M79 and Barret Unfair?

[ArmedManiac]

If you can come up with any reason why equality, and avoiding pissing people off is wrong, then I will continue my arguing further. Otherwise, I don't care about any of your stupid comments.

Until then... Your wrong.

Getting killed by a barret or m79 doesn't make me mad, nor a lot of people. Almost the only people that only use m79 and barret and are n00bs, so yell at them, not me. Everyone who is in clanwars and stuff don't use only barret, people who win in pubs don't use barret, it just happens to make you mad. I know of no one who only uses barret anyway. This does not mean everyone should stop becuase it makes a few mad, otherwise no there would be no guns, becuase everyone has that gun they hate, you are just the one complaining. What if I said that getting killed by the steyer made me mad and everyone should use it less, than would you? Or any gun for that matter. It isn't over powered, you can always see it coming, has a half second start up time, a 3 second reload,(I think) and 10 shots before reloading. The m79 has a huge arc, long reload, and can't hit anyone higher than the m79 person. Stop complaining that you don't like the m79 or barret, this is the weapon balanced discussion, so I ask you, is the barret and m79 balanced? If it is, this is no the place for this conversation in the first place. I am all for people using different guns, but it is the users choice if they want to use different guns, not yours. Everyone has equality in this game, which is why I like it. Everyone has the same thing, so skill is the determining factor, not the gun because everyone has the same thing. If two guns make you this mad, quit the game becuase there will always be noobs who want to use it, no matter what.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

Papercut, you expect people to change their tactics, but you're not willing to change your own?

Scenario one: You are facing an m79 user, so you do the logical thing and switch to the ruger.
M79 user comes at you.  You kill him with two shots before he can get close.  He comes back and you kill him again.  He comes back and you kill him again.  Now, imagine that the m79 user is like you:
OMG RUGERTARD!!!! LAMER USE A REAL WEAPON!!!! IT'S SO ANNOYING TO GET KILLED LIKE THAT I DON'T EVEN HAVE A CHANCE!!!

Scenario two: You are facing a barret user, so you do the logical thing and switch to the HK MP5 or the Steyr Aug.
You keep moving and firing in the direction of the barreter before you even see him.  He's trying to get off a shot while being binked like crazy.  Finally, you see him and focus your shots on him.  The bink causes his shot to go wide and you kill him.  Repeat.  Now imagine that the barret user is like you:
OMG SPRAYER!!! USE A WEAPON THAT NEEDS SKILL THIS IS SO CHEAP!!!  THIS GAME IS SO UNFAIR I THINK THE WEAPONS NEED TO BE CHANGED!!!!

Enough said.

[papercut]

@ArmedManiac - "Getting killed by a barret or m79 doesn't make me mad, nor a lot of people."

If it didnt make a lot of people mad I would have never been influenced to make the theory in the first place. Let alone make it a topic in these forums.

Almost the only people that only use m79 and barret and are n00bs, so yell at them, not me. Everyone who is in clanwars and stuff don't use only barret, people who win in pubs don't use barret, it just happens to make you mad. I know of no one who only uses barret anyway.

It's okay if noobs are doing it. They are just getting into the game. But if they dont quit it it gets excessive and I am attempting to stop it. I have met several people that I've played several times on different servers, and still never got out of the m79/barret habit. I don't want to have to say names, because I don't want to embarrass them, but I can if I have to. I never said you were a m79 or barret user, though I regret if I had implied that in the past.

"What if I said that getting killed by the steyer made me mad and everyone should use it less, than would you? Or any gun for that matter."

Absolutely! I'm glad you said that. I truly would. No one deserves to have a lesser soldat experience, so if they want me to cool off, I will. I have no problem with that.

"It isn't over powered, you can always see it coming, has a half second start up time, a 3 second reload,(I think) and 10 shots before reloading."

I never said they were overpowered. Delay times, and long reloads doesnt help me to see it coming anyway.

Stop complaining that you don't like the m79 or barret, this is the weapon balanced discussion, so I ask you, is the barret and m79 balanced? If it is, this is no the place for this conversation in the first place.

http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=6497.0

I'm really sick of this.

Think about this for a second.

What are you doing? Why are you trying to win this argument? All I am doing is convincing those who use barret and m79 as their default weapon all the time to use other weapons because the guns are aggrevting to be killed by. What are you going to get if you win this argument??

NOTHING.

I'm trying to get what's best for the community, and all your doing is making worthless attempts to stop it from happening. You're a rebel without a cause. You know there is no reason that you should be fighting to keep the barreters and m79ers, and I know you know that. There's no benefit for anyone if you win this argument, but if your not going to let the barreters and m79ers agree with me, then people who are frustrated with m79ers and barreters are still going to be frustrated. Convincing barreters and m79ers to quit using the barrets and m79s all the time as a default weapon, and never pick anything else, won't frustrate them. It's their own decision whether they want to agree with it or not. I'm just trying to persuade them to take my side. I know that when you argue with me, you are getting nowhere. I hope you can comprehend the fact that it won't get you anywhere. So just stay out of it. Your only hurting, not helping. Think about it.

I can't believe such a stupid argument had to stretch on for 9 pages...

[Tai]

@Zamorak - I dont make servers. I join other peoples. I dont have the patience for people to come in my servers and go "what no barret/m79?"

<Major has left the game.>

 Ok, to put a layer on what I said earlier, you're saying it's me and ArmedManiac's fault that people disprove of this topic, like no one would have said "You're wrong!" before. Yet, by saying that no one would want to play in your server once they see it has no Barret or M79, you're actually laying down a testimony that these people would probably disagree with this topic too.

Also, you said in your topic post that anyone who uses Barret or M79 is being selfish, which will imply you have a problem with them; why do barreters or M79ers need me, ArmedManiac, or anyone who's posted against you to tell them that?

@ArmedManiac - I've been noticing that more and more lately. I am very glad to see that. But there is still like a third of people that still ONY use m79 and barret.

If that's not enough, then you really are making too much of a big deal out of this, and of course people will ignore you. Also, if one out of every three people in a server uses M79 or Barret, that means that the other two people that would use projectiles could be on the opposing team. What if they blitz you, which means you'rr taking constant fire from two people?

I'm talkin about taking sides against me. Ever since you made your first post in this topic you got about 3 people to agree with you. I hope you know that your just prolonging this argument just for the sake of arguing. You know I'm not asking for much. Especially since last time i played soldat you werent even using barret or m79. So I'm not even speaking directly to you.

 Again, you say you can't run servers because you feel people won't join them if they don't have Barret or M79. What makes you think people won't already disagree with a topic like this too?? Again, if you're calling M79ers or Barreters selfish in your topic post, that doesn't really need to be pointed out by anyone.

Because if they didnt want to own a server, theyd use the hardest weapon to use like a chainsaw or a minigun. (duh)

 So, if people don't basically labor themselves to play opposed to wanting to have fun with whatever weapon they please, they're being wrong? If people find fun using the Barret or M79, that doesn't mean they're bad people. 
   Now granted, Soldat's online, and you will find people that will want to compete, and will use whatever weapon to win, even if that includes or Barret or M79. But, that goes for every other weapon too; Deagle, MP5, AK, Steyr, Spas, Ruger, Minimi, Minigun, the seconadries, grenades, even the powerups if enabled in a server. People will use it if they think it will benefit to them winning. Everyone wants to win, you know. Maybe some more than others, but no one prefers losing over winning just for the sake; if everyone was like that, Soldat probably wouldn't be as fun to play as most people find it.

I've made the point earlier that the gun is frustrating to be killed by. It adds to the fun of the user, but takes away from the victim. Not cool. If I am wrong in that sense then no one would have ever complained about the m79 and barret in the first place.

 The key word's victim. All the other weapons take away from the victim too, not just the Barret and M79. When you get killed by a weapon, it's taking away from you. You lose a chance for a frag, or a chance to score in CTF. Why are M79 and Barret so special to you? What about the Ruger? If you're not at 100% health, Rugers could easily take you out in one shot. Why should only M79ers and Barreters take all the guilt? Very personal turn offs doesn't constitute the need to change a game.

@Clawbug - I'm not saying we kick out the weapons. I'm just saying, because MM wouldn't want me begging that we replace cheap guns with fair ones, that the people who constantly use them, should have to tone down a bit and start using other weapons. Because the goal of Soldat is to have fun. However its not cool if you are hoarding the fun for yourself.

 But, telling people how to play the game so YOU won't be "annoyed" isn't hoarding the fun for yourself, as well? You don't think that people would rather you not tell them how to play?

Anyone who continues to rebel against such a simple act that can benefit us all, is just making a mockery of themselves. Not picking barret and m79 every time is NOT THAT BIG OF A DEAL. If you do it, I'll appreciate you more. People that hate m79s and barrets will appreciate you more. Dont use the barrets and m79s for the same reason you dont TK people or spawn kill or camp. It's not that hard to do, and it wont piss anyone off. I don't know how many times i have to tell you guys that, but I hope you comprehend it soon.

 TKing can't be compared to spawnkilling or camping in anyway. Teamkilling doesn't help your cause or your teammates. Spawn killing can actually can help the team you're on, because it holds the opponents back when someone else is getting the flag. Campers can easily be snuffed out once you know where they are, but if they're good, they can secure certain parts of levels. Still, they're not immune from vunerablity; they can be taken out with a nade if they're just standing still, and once they have to jump in the air, you can shoot them a lot easier. By no means a broken tactic.

 On top of all of this, how can you compare barreters and M79ers to camping or spawnkilling? Campers are vunerable once found, and spawnkilling is not done often, since it's really only helpful in a few extreme situations, like protecting your flag runner. Other than that, it's unlikely you'll take out the batch of opponents who spawn by yourself. M79ers and Barreters can easily be taken out by a blitz of projectilers.

 

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

Almost the only people that only use m79 and barret and are n00bs, so yell at them, not me.
It's okay if noobs are doing it. They are just getting into the game.

FYI, There IS a difference between n00bs and newbs: http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20060823

Think about this for a second.

What are you doing? Why are you trying to win this argument? All I am doing is convincing those who use barret and m79 as their default weapon all the time to use other weapons because the guns are aggrevating to be killed by. What are you going to get if you win this argument??

NOTHING.

[SNIP]

I can't believe such a stupid argument had to stretch on for 9 pages...

If he manages to win the argument, this "stupid argument" will finally stop and someone might recognize that the game isn't designed around the feelings of him or a few of his friends.

I'm trying to get what's best for the community, and all your doing is making worthless attempts to stop it from happening. You're a rebel without a cause. You know there is no reason that you should be fighting to keep the barreters and m79ers, and I know you know that.

The reason is that removing barreters and m79ers is NOT best for the community.  These weapons are a part of Soldat, and if you can't live with that, maybe you shouldn't be playing.  Also, where is this "community" that you're talking about?  Why don't they show up and support you?

Convincing barreters and m79ers to quit using the barrets and m79s all the time as a default weapon, and never pick anything else, won't frustrate them. It's their own decision whether they want to agree with it or not.

Do you realize what you just said?  You've just contradicted yourself.  Right now hundreds of barreters and m79ers are making their own decision as to whether or not they agree with you.  That doesn't mean you've convinced them.

I know that when you argue with me, you are getting nowhere. I hope you can comprehend the fact that it won't get you anywhere.

It sure seems like this statement applies to everyone trying to convince you that you're being foolish; otherwise, like you said, the argument wouldn't have gone on this long.

[ArmedManiac]

Papercut, fine, after this post I'm done, but listen, who all have you succesfully made stop using the barret and m79 from this topic. The reason I keep arguing is becuase you care so much about others business you are willing to say using the barret and m79 all the time is n00b. What about the people that only use mp5 or deagles, are they n00bs? It is annoying when people only use one gun, but that is their own fault, I don't understand why it makes you so mad you are arguing for 9 pages, after all, it takes 2 to argue. The guns aren't overpowered, like you said, so why do you care if they only use it. I also don't understand why it is taking away so much of your fun. You get killed in one hit, yes, but is that so bad. It's not like you don't see them coming or anything, or it isn't dodgeable or anything, so who cares. I'm all for you getting people to use different guns, but do it server-side, because at this point you are just arguing, saying how unfair they are, yet not overpowered(not sure how that works either). This discussion is obvioulsy a waste of our time, becuase you are so bull headed you can't even realize that people will change guns on their own time, if they want to get better they will use different guns, but for now they dont. Now you are going to call me bullheaded saying I keep arguing too and this stuff about how this is unfair and stuff, but i think this we have giving ample reasons it isn't, you just can't change an opinion. And law gamer made a good point, if so many people hate the guns, where are they, so far you have gotten like 2 supporters. So yeah, I'm done, there is enough reason for you to change your mind, so furthering this is pointless, becuase I am talking to a brick wall.

[Tai]

What are you doing? Why are you trying to win this argument? All I am doing is convincing those who use barret and m79 as their default weapon all the time to use other weapons because the guns are aggrevting to be killed by. What are you going to get if you win this argument??

NOTHING

 It can be argued that this topic is doing nothing, for you're not making sense to anyone. You claim the weapons are unfair, but not overpowered. You're just annoyed by being killed by one-hit weapons. Personal turn offs from a weapon DO NOT warrant change. The rationality of your proposal is non-existant, cause it has virtually nothing to do with actual gameplay, just based on a reaction of yours that most people share about being killed in an online shooting game. You even show it's not about gameplay because you won't take suggestions on how to counter the barret and M79.

 On top of that, you are talking DOWN to the people you're trying to convince that what you say is right. You consider people who use the M79 and Barret as selfish, claming they don't share the fun of Soldat, even though the only one's fun who seems to be ruined is you over a personal turn off. One of your "supporters" presumes anyone who only uses Barret and M79 "needs to find a girlfriend or something". People see that and will show him up, and not agree with his arguement, because he makes presumptions just on what weapon they use for a ****ing game. You even say that the majority of the players don't use only the Barret and M79, yet you still think something needs to be done. Now, you sound like you're making too big of a deal out of all this. You sound like you're more obsessed  about the M79s and Barrets then the people you claim are here just to take all the fun out of it.

I'm trying to get what's best for the community, and all your doing is making worthless attempts to stop it from happening. You're a rebel without a cause. You know there is no reason that you should be fighting to keep the barreters and m79ers, and I know you know that. There's no benefit for anyone if you win this argument, but if your not going to let the barreters and m79ers agree with me, then people who are frustrated with m79ers and barreters are still going to be frustrated. Convincing barreters and m79ers to quit using the barrets and m79s all the time as a default weapon, and never pick anything else, won't frustrate them. It's their own decision whether they want to agree with it or not. I'm just trying to persuade them to take my side. I know that when you argue with me, you are getting nowhere. I hope you can comprehend the fact that it won't get you anywhere. So just stay out of it. Your only hurting, not helping. Think about it.

I can't believe such a stupid argument had to stretch on for 9 pages...

You are the rebel, here. Even though you seem to have a cause, you are in the minority, so you're rebelling against how people have used those weapons, not the other way around. You say people won't come to a server that has no M79 and Barret, so how can you think you're somehow in the majority? The M79 and Barret have been here since 1.1.X, and have survived many people like you. So, survey says? That the Barret and M79 are fair.
    They are practically standard now, and you are trying to tell people when to use it just because of something that has nothing to do with the weapons themselves, but how you're annoyed that you get killed by them. You do NOT have the people's say, only yours and a few friends, and your arguements don't help you at all. That's the point, and that's why no one will listen to you. To them, you're just someone lashing out against what you can't handle emotionally, and no one will take how you act seriously. If you want to continue your vain campaign, then be my guess, because like ArmedManiac, I'm starting to see little point in arguing with you further if you won't listen to reason.

[papercut]

@Tai - I refuse to care anymore about your stupid comments. All your doing is ammending the things i say into something thats worth complaining about. I suggest you wipe the tears off your keyboard, put band-aids on your wrists, and call it a night. neither you or I know what you are trying to achieve. If you can explain to me why your doing this then I'll start to care a little more, but right now... I dont.

@{LAW} Gamer_2k4 - FYI, There IS a difference between n00bs and newbs

I honestly never knew that, thanks for clarifying that. =) I regreat saying noobs in my past posts, I will be sure to modify them to newbs.

If he manages to win the argument, this "stupid argument" will finally stop and someone might recognize that the game isn't designed around the feelings of him or a few of his friends.

Nope. This theory wasn't meant to so controversial. I wanted the barreters and m79ers to reflect on their habits of always using m79s and barrets, because a great deal of the ones who do use m79s and barrets, only use those specific guns. The ones who only use those specific guns are the ones I made this thread for. However, if this game is not centered around the feelings the ones who play it, then what did you start playing this game for? Fun? Is fun not a feeling?

The reason is that removing barreters and m79ers is NOT best for the community.

I'm not removing anyone. I cant do that. I have no intention to. Barreters and M79ers can still play the game. I just reccomend that they consider using different guns every now and then, instead of the same ones over and over. Why? I have already stated many many times.

These weapons are a part of Soldat, and if you can't live with that, maybe you shouldn't be playing.

I can live with it. but if there are going to be over a third of people who are biased to a certain weapon, It gets annoying. Therefore forum topics come up. Like a theory that tries to convince them to use the other weapons as well.

Also, where is this "community" that you're talking about?  Why don't they show up and support you?

Anyone who plays soldat, who mods soldat, or are subscribed to these forums is a community member. I am a community member, You are a communityy member, were all part of the soldat community.

Do you realize what you just said?  You've just contradicted yourself.  Right now hundreds of barreters and m79ers are making their own decision as to whether or not they agree with you.  That doesn't mean you've convinced them.

The theory didnt automatically convince them as soon as I made it. I made it as an ATTEMPT to lower the amount of people that only m79 and barrets.

It sure seems like this statement applies to everyone trying to convince you that you're being foolish; otherwise, like you said, the argument wouldn't have gone on this long.

It does.

[Tai]

@Tai - I refuse to care anymore about your stupid comments. All your doing is ammending the things i say into something thats worth complaining about. I suggest you wipe the tears off your keyboard, put band-aids on your wrists, and call it a night. neither you or I know what you are trying to achieve. If you can explain to me why your doing this then I'll start to care a little more, but right now... I dont.

 I said why. You're saying people should change their ways for you, and I'm telling you why they don't have to, especially since your reasons can apply to all other weapons. I'm trying to tell you how it's not fair to single out the M79 and Barret just because of a personal vendetta that can be held against any weapon.

 You seem to be the one that's crying and slitting yourself; I disagree with you, so I'm in such an extreme fit? XD

You acknowledge that fewer and fewer people are designating themselves to the M79 or Barret, yet you feel that's not enough for you. You need a 100% guarantee that your turn off won't happen when you walk into a pub server? Well, good luck.

[Mr. Domino]

I can't believe such a stupid argument had to stretch on for 9 pages...

That's because you insist on defending your whining of one-hit weapons as "cheap" and people keep taking the bait. Just let it die if you really are tired of debating this and accept that most people here disagree with your opinion as you continuously state it.

[papercut]

I said why. You're saying people should change their ways for you, and I'm telling you why they don't have to, especially since your reasons can apply to all other weapons. I'm trying to tell you how it's not fair to single out the M79 and Barret just because of a personal vendetta that can be held against any weapon.

Ok I'll explain it again in different wording. To say the least, one hit kill weapons are not fun. You can't predict anything from the person who uses them. You cant predict where he's going to shoot, you cant predict when he's going to shoot, it's just a blind weapon to defend yourself from. You get no warning to dodge or anything, and theres no time to dodge it before you're already dead.

With any other gun, you see the bullets coming, spraying throughout, and slowly losing health. You are given a warning to act, and a time to act. At that point you can understand how the enemy is attempting to kill you, and come up with ideas of how your going to avoid it. Even if you didn't act in time, you still have a sense of understandin what could have been done, which is far more releiving than being confused. (Think about why the default thing people say whenever they are accused of something is "What did I do?") The other guns take a bit of problem solving to escape from. But the m79s and barrets just give you a "wtf should I have done to avoid that?" It's basically a math problem with too many variables that it can't be solved.

If barreters and m79ers understand that, they may think about how the gun is perceived by the victim, and not just how fun it is for themselves. Maybe they'd want to try to avoid being "unfair" to their victims and just use other guns that can come off as less "unfair". I'm not going to make anyone do anything. I'm just trying to persuade people that the guns are not cool to the people they kill em with.

To me, You're coming off as someone who is pissed at me because I am whining that the guns are unfair and i want them banned and that all barreters and m79ers deserve no fun and bleh, ble, bleh. It drives me through the roof. I cant seem to understand why you wouldn't just go with the flow. It won't change anything for you if you have to argue about it this much. If you don't say anything, there may be less barreters and m79ers. But if you do, everything stays the same. Do you rather there be more m79ers than not?

The focus of the problem isnt exactly the barrets and m79s. It's more so the people who use them. From the patterns I have seen, I notice the people who use m79s and barrets continue to use m79 and barrets only. (I can't prove it being that I do not know a way to record every weapon a person kills with.) I want to be able to convince them that there are other guns, most of which aren't hated as much.

From playing soldat year after year, I have understood that the use of barrets and m79s are the most controversial things in soldat. I go almost everyday I play soldat, with at least one person going "barretard" or "m79 noob" "omg you m79ers are sooo gay" and other bull. Even a few of my fellows who play soldat understand the gun to be annoying and unfair. However, They are unable to back it up. I feel that is the reason why barreters and m79ers continue to use their weapons. They hear that its unfair all the time, but they are not getting the proof they need to comprehend that the gun maybe unfair. So they simply continue using it. This theory give barreters and m79ers that theres a reason behind all this "omg m79 noobs are unfair" stuff. So there you have it.

I'm trying to tell you how it's not fair to single out the M79 and Barret just because of a personal vendetta that can be held against any weapon.

Well this theory can only apply to the m79 and barret as being unfair. I don't have theories as to why other guns can be unfair. But I don't plan to come up with theories since they aren't complained of nearly as much.

I disagree with you, so I'm in such an extreme fit?

Well your first post seemed to come off a tad explosive =P You were always ready to pounce on me by flaming all your dissagreement on me after almost every post I made. You seemed to take this more seriously than you needed to.

That's because you insist on defending your whining of one-hit weapons as "cheap" and people keep taking the bait. Undecided Just let it die if you really are tired of debating this and accept that most people here disagree with your opinion as you continuously state it.

It's because I really don't want this theory topic to end as being "wrong". I know that there is nothing wrong with attempting to convince m79ers and barreters that those guns can come off as unfair. I didnt want to give up until I can get all of those who are flaming me to understand the point I am trying to make, and that it is not such a bad thing.

[Yukwunhang]

It won't change anything for you if you have to argue about it this much. If you don't say anything, there may be less barreters and m79ers. But if you do, everything stays the same.

If your 'theory' is right, people will be 'convinced' no matter how much we are arguing about this. If it's wrong, people(barreters and m79ers) will not agree on it even we don't say a thing.

Do you rather there be more m79ers than not?

I'll rather have more m79ers. They're my source of fun.

To me, 'attempt to convince m79ers and barreters that those guns can come off as unfair' is kinda a stupid act. It's like saying 'this thing is broken, let's not to use it instead of fixing it.'

There are something thing that cannot be changed nor 'convinced' and human nature is one of them. We always want to win rather than losing. We always want to be rich but not to be poor.

I used to be as passionate as you. You'll understand eventually, it's something that every Soldat player will encounter.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

Ok I'll explain it again in different wording. To say the least, one hit kill weapons are not fun. You can't predict anything from the person who uses them. You cant predict where he's going to shoot, you cant predict when he's going to shoot, it's just a blind weapon to defend yourself from. You get no warning to dodge or anything, and theres no time to dodge it before you're already dead.

Actually, you can, and that's why so many people are disagreeing with you.  It should be pretty common sense that the person is going to shoot at you, therefore you know where he's going to shoot.  The key is to dodge when the person is going to shoot.  When is he going to shoot?

The m79 has a fairly short range, and if you pay attention, you'll eventually learn where that is.  There are two ways to dodge the m79 then.  The first one is to obviously stay out of range, using a long-range weapon like the AK-74 or the ruger to take him down.  M79 kills made out of the effective range are generally luck, and even deserving of a "nice shot".  The second way to dodge an m79 is this: While you're still out of the effective range, jet into the air so that you're above him.  Once you enter the effective range, immediately superman.  Since the m79 user is firing at where you are, he's tracking your movements and firing at where you're going to be.  The sudden change in direction will make him miss nine times out of ten.

The barret is a little tricker to deal with, but it still can be done.  As I hinted at in an earlier post, you'll want to use an auto like the Steyr Aug or the HK MP5.  Most good barret users don't camp, so the scope isn't an issue.  Since this is the case, you'll see each other at the same time.  Again, with experience, you'll learn when he is going to fire (when you see him, plus the barret delay).  Because of this delay, you get to fire first.  Since you have an auto, and assuming you have decent accuracy, you'll immediately start causing him to bink.  Once this happens, it is VERY likely that he'll miss and that you can finish the job even before your clip runs out.  Here, dodging isn't an issue.  Let's say you decided yo use the ruger or some other slower weapon instead.  Now dodging is very necessary.  Again, you know where he's going to shoot (at you) and you know when he's going to shoot (shortly after you see him).  Of you are on the ground, go prone immediately before he fires.  The shot will likely go over you.  If you are in the air, superman immediately before he fires.  Again, the shot will probably miss.  Now it's an easy matter to finish the barret user off while he's reloading.  In the case of a camper, remember that 1) Scoped shots are often inaccurate (and therefore not a huge problem) unless you're standing still, and 2) Campers tend to stay in the same location.  The best solution is to spray your auto at where the camper is, before you see him.  Since your clip is likely to run out before he dies, you may have to dodge, but at least this time you know how.

I never have a problem with either m79s or barrets because I know how to deal with them.  Hopefully you will too, and you'll realize that these weapons aren't unfair.  A very wise man once said:

The weapons are balanced.  The question of balance occurs when new players (and many regular players) fail to recognize disadvantageous situations.  Of course you're going to die if you charge an m79 or shotgun.  Obviously you'll lose if you try to take on an auto with a binkable weapon.  That doesn't mean the weapons are unbalanced; it just means that you don't know how to make the best of your situation.  Experienced players take advantage of (or avoid) these mismatches, which is why they do much better.  Any weapon looks overpowered in the hands of an expert.  Any weapon looks weak in the hands of a novice.  You might be surprised at how often a new player will miss with the m79.  If he hits you one out of five times, the instakill will still be annoying.  But that doesn't mean the weapon is overpowered.

Yes, I did just refer to myself as "a very wise man". Anyway, I hope you see where I'm coming from.  You assume that you can't dodge these weapons only because you are not fully aware of the situation.  But (and I'm not trying to be a jerk here) could you actually try to beat the m79 and barret before complaining that they make the game not fun for you? I always have fun when m79 and barret users accuse me of hacking, simply because they can't kill me.  This is a result of a lot of experience in dealing with these weapons.  And yes, the skilled players will still kill me; isn't that true with any weapon though?  And yes, there are situations where death by m79 is annoying, but isn't it equally annoying when you are killed just before scoring in CTF?  Should we now suggest that people cannot fire on the flag carrier once he gets close enough to the base?  It's also annoying when you're in an auto battle and your opponent grabs a medkit.  Should we suggest that that not be allowed either?  In any game, there are situations that are annoying.  No one can change that.  The best you can do is get over it, realize that the fun outweighs the annoyances, and keep playing.

[papercut]

@LAW Gamer - I really do appreciate you being cool about this. I was really expecting a lot of the people here to be mature about this.

Actually, you can, and that's why so many people are disagreeing with you.

I'm just going to say now, that ya can't. When your trying to avoid getting killed, you focus on the projectiles (except with chainsaw, as the enemy becomes the projectile) and not the actual person and where his gun is pointing.

The m79 has a fairly short range, and if you pay attention, you'll eventually learn where that is.

Agreed. but in fierce CTF battles, you don't have time to stay away, you gotta get the flag!

M79 kills made out of the effective range are generally luck

Exactly, 40-60 chance. Even though it's a short probability, it still remains annoying when it happens. As well as the m79 isn't as "unfair" as it has the potential to be, it still manages to keep a bit of it.

Since the m79 user is firing at where you are, he's tracking your movements and firing at where you're going to be.  The sudden change in direction will make him miss nine times out of ten.

Absolutely. But soldat already makes it hard to make sudden changes in direction unless your using air cheat =P But if you still manage to get hit, even after using the same strategy, it makes it frustrating. When you dodge around and stuff, you feel like you'll be okay and you can keep going. But when you get killed in that trance, it becomes troublesome in the mind. Thats what makes it frustrating.

The barret is a little tricker to deal with, but it still can be done.

The barret has an even shorter probability of being killed with because its so vulnerable to almost everything. But trying the methods you said like dodging and stuff, there's no actual way to rate whether its working or not, you just have to wait until the bullet is fired. Then your either dead or untouched. If your dead, you have no idea what you could have done to prevent. Not knowing how it could have been escaped is how it gains its quality of being aggrevating and thus, looked at as "unfair".

But (and I'm not trying to be a jerk here) could you actually try to beat the m79 and barret before complaining that they make the game not fun for you?

Absolutely. I honestly don't have too much of a big peeve over barreters and m79ers. But the lack of understanding what could have been done is still annoying to me. This thread wasnt dedicated to me only. Its for all those frustrated with barreters and m79ers and claim they are "unfair".

You put up some good points. Had me thinkin a little bit. But I still don't see a harm in convincing people that they shouldn't use m79s and barrets ALL THE TIME.

[ArmedManiac]

Ok
 (I can't prove it being that I do not know a way to record every weapon a person kills with.)

U13.com, search names of people, if they are registered, you can see the kills of them. And dude, I was calm about 5 pages back, but we have been saying the same thing over and over, but now they are good points? It is annoying to be killed by a one hit guy, but you respawn and try again, eventually your gonna get that flag if those are the only guns they use. People shouldn'y only use one gun, it takes away their own fun. There is nothing like going from a barret to mp5 and pwning barrets becuase you know exactly how they work
EDIT- You will notice m79 and barret are the most used guns, but check top 10 people's stats, most of them on most of the server types(tm, dm, inf, ctf) use other weapons

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

Actually, you can, and that's why so many people are disagreeing with you.

I'm just going to say now, that ya can't. When your trying to avoid getting killed, you focus on the projectiles (except with chainsaw, as the enemy becomes the projectile) and not the actual person and where his gun is pointing.

Well, actions speak louder than words...How about if you and me scrimmage sometime, just one on one?  You say that you're pretty decent with the m79, so I can show you some ways that I counter it.

The m79 has a fairly short range, and if you pay attention, you'll eventually learn where that is.

Agreed. but in fierce CTF battles, you don't have time to stay away, you gotta get the flag!

Think of it this way.  You stay away, and kill the m79 user.  Now you've eliminated a threat to your flag and you're only slightly delayed.  The alternative is getting killed, having to respawn even further away from the enemy flag, and having the m79 user still on the loose.

Since the m79 user is firing at where you are, he's tracking your movements and firing at where you're going to be.  The sudden change in direction will make him miss nine times out of ten.

Absolutely. But soldat already makes it hard to make sudden changes in direction unless your using air cheat =P But if you still manage to get hit, even after using the same strategy, it makes it frustrating. When you dodge around and stuff, you feel like you'll be okay and you can keep going. But when you get killed in that trance, it becomes troublesome in the mind. Thats what makes it frustrating.

Again, I can show you several ways to change your direction without hacking.  Just PM me or hit me up on AIM sometime (gamer83p).

[Zamorak]

Please, stop speaking for other players, the "community" or anyone else that is not you, as doing otherwise is purely speculative conjecture.

[Untitled]

Okay.
Firstly I am absolutely sick of people saying "well, if you don't like this then why are you playing this game in the first place." Just because someone does not agree with how powerful a weapon is does not mean they should stop playing altogether.
Now, onto my opinion. I don't mind M79 at all, it's dodgeable and the speed of the bullet makes it harder to hit at a long range. The one thing you have to avoid is point-blank range VS a M79 user, and that's that (although sometimes I find myself running into M79 bullets because I'm stupid !)

Also, because the majority of people agree that the Barret is balanced, it probably is so.
I am not speaking for the community or anything here, just for myself; I don't like dying to a Barreteer and this is solely because of me, the way my brain works, and nothing else. I'm not trying to say people who use Barret are "cheap" or "lame", but when I die all the time to it, I just get angry. You want a reason for this? Because Barret, in the right hands, can have no weakness; at close range the Barret is just as powerful (if not more powerful) at long range. Trust me, I'm not just saying this because I've had a few 'bad games', every time I am getting battered by a Barret, I feel as if I have to retaliate in some way yet I can't. Sure you're going to say 'bink!' But here's news to you, I've tried and tried over and over again, and (especially when I am getting spawnkilled) I can never usually bink the Barret in time, unless I spray (which I hate doing because there is a general stereotype that all auto users spray but if I spray I feel like such a cunt). The best way I have found to retaliate is to use Minimi, it sure is an imbalanced weapon (imo), but it's the only way I can let out my stress of dying to a extremely fast projectile in one hit.

My other feeling is that the Barret does not fit in such a fast game at its current state. Sure, in a game like Counter Strike a sniper rifle is great, but that is a much slower-paced game (even with up to 40 people in a server or so). But Barret is like a standard rifle which can be used perfectly, even if the user is traveling at top speed. I thought that MoveAcc should stop this, but it only is effective if the user is pressing a key. If the user drops all keys and then shoots the Barret (a very common tactic amongst Barreteers) then the Barret shoots as if it was standing still. When I asked a beta tester about this, apparently MoveAcc is supposed to behave in this way, but I don't believe it's useful at all in its current state. If MoveAcc was changed so that it was based on the player's movement speed, to my point of view it would tone down the Barret's effectiveness at close ranges. I am pretty sure here no one will agree with me, but this is solely my opinion. Personally I don't like Barret too much, but I can acknowledge that other people don't want to change it one bit by this thread (I always have odd opinions anyway, did I mention that ash makes me want to bash my head on the keyboard an infinite amount of times? ).

kbai.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

every time I am getting battered by a Barret, I feel as if I have to retaliate in some way yet I can't.

The HK MP5 does wonders against barret users.  You should try it out.

[Death MachineX350]

Know thy enemy like thy self my friends. Practice with the weapons you keep getting killed by and you'll learn eventually.