 please

Offline Shoozza

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #33 on: December 29, 2017, 08:22:35 pm »
There is currently a new WM on gather servers, you can play gathers via joining soldat discord here: http://gather.soldat.pl/discord

I recommend anyone to join and give some feedback to dardar after you have played a few games!
lmao
It's just damage numbers gone down, as if everything else was fine. AK still has bink, and it got more spread.

Shoozza has blindly given full control to darDar, like an idiot. I wish Falcon had stepped up his devving, because he was way more competent.
I told you to discuss the matter with darDar. Someone has to do the WM.
You can vent your anger for not getting the lead position but insulting people isn't exactly the best way to show compentence.

@machina not sure if there are final numbers yet but there are tests pm darDar about it if you want to try stuff out.
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Offline darDar

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #34 on: December 29, 2017, 11:30:22 pm »
There is currently a new WM on gather servers, you can play gathers via joining soldat discord here: http://gather.soldat.pl/discord

I recommend anyone to join and give some feedback to dardar after you have played a few games!
Is changelog for this "new" WM available anywhere? I want to compare constants.

I'm not really a fan of having people discuss or debate a WM based on raw 'numbers' for various reasons. I'll announce and share the 'final' WM after testing was completed.

You can however test the current beta WM on our gather servers at: http://gather.soldat.pl/discord/
The WM is in place for 7 days now. There were 5 small updates made on the WM in that period. We got a channel on Discord to discuss. Anyone who's interested may join us there (pm me for access).

General Changes:


- overall lower damage
- remade the  ([AK74] AK-74)
- remade the ([Minigun] Minigun) from scratch

Most mechanics on the weapons remain the same.

I will post a full and detailed thread in a while including all changes.  [Bravoguy]

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Offline machina

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2017, 12:59:25 pm »
You can however test the current beta WM on our gather servers at: http://gather.soldat.pl/discord/
So the only way to try this WM out is to enter a gather where you get instantenously flamed by other players who gonna bitch about your skills?

I used to be voiced on #lrs and #soldat.realistic gathers but normal mode gathers are not within my cup of tea despite the fact I'm doing somewhat fine on publics. The thing is that realistic WM is made good as well for publics as for gathers. Normal mode WM isn't.

- overall lower damage
Does it mean Barret won't foot-kill anymore? Does it mean Ruger will require 3 shots to kill?

Offline ginn

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2017, 01:36:44 pm »
lmao
It's just damage numbers gone down, as if everything else was fine. AK still has bink, and it got more spread.

Shoozza has blindly given full control to darDar, like an idiot. I wish Falcon had stepped up his devving, because he was way more competent.
I told you to discuss the matter with darDar. Someone has to do the WM.
You can vent your anger for not getting the lead position but insulting people isn't exactly the best way to show compentence.

[/quote]
As I already told you, I've tried to work with darDar in the past, but that didn't work out. Also the fact that he wouldn't allow me to put in wm servers into the gather channel doesn't make it any better.
Just looking at the previous wm, you should know he's not competent enough.

Of course you could give me the leader position just like that, since I've already put in a lot of effort on a wm.

I made this wm suggestion over a year ago, and I had a wm gather open and a public open for a while (until I got tired of trying to drag people into it, and warnings for not being allowed to "advertise" about it in #soldat irc channel). That's plenty enough to show "competence", and plenty enough of work to get the leader position.
How did darDar get the leader position anyway? Payed his way into it by hosting servers? I mean it's good that somebody is willing to spend money on servers, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to give them power over the game development.

You too have already showed your "competence", as you've already been kicked out of the dev team once, that tells us a lot about it.

I'm not really a fan of having people discuss or debate a WM based on raw 'numbers' for various reasons. I'll announce and share the 'final' WM after testing was completed.
I've joined a server to see already. It's just lower damage numbers, even though spread is a pretty huge issue and changed how the game plays. You've even increased the spread, and AK still has self-bink.
Self-bink does no longer work like before, so you cannot put in self-bink into the game, since there's no way to control it other than simply stop shooting for a while (it also sets on really quickly).

I didn't look at ruger, but I assume it's even more broken OP now. You're legit going to kill the game by doing the wm this poorly.

The game had a total rework of the gun mechanics, and some of it was good, but a lot of it was bad. It needs a rework of gun mechanics, you cannot simply lower some damage numbers and believe it's going to be good.

Offline darDar

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #37 on: January 01, 2018, 02:04:21 am »
Quote
I didn't look at ruger, but I assume it's even more broken OP now. You're legit going to kill the game by doing the wm this poorly.

Everything you say is based on random allegations, coming from a biased POV. Being obsessed by ranting about the wm for the past 5+ years isn't helpful at all.

Quote
The game had a total rework of the gun mechanics, and some of it was good, but a lot of it was bad. It needs a rework of gun mechanics, you cannot simply lower some damage numbers and believe it's going to be good.
can you elaborate... which changes were good and which were bad and why? There weren't only 'damage numbers' lowered. You should actually test it and give feedback as many others did if you want your opinion/feedback to be taken into account.

I'm also not going to waste my time arguing with you if you keep your discussions on such a low level. FYI.

Ontopic;
There were already 6 revisions made on the new WM and it's pretty close to being done.
I'll make a post (probably this weekend) including the final  weapons.ini + changelog and be available for Q&A, testing and discussion there.
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Offline Shoozza

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #38 on: January 01, 2018, 02:41:42 pm »
You too have already showed your "competence", as you've already been kicked out of the dev team once, that tells us a lot about it.
Not sure why i need to repeat myself: Attacking people doesn't improve your standing here.

The fact that you always need to push back just shows that you cannot deal with criticism properly.
Somebody like that will not be able to handle community feedback in a useful way.

More so, if you believe that I'm incompetent you probably should just leave (why would you want to work for someone who is incompetent?).
But maybe you are just out of ideas for proper arguments and ranting is all that is left.

Either way just like darDar said ranting isn't helpful.
As you can see darDar will take your feedback into account.
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Offline ginn

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #39 on: January 01, 2018, 07:09:21 pm »
Everything you say is based on random allegations, coming from a biased POV.
No, it's not.
Everyone knows I was not allowed to get the wm servers onto #soldat, and you started hiding away and ignoring my pms after a while.

The fact that you always need to push back just shows that you cannot deal with criticism properly.
What?
Telling you that you, and darDar are incompetent is just telling the truth. It's really bad for soldat that you two have any power over the development of soldat.

Somebody like that will not be able to handle community feedback in a useful way.
Except I've already done it, and taken suggestions and feedback into account, over a year ago. That was how the wm I made became so fine tuned.
Of course I ignored suggestions and feedback that was somewhat non-sensical... Like adding self-bink to autos, because they wanted it to work like it did in the past. Movement acc and bink have changed, so you can no longer use it.

Also darDars naivety to believe headshots should be rewarded despite the fact that the game has excessive rng spread.

More so, if you believe that I'm incompetent you probably should just leave (why would you want to work for someone who is incompetent?)
You think you have that much influence on people? No wonder nobody wanted to work with you. What kind of logic are you using to believe I'd be working "for you" if I did the wm? You seem to have a huge ego.
IF the game was in a playable state I'd continue to play, but the game has already been broken past to point of being playable, by a horrible wm, and change in spawn mechanics.

I haven't played the game in a long time, and only occasionally played a few matches over the last few years, mostly out of nostalgia (and wanting to play in the last SCTFL).

But maybe you are just out of ideas for proper arguments and ranting is all that is left.
Exactly, there's no reasoning with you two. Ignoring PMs for weeks. Asking to be contacted on a certain platform, to then proceed with ignoring.
Communication has been impossible, and you may proceed with killing soldat.

As you can see darDar will take your feedback into account.
I can say that I'll spend ?1mil into soldat development, that doesn't mean it's true. I wont. The difference here is, I guess, that darDar is a liar, while I don't feel the need to lie in this conversation.
I've had this conversation with darDar in the past, and he has his mind set, and his idea of the wm is very naive. Just look at how AK still has/had self-bink. He'll basically "work with me", and take my feedback, if I echo exactly what he wants.

What's a little weird, is how there was no wm "builds" before I messaged Shoozza telling him that darDar does not take wm seriously, since if he did, there'd be wm servers. Obviously I got no response from that pm, per usual.
Suddenly, a few days later, there's this "experimental wm" on the servers... I wonder what happened.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2018, 08:08:28 pm by ginn »