Author Topic: Final proposal for better balancing of the game  (Read 590 times)

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Offline ginn

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Final proposal for better balancing of the game
« on: May 02, 2018, 01:26:14 pm »
This is not part of Weapon Balance discussion.

I initially had a deal with Falcon that whichever WM was better would be selected for Soldat, since that's what's best for soldat.
Unfortunately Falcon stepped down as dev lead, and Shoozza became dev lead instead. He doesn't care much for soldat, and so since darDar has somehow become Weapon Balance leader (I think thanks to fryer... Good job fryer...), whatever darDar coughs up will be the wm.

The problem with this is that darDar has already created a catastrophically bad WM before. He's always ignored the WM teams input unless it was what he wanted to hear. On top of that, he's actually never been a good player, I still don't think he has much understanding of how the game works.
His WM is very unbalanced, at least until the latest version, Stery has been an absolutely dominating gun (mp5 and spas being viable).
He never even noticed how the med/nade-kit spawning system changed.

So, as a final proposal, I've created my own WM.
This has gone through a lot of testing, and people have actively supported my WM, going out of their way to play it, because they find darDars wm bad and likely believe he's incapable of actually developing one.
When I made changes to it I've asked people for input, and then made adjustment to the guns. Even though my initial reaction may be negative to a change, I've actually gone through to change them, against my own vision and will for the WM.
The end result is much better than if i had created a WM without any input, my own vision for the WM was flawed.

I'm an experienced player, I've actually changed the meta.
So this is my final proposal, for the WM. Although I'll take my leave from this community, I believe to at least give an option to the remainder of the community is better than nothing. People such as Denacke may be able to take over the work, or making final adjustments if it's needed.
I believe it's highly important to revert the changes made to med/nade-kit spawning, too.

Code: [Select]
[Info]
Name=Ginns WM
Version=2.34

[Desert Eagles]
Damage=1.7
FireInterval=22
Ammo=7
ReloadTime=70
Speed=19
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.0
BulletSpread=0.0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0176
InheritedVelocity=0.01
ModifierHead=1.10
ModifierChest=0.9
ModifierLegs=0.9

[HK MP5]
Damage=0.9
FireInterval=6
Ammo=32
ReloadTime=105
Speed=18.9
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0.11
Recoil=0
Push=0.0112
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[Ak-74]
Damage=0.91
FireInterval=10
Ammo=40
ReloadTime=165
Speed=24.6
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=-11
MovementAcc=0.0
BulletSpread=0.0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0121
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.9
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Steyr AUG]
Damage=0.642
FireInterval=7
Ammo=27
ReloadTime=125
Speed=26
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.01
BulletSpread=0.0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0077
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.9
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Spas-12]
Damage=0.985
FireInterval=34
Ammo=8
ReloadTime=165
Speed=14
BulletStyle=3
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0.6
Recoil=0
Push=0.022
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[Ruger 77]
Damage=2.6
FireInterval=44
Ammo=4
ReloadTime=85
Speed=33
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=12
MovementAcc=0.015
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.012
InheritedVelocity=0.01
ModifierHead=1.12
ModifierChest=0.865
ModifierLegs=0.74

[M79]
Damage=1550
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=176
Speed=10.7
BulletStyle=4
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.036
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Barret M82A1]
Damage=4.45
FireInterval=210
Ammo=6
ReloadTime=130
Speed=55
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=20
Bink=50
MovementAcc=0.055
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.018
InheritedVelocity=0.01
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[FN Minimi]
Damage=0.747
FireInterval=9
Ammo=50
ReloadTime=250
Speed=27
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.00045
BulletSpread=0.055
Recoil=0
Push=0.010395
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.9
ModifierLegs=0.9

[XM214 Minigun]
Damage=0.6125
FireInterval=6
Ammo=100
ReloadTime=365
Speed=29
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=13
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.02
BulletSpread=0.045
Recoil=0
Push=0.002
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.00
ModifierChest=0.9
ModifierLegs=0.9

[USSOCOM]
Damage=1.24
FireInterval=10
Ammo=14
ReloadTime=60
Speed=19
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.02
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.9
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Combat Knife]
Damage=2150
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=3
Speed=6
BulletStyle=11
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.12
InheritedVelocity=0.1
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Chainsaw]
Damage=50
FireInterval=2
Ammo=200
ReloadTime=110
Speed=8
BulletStyle=11
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0028
InheritedVelocity=0.01
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=0.9

[M72 LAW]
Damage=1550
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=300
Speed=23
BulletStyle=12
StartUpTime=13
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.028
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Punch]
Damage=330
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=3
Speed=5
BulletStyle=6
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Grenade]
Damage=1500
FireInterval=80
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=20
Speed=5
BulletStyle=2
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0
InheritedVelocity=1
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[Stationary Gun]
Damage=1.8
FireInterval=10
Ammo=100
ReloadTime=366
Speed=36
BulletStyle=14
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0088
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.85

[Flamer]
Damage=19
FireInterval=6
Ammo=200
ReloadTime=5
Speed=10.5
BulletStyle=5
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.016
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Rambo Bow]
Damage=12
FireInterval=10
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=25
Speed=21
BulletStyle=7
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0148
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Flamed Arrows]
Damage=8
FireInterval=10
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=39
Speed=18
BulletStyle=8
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

Offline duz

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Re: Final proposal for better balancing of the game
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2018, 01:47:42 pm »
Who gave feedback? Where you tested the WM and for how long? What conclusions you've made (about the values) along the process?
I don't know exactly the context of your 'fight' with darDar/current WM, so I would like to know more.

PS: I also think the current WM is bad.
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Offline Akinaro

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Re: Final proposal for better balancing of the game
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2018, 03:23:54 am »
You never gonna get good WM, there will be always bias toward one creator.

Thats why you should get boths WM(ginn & dardar) + current one, and do blind test both in gather with old players and public with random sunday players. Dont tell anyone with WM you play in each match. Play even one WM two times saying that it was changed and see players reaction. I can ensure you that some player will say thing like "I like that change" even if they will play current default WM :]

I dont really see other way to do it if WM team is so messed up there is constant war. Just do a blind test, choose two or three random guys who are not related to anyone, they will be in charge of changing WM with every match get someone to record opinions of player about every gun, and thats it. No one will know what WM is tested and you will get pure player opinions not based on changes that they know/you told them.

Offline soldat-game

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Re: Final proposal for better balancing of the game
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2018, 10:52:26 am »
The best indicator is what players play most often.

Use this algorithm to assess the suitability of the weapon

All values should be converted to a positive value using abs. WeapRecoil use only for realistic. Data regarding shots and hits should be collected for a period of at least 48 hours of continuous player activity at 8vs8 or 6vs6 servers.

One = ((PlayersWeapTimePlay*(PlayersWeapKills^2)*PlayersWeapHit) / (PlayersWeapShoot*(PlayersWeapShoot-PlayersWeapHit))); //We count the effectiveness of the weapon by its ineffectiveness
WeapHitBoxModifier = (((WeapModifierHead*1.6)+(WeapModifierChest*1.87)+WeapModifierLegs)/3); //We count the average hitbox. According to statistics, hit the body part, we apply corrections to modifiers
Two = ((WeapDamage*(256-WeapFireInterval)*WeapHitBoxModifier) / (WeapReloadTime*(256-WeapAmmo)); //We count the force of fire by factors that load the firepower
Fri   = ((WeapSpeed*(256-WeapStartUpTime)) / (WeapMovementAcc*WeapBulletSpread*(WeapBink/1.6)*(WeapRecoil/1.25))); //We count the theoretical effectiveness of the weapon by theoretical disorders

Finally = (ONE+TWO+FRI/3); //If the values of the weapon are similar, the weapons should be well balanced
Hey, I wrote messages on these topics (https://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=45088.0
https://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=45068.0), about deleting this message in this topic.
https://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=45088.0

"So nothing was done hahahahahaha" Rekt admins remove this all time why? It does not break the rules.