Soldat Talk > General Discussions
Soldat 2020 feedback series, pt.2 - Maps
Aeronic:
Hello, and welcome to the second part of my Soldat 2020 feedback series: Maps.
--- Quote from: Intro ---I recently came back to Soldat after a very long time, and it's rekindled a spark. I miss games like this! But the game's not the same as it once was. For better and worse, it's changed - not so much the game itself, but the way it's being played.
Now with Soldat becoming open-source, there's a new opportunity ahead for where the game goes from here.
Thanks to the nostalgia I have for this game, I'd like to offer my perspective on some of what's different as someone who was involved with the community for a few years in the mid 00s, and offer some thoughts on other areas of improvement I can see.
--- End quote ---
This series is split into four parts. Click the link below to view my the relevant topics currently released:
1. Movement
2. Maps
3. Community
4. User Experience
---
The maps in Soldat dictate a player's experience in terms of moves required, angles and combat possibilities, and so on. What's changed in the last 10+ years?
Aeronic:
I've gotta say this straight up, and it's going to be harsh: the fact nearly all the maps that are new to me are shitty little fuckboxes is really quite depressing. They offer almost no gameplay variety. There isn't any room for tactics or strategy beyond throwing shit at a wall and hoping it'll stick. CTF has been lobotomised.
Hurts to say it, but it really stinks.
The older maps generally encouraged players to learn how to move, adapt to different angles and master combat, how to establish map control, etc.. In something like ctf_X or ctf_Guardian, though? There's just running at each other like idiots, with clearly defined, dumb limits on how each section of the map can be played. The same can be said of nearly every map introduced since I stopped playing. What the hell happened? These new maps are just an inescapable clusterfuck. They're all designed for one specific and incredibly limited brand of competetive play.
Map control is a basic tenet of any competitive game. Items in Quake aren't there just because the items themselves create dominance, it's because they create set opportunities for how the next engagement might go down, and the player best able to take those variables into account wins. It's not just videogames, either. Sports, paintball, etc.. There are natural benefits to having positional advantage.
But Soldat went in a completely different direction as I was leaving the game. The core community evidently just want to run at each other and shoot. The only variable is weapon efficiency. They wanted to have no opportunity to counter a flagger once they leave the base unless someone's already on the enemy side of the map.
There's no such thing as taking ownership of a position that can give a player or team an advantage... Take one step forward of your base and you're already in the center of the map, another and you're already in the enemy base.
What the hell?
Since I last played, there are only three or four CTF maps added that aren't complete anus. Many of the maps that were new when I stopped aren't exactly modern classics either: Division and Steel are pretty cramped and only work in competitive settings; Cobra and Snakebite are prototypes of what was to come: shitty little spamfests.
It seems the size of what mappers think their creations should be has been cut down so much they're all intended to be played in 2vs2 or 3vs3 only. There are usually only two, sometimes only one, engagement points on any route, and the amount of gimmicky trash like with the idea of being able to chain cap flags directly from one base to the other has been pushed way too hard. That idea doesn't even have any merit in the first place, it's just a gimmick, nothing more.
Reverse ctf like Hormone would be better relegated to its own custom game mode - this RCTF has no place in standard CTF, and even then Hormone is hardly a flattering example of it. Better again, just make RCTF a mutator (see UX thread) that automatically swaps flag positions so it can be played on any map designed for CTF.
Aeronic:
So, I've been overwhelmingly negative so far.
I should point out I that *do* like a select few aspects of map design which have matured since back in the day, particularly poly designs which allow for better utilisation of the movement mechanisms possible in modern soldat, such as halfpipe style shapes allowing quick cornering. However, even that comes with a caveat: they are too few and far between and don't have anywhere near enough of an impact in these new gimmick maps to actually make them fun.
It also isn't a 100% positive - ctf_blade is probably an example of where pushing uncommon movement dynamics all goes very, very wrong.
Ok...
The point of being critical here, is to establish that the direction of Soldat's map design is, IMO, a major factor in why the game has been brought to the brink. So many maps are so bad, it's just dumb chaos and new players think shooting is all there is to do. They are little torture chambers where these new players are completely trapped when matched with good players, and they don't even have the chance to breathe before getting fragged. They don't even have a chance to find out how to use movement or angles to their advantage.
Without more dimensions to the gameplay to explore beyond shooting, the game becomes oppressive against anyone better than they are.
CTF was Soldat's crown jewel. It was probably the most dynamic, deep 2D shooter around. The bulk of these new maps turn that around, and the only options are spam, throw yourself at the enemy, respawn, repeat. It's pathetic, it's as if whoever has been in charge of Soldat has been trying to turn it into a dumb, simple flash game - perhaps not a crime in itself, but it's not what made Soldat a game to play.
To top it off, these maps are cancer for casual play. The map pool curators over the years have seemingly just completely lost touch with what it was like to be a new player, lacking any perspective of gameplay dynamics outside of the specific style of play they and their friends enjoyed in gathers and competitive settings.
I watched a VOD recently of 7-8 guys who were friends playing Soldat for an hour and a half, and some of them never even learned how to jump - they'd just jet around the place. They played Cobra, Guardian, Snakebite, Mayapan, Raspberry, and X.
You could argue they weren't taking themselves seriously and simply didn't pay enough attention to the controls HUD that pops up on the first run, but that's a poor excuse. The best way to learn how to play is to provide real gameplay situations that necessitate the use of the basics. None of the maps they played encouraged a number of these players to find out how to jump in an hour and a half of solid play time. That's shocking.
You could also tell by the end of the VOD, they thought the game didn't have enough to maintain their interest much longer, even though they said they had fun. They took the game as just some dumb fun - they completely missed the hooks of getting better in even the most basic ways above just aiming in Soldat - using movement to advantage, baiting the enemy into compromise, etc.. A good game will grab a player regardless of their intention. Most people playing Soldat are just looking for some quick dumb fun. Something *has* to engage them and make them want to explore what the game has to offer.
I have no doubt that if the players in that VOD played a bunch of the old maps like Laos, Voland, Run, etc., things would be different. Instead of saying "yeah that was fun", they'd have said "that was a blast", just on that single added dimension to the gameplay they'd be far more encouraged to pursue. Map design *has* to inform how the game is played.
Soldat *has* content capable of grabbing people. Much of it is hidden behind shithouse map design, amongst other things I'll be going into in the other threads.
Aeronic:
Anyway... after seeing the dev comments about how they were considering a severe pruning of the map list, I've gotta say that sounds like a great idea, at least in principle. The caveat? Given the direction mapping took, I'm doubtful the maps I like align with the preferences of whoever is in charge of the game's map curation since I stopped playing. I feel it would be beneficial to offer some perspective on the situation with 1.7.1's default maps from outside their comfort zone.
First, a list of the maps I think get a lot right.
Then, a quick run through of those I have concerns with.
A post for DM first, despite not being as big an issue IMO; then a followup post for CTF.
I'll be providing each concerning map a mark out of 5; the lower the mark the more okay I am with seeing it removed or heavily reworked.
Aeronic:
DM
Which maps get a lot right:
Arena, Bigfalls, Daybreak, Jungle, Krab, Rok, Tropiccave, Veoto
Some that don't:
Airpirates
The interior is difficult to move around in, while the exterior is too open. Very few opportunities for fun mid range fights or using terrain as cover.
It's not particularly unbalanced, it just leads to gameplay that is uninteresting, limited and awkward. Requires smart use of jets, which new players cannot achieve, and so I think they'd struggle to like this map. There's no wow factor at all.
I also don't like it being one of the first maps a new player will see: it's visually dull despite its high res assets and texture manipulation, and it's difficult for players unfamiliar with it to get a grasp of the size and combat possibilities... IMO it's an all around poor example of Soldat.
1.3/5
Bridge
With more than 3-4 people, there's so much spawnkilling you could be forgiven if you forgot there's a middle of the map as well. Tiny, cramped, not very interesting.
2.2/5
Bunker
Hardly the worst map, but you generally just get one chance per life to do anything due to how open it is, how little jet fuel you have, and virtually no cover. As the bunker itself is too restrictive and awkward to be useful in that the polys and visuals are in the way, this source of cover doesn't really help.
2/5
CrackedBoot
The tiny "cracks" are basically a free escape route if the player can make it. Huge open areas make it easy to get flanked randomly from multiple directions, completely out of the player's control.
Very frustrating map to play.
1/5
DesertWind
Clusterfuck central. Gameplay is mostly ultra close quarters, vertical (read: unbalanced due to location based multipliers), it's got somewhat awkward terrain, and with no cover in such a cramped environment? This map can easily become a shitshow with many people.
The top area is only ever used as a means to escape and try to find some health, but because it's so open, there's so little jet fuel, and people spawning below can shoot those above right away, it rarely works.
1.8/5
Factory
A showcase of Soldat's gameplay at its worst. Literally the worst map in the game, its design is in direct conflict with what makes soldat fun.
Regularly kills servers.
0.
Flashback
Bigfalls, but slightly less dynamic and less visually interesting. Vertical tunnel on the far right is almost completely useless. (P.s. As an aside, I remember Bigfalls being green, why is it so yellow now? Not a fan...)
2.5/5
HH
Like 4 mundane mini-arenas jammed into one, where the interconnects between adjacent arenas are cramped and offer minimal capacity for the player moving through to avoid being picked off by someone in the next. As such, searching for a fight is awkward.
I think some of the ideas particularly on the left side of the map could be taken and used in another map and make better use of them; the rest of the map isn't interesting enough and doesn't attract much action.
1.5/5
Leaf
Another spawnkilling fest. Level design encourages constant spawnkilling, and there's really not a lot else to it. Even in 1v1, there are just 3 realistic engagement points with 2 or 3 very simple types of approaches each. Yawn.
1/5
RR
A worse, even more cramped version of arena2. If you want another tight map, tropiccave has this beat hands down.
1/5
Shau
Huge map for DM; gameplay gets focused too much in the spawn areas on either far end with large numbers of players; the tunnels in the hill just cut off the players within from being able to get kills; spawn areas are too open.
1.5/5
Unlim
Yet another spawnkilling fest. Map design isn't particularly good, much of it rarely even gets used due to the focus on spawnkilling.
0.5/5
---
Perhaps some of these maps are classics, but if there's to be a severe pruning, consider the above a critical take.
Now for a rundown of notable CTF maps. Oh boy.
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