Dear MM

[soldat-game]

soldat-game,
You have received a warning for insulting other users and/or staff members. Please cease these activities and abide by the forum rules otherwise we will take further action.
Regards,
The Official Soldat Forums Team.

Where is reference to expression?
What is bad in opinion in https://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=45088.0 "So nothing was done?" Why all time remove this post?

"Hey, I wrote messages on these topics (https://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=45088.0
https://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=45068.0), about deleting this message in this topic.
https://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=45088.0

"So nothing was done hahahahahaha" Rekt admins remove this all time why? It does not break the rules."

[Kenix]

I recently found myself with a bit more time and read through most of the posts in this thread. Thank you Coco for starting a discussion once again. It seems to have at least reached MM and I think this is where both the problem and solution lies.

If you look around the plethora of games these days (and past days) you'd have a hard time to find a game that equals Soldat, both community- and gameplay-wise. Soldat has a unique approach to what is probably the most successful game genre: Shooters. Contrary to most 2D shooter adaptions it has used the 2 dimensions it has to full potential: You need movement, aim, positioning, speed, intelligence and a good portion of cunningness in order to succeed at this game. In that sense it can measure itself with the greatest of the gaming world: Counterstrike, Battlefield, Dota, League of Legends, etc.
Because of the fact it has a near perfect gameplay by design and a good balance between the different requirements for reaching a high skill, it has succeeded in reaching something most (indie-)games would dream of: A dedicated community that even after more than a decade is still willing to jump into the trenches for their beloved game. Soldat has a real history, it has players that still think back to it after many years. It has volunteers that still work for this game with a fierce dedication.

Hence I consider Soldat a true masterpiece and I think it takes a truly talented artist to make such a game. For me this is exactly where the problem lies: The genius itself has completely forgotten how truly fucking great this game is that started it all for him. I can only speculate on the reasons for it. Maybe it is because he is ashamed of how foolishly some parts of it are coded? Maybe it reminds him of a past he isn't so eager to think back to? Or maybe he simply lost interest in this project. I don't know. But whatever it is, it shouldn't stop him.

Dear MM,
I am begging you. Find back to your very first roots. You are undoubtedly someone with a passion for games, especially for making them. You are fortunate enough to have the talent to make really good games happen that are very unique in this sector.
I am begging you to remind yourself of what has started this passion of yours, to remind yourself of your very first piece of art. I may have become very inactive, but I still follow Soldat. Because I truly love it. It's by FAR the best game I have ever played, because it is completely unique.  And I am only one of the many many people in this community. But we all share this same compassion.
I am asking you for the following: You have a full gaming company at your hands. Turn this game finally into what it always wanted to be: A magnificent piece of art, but this time polished. Invest some effort into this, however big or small. But it may be REAL effort, not just words.
So many have mentioned it here (in more or less fortunate words): Work on it, improve it (net code or lobby come to mind for example) - then: Advertise it with your reach that you have at your disposal. Help to bring a few new people into this community, because the community has the whole infrastructure for it. Thats the game you've created and by that the community you helped to create. It's a unique and amazing thing. Stop hiding this game as if it was an ugly child of yours. It is beautiful. And you should be god-damn fucking PROUD of it!
Please help us. Please help this community. Everyone here deserves it. Gives us the answer you promised 2 weeks ago. Give us some hope.


Dear Shoozza,
I have spoken to you back in the days from time to time. Not overly often, but sometimes. You actually always struck me as a reasonable kind of guy who's got his heart at the right place. That is of course also the only explanation why you would still be sticking with us, with Soldat. I don't question for a second that you have a deep compassion for this game. But what I have seen in this thread so far (and what I see in some of the accusations towards you here) reminds me a lot of previous experiences I have made with this community.
Soldat has a great community, because it's full of willing and dedicated people. However, it's also a very rough community, because it has always been a bay for people that are very dissatisfied with their lives. I don't know you nearly well enough to know whether you are a sensitive man or not. I was and therefor I know what can happen to sensitive people. When I became an SCTFL admin I was young, eager, dedicated and willing to change things. And I did. It earned me a bad reputation for many of my older colleagues and a generally good one with my new colleagues and the community. I never became the target of the community as a whole like you did. If I had, I don't know how I would have responded. When we, as humans, are sensitive we lean towards becoming unreasonable to protect ourselves. I've seen this with many of my colleagues, with other people in the community. I would do many things differently today. I've learned.
So, I can't really judge whether you are as sensitive as I am, but I am pretty sure you are. Most people are, it's not a weakness, it's actually a strength if you learn how to deal with it. I think you are a good man, Shoozza. But it also looks to me that you have been led astray a bit by your emotions. That is no judgmental accusation, rather take it as an advice from an old friend by heart who has made a ton of mistakes while he had a leading position in this community.
Many of the accusations people make in here are probably justified in some way. Some of them are way too toxic, and a few of them are certainly just wrong. And I think you know that, otherwise you wouldn't react in a defensive fashion. Let me tell you one thing: It doesn't really matter if some of these things are right. Let them be right, acknowledge them, because mistakes are completely normal. All of us have done so many of them. You grow by acknowledging them. And understand that most of the people that voice themselves in a disrespectful and insulting mostly mean well for the game too. They have never really learned how to deal with their emotions, have never really understood that making themselves really heard won't work over toxicity. Don't become one of those people.
So my advice for you is: Acknowledge your mistakes and learn from them. Come out of your shell and start replying to the people that need YOU. Start right here. The same goes for Michal Marcinkowski. If you want to improve things you need to start communicating. Communication is always the first step of improvement when we deal with other people.

I hope this doesn't go unheard. I hope it will see replies from Shoozza and MM, replies that we all dearly need.
I am aware it's just one of the many opinions that are voiced here. But I think if anything will happen to the game, the people that have to react now are the developers. That is namely Shoozza and MM (possibly even Transhuman Design).
I really wish Soldat will not just continue with its slow decay. It's truly a magnificent game. And everyone involved should be proud of it.

[Shoozza]

Thanks Kenix, for taking your time to write this reasonable post I am happy to finally have the time to reply to some threads and I think this one is my favorite one so far.

I don't deny that I didn't handle things in the best manner and made a lot of mistakes. I'm in charge for how things move forward and therefore I'm responsible for any  issues. That's how I see it and how I have worked in the past.
If I knew thinks would go this wrong I'd probably rethink picking up soldat again or at least plan accordingly.

There are times when it is easy to deal with toxicity and there are times when it is not, it depends on what else you have on your mind.

I'm fine with criticism and feedback. There are different was to communicate and I prefer one which doesn't require me to cut through anger, hate and/or trolling in a post to finally get to the important parts and think about how they can be resolved.
It is certainly true that a positive environment is helpful. This was why I asked if people could be less toxic and build a positive environment. I think it wasn't communicated well and people took it as criticism which is unfortunate.

As to why things got so silent: I think it is due to me being busier than ever before and also because I have less energy available to work on Soldat.

Dealing with toxic and/or distorted and negative stories about me isn't something I am interested in as it is eats a lot of time and energy to argue with people writing them.
Cutting down on things that make me lose energy was the logical first step. After all everyone wants a new version asap.
Another reason why I didn't reply was due to the fact that I almost didn't use my PC for the last few weeks. I tried to get some replacement parts for my laptop so I can do stuff on the go but so far I had bad luck with the parts I ordered.
I was really low on energy when the community got upset, and I hope you can understand that my plea for less toxicity was me asking for community support.

You probably read my post in which I mentioned my conversation with MM about the situation and you can see how he tried to lift me up.

I don't want to go too deep into what you wrote to MM but I can tell you that he decided to give soldat to the community by open sourcing it instead of keeping it a comercial game or investing money into it. This was something the community asked for and which I actually want to achive as well even though I keep thinking about the consequences for the community as it isn't without downsides.

Again thanks for your post, I'm glad we also have people like you in this community.

[Bistoufly]

Hey Shoozza. Glad to have you back!

[jrgp]

Thanks for the great post, Shoozza!

With regard to people being toxic in the community and mean trolling posts, I think everyone should read this book at least once in their lives as it makes it very clear that criticizing people never leads to positive results, and describes how you need to act and behave if you want other people to get things done.

The Soldat community and the world in general would be a much better place if everyone took the following to heart:

Don't criticize, condemn, or complain. Human nature does not like to admit fault. When people are criticized or humiliated, they rarely respond well and will often become defensive and resent their critic. To handle people well, we must never criticize, condemn or complain because it will never result in the behavior we desire.

Give honest and sincere appreciation. Appreciation is one of the most powerful tools in the world. People will rarely work at their maximum potential under criticism, but honest appreciation brings out their best. Appreciation, though, is not simple flattery, it must be sincere, meaningful and with love.

Arouse in the other person an eager want. To get what we want from another person, we must forget our own perspective and begin to see things from the point of view of others. When we can combine our desires with their wants, they become eager to work with us and we can mutually achieve our objectives.

[ShioN]

Long Live Soldat.

Long Live Shoozza!

[Akinaro]

Thanks for the great post, Shoozza!

With regard to people being toxic in the community and mean trolling posts, I think everyone should read this book at least once in their lives as it makes it very clear that criticizing people never leads to positive results, and describes how you need to act and behave if you want other people to get things done.

The Soldat community and the world in general would be a much better place if everyone took the following to heart:

And I would recommend checking "reality" at least one time in your life. Then you will realize that most amazing inventions and ideas where made under the pressure of work or during the wars. Best people and best inventions where made not because everyone fake-praise them, but because they worked in times where everyone where against them not believing that they manage to finish their work. This show real character of person, who can deal with their own mistakes and negative opinions and do what no one believed is possible.

Reality is best teacher, and there is just no "self-help" book that teach you how to work, live and deal with problems. Not to mention that any book like that(even if that one was more or less first in genre) clearly show that some people seriously need help, because if you looking for life related solutions in a book, you have serious issues..
Its really like listening someone talking about fixing diesel engine and all his knowledge is based on book... You see, sometimes in your life you need to get dirty to learn things, you cant spend time looking for fancy quotes, but it not really help you.


But most obvious problem here is not your recommended book, but really lame attempt to cover problems of Soldat under "Drama" or "Toxic in the community." label.
You literally pretend that there is no problems, its all drama, and everything is fine, when rest of people just express their opinion. But for you, any negative opinion is "toxic" and we all should really just prise each other no matter of what we do. Its literally what make community "toxic". Pretending that its kindergarten, and everyone should get star in their homework, even if they didnt do it properly.

Right now no one really care about few people who still lick each other butts pretending its candy. Majority of people said what they think, and I dont mean this forum only. People who where responsible for Soldat for past years screwed up so hard that it should be in Guinness World Records book, and what people really did, was nothing more than pointing out that. But for you its "toxic". OK. you can sit near MM and pretend that its 0.1% of community. And do exactly the same thing as for last 10 years not trying to fix problems at all...


Beside, you give us just perfect example of  cancer that eat society for past years, where instead of teaching  kids and people how to work hard, how to deal with obstacles in life, we teach them to apologize for everything and pretend that everything is ok. its literally trying to live in fake world.

Of course negative opinions are hard to swallow, but no one here really said anything that is not true.
Did MM pissed on his own life work that put him where he is now? Yes.
Did Shoozza screwed up as dev leader? yes.
Does people behind Soldat screwed up planing and advertising of Soldat to prepare it for major changes? yep.
Does people who worked with soldat for past years should prepare it for big updates/steam long time ago? yes.
Do Soldat need right now major changes in how its made and published? of course!

Point is that not many people left playing Soldat, and all what you have now is maybe 100 angry and tired people who want just proper game updates and development process. Not some rushed updates just for steam, that dont change anything.

[jrgp]

Akinaro, what I'm getting at are not the points being raised themselves, but the phrasing, delivery, and tone which makes them toxic.

Take a look at Kenix's post for an example of a well written and polite post (which actually garnered a reply from Shoozza), and on the other end of the spectrum take a look at your post history.

[Viral]

The phrasing/tone is adequate to the situation. We had opportunity to make some progress and change something and then people were making valid posts and discussion. The circus rolled out when MM and Shosho made some claims and promises and once again didn't stick to them. We were sitting silently on servers with growing confidence, that all the points made against MN's decisions and current dev(s) progress were true.
Once people get actually mad, cause somebody spit at them once again, dude comes back claiming it's the harsh words turned it all into crumble. Try to read a book about growin up, because when someone complains about the negative attitute and on the other hand doesn't keep his promises, it's the only thing i can recommend. If u want to be respected, you have to respect others.
And then we get that devlog that even Loner's writting abilities couldn't help.
And then Shoozza comes back and claims he couldn't post cause his PC broke. Probably smartphone died in the same accident. Im not surprised he didnt respond and I personally don't see why would he need to, cause there is nothing really to respond to anymore. The history tells that Sho "came back" more times than he actually came back, if u catch my drift.
I'm just bitter because we had and alternative, and each official post and passing days proves that the alternative was the only way.

[Ygrek Starmagedon]

Akinaro just writes the hard truth, Viral same and the other guys too, it's their opinions, presonally I also agree with them (it's to the point that I agree literally with all posts that Akinaro write).
People are just mad (mostly those on forum) and dissapointed (those who plays game regulary or even those who come back to check what's going on cause they heard that Soldat is going on Steam) cause of those promises that you couldn't keep. Nearly whole of players are so dissapointed that Steam wasn't released yet (in December), those who come back are just like "wtf, they didn't do shit again, fu this game, see you later next month, half year or year."
Never promise if you are not gonna do it, and if you promise plz maybe try doing it at least.
OK, Shoozza finally posted that he made some mistakes etc, but posting on forum isn't what Soldat's need. What it needs are fixes and working hard on update, not complaining about shit and posting shit. If community is toxic... just don't read this damned forum and get to work. Shoozza don't even need to post dev logs himself so... just do it! You gonna post when you reach some milestone of update, then you gonna be like "stfu, look what I done, bye, goin back to work, I don't have time to make toxic drama over there".

[Shoozza]

Akinaro, what I'm getting at are not the points being raised themselves, but the phrasing, delivery, and tone which makes them toxic.

Take a look at Kenix's post for an example of a well written and polite post (which actually garnered a reply from Shoozza), and on the other end of the spectrum take a look at your post history.

I think it is an attempt of him justifying his style of writing.

You don't have to pack your post with generalizations, accusations and superlatives.
Just deliver your points in a non charged way.

There is not even a need to put a positive spin on it if you don't add anything in a negative tone.

[Akinaro]

I really dont care if someone like my writing style or not, but that is not the point here.

Its not a beauty content, and Im not a person who gonna pretend to be nice just because you cant handle negative opinions. If someone deserved to be treated nicely, I will treat them nicely, but if someone F things up for years, and then when people finally point it out, he show up pretending that his computer was broken, all what he can get is laugh and slap in the face with facts.


For years people tried to point out what was wrong, and you completely ignored them, in the same time you covered yourself with users that just lick each other prising you no matter what you make. Now they all gone because there is a limit for how long you can pretend being nice.
 
There is no other way to point things up now beside slap you in the face with a bat and shout "wake up!".

But Im guessing that its also not gonna help, because without proper shake-up, Soldat will never stand up from its knees, and its look like MM dont really want make his hand dirty to fix its own child.

[Shoozza]

I really dont care if someone like my writing style or not, but that is not the point here.

It's not about liking but about effectiveness and reaching your goals.

Its not a beauty content, and Im not a person who gonna pretend to be nice just because you cant handle negative opinions. If someone deserved to be treated nicely, I will treat them nicely, but if someone F things up for years, and then when people finally point it out, he show up pretending that his computer was broken, all what he can get is laugh and slap in the face with facts.

See my post above, you don't have to pretend, just cut out the generalizations, accusations and superlatives.

For years people tried to point out what was wrong, and you completely ignored them, in the same time you covered yourself with users that just lick each other prising you no matter what you make. Now they all gone because there is a limit for how long you can pretend being nice.

See the two parts above.

There is no other way to point things up now beside slap you in the face with a bat and shout "wake up!".

But Im guessing that its also not gonna help, because without proper shake-up, Soldat will never stand up from its knees, and its look like MM dont really want make his hand dirty to fix its own child.

The shake up worked in the opposite way. Not sure how continuing with it will do any good now. At least if the goal is to get me to work on the game.

[Akinaro]

I, and probably everyone else would be really happy if you would spend  such amount of energy an time to reply to all comments that we had for past months instead of being mad at my post.

Seriously, Im amazed that you actually spend time replaying it instead of defending yourself and your work, and replying to all remaining players who clearly post lots of smaller questions that need answers.

But ok, If you want play dumb and pretend that everything is fine, I dont mind, for me its actually entertaining to watch how you all treat players like morons and play "drama" card over and over instead of actually fix what need to be fixed.

Because its clear that development of Soldat was broken, you are one of biggest reason of that, and it need serious shake-up and personal changes in team. So if for past good 10 years none of you managed to actually do anything, its clear that current development dont work properly and MM as owner need to make new proper team with proper dev structure where everyone do their jobs as they need to.

[Shoozza]

I, and probably everyone else would be really happy if you would spend such amount of energy an time to reply to all comments that we had for past months instead of being mad at my post.

That is unreasonable. I already asked for a proper thread to discuss the issues. See my other thread about that.

Seriously, Im amazed surpsised that you actually spend time replaying to my postit instead of defending yourself and your work, and replying to all remaining players who clearly post lots of smaller questions that need answers.

Also see above.

But ok, If you want play dumb and pretend that everything think is fine, I dont mind, for me its actually entertaining to watch how you all treat players like morons and play "drama" card over and over instead of actually fix what need to be fixed.

You seem to have a hard time learning. Read my post about effectiveness and goals.

Because its clear that development of Soldat was broken, you are one of biggest reason of that, and it need serious shake-up and personal changes in team. So if for past good 10 years none of you managed to actually do anything, its clear that current development dont work properly and MM as owner need to make new proper team with proper dev structure where everyone do their jobs as they need to.

See my previous reply and my reply to Kenix.


I'm a tired telling you the same thing over and over again, so please either actually read and understand what people are telling you or stop posting.
However since your goal seems to get rid of me, I suggest you just stop posting until you are ready to work with instead of against the people who work on soldat.

[GymPolice]

I admire your patience with subjects such as egos bloated up like that. To be honest, I'd probably give them a swing with the hammer. It's nice to see you putting up with idiotic dogmatism as presented here.

What I can add to the discussion going on here from a perspective of someone who hasn't been involved with anything for almost 2 years now is that you gotta take your time with the Steam release. You have strong contenders there, and since we live in a time where you have a plethora of games to choose from, Western gamers want to get into the action immediatly. If they run into trouble with settings / bugs etc. in the first 30 minutes of playing a new game, they'll just drop it and play something else. The last thing we want to do now is rush the release with a set date and fuck it up big time.

You go Shoozza.

[ShioN]

I admire your patience with subjects such as egos bloated up like that. To be honest, I'd probably give them a swing with the hammer. It's nice to see you putting up with idiotic dogmatism as presented here.

What I can add to the discussion going on here from a perspective of someone who hasn't been involved with anything for almost 2 years now is that you gotta take your time with the Steam release. You have strong contenders there, and since we live in a time where you have a plethora of games to choose from, Western gamers want to get into the action immediatly. If they run into trouble with settings / bugs etc. in the first 30 minutes of playing a new game, they'll just drop it and play something else. The last thing we want to do now is rush the release with a set date and fuck it up big time.

You go Shoozza.

You want to deliver the game full for free. Why dont you charge $5 like someone mentioned earlier, for the full game (you can throw in a little surprise, a new feature/option?). (lots of rich soldaters $$ dont lie xd)
Having payed for a game on steam makes it more appealing to spend time on it playing than on a game that was given free. (talking about players on steam that dont know soldatito)
On the other hand this would help as motivation for you to make more time to develop the game. (Shoozita)

All could go better than expected.
The community can give back too.

[Shoozza]

I admire your patience with subjects such as egos bloated up like that. To be honest, I'd probably give them a swing with the hammer. It's nice to see you putting up with idiotic dogmatism as presented here.

What I can add to the discussion going on here from a perspective of someone who hasn't been involved with anything for almost 2 years now is that you gotta take your time with the Steam release. You have strong contenders there, and since we live in a time where you have a plethora of games to choose from, Western gamers want to get into the action immediatly. If they run into trouble with settings / bugs etc. in the first 30 minutes of playing a new game, they'll just drop it and play something else. The last thing we want to do now is rush the release with a set date and fuck it up big time.

You go Shoozza.

You want to deliver the game full for free. Why dont you charge $5 like someone mentioned earlier, for the full game (you can throw in a little surprise, a new feature/option?). (lots of rich soldaters $$ dont lie xd)
Having payed for a game on steam makes it more appealing to spend time on it playing than on a game that was given free. (talking about players on steam that dont know soldatito)
On the other hand this would help as motivation for you to make more time to develop the game. (Shoozita)

All could go better than expected.
The community can give back too.

That's up to MM, he chose to make it freeware.
I never worked on the game for financial gains though, so not sure if it willl motivate me more.

[ShioN]

That's up to MM, he chose to make it freeware.
I never worked on the game for financial gains though, so not sure if it willl motivate me more.

Most soldaters are happy about the free game so we cant take it away, agreed.
Im glad you dont want to open source yet and that you noticed some guys wanted to make you rage quit in some way.
Not cool guys, not very gentlemanly.

[ginn]

I admire your patience with subjects such as egos bloated up like that. To be honest, I'd probably give them a swing with the hammer. It's nice to see you putting up with idiotic dogmatism as presented here.

What I can add to the discussion going on here from a perspective of someone who hasn't been involved with anything for almost 2 years now is that you gotta take your time with the Steam release. You have strong contenders there, and since we live in a time where you have a plethora of games to choose from, Western gamers want to get into the action immediatly. If they run into trouble with settings / bugs etc. in the first 30 minutes of playing a new game, they'll just drop it and play something else. The last thing we want to do now is rush the release with a set date and fuck it up big time.

You go Shoozza.

Aren't you Cast? I think Cast was using that exact pic at least.

Akinaro, what I'm getting at are not the points being raised themselves, but the phrasing, delivery, and tone which makes them toxic.

Take a look at Kenix's post for an example of a well written and polite post (which actually garnered a reply from Shoozza), and on the other end of the spectrum take a look at your post history.

I think it is an attempt of him justifying his style of writing.

You don't have to pack your post with generalizations, accusations and superlatives.
Just deliver your points in a non charged way.

There is not even a need to put a positive spin on it if you don't add anything in a negative tone.

Some people in the "community" should take some time and try to figure out why people put some negative charge behind some posts. May have something to do with ignoring, and a very large does of egocentrism from certain "community leaders".

There's such a huge amount of ass-licking going on in this community, it's insane. Well, certainly lots of other games and communities has that, and they probably run by the same rules. Which is basically, "admin everyone who's licking your ass", "never punish those who lick your ass" and "never cause any drama is a fellow admin abuses their power".

Just looking at the interactions with one another tells you how fake their relationships are, there's nothing there other than the mutual butt kissing that's been going on for a few years.
At least one person on the discord channel has been permanently banned because he "flamed" admins, or talked back at them (telling the admin he sucked at the game), obvoiusly by abusing admin powers to create a situation where the admin can "justify" the ban. Meanwhile, there are hackers who've been caught 3x or more who still are free to play on that channel, pretty much because they've licked enough butt.

Hopefully that helps in your pondering of why some people charges their posts with a negative tone.