Author Topic: Current WM  (Read 1360 times)

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Offline Shoozza

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #40 on: January 02, 2018, 01:16:33 am »
@ginn: I see no value in further continuing this discussion either.

Therefore: A reminder for anyone posting after this post:
Any attacks on people will result in a ban. Such ill behavior has no place in this community.
Posts with attacks as well as offtopic content will get deleted.

Please discuss the changes to the wm in a objective and productive way.
Avoid allegations and do not derail this thread by posting off topic content.
The wm lead position is not up to discussion and considered off topic.

Please refrain from posting if your post would get deleted anyways.

@darDar please excuse me for not defending the attacks on you and ignore the post above instead (it is off topic anyways).
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Offline CheeSeMan.

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #41 on: January 02, 2018, 06:14:34 am »
@Machina

Yes some older players do get mad, but with the way the gather admins have made the discord gather that it attempts to balance the teams it is a good time to try. The gather admins have been open to newer players and have been giving cooldowns in the range of 3 to 4 days to players who whine or insult people due to skill. Also I do not see another way to test a new WM, if it was on a public server no one would provide feedback. Here you can test and pm darDar immediately.

@Everyone

darDar has been very open to feedback, he has already made several adjustments that were pushed mostly from the feedback. Yes, he does have an overall goal in mind for the WM but I think if you do not have an idea that you stick to then you can't really make a good WM.
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Offline ginn

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #42 on: January 03, 2018, 12:28:37 am »
@Everyone

darDar has been very open to feedback, he has already made several adjustments that were pushed mostly from the feedback. Yes, he does have an overall goal in mind for the WM but I think if you do not have an idea that you stick to then you can't really make a good WM.
Lets put that to the test.


one thing to keep in mind, is that some weapons may need some more distinct features, where damage modifiers can be seen as a weakness or a strength.
Pretty much I'll just be repeating myself for like the 5th time.

I'll start with the autos

mp5 is so inaccurate that it makes no sense to reward headshots. though the damage modifier is quite similar for head/body+feet shot, which does appropriately makeup for that inaccuracy. The extra head damage modifier may be beneficial to when you attack from above. Weirdly enough, despite losing 19% damage, it's not gotten increased clip size.
It's weakness is it's range, to punish it further with a 1.0 damage modifier across all parts of the body may be too much.

Ak-47 Is not making much sense. There's no way to control self-bink, other than to stop shooting for a while. Bink and movement acc does not work like this anymore https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8q-VM9410U , you cannot reset the bink between shots.
Within 10 bullets it's as inaccurate as mp5, which means it has to significantly lower it's rate of fire. Basically, AK is a close combat weapon, since it cannot compete at longer ranges due to how slow it's rate of fire has to be to be accurate.
I cannot see where it fits in, it's so niche that it's obsolete.
It even has movement acc, which means it cannot be used well while moving. That means it cannot be used for ranged (steyr beats it), and cannot be used for close ranged.

Steyr
It's the most accurate weapon, and seemingly has the shortest TTK, without any real disadvantages. It's clip size has been increased by more than it's damage has been decreased. Previous version it was already overpowered, with these changes it must be even more dominant.
It has minimal movement acc, which means it's dominant in all aspects. I do not believe mp5 has a shorter TTK, which means it's effectively making mp5 obeslete.
The damage modifier differences are a bit bigger than that of mp5 (but same as AK), but it's inaccuracy even when standing still means you can't actually aim for a headshot, it's up to RNG if you hit a headshot or a bod/feet shot.

Minimi
It's accurate if you're standing still, or proning mid air. However, there's no place in soldat where you can stand still and shoot, you're at a terrible disadvantage.
It's yet again a mp5, or it's competing with AK and mp5 for the close combat weapon. It doesn't belong in long range due to it's accuracy being that of the mp5 if you're moving. It doesn't belong as a weapon choice.

Basically, Steyr is the clear winner, it's better than all the other guns in all situations.

For the semi automatics.

Ruger is a very strange gun. It still has drastic movement acc, which means you cannot move while using it, or you have to prone in the air. Camping doesn't have a place in soldat, so it really doesn't make any sense. It also has damage modifiers closer to each other than mp5 has, which is quite weird.
Ruger is supposed to be a long range, highly accurate, gun with great 1v1 capabilities, but suffer immensely if the users aim isn't quite where it needs to be, or ends up too close to the opponent. It doesn't even have bink, so it's not weak against being rushed down, it should be very strong in close combat... Actually stronger in close combat than it is at range, but if you do prone mid air it should be able to deal with range as well.
However, with it's severe movement acc penalty, it's an RNG weapon, even at close combat.

Deagles They'll still unreliable. They are fairly accurate, but their rng bullet spread is the same as steyr. Unlike steyr however, they're punished much harder for a missed shot, while I expect the TTK to be about the same between the guns.
Additionally, deagles have bad hit reg, I wouldn't be surprised if their bullets work the same as spas (spas pellets client side and server side are not the same, everyone sees a different rng pattern, while the servers uses it's own rng pattern).

Spas Haven't looked into it much, but it's probably fine. It's advantage is the self-boosting, even if it turns out a bad killer, it's strengths makes up for it.


MY SUGGESIONS
Each weapon needs it's own place, with it's own disctinct characteristics. Weapons should be controllable, and minimizing RNG involved.

Here is my wm, which has been tested. I really suggest that darDar should put this on the gather servers and see if it's received well or not. Why not try it out? Out of spite?
Code: [Select]

[Info]
Name=ginn wm
Version=1.0

[Desert Eagles]
Damage=1.65
FireInterval=24
Ammo=7
ReloadTime=70
Speed=19
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.0
BulletSpread=0.0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0176
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[HK MP5]
Damage=0.905
FireInterval=6
Ammo=32
ReloadTime=105
Speed=18.9
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0.09
Recoil=0
Push=0.0112
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[Ak-74]
Damage=0.95
FireInterval=12
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=165
Speed=27
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.01615
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.95

[Steyr AUG]
Damage=0.615
FireInterval=7
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=125
Speed=26
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.006
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.254
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.95

[Spas-12]
Damage=1.05
FireInterval=34
Ammo=7
ReloadTime=165
Speed=14
BulletStyle=3
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0.8
Recoil=0
Push=0.015
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[Ruger 77]
Damage=2.185
FireInterval=42
Ammo=4
ReloadTime=90
Speed=33
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=12
MovementAcc=0.0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.012
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.245
ModifierChest=0.84
ModifierLegs=0.84

[M79]
Damage=1550
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=178
Speed=10.7
BulletStyle=4
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.036
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=1

[Barret M82A1]
Damage=4.45
FireInterval=210
Ammo=10
ReloadTime=70
Speed=55
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=19
Bink=65
MovementAcc=0.05
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.018
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[FN Minimi]
Damage=0.82
FireInterval=9
Ammo=50
ReloadTime=250
Speed=24.6
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.015136
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.95

[XM214 Minigun]
Damage=0.333
FireInterval=3
Ammo=100
ReloadTime=360
Speed=29
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=15
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.0
BulletSpread=0.3
Recoil=0
Push=0.0104
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.85

[USSOCOM]
Damage=1.15
FireInterval=10
Ammo=12
ReloadTime=60
Speed=19
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.02
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.95

[Combat Knife]
Damage=2150
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=3
Speed=6
BulletStyle=11
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.12
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Chainsaw]
Damage=50
FireInterval=2
Ammo=200
ReloadTime=110
Speed=8
BulletStyle=11
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0028
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=0.9

[M72 LAW]
Damage=1550
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=300
Speed=23
BulletStyle=12
StartUpTime=13
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.028
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Punch]
Damage=330
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=3
Speed=5
BulletStyle=6
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Grenade]
Damage=1500
FireInterval=80
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=20
Speed=5
BulletStyle=2
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0
InheritedVelocity=1
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[Stationary Gun]
Damage=1.8
FireInterval=10
Ammo=100
ReloadTime=366
Speed=36
BulletStyle=14
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0088
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.85

[Flamer]
Damage=19
FireInterval=6
Ammo=200
ReloadTime=5
Speed=10.5
BulletStyle=5
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.016
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Rambo Bow]
Damage=12
FireInterval=10
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=25
Speed=21
BulletStyle=7
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0148
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Flamed Arrows]
Damage=8
FireInterval=10
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=39
Speed=18
BulletStyle=8
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

The points I've made with this wm are the following.

  • Feet modifier has made the same as a body shot, because it's hit box is incredibly tiny, hitting a foot shot is completely RNG.
  • Weapons are highly accurate, rewarding actual aim, spread is basically not used
  • Weapons like steyr are highly rewarded for hitting headshots, while punished for hitting feet/body shots
  • Unreliable weapons such as mp5 and deagle have a uniform damage modifiers (head/body = same), which makes them reliable, but don't get an advantage when shooting from above
  • Ruger is competely accurate even while mid air, due to that it's required to hit 2 heat shots to do a 2 hit kill, it also has bink, so a missed shot or a rush down will counter it
  • Minimi has taken the AK bullet speed, and is now a rushing mid range weapon, with higher reliablity due to it's high mag capacity, fires a bit faster than previously
  • AK has a slow rate of fire, but has the shortest TTK if you hit every shot as a headshot. Due to it's lower rate of fire, a missed shot is punished harder than with other guns
  • Barret only has a tiny bit shorter fire interval, to buff it slightly. Otherwise you still need to prone mid air to be accurate
« Last Edit: January 03, 2018, 12:52:01 am by ginn »

Offline duz

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #43 on: January 03, 2018, 07:04:59 pm »
Ak-47 Is not making much sense. There's no way to control self-bink, other than to stop shooting for a while. Bink and movement acc does not work like this anymore https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8q-VM9410U , you cannot reset the bink between shots.

This is interesting because after some years away I just can't understand the Weapons.ini anymore.
There's movacc, bink, spread, recoil and looks like these vars are badly used.
Almost no weapon use some of these vars, then I read this part of your post and I thought: what tf is going on ??? !!!

You seem engaged to improve the WM. Is it true that there's some variables being horribly used?
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Offline ginn

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #44 on: January 03, 2018, 08:07:49 pm »
Ak-47 Is not making much sense. There's no way to control self-bink, other than to stop shooting for a while. Bink and movement acc does not work like this anymore https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8q-VM9410U , you cannot reset the bink between shots.

This is interesting because after some years away I just can't understand the Weapons.ini anymore.
There's movacc, bink, spread, recoil and looks like these vars are badly used.
Almost no weapon use some of these vars, then I read this part of your post and I thought: what tf is going on ??? !!!

You seem engaged to improve the WM. Is it true that there's some variables being horribly used?
So, recoil is strictly a realistic mode variable, it's the weapon kick, how your mouse moves upwards.

Movement acc is inaccuracy caused by using jets, holding movement keys, or being in the air. The only way to shoot accurately if the gun has movement acc is to either stand firmly on the ground, or to prone mid air. With Barrett, if you hit prone just before you start holding your fire key, you should have entered prone by the time you fire, resulting in a perfectly accurate shot (personally I think this is a good mechanic, because you need to be aware when to prone, and for example, somebody attacking from above/below means they can run past resulting in the barretter needing to unprone).

Now, bink is when the cursor gets bigger, either from shooting (self-bink), or by being hit by bullets (bink). This works like a gauge, it fills up by the self-bink/bink value everything you shoot/get hit, and then falls down during the time you're not.
Previously, the bink mechanic worked differently. You could imagine this as a guage, it fills up whenever you're firing your weapon, we'll call this the "stored bink"... However, everytime you release your fire key, the bink build up resets, this we can call the "building bink". So essentially after you've released and started holding fire key, even if it's 1/10th  of a second (required for steyr), the building bink gauge will start at zero.
You'd still be affected by bink, because your inaccuracy would be determined by your "stored bink" would have a higher value than your "building bink". The "stored bink" will however continue to decrease until the "building bink" value became equal or greater than the "stored bink".
With that, you could "abuse" bink. By never building up your "stored bink" high, always resetting your bink and keeping it at a very low value, resulting in minuscule inaccuracy.

Now, movement acc and bink had a different interaction between each other. As long as there was any bink active, such as 1 (not noticable), it would overried a any value of movement acc. This meant that you could move with a gun that had high movement acc without being affected by it, because your handling of bink would over ride it.

The way bink works now is that there's no "building bink", the stored bink is always the active bink, and whenver you fire your gun it adds bink to the stored bink. By letting got of the fire key to then start holding will not cause it to reduce, it will continue to build as if nothing happened. This means the only way to minimize the bink is to shoot slower than the bink value (if your bink is lower than your fire rate, it will never build up bink, despite having bink).

Additionally, movement acc is no longer overridden by bink, it only adds to the inaccuracy caused by bink.

Spread is a new thing added in, it's purspose was mostly to override bink, and the animation bug. Previously, the inaccuracy in mp5 was because of the "fire animation" was longer than the fire interval, making the gun become inaccurate. You could notice this on the first bullet of steyr too (first bullet was true to aim, the others shot above your crosshair).

I've been fairly engage with the WM, talking with Falcon about it, who were seemingly fairly positive to it. I also had help with servers from Helloer and Azwraith. I did run a gather server for testing, and I put together a "weapons balance team", of tanaka (good player over all), huudi and kenix (strong ruger and deagle players - I have poor "relations" to these players, but personal opinions of somebody shouldn't hinder the development of the wm), and some others who seemed eager to help out in the wm making.
That's why this is so frustrating, since I was told that if I did a good job with the WM, it would be used. That changed when the lead programmer changed, now darDar has full power over wm.

I do not understand why my wm couldn't be used. If people prefer my wm over darDars wms, then why not use mine? Is it a fear that people would actually prefer mine over his? I don't know, and I don't understand.

Offline ginn

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #45 on: January 03, 2018, 11:54:50 pm »
I've changed some stuff on mine, AK now shoots faster since some felt the fire rate was too slow (altered damage too ofc), however the bullet speed remains to be of the original minimi (and minimi bulletspeed is still original AK).
AK (40% of previous version), Steyr and Minimi (35% of previous version) have a tiny bit of movement acc, since some players felt it was too accurate. I am aware that players have become used to very inaccurate weapons, so a tiny bit of movement acc may make players feel more comfortable (even though I still would argue no movement acc is better).
Some modifications to DEs, 9 bullets, shoots faster, 4 hit kill. Maybe be UP, but it seemed a bit OP.

Code: [Select]
[Info]
Name=Ginns WM
Version=1.02

[Desert Eagles]
Damage=1.2
FireInterval=21
Ammo=9
ReloadTime=70
Speed=19
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.0
BulletSpread=0.0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0176
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[HK MP5]
Damage=0.905
FireInterval=6
Ammo=32
ReloadTime=105
Speed=18.9
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0.09
Recoil=0
Push=0.0112
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[Ak-74]
Damage=0.76
FireInterval=10
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=165
Speed=27
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.0045
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.01615
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.95

[Steyr AUG]
Damage=0.615
FireInterval=7
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=125
Speed=26
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.0045
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.006
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.254
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.95

[Spas-12]
Damage=0.95
FireInterval=34
Ammo=7
ReloadTime=165
Speed=14
BulletStyle=3
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0.8
Recoil=0
Push=0.015
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[Ruger 77]
Damage=2.185
FireInterval=42
Ammo=4
ReloadTime=90
Speed=33
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=12
MovementAcc=0.0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.012
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.245
ModifierChest=0.84
ModifierLegs=0.84

[M79]
Damage=1550
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=178
Speed=10.7
BulletStyle=4
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.036
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=1

[Barret M82A1]
Damage=4.45
FireInterval=210
Ammo=10
ReloadTime=70
Speed=55
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=19
Bink=45
MovementAcc=0.05
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.018
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[FN Minimi]
Damage=0.82
FireInterval=9
Ammo=50
ReloadTime=250
Speed=24.6
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.0045
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.015136
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.95

[XM214 Minigun]
Damage=0.333
FireInterval=3
Ammo=100
ReloadTime=360
Speed=29
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=15
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.0
BulletSpread=0.3
Recoil=0
Push=0.0104
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.85

[USSOCOM]
Damage=1.15
FireInterval=10
Ammo=12
ReloadTime=60
Speed=19
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.02
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.95

[Combat Knife]
Damage=2150
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=3
Speed=6
BulletStyle=11
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.12
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Chainsaw]
Damage=50
FireInterval=2
Ammo=200
ReloadTime=110
Speed=8
BulletStyle=11
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0028
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=0.9

[M72 LAW]
Damage=1550
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=300
Speed=23
BulletStyle=12
StartUpTime=13
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.028
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Punch]
Damage=330
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=3
Speed=5
BulletStyle=6
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Grenade]
Damage=1500
FireInterval=80
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=20
Speed=5
BulletStyle=2
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0
InheritedVelocity=1
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[Stationary Gun]
Damage=1.8
FireInterval=10
Ammo=100
ReloadTime=366
Speed=36
BulletStyle=14
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0088
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.85

[Flamer]
Damage=19
FireInterval=6
Ammo=200
ReloadTime=5
Speed=10.5
BulletStyle=5
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.016
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Rambo Bow]
Damage=12
FireInterval=10
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=25
Speed=21
BulletStyle=7
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0148
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Flamed Arrows]
Damage=8
FireInterval=10
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=39
Speed=18
BulletStyle=8
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

Another version which may fall into dardars taste more, this one is essentially the same as the first one I suggested, but AK has a little bit of spread, while minimi has some movement acc, also AK now has it's standard bullet speed (no longer minimis), and minimi has it's standard bulletspeed (no longer AKs)
Code: [Select]
[Info]
Name=Ginns WM
Version=2.00

[Desert Eagles]
Damage=1.35
FireInterval=24
Ammo=7
ReloadTime=70
Speed=19
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.0
BulletSpread=0.0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0176
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=0.9
ModifierLegs=0.9

[HK MP5]
Damage=0.875
FireInterval=6
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=105
Speed=18.9
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0.09
Recoil=0
Push=0.0112
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[Ak-74]
Damage=0.82
FireInterval=10
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=165
Speed=24.6
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.0
BulletSpread=0.04
Recoil=0
Push=0.01346
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.9
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Steyr AUG]
Damage=0.525
FireInterval=7
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=125
Speed=26
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.006
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.254
ModifierChest=0.85
ModifierLegs=0.85

[Spas-12]
Damage=0.875
FireInterval=34
Ammo=7
ReloadTime=165
Speed=14
BulletStyle=3
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0.8
Recoil=0
Push=0.015
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[Ruger 77]
Damage=2.185
FireInterval=45
Ammo=4
ReloadTime=90
Speed=33
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=14
MovementAcc=0.0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.012
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.245
ModifierChest=0.84
ModifierLegs=0.84

[M79]
Damage=1550
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=178
Speed=10.7
BulletStyle=4
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.036
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=1

[Barret M82A1]
Damage=4.45
FireInterval=210
Ammo=10
ReloadTime=70
Speed=55
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=19
Bink=45
MovementAcc=0.05
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.018
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[FN Minimi]
Damage=0.747
FireInterval=9
Ammo=50
ReloadTime=250
Speed=27
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.00725
BulletSpread=0.0
Recoil=0
Push=0.015136
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.9
ModifierLegs=0.9

[XM214 Minigun]
Damage=0.333
FireInterval=3
Ammo=100
ReloadTime=360
Speed=29
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=15
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.0
BulletSpread=0.3
Recoil=0
Push=0.0104
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.85

[USSOCOM]
Damage=1.15
FireInterval=10
Ammo=12
ReloadTime=60
Speed=19
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.02
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.9
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Combat Knife]
Damage=2150
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=3
Speed=6
BulletStyle=11
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.12
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Chainsaw]
Damage=50
FireInterval=2
Ammo=200
ReloadTime=110
Speed=8
BulletStyle=11
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0028
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=0.9

[M72 LAW]
Damage=1550
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=300
Speed=23
BulletStyle=12
StartUpTime=13
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.028
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Punch]
Damage=330
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=3
Speed=5
BulletStyle=6
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Grenade]
Damage=1500
FireInterval=80
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=20
Speed=5
BulletStyle=2
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0
InheritedVelocity=1
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[Stationary Gun]
Damage=1.8
FireInterval=10
Ammo=100
ReloadTime=366
Speed=36
BulletStyle=14
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0088
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.85

[Flamer]
Damage=19
FireInterval=6
Ammo=200
ReloadTime=5
Speed=10.5
BulletStyle=5
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.016
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Rambo Bow]
Damage=12
FireInterval=10
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=25
Speed=21
BulletStyle=7
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0148
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Flamed Arrows]
Damage=8
FireInterval=10
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=39
Speed=18
BulletStyle=8
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

It can be tested at IP: node-de4.gshost.us Port: 25460 Pass: 123 (continuously restarting atm, dunno why)
It's EU based server. If there's people wanting to play 3v3, then make room for them.

You can use !wm 100/101/102/200/201 to switch between the different versions, and only "!wm" to load the default 1.7.1(c) wm.
I've added !w 0-16 0-16 to select your weapons, use !help to figure out which number is which secondary.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 06:48:02 am by ginn »

Offline duz

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #46 on: January 04, 2018, 07:24:44 am »
Oops, sorry about the "recoil". I'm not playing since the SWC 2011, just few matches on pub servers, I forgot that this var even existed in the past.
I'm used to the movacc mechanics. I was just confused because it was really easy to know how each thing worked and now there's all this mess (looks a mess to me), a var that override other etc.

In your opinion, there's a better way to handle all these things, maybe with less vars or something? Is it a good system to you?
The dmg modifiers looks like an improvement, but I can't say the same about the rest.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2018, 07:26:58 am by duz »
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Offline ginn

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  • Posts: 474
Re: Current WM
« Reply #47 on: January 06, 2018, 08:59:34 am »
For unfortunate reasons, I can't have my wm server on the official gather discord channel.

You can join at soldat://node-de4.gshost.us:25460/123 to test my wm out (use !wm 219 to enable it while in the server). To add to a gather you use !add, to remove you use !remove, to see who's added use !who.
From previous versions, current wm has less damage.

Code: [Select]
[Info]
Name=Ginns WM
Version=2.19

[Desert Eagles]
Damage=1.55
FireInterval=24
Ammo=7
ReloadTime=70
Speed=19
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.0
BulletSpread=0.0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0176
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.10
ModifierChest=0.9
ModifierLegs=0.9

[HK MP5]
Damage=0.75
FireInterval=6
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=105
Speed=18.9
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0.11
Recoil=0
Push=0.0112
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[Ak-74]
Damage=0.95
FireInterval=11
Ammo=35
ReloadTime=165
Speed=24.6
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=-12
MovementAcc=0.0015
BulletSpread=0.0
Recoil=0
Push=0.015136
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.9
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Steyr AUG]
Damage=0.58
FireInterval=7
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=125
Speed=26
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.005
BulletSpread=0.02
Recoil=0
Push=0.0084
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.9
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Spas-12]
Damage=0.95
FireInterval=34
Ammo=7
ReloadTime=165
Speed=14
BulletStyle=3
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0.8
Recoil=0
Push=0.022
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[Ruger 77]
Damage=2.1
FireInterval=45
Ammo=4
ReloadTime=90
Speed=33
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=14
MovementAcc=0.008
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.012
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.245
ModifierChest=0.8
ModifierLegs=0.8

[M79]
Damage=1550
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=178
Speed=10.7
BulletStyle=4
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.036
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Barret M82A1]
Damage=4.45
FireInterval=210
Ammo=10
ReloadTime=70
Speed=55
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=19
Bink=55
MovementAcc=0.05
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.018
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[FN Minimi]
Damage=0.65
FireInterval=9
Ammo=50
ReloadTime=250
Speed=27
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.0
BulletSpread=0.06
Recoil=0
Push=0.0128
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.9
ModifierLegs=0.9

[XM214 Minigun]
Damage=0.5475
FireInterval=6
Ammo=100
ReloadTime=365
Speed=29
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=19
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.025
BulletSpread=0.04
Recoil=0
Push=0.00125
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.00
ModifierChest=0.9
ModifierLegs=0.9

[USSOCOM]
Damage=1.1
FireInterval=11
Ammo=12
ReloadTime=60
Speed=19
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.02
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.9
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Combat Knife]
Damage=2150
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=3
Speed=6
BulletStyle=11
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.12
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Chainsaw]
Damage=50
FireInterval=2
Ammo=200
ReloadTime=110
Speed=8
BulletStyle=11
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0028
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=0.9

[M72 LAW]
Damage=1550
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=300
Speed=23
BulletStyle=12
StartUpTime=13
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.028
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Punch]
Damage=330
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=3
Speed=5
BulletStyle=6
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Grenade]
Damage=1500
FireInterval=80
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=20
Speed=5
BulletStyle=2
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0
InheritedVelocity=1
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[Stationary Gun]
Damage=1.8
FireInterval=10
Ammo=100
ReloadTime=366
Speed=36
BulletStyle=14
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0088
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.85

[Flamer]
Damage=19
FireInterval=6
Ammo=200
ReloadTime=5
Speed=10.5
BulletStyle=5
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.016
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Rambo Bow]
Damage=12
FireInterval=10
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=25
Speed=21
BulletStyle=7
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0148
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Flamed Arrows]
Damage=8
FireInterval=10
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=39
Speed=18
BulletStyle=8
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

This is using dardars idea for the minigun, but because of how the game handles fire intervals below 6, it's fairly useless for surfing, here's an exampe. https://my.mixtape.moe/tjmnaf.webm
You need to update your position to be able to change where the server registers your aim, when your fire rate is below 6.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 05:00:01 pm by ginn »

Offline Petterkowski

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  • Posts: 96
Re: Current WM
« Reply #48 on: January 15, 2018, 08:08:40 pm »

General Changes:


- overall lower damage
Okay, i played few games and i stand behind my words. I don't think that the "damage" itself is a problem. So, realistically I believe the current problem is that there's just too far a gap right now between newbies and somewhat experienced players. When pros get a lead, it creates problems for the rest of the players because of the massive difference. Youngsters/unskilleds die far faster than they should be able to only because pros obviously become unkillable machines for them. People tend to pin point this as a "high damage problem", and it is.. but there's no way to simply lump it all into one category like that.

The real problem at hand is more or less a lack of "scaling/matchmaking/classes" issue and with the insane amount of experienced players. There are just too many different factors that you would need to consider to effectively solve the issue. At any rate, lowering damage output across the board won't solve anything. If that happened, pros will be more unkillable than ever before and basically every skilled player will become an unbearable task for any beginner, due to how hard they'll be to take down. In my opinion, a good starting point should always be to increase the chances on early games, to encourage new players to invest more into the game.

But that's just me speculating.

Just simply tuning down the overall damage might not actually accomplish much other than give a placebo effect for a short while if the actual cause of the damage creep isn't narrowed down. If you recall former minimi 1.5 reduced damage masteries and a few days after that patch there was a quarrel about how fights seemed to last longer. That's the type of placebo effect I'm refering to. Could just be that damage feels high because the level progression is so fast and the skill gap is so deep, but that's not the damage problem.

And once again:

Long, in-depth explanation why the current weapon mod is good

Why it's good to have low TTK nowadays. High TTK vs Medium TTK vs Low TTK

In-depth clarification; LOW TTK vs HIGH TTK

Lower damage makes pro games less interesting to watch, and let's be honest, many beginners want to continue their journey with the game because they watched a cracking top tier game and they have a vision that one day they'll be playing like that. It's a fast paced game. Watching someone whittle down their opponent by consistently performing dull shots over the course of 2 minutes, and then finally going in for the risky kill isn't exciting. Playing with balls, going hand in hand and diving a pro at 100% health off position is.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 10:32:07 am by Petterkowski »


Once more into the fray...
Into the last good fight I'll ever know.
Live and die on this day...
Live and die on this day...

Offline ginn

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #49 on: January 16, 2018, 02:00:00 pm »
"pro play" has devolved into DM. Tactics and strategy is practically void, because there's no point in defending because of how quick and easy you can kill. The messed up med/nade-kit plays a large role in that though.

Offline urraka

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Re: Current WM
« Reply #50 on: January 16, 2018, 03:26:14 pm »
If we get significant changes in WM I hope we get a beta for long enough so we, the common public folks, get a chance to bitch about it before it's made official. I'm all for having it more newbie friendly (is that even possible?), but lower damage seems all the opposite to that and it would suck if the game starts feeling slower. I don't suppose gather players would fuck that up, though. But still would be nice to see it for myself in public servers. Also, how about adding something to such beta version to encourage players to come here and give their opinion on it? It would help to see the overall reaction to these changes.
urraka

Offline machina

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  • The world isn't nice. Why should I be...?
Re: Current WM
« Reply #51 on: January 16, 2018, 03:38:50 pm »
If we get significant changes in WM I hope we get a beta for long enough so we, the common public folks, get a chance to bitch about it before it's made official.
Having public beta would be real nice