Flag Fight: Take It Home Baby.

[decoy.]

Carry the flag. 

Here is an idea that I have had for a little while yet did not know how to express this idea completely. In Realistic mode, there should be an option where you can either choose for the flag to respawn at the base or expect for a respective team mate to carry the flag back for the purpose of preserving some sense of realism in it as well as to add to the difficulty to the task.

A team mate can carry the flag [with the intent of it heading back to home base] under certain conditions.

• When the player has only one weapon avalable to them in switching weapons.

This basically means that if you have only one weapon avalable to you upon weapon switching, then you can grab the flag on contact bare handed.[/size]

• When the flag has been forcibly removed from it's spot via blast or capture.

The capture can only be done by an opposing team member. Kill the EFC to get ahold of the flag.
Like many times, the flag can be shot from it's position as well. Since cooperation is a key factor, hope no team mates take it to the enemy's side. ^_^[/size]

• Only under these two circumstances is this to happen.

Don't worry, it won't be as similar to Halo as you may think. With the flag equipt, although you'll be a weapon short, the flag should be a handy substitute for something useful in the least. As a replacement of a weapon, it acts just like that, a tool that you can use when equipt.

When equipt you can:

• Bout at close range.
  This, like punching someone, enables you to knock the weapon out of your opponents hand providing that you hit the weapon. Yet trying to disarming someone without a weapon is not always possible since you have to live for the moment to accomplish this. If two flag carriers scrap with the weapons switched to flags then at most they can use them to battle like they're staffs but with of course the usual routine swings capable of being made in soldat.
  
  
• Stand Guard.
  If anything, this flag acts as a buffer for some and a shield to the rest. Generally the flag pole will be held perpendicular to the direction that you're looking in which means you are vulnerable on the side you pay less attention to. From there, the usual spray from such weapons as the AK or other weapons like the Spas, won't get through the flag poll. One exception to this with such weapons is that if they are at close enough range to literally stick their weapon pass your poll then there's nothing to keep the bullets from tearing through you. The same thing goes for the Chain saw and Combat Knife. Another exception to this rule is that you cannot defend much against explosions. If the hit is within your relative position, like the shot of an m79 lands on the side that you're holding towards. It will only act as a buffer to soften the blow. The flag can guard only guard against so much. Be sure to look out for amplified explosions such as a nade or two going off in result to the impact of the Law's blast. Also take note that if you are hit with an m79 or law blast then the one blast could potentially kill you if you don't have sufficient health to survive. It takes at least 75% of your health if hit directly while trying to guard. With the barret shot as well as usage of the rugar, filtering these shots is near impossible. The only damage that will be done in light of their impact will be at least 75% of the original damage they can inflict.
  
  Yet do not fear. There are means to fend from such threats. For one, you can cause shots to ricochette off of your flag if you hold it at the right angle as if it were skidding along the ground. Also, if you walk over a granade to not step on it and you know it's set to explode, look down and jump up in any order. If timed right, all you should do is fly. If you're planning to get hit with the flag pole obsorbing the impact, then use it wisely and aim in the opposite direction of where you wish to be propelled if you don't plan to ricochette it. This is effective for everything except nades, which generally explode upon impact, and the flame thrower, which will kill you still, just insignificantly slower.
  
  
• Pass and Go.
  It's simple, with the same method you use to throw the knife as well as granades, you can throw the flag in order to pass it with ease to your team mate. I considered also using the flag as a javolin in the mits of the toss but in a R/S TK [Realistic / Survival Team Kill] type of game, it would not be the smartist thing to take a risk on a pass to a team mate, so passing will suffice.

The general point of this idea is to add yet another challenge to CTF as well as abit of fun to it too instead of having such a docile flag which moves the way the wind blows. And note, the ability to do such a thing is not limited to the one who successfully retrieves his or her flag. EFCs can do this to but if they have two weapons equipt already then the default method of carrying and throwing will only be avalable, even while loosing a weapon in the process of holding the flag.

Although quite abit of detail was used, I doubt that each bit of this is clearly explained. If you have any questions or concerns about this, please make them noted regardless of what the question related to this be.

Note: The content above may be subject to edit to some degree in order to improve understanding as well as implant ideas for the betterment of this idea, if it ever carries through.

Date Posted: October 10, 2006, 01:10:53 PMI guess, if anything, I can reserve this post for any FAQs so if this lives that long, I'll make the post look nice at least.

[Axel]

hmm, i like ALOT of these ideas. but i must state the probs. firstly, biggest, is how are you gonna script this and what could the control scheme be? thats a big prob, an would take lots to work on. secondly, there is a problem with the abuse of this. i promice that people who are switched to the opposing team to maintain balance will try an sabotage this, and even reg. jackoffs would too. so there ya go, i luvs the idea of blocking, thats what i think is the best idea, and maybe the javelin, but it still leaves lots unsaid that involves actually makin it.
latas

[Toumaz]

• Pass and Go.
  It's simple, with the same method you use to throw the knife as well as granades, you can throw the flag in order to pass it with ease to your team mate.
  

Well, you can already do that. Just press W and S simultaneously.

For the overall carry the flag concept, I think that it would be a bit too complex to implement. The whole thing with that the flag appears in your actual hands would only that be a toughie to make possible.

And sorry, I don't really like this idea overall either. It would make Soldat a bit too complex, and I would like to keep that feeling of simplicity when I play it.

[decoy.]

hmm, i like ALOT of these ideas. but i must state the probs. firstly, biggest, is how are you gonna script this and what could the control scheme be? thats a big prob, an would take lots to work on. secondly, there is a problem with the abuse of this. i promice that people who are switched to the opposing team to maintain balance will try an sabotage this, and even reg. jackoffs would too. so there ya go, i luvs the idea of blocking, thats what i think is the best idea, and maybe the javelin, but it still leaves lots unsaid that involves actually makin it.
latas

Thanks for takin a look into it. As far as scripting, it's something I honestly need to get BACK into since I only did a little to start off with. So with the control scheme, I'm not exactly sure what I'll use for such. For now it's an idea that's up in the air for what I know.

Thanks for bringin up the thought of it being abused as well. I guess one of the parts of the conditions has to be removed, in regards to shooting the flag from it's spot. I figure at most, if it is shot from it's spot then it should return in it's regular method then. Only when the efc is taken out can the flag be taken I figure. Still the thought of sabotage surfaces.

Date Posted: October 10, 2006, 01:36:17 PM

• Pass and Go.
  It's simple, with the same method you use to throw the knife as well as granades, you can throw the flag in order to pass it with ease to your team mate.
  

Well, you can already do that. Just press W and S simultaneously.

For the overall carry the flag concept, I think that it would be a bit too complex to implement. The whole thing with that the flag appears in your actual hands would only that be a toughie to make possible.

And sorry, I don't really like this idea overall either. It would make Soldat a bit too complex, and I would like to keep that feeling of simplicity when I play it.

W and S will be left into it as well in my idea, but only if you're not carrying the flag as a weapon. And I understand what you're saying. I tend to complicate things that need remain simple at times that I shouldn't. It's a habbit I need to abandon sometimes. But as for this one, I'm a little iffy about my own idea. It's why I put in such statements of doubt.

And simplicity works well too.

[Mistercharles]

hmm, i like ALOT of these ideas. but i must state the probs. firstly, biggest, is how are you gonna script this and what could the control scheme be?

Do people who suggest these ideas script it themselves? Hell no, MM does it. And why would the controls be different?

I do like this idea, despite its complexity. It would be interesting, having a bit more to think about besides kill EFC, protect FFC, get flag, protect base. Plus, there wouldn't be as many noobs present, seeing as the Flag Fight soldiers would have a lot to consider before making a move.

[Cato269]

mabye the realistic return, but none of that other stuff, becuase there are amost no smart sawers in r/s let alone when your rushing at them with their flag.

[decoy.]

Well in light of the opinions that differ here, would there be any suggestions that should be added to this idea from anyone?

Date Posted: October 11, 2006, 06:39:43 AM

mabye the realistic return, but none of that other stuff, becuase there are amost no smart sawers in r/s let alone when your rushing at them with their flag.

And I would believe it to be unfair of the flag to block each and every attack thrown at them, which is why I provided such exceptions presented. Plus there are enough glitches with flag holders already. I've seen some take hits from m79s when the flag was sort of an obstruction as well as if it hit the flying shoes they had. There is one thing I do wonder about in regards to this.

If a flag carrier is off to return his own flag, should it be allowed for him to carry two flags? Although that might make that one person hold the lot of the weight in that round, I believe the best answer for this would be no.

So I figure that the default here should be applied if the designated flag carrier has come to return the flag;

Regarding the flag carrier: Upon contact of their own flag, while in posession of the opposition's flag, their flag will respawn back at their base.

That should fix that though.

[Axel]

hmm, if you can implement it, maybe the block featur could be added to the 2nd mouse button.....or first, depending on wat all would be added. youd want it one one of those though, cuz i think it would be the most heavily used, and it would aim just like a gun when you use it, so you still have to follow and perfectly block the enemy thats attacking you,(FE) if ur under attack beh 3 people, it could provide for some awsome maneuvers on the ffcs side to live through that, and there would surface a new class of players that pride themselves in flag fighting skillz.(i really like the idea of guarding, where it only protects you for the length of teh flag and you have to look at teh person thats attacking for it to come between you 2. if its like that, it can easily be an impenetrable sheild without unbalancing the game)
im votin full support now.

[decoy.]

hmm, if you can implement it, maybe the block featur could be added to the 2nd mouse button.....or first, depending on wat all would be added. youd want it one one of those though, cuz i think it would be the most heavily used, and it would aim just like a gun when you use it, so you still have to follow and perfectly block the enemy thats attacking you,(FE) if ur under attack beh 3 people, it could provide for some awsome maneuvers on the ffcs side to live through that, and there would surface a new class of players that pride themselves in flag fighting skillz.(i really like the idea of guarding, where it only protects you for the length of teh flag and you have to look at teh person thats attacking for it to come between you 2. if its like that, it can easily be an impenetrable sheild without unbalancing the game)
im votin full support now.

Thank you and that is the idea for the aspect in the game.

As for the blocking to be more so an optional action than something already set, I was considering it would work in cooperation with attacking with the flag. But how would that work, because aside from throwing nades and throwing knives, the shooting function is the only other way I see to attack or block.

Wait, I just got an idea in the middle of typing. It should encourage timing more so than anything. To press the fire button with the flag is to hit. Do so repeatedly and it hits with two routine strikes. Hold the button and it should enable the carrier of that flag to block. It won't be dependant on weather you hold to block or tapping it to attack. To shoot is automatically attacking. It's just after that attack it should block. It's about as vital to time as switching to the combat knife in time to throw it I suppose.

How does that sound as far as the flag fighting is concerned.

And if this goes through, then you may be right as far as those who might pride theirselves on fighting with the flag. I figure some pride themselves on sniping while others do with knives.

[Keron Cyst]

This would dramatically change CTF, pushing it out into a new frontier where it's never traversed before.

I'm with Mistercharles; I think it's freakin' awesome, but it probably won't get implemented because it has so many different sections requiring massive coding, especially the attack-then-block. That's like forming a temporary collider right there! I don't think that's practical at all in terms of programming.

It's a great idea, tho', and I'd love to see it implemented. (Of course, it won't, but we can dream... ) Nice idea.

The idea of taking your own loose flag back to base instead of it warp-returning is probably the most radical in that post.

[Axel]

well, for the collider, the grenade already can stop explosives, couldnt you change it so that it can stop bullets and rename it to use as the sheild? i mean, id think that it would be easy just to map a beta that is a perpetual sheild, just adding a colider in front of where your looking at all times. it would obviously be a beta, but iv done scripting for other games, and usually its possible to atleast trick the game into doing what you want. anywho, perhaps we could map the jet to double pressing the jump button, and have the 2 mouse buttons being devoted to the flag, or to make it more simple get rid of the attack ability. there are a host of things you could cancel out to add this, but block would definately be the most used feature if this could ever be added since its the most easily jumped into. id definately like to see this in teh game, but like he said, unless mm practically directly posts we can only dream, like many other great suggestions.....

[Keron Cyst]

The grenade can stop explosives?!

[Toumaz]

I think he meant that the grenade could explode other explosives, but I'm frankly not too sure...

[a-4-year-old]

i don't feel it, isn't that just like unreal tournament or something?

i know in guild wars you need to pick up items and cant use your weapons and it pisses me off,

its a no for me.

[Axel]

1. yeah, i know for a fact that nades explode other nades mid air if they collide, so im assuming that it can do that with rockets an 79s.
2. i cant say bout unreal, but it would be diff for soldat, specially since its 2d, and not about aliens... but the control could be mouse 1 to block, and the reload button turns into the attack, so as to make it more difficult to use.

[decoy.]

The grenade can stop explosives?!

Yes they can, by exploding themselves. But to say, they're best used when an explosive projectile is sent in your direction. I've done this some times over and if my nade is in the general area where the rocket of a M72 Law was to meet then the rocket launched would detonate in result of colliding with the nade.

i don't feel it, isn't that just like unreal tournament or something?

i know in guild wars you need to pick up items and cant use your weapons and it pisses me off,

its a no for me.

Do not worry. I believe that I forgot to mention that you are switching in between 1 weapon and the flag. This is another, sort of, safety with carrying the flag so that you'll have something to protect you with. With soldat being a 2d game, the bullets have less of a choice in which direction they are to fly in. The basic example is if they're flying in your direction. In response to this, you can do one of two things, switch to your flag and block the sprayed shots heading in your direction or two, shoot back with the other weapon avalable (given that your first weapon as the flag carrier IS the flag.)

1. yeah, i know for a fact that nades explode other nades mid air if they collide, so im assuming that it can do that with rockets an 79s.
2. i cant say bout unreal, but it would be diff for soldat, specially since its 2d, and not about aliens... but the control could be mouse 1 to block, and the reload button turns into the attack, so as to make it more difficult to use.

Well Mouse 1 for block is a definite given. But making the attack button something different like the reload button may work. It's just like the point of throwing your knife above throwing any other weapons wielded.

[Axel]

kooldat man

[zyxstand]

grenade-grenade collision doesn't trigger them!
This is a pretty good idea - however I don't like the stand guard thing where the flag can protect you.
I did think of another cool idea, namely having the flag act like a spy - you can throw it over a hill top and anything in its line of sight is also in yours however you do risk having it at the enemy's side.  Say you throw it over a hill to spy there and an enemy that's out of its line of sight sees it and knows your using it to spy - he then can make a fast dash for it and run with it.  The only lame thing would be having someone from your team take the flag to the enemy either out of stupidity (meaning he's risking TOO much and it wouldn't be worth it) or he just wants to be annoying like TKers.  Although it has been discussed that we will have to rely on team member cooperation and faith in that they won't be stupid/annoying, it's still pretty risky.

[iPod]

Much too complicated. Soldat isn't played by the mature types of players that would work well with anything requiring a high level of teamwork. I suppose it might have application in clan type engagements, though.

[Axel]

disagree with you(zyx).....teh block would be the biggest feature, having to aim teh small colision to block bullets would make it kool and workable as an impenetrable sheild(youd have to have some real skills to survive a 2-1 battle), and, well, i think that the flag spy thing wouldnt add very much to the game, cuz everyone would get the flag taken away and everyone would be pissed at them and thus noone would use it except the tkers.

ps, yes, they doo, iv done it multiple times where if 2 grenades colide midair, they explode simultainiously and instantaniously. this is also true for rockets, and maybe 79s.